Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

[coldbeerchief]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

Torque didn't cause that failure. Looks like the material was too brittle. Improper heat treatment?

 

[ToddM]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

It's a very odd looking failure, to me it looks like the texture (crystalline) when you break brittle steel like a tap, carbide bit etc. there's no way an action should be that brittle. It's also odd that the texture is so consistent over the whole break. If wasn't too brittle and it was twisted off under slow stress like an action wrench would apply it shouldn't look that way.

 

[Badshot308]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

What happened to the cartridge case? Did it separate or remain intact?

 

[LRCampos]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

.

Is it my eyes or the crack of the action began just on the second hole where the front scope base sits?

 

[layinclose2hell]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

It looks like the front screw was left behind in the front portion of the barrel, and the rear screw is still in the base. Split between the two screws, but right over top of the action screw in the aluminum block of the AICS. If I'm not mistaken, for the action to split clean like that, there would have to be dramatic rear movement and demolition of the aluminum bedding block. However it looks bedded and if there was extreme amount of stress in the bedding, and the receiver is bent, I suppose it could happen. Smells funny from here though.....I would expect to see more catastrophic failure on the receiver and chipped edges if the block was holding everything in place as it was designed.

 

[mclevela]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .sk.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice comments))))

Gentlemen, I can repeat.) The owner of a rifle isn't engaged handloading.
In this rifle were used only lapua factory cartridges. Incident has occurred at competitions.
In case of need it is possible to make rifle in examination.
</div></div>

We know you're lying.
You are not from Russia
You broke the action with torque, either trying to remove the barrel or giving out pole dancing lessons.

Go ahead and admit your fault and stop trying to drag HS Precision down. </div></div>

KYS338 are you a metallurgist?
Do you realize how much torque it would take to shear that action or cause a break? If it was from torque it would not look like that.

I try to stay out of crap like this but you are out you azz on this one.
Out of curiosity what do you base your opinion on?

 

[.sk.]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Badshot308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What happened to the cartridge case? Did it separate or remain intact? </div></div>


Neck of the cartridge case became the cylinder like body.

 

[excess]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

Any chance the rifle was REALLY cold before this happened?

 

[mcfred]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a very odd looking failure, to me it looks like the texture (crystalline) when you break brittle steel like a tap, carbide bit etc. there's no way an action should be that brittle. It's also odd that the texture is so consistent over the whole break. If wasn't too brittle and it was twisted off under slow stress like an action wrench would apply it shouldn't look that way. </div></div>

I agree.

I see no evidence of "over torquing" an action screw, or over torquing a scope mount screw. If there was, the fracture would radiate from a threaded hole. I don't see that.

What I do see is a fracture in an action that results from improper heat treatment. Steel, as it gets harder, becomes brittle. Actions, bolts, barrels and whatnot are not supposed to be hardened to the point that they become brittle as they are all hammered repeatedly by dynamic stresses. If the action has an improper heat treatment it will be poorly equipped to handle the loads put upon it when subjected to "barrel whip" and approx. 8 tons of load on the bolt face at SAAMI pressure spec.

At SAAMI pressures the brass casing will do what it was designed to do and will distort to seal the throat and contain the gasses. As such you may not see extruded brass in the bolt face/firing pin hole/extractor and powder residue will not show anywhere other than the chamber. In the third picture there is no evidence of typical over-pressure where all the crevasses would be filled with brass.

HS Precision is a manufacturer and they are just as susceptable to occasional oversights in quality as any other company making a product for consumers. The difference in what makes a good company and a great company is how they handle the occasional flaw that might escape their attention. At the least I think HS Precision should have the barrel/action returned to them and they should have it sent out for testing. If the action was improperly heat treated they should honor a warranty and replace the action.

As for the potential for a person in Russia to have "illegal" reloading products, capable of writing and reading english, and having products that originated in the USA, I should hope that no one here is so naïve that they think that isn't possible. It's a global economy with products from all nations being shipped everywhere in the world. Additionally, hundreds of thousands of people everywhere commit petty crimes every day. .sk. might have reloading dies and some catalogs, but that is not sufficient to reload ammunition by themselves. A press, appropriate dies, a bottle of powder, projectiles, primers and brass and I'd make my own assumptions that he did reload the rounds.

Some of you people seem to be fanboys and don't like your favourite arms manufacturer to have a single failed product. Face it, shit happens and often it's beyond anyone's control. HS Prec. needs to do perfrom a postmortem and resolve any potential issues in their existing product line to keep people from getting hurt.

 

[frankythefly]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

I brought these pictures to an old friend of mine and he seems to believe it could be a combination of things at work here, but not an over pressure round(at least by itself). He showed me a half a dozen receivers with barrels that had been blown up from over pressure rounds, not one looked like this. So then I asked him about over torquing it, he laughed and rolled his eyes as if that was the dumbest question in the world. He said it could be a combination of metal construction, the rapid heating of it in extremely cold weather, and perhaps rounds that are close to the peak pressure. He wanted to know if HS uses more than one type of steel in the receivers and how cold the rifle before the firing started and how fast was he firing before it blow up.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

Great to see some knowledgable posts on this thread now.

 

[.sk.]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

Photos on the first page were really made in the room of a gunsmith.
If necessary, we can prove it.
We are not talking about the explosion of a rifle because of the overpressure.
In this rifle has never been overpressure that can be seen on the photos of boltface and some other photos.
We are talking about damage to the rifle because of a defect of the metal.

 

[.sk.]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

Our competitions. [img:left]http://

[/img] [img:left]http://

[/img] [img:left]http://

[/img] [img:left]http://

[/img]

 

[.sk.]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

Photos from the place of events. [img:left]http://

[/img] [img:left]http://

[/img] [img:left]http://

[/img] [img:left]http://

[/im [img:left]http://

[/img] [img:left]http://

[/img] g]

 

[.sk.]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

Yesterdays photos. [img:center]http://

[/img] [img:center]http://

[/img] [img:center]http://

[/img] [img:center]http://

[/img] [img:center]http://

[/img] [img:center]http://

[/img]

 

[excess]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

.sk. any insight into wether this occurred in cold conditions?

 

[.sk.]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

-10 C
It was not extremely cold.

 

[layinclose2hell]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

I do not understand the fracture with the current story. When it happened, did it break the front screw in the scope rail? Why is the rail not seriously deformed? How far back in the stock did the rear of the action move? How much play do you have in the action screw holes in the AICS stock? Was the stock modified, or the mounting block? I have been working with metal for nearly 20 years and have never seen a fracture this clean due to heating, cold or overpressure, and I have welded ALOT of fractures. There would have to be substantial rearward movement with NO resistance to achieve such a clean break with no shrapnel or evident rupture. If the bedding block did its job in supporting the action, ALL escape of energy should be up and out. Even extreme cold when exposed to the heat of a welder will not cleanly fracture like that, it explodes and leaves shrapnel and torn up edges that are normally ground out and beveled before repairing with a weld. Castings are quite different; however they tend to explode more dramatically.
I would be interested in hearing about the bedding job and the torque on the action screws. Introducing an extreme amount of stress on the action could be the cause that proved the production faults (if there was one). I also think that an appropriate history of the rifle, as in round count, typical situations utilized in, ammunition documentation, logbook entries and cleaning process are also needed to accurately diagnose the fracture, because it is definitely NOT a rupture.
I am interested in seeing HS Precision’s findings, as if there was a production problem, they will resolve it.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

boltripper is impressed .....

boltripper breaks steel, but its with moly

boltripper thinks somebody had way too much redbull.

 

[oldgrayone]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

14 degrees is cold.

 

[layinclose2hell]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

In the pictures you just posted, WHY is the rear action screw hole filled with steel epoxy? Wasn't it screwed and torqued correctly to the stock? Was the front action screw the ONLY item holding the action in the stock? NO REARWARD resistance....Clean Break.
Correct me if I am wrong guys...

 

[yogibear187]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

all i can say is lol , old mate just shut up a lot of people up that was not believing a word he was saying.

but on subject it is a real worry in the cold or not , their not a cheap rifle and that sort of failure could have coursed injury or even death

 

[.sk.]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

After a shot a piece of the bolt moved back exactly on one centimeter.
Nobody understood anything.
Bolts were cut.
The owner of the rifle holding boltknob took the piece of receiver, together with the scope.


It is not epoxy in the rear action screw, it is broken bolt.

 

[layinclose2hell]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

What is a SANTIMETER? If the action moved backwards one centimeter, the sheared bolt would have done damage to the pillar in the stock, and there is no damage evident there. Also, the front screw hole for the scope base is cleanly removed with no damage to the threads, if the screw was sheared off, it would be in the hole and the base wouldhave been disformed a little.

Makes no sense to me, it violates all laws of physics pertaining to metal and reaction. Too many inconsistancies as far as I am concerned IMHO.
Good luck.

 

[layinclose2hell]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

Ahh, you fixed your spelling error.....

 

[.sk.]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: layinclose2hell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is a SANTIMETER?
</div></div>

It is my bad English))

Forward action bolt isn't broken.
It is broken rear action bolt and forward scope rail bolt.
All in photos.

 

[Badshot308]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

Is the rifle going back to HS Precision for testing, or are you going to have it tested in Russia? If there's a defect in the steel or the heat treatment of the steel, HS Precision needs to be certain one way or the other. Do you have any pictures of the remains of the cartrdge case?

 

[.sk.]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

We wait for decision H-S Precision, they answered nothing till now.

These are all photos which I have today.
Shoulders of cartridge case, was inflated. The neck became 1.5mm long.

We have other rifles H-S Precision in 338LM, but we have preserved them to solution of a problem.
In our country, H-S Precision rifle HTR2000 in 338LM, is cost about 7500 USD, and nobody
wants then to catch a piece of action with own face.

 

[kombar]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: layinclose2hell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Makes no sense to me, it violates all laws of physics pertaining to metal and reaction.</div></div>

It seems that it violated none of the laws of physics, since it happened. It would be much more likely that you don't know as much as you think you know.

 

[Badshot308]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

You might want to look at this thread http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2092179#Post2092179 There are rifle builders who question the strength of the Remington 700 to safetly handle the 338 Lapua magnum. While the HS Precision action is not identical to the Reminton 700, it is the same approximate size. HS Precision has been building 338 Lapua's for several years, Remington has a factory 338 Lapua out for about three years, and many Remington 700 actions have been converted to 338 Lapua. Despite the safety concerns, there haven't been many reports of catastophic failure's of the action such as the one your rifle experianced. Your rifle is the first one I've seen reported on this forum to have failed in that manner. Being that I own a Remington 700 MLR in 338 Lapua, I'm very interested in finding out what caused your action to fail.

 

[.sk.]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Badshot308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You might want to look at this thread http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2092179#Post2092179 There are rifle builders who question the strength of the Remington 700 to safetly handle the 338 Lapua magnum. While the HS Precision action is not identical to the Reminton 700, it is the same approximate size. HS Precision has been building 338 Lapua's for several years, Remington has a factory 338 Lapua out for about three years, and many Remington 700 actions have been converted to 338 Lapua. Despite the safety concerns, there haven't been many reports of catastophic failure's of the action such as the one your rifle experianced. Your rifle is the first one I've seen reported on this forum to have failed in that manner. Being that I own a Remington 700 MLR in 338 Lapua, I'm very interested in finding out what caused your action to fail. </div></div>


Thanks. I will read with interest.

We have Rem700 MLR 338, a normal rifle, haven't problems.

 

[Jerkface11]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

If this rifle did fail because 338L is too much cartridge for it I'm impressed that it held together so well. I'm going to bet there was some sort of flaw in the metal though. A break from too much pressure should be along the long axis.

 

[Badshot308]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

I'm guessing a defect in the metal or heat treatment as well. These rifles do not have a reputation of failing like this.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

How about someone on here (Moderator?)forward this thread and replies to HS and request a comment?

 

[jeo556]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

I'm very interested in what the final diagnosis here is. The link to stiller's post is very interesting. His analysis seems thorough in regard to analyzing the stresses on the lugs but I'd love to see finite analysis used to analyze the stresses on the whole of the action.

It seems like this is the only way that the action could truely be analyzed to deterine if it is suitable for the pressures and related stresses.

This company has done some significnat analysis on something as simple as stress introduced on a scope tube by the rings so I'm guessing that actions being analyzed the same way isn't out of the question.

 

[layinclose2hell]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kombar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: layinclose2hell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Makes no sense to me, it violates all laws of physics pertaining to metal and reaction.</div></div>

It seems that it violated none of the laws of physics, since it happened. It would be much more likely that you don't know as much as you think you know. </div></div>

Actually it does, and I deal with high pressure welding and steel reaction at higher pressures than this rifle is capable of producing on a daily basis for my career, along with having my work x-rayed for structural integrity. I am making a point that I believe there is something more at work here. I said prior that I am very interested in the results from HS Precision. The damage to the breech is inconsistent with the stock, the scope base, and the fracture is quite unusual. What I am stating is that it does not look like a rupture as there is no detonation of the steel. There is a clean break, which requires extensive rearward movement as to not fracture or detonate the edges as a 338 generates 60,916 psi in the chamber. Any detonation would be catastrophic to the action if there was no directional shift to the rear. The resistance from the scope rail screw, the action screws, and the bedding block of the AICS should be more than capable of resisting the backwards force for even a millisecond, which would divert energy up and out, resulting in a compromised action and breech. I am glad no one was injured in the incident, and I look forward to seeing the results from the manufacturer testing. A metal flaw under pressure can do weird things, I am not arguing that fact, however this case would be the first time I have ever seen a compromise that moved backwards 1 full centimeter thru all of the resistance and have a beautifully clean fracture. I believe that there was probably undue stress involved, which caused the flaw to show itself due to another inconsistency.

 

[MAGUA]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

The fourth pic up from bottom appears to have teeth marks on what is left of the reciever. looks like it has been spun together with a monkey wrench

.

 

[northern50]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

There's no way that happened due to torque from putting a barrel on or bolting it to a stock. Looks like the material was too brittle and cracked. I would have to say it's faulty material, and or a poor heat treat.

 

[okiefired]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: layinclose2hell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> however this case would be the first time I have ever seen a compromise that moved backwards 1 full centimeter thru all of the resistance and have a beautifully clean fracture. </div></div>

This statement makes me wonder if you have any idea what you are talking about. I have seen hundreds of sheared bolts that did absolutely NO damage to the hole or the threads and I literally removed what was left of the bolts with my fingers. If the reciever itself was flawed, the only thing that was a "beutifully cleaned fracture" was a few small hard bolts of which you thought earlier was a filled in hole. With the forces applied in the chamber of a .338, those bolts (ie: reciever to stock and scope base) would be absolutely nothing to shear in a very clean break if the reciever itself was comprimised.

okie

 

[High Binder]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ECH</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Im not a metallurgust</span> but it looks like the grain if the metal around the edges of the broken action in the third pic are all oriented as if it suffered a significant torque force. </div></div>

I can't believe I'm the only person with actual metallurgy classes under my belt to run across this thread. It's referred to as 'shear' and you can clearly see from the pictures that this action didn't shear off, i.e. no "torque" at play here. My guess from the pics would be bad stock (for example:'bad castings/bar' stock not rifle 'stock'). Have to also keep in mind that a small crack that perhaps developed around a hole, poor heat treatment, a 'ding' and/or an inconsistent coupling force could have quickly (milli-seconds) traveled causing this failure. Without getting hands on it, there's just no way to know which makes all of our posts akin to speculation. Hope that was layman enough.

P.S. I see a lot of posts referring to the cold making the metal more brittle which is true but it's not the real issue. The cold could have sped up the failure but the weakness would have already existed and it would have just been a matter of time before it let go. In short the cold isn't an issue and doesn't really become a factor until this type of steal is subjected to MUCH colder temps, temps really only available in labs/industrial shops etc...

 

[okiefired]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

Agreed.

 

[Driftwood]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about someone on here (Moderator?)forward this thread and replies to HS and request a comment? </div></div>

HS is aware of the thread and I know they are working on the issue. It is highly unlikely they would comment on anything until they have actually had a chance to examine the receiver, as anything else would be pure speculation as to what happened, which seems to be running rampant. I doubt they will be paying consulting fees to anyone on this thread. Since I have no metallurgical background, my crystal ball is clear on this one.

I know HS is a good company. I know that they are working to resolve the issue and are very concerned about it. If they are at fault they will make it right. They will probably make it right even if they are not, as I mentioned they are a very good company to deal with. It's going to take some time though. I don't see this one being resolved in just a week or two.

 

[Lofty]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

I'm no metallurgist, but I have been involved with drag racing and top speed land racing at world championship levels for years.

Having broken and destroyed thousands of pounds of metal in every concievable manner possible I have gotten used to seeing damage to metal from overstress, torque, pressure and extreme heat.

The line of the break and the look of the grain appears to suggest the metal was flawed.

 

[ORD]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Driftwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HS is aware of the thread and I know they are working on the issue. It is highly unlikely they would comment on anything until they have actually had a chance to examine the receiver, as anything else would be pure speculation as to what happened, which seems to be running rampant. I doubt they will be paying consulting fees to anyone on this thread. Since I have no metallurgical background, my crystal ball is clear on this one.

I know HS is a good company. I know that they are working to resolve the issue and are very concerned about it. If they are at fault they will make it right. They will probably make it right even if they are not, as I mentioned they are a very good company to deal with. It's going to take some time though. I don't see this one being resolved in just a week or two.
</div></div>

Big +1 on this comment. HS is a good company and they'll deal with the problem as they deem appropriate, which I am sure will include, but not be limited to, a thorough inspection of the rifle once they have it (and the pieces) in hand. It would be completely irresponsible (in addition to highly stupid) for HS to speculate, offer "educated" guesses, etc. at this point in time without having first had the opportunity to inspect and evaluate the problems first hand.

All of the speculation, Monday-morning QBing, wild idea slinging going on here is fine for Internet/pseudo-academic purposes, but its meaningless in terms of the actual problems with the rifle.

With that said...my vote goes back to a combination of a nasty fungus that got into the receiver steel at the molecular level and that, combined with an off-label and ill-advised use of Lamisil, led to a catastrophic failure!!

(Go ahead and laugh if you will...but at this point...it could be anything or a combination of different things that played into this failure...okay probably not foot fungus, but still...)!!

 

[Diablo]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

Not impressed thus far, so some questions:

What would happen with excessive headspace?

What would happen if Lapua did screw up and made a round with the wrong powder (much higher pressure)?

What would happen if Ivan actually stressed the receiver by putting it in a bind? Obviously it ain't in the original stock anymore, so someones been screwing around with it.

Incidentally, the potential for brittle fracture increases as the temperature decreases, so yes there is a greater potential for failure at +20F than at +60F, and the potential for a failure increases as the temperature drops.

The fracture toughness of the material depends on its' original alloying, and heat treatment. This receiver wasn't the only one made from this lot of stock material, and wouldn't have been the only one heat-treated in the batch (there would have been several in the same run).

So it is very likely that the manufacturer will be interested in determining if it was really a "material problem" or if it was something done by the folks that decided to rework it.

 

[Ol' RD]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

The cold weather has no bearing on this. The stock it's in really has no bearing either. Let HS Precision deal with the issue that's what customer service is for. I'll wait to see what they report back, if anything.

 

[Desert-Rat]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

Wow, controversy 101!

Hs makes great stuff, way too many variables in this thread to make any assumption that it is an hs issue. I didn't know they sold barreled actions etc.


This is what you get when people think they are builders because they have a pipe wrench and 100mph tape...


Kinda like the idiot who brought his brand new sig 220 into the shop BLOWN UP COMPLETELY and wanted to sue Sig because his custom hand loads from the gun show screwed up his pistol?

It that was a pressure prob that thing would be in pieces..... That's a failure due to stress across that strap.

I think diablos in track with the torque issues???

All the FNG's think you have to tighten a rifle up like it's a 6.8ltr diesel pusher

 

[Diablo]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

Robot Doc and Desert-Rat,

I still haven't decided if this thing is even real, or just a made-up mess by someone with way too much time on their hands.

 

[layinclose2hell]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: layinclose2hell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> however this case would be the first time I have ever seen a compromise that moved backwards 1 full centimeter thru all of the resistance and have a beautifully clean fracture. </div></div>

This statement makes me wonder if you have any idea what you are talking about. I have seen hundreds of sheared bolts that did absolutely NO damage to the hole or the threads and I literally removed what was left of the bolts with my fingers. If the reciever itself was flawed, the only thing that was a "beutifully cleaned fracture" was a few small hard bolts of which you thought earlier was a filled in hole. With the forces applied in the chamber of a .338, those bolts (ie: reciever to stock and scope base) would be absolutely nothing to shear in a very clean break if the reciever itself was comprimised.

okie </div></div>

Sheared bolts are a different animal altogether. Highbinder makes a very valid point. I do not believe it is shear at work, and there may definitely be a metal failure due to inconsistencies or flaws. I am not debating these facts. What I am saying is that the supplemental areas offered resistance, and if there was resistance for even a millisecond, the reactive force will attempt to dissipate in another direction before moving backwards, thus exposing a metallurgic flaw. The pressures involved could have compounded over time, and caused this unique reaction, that is true. Once again, I am looking forward to seeing the results of HS Precisions tests on the metal, because it will eliminate all variables that we are debating with scientific fact. I believe it is unrealistic to not take into account all of the other variables at work here, because I am sure that HS Precision will scrutinize the evidence, and determine if other receivers are also affected, or if it was a compound of issues that caused the failures. Let’s wait to hear.

And for the record, here is the reactive information for hardware utilized for attaching:


ASTM, SAE AND ISO GRADE MARKINGS AND MECHANICAL PROPERTIES FOR STEEL FASTENERS
Identification
Grade Mark Specification Fastener
Description Material Nominal Size
Range (in.) Mechanical Properties
Proof Load
(psi) Yield Strength
Min (psi) Tensile Strength
Min (psi)

No
Grade
Mark SAE J429
Grade 1 Bolts,
Screws,
Studs Low or Medium Carbon Steel 1/4 thru 1-1/2 33,000 36,000 60,000
ASTM A307
Grades A&B Low Carbon Steel 1/4 thru 4 -- --
SAE J429
Grade 2 Low or Medium Carbon Steel 1/4 thru 3/4 Over 3/4 to 1-1/2 55,000
33,000 57,000
36,000 74,000
60,000

No
Grade
Mark SAE J429
Grade 4 Studs Medium Carbon Cold Drawn Steel 1/4 thru 1-1/2 -- 100,000 115,000

B5 ASTM A193
Grade B5 AISI 501 1/4 Thru 4 -- 80,000 100,000

B6 ASTM A193
Grade B6 AISI 410 85,000 110,000

B7 ASTM A193
Grade B7 AISI 4140, 4142, OR 4105 1/4 thru 2-1/2
Over 2-1/2 thru 4
Over 4 thru 7 --
--
-- 105,000
95,000
75,000 125,000
115,000
100,000

B16 ASTM A193
Grade B16 CrMoVa Alloy Steel 105,000
95,000
85,000 125,000
115,000
100,000

B8 ASTM A193
Grade B8 AISI 304 1/4 and larger -- 30,000 75,000

B8C ASTM A193
Grade B8C AISI 347

B8M ASTM A193
Grade B8M AISI 316

B8T ASTM A193
Grade B8T Bolts,
Screws,
Studs for High-Temperature Service AISI 321 1/4 and larger -- 30,000 75,000

B8 ASTM A193
Grade B8 AISI 304
Strain Hardened 1/4 thr 3/4
Over 3/4 thru 1
Over 1 thru 1-1/4
Over 1-1/4 thru 1-1/2 --
--
--
-- 100,000
80,000
65,000
50,000 125,000
115,000
105,000
100,000

B8C ASTM A193
Grade B8C AISI 347
Strain Hardened

B8M ASTM A193
Grade B8M AISI 316
Strain Hardened 95,000
80,000
65,000
50,000 110,000
100,000
95,000
90,000

B8T ASTM A193
Grade B8T AISI 321
Strain Hardened 100,000
80,000
65,000
50,000 125,000
115,000
105,000
100,000

L7 ASTM A320
Grade L7 Bolts,
Screws,
Studs for Low-Temperature Service AISI 4140,
4142 or 4145 1/4 thru 2-1/2 -- 105,000 125,000

L7A ASTM A320
Grade L7A AISI 4037

L7B ASTM A320
Grade L7B AISI 4137

L7C ASTM A320
Grade LC7 AISI 8740

L43 ASTM A320
Grade L43 AISI 4340 1/4 thru 4 -- 105,000 125,000

B8 ASTM A320
Grade B8 Bolts,
Screws,
Studs for Low-Temperature Service AISI 304 1/4 and larger -- 30,000 75,000

B8C ASTM A320
Grade B8C AISI 347

B8T ASTM A320
Grade B8T AISI 321

B8F ASTM A320
Grade B8F AISI 303
or 303Se

B8M ASTM A320
Grade B8M AISI 316

B8 ASTM A320
Grade B8 AISI 304 1/4 thru 3/4
Over 3/4 thru 1
Over 1 thru 1-1/4
Over 1-1/4 thru 1-1/2 --
--
--
-- 100,000
80,000
65,00
50,00 100,000
80,000
65,00
50,00

B8C ASTM A320
Grade B8C AISI 347

B8F ASTM A320
Grade B8F AISI 303
or 303Se

B8M ASTM A320
Grade B8M AISI 316

B8T ASTM A320
Grade B8T AISI 321
SAE J429
Grade 5 Bolts,
Screws,
Studs Medium Carbon Steel, Quenched and Tempered 1/4 thru 1
Over 1 to 1-1/2 85,000
74,000 92,000
81,000 120,000
105,000
ASTM A449 1/4 thru 1
Over 1 to 1-1/2
Over 1-1/2 thru 3 85,000
74,000
55,000 92,000
81,000
58,000 120,000
105,000
90,000
SAE J429
Grade 5.1 Sems Low or Medium Carbon Steel, Quenched and Tempered No. 6
thru 3/8 85,000 -- 120,000
SAE J429
Grade 5.2 Bolts,
Screws,
Studs Low Carbon Martensitic Steel, Quenched and Tempered 1/4 thru 1 85,000 92,000 120,000

A325 ASTM A325
Type 1 High Strength
Structural Bolts Medium Carbon Steel, Quenched and Tempered 1/2 thru 1
1-1/8 thru 1-1/2 85,000
74,000 92,000
81,000 120,000
105,000

A325 ASTM A325
Type 2 Low Carbon Martensitic Steel, Quenched and Tempered 1/2 thru 1 85,000 92,000 120,000

A325 ASTM A325
Type 3 Atmospheric Corrosion Resisting Steel, Quenched and Tempered 1/2 thru 1
1-1/8 thru 1-1/2 85,000
74,000 92,000
81,000 120,000
105,000

BB ASTM A354
Grade BB Bolts,
Studs Alloy Steel, Quenched and Tempered 1/4 thru 2-1/2
2-3/4 thru 4 80,000
75,000 83,000
78,000 105,000
100,000

BC ASTM A354
Grade BC 105,000
95,000 109,000
99,000 125,000
115,000
SAE J429
Grade 7 Bolts,
Screws, Medium Carbon Alloy Steel, Quenched and Tempered 4 1/4 thru 1-1/2 105,000 115,000 133,000
SAE J429
Grade 8 Bolts,
Screws,
Studs Medium Carbon Alloy Steel, Quenched and Tempered 1/4 thru 1-1/2 120,000 130,000 150,000
ASTM A354
Grade BD Alloy Steel, Quenched and Tempered 4

No Grade
Mark SAE J429
Grade 8.1 Studs Medium Carbon Alloy or SAE 1041 Modified Elevated Temperature Drawn Steel 1/4 thru 1-1/2 120,000 130,000 150,000

A490 ASTM A490 High Strength Structural Bolts Alloy Steel, Quenched and Tempered 1/2 thru 1-1/2 120,000 130,000 150,000 min
170,000 max

No Grade
Mark ISO R898
Class 4.6 Bolts,
Screws,
Studs Medium Carbon Steel, Quenched and Tempered All Sizes
thru 1-1/2 33,000 36,000 60,000

No Grade
Mark ISO R898
Class 5.8 55,000 57,000 74,000
8.8

or

88 ISO R898
Class 8.8 Alloy Steel, Quenched and Tempered 85,000 92,000 120,000
10.9

or

109 ISO R898
Class 10.9 120,000 130,000 150,000



FASTENER IDENTIFICATION MARKING
Grade
Identification
Marking Specification Material Nominal Size
In. Proof
Load
Stress
ksi Hardness
Rockwell See
Note
Min Max

No Mark ASTM A563 - Grade 0 Carbon Steel 1/4 thru 1-1/2 69 B55 C32 3,4
ASTM A563 - Grade A Carbon Steel 1/4 thru 1-1/2 90 B68 C32 3,4
ASTM A563 - Grade B Carbon Steel 1/4 thru 1 120 B69 C32 3,4
over 1 thru 1-1/2 105
ASTM A563 - Grade C Carbon Steel
May be Quenched
and Tampered 1/4 thru 4 144 B78 C38 5
ASTM A563 - Grade C3 Atmospheric
Corrosion
Resistant Steel
May be Quenched
and Tampered 1/4 thru 4 144 B78 C38 5,9
ASTM A563 - Grade D Carbon Steel
May be Quenched
and Tampered 1/4 thru 4 150 B84 C38 6
ASTM A563 - Grade DH Carbon Steel
Quenched
and Tampered 1/4 thru 4 175 C24 C38 6
ASTM A563 - Grade DH3 Atmospheric
Corrosion
Resistant Steel,
Quenched
and Tampered 1/4 thru 4 175 C24 C38 5,9
ASTM A194 - Grade 1 Carbon Steel 1/4 thru 4 130 B70 -- 7
ASTM A194 - Grade 2 Medium Carbon
Steel 1/4 thru 4 150 159 352 7,8
ASTM A194 - Grade 2H Medium Carbon
Steel, Quenched
and Tempered 1/4 thru 4 175 C24 C38 7
ASTM A194 - Grade 2HM Medium Carbon
Steel, Quenched
and Tempered 1/4 thru 4 150 159 237 7,8
ASTM A194 - Grade 4 Medium Carbon
Alloy Steel,
Quenched
and Tempered 1/4 thru 4 175 C24 C38 7
ASTM A194 - Grade 7 Medium Carbon
Alloy Steel,
Quenched
and Tempered 1/4 thru 4 175 C24 C38 7
ASTM A194 - Grade 7M Medium Carbon
Alloy Steel,
Quenched
and Tempered 1/4 thru 4 150 159 237 7
See Note 1,2 10

NOTES:

In addition to the indicated grade marking, all grades, except A563 grades O, A and B, must be marked for manufacturer identification.
The markings shown for all grades of A194 nuts are for cold formed and hot forged nuts. When nuts are machined from bar stock the nut must be additionally marked with the letter 'B'.
Nuts are not required to be marked unless specified by the purchaser. When marked, the identification marking shall be the grade letter O, A or B.
Properties shown are those of nonplated or noncoated coarse thread hex nuts.
Properties shown are those of coarse thread heavy hex nuts.
Properties shown are those of coarse thread heavy hex nuts.
Properties shown are those of coarse 8-pitch thread heavy hex nuts.
Hardnesses are Brinell Hardness Numbers.
The nut manufacturer, at his option, may add other markings to indicate the use of atmospheric corrosion resistant steel.
Specifications --
ASTM A563 -- Carbon and Alloy Steel Nuts.
ASTM A194/A194M -- Carbon and Alloy Steel Nuts for Bolts for High Pressure and High Temperature Service.

 

[Ol' RD]

Re: Great problem with the H-S Precision rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Diablo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Robot Doc and Desert-Rat,

I still haven't decided if this thing is even real, or just a made-up mess by someone with way too much time on their hands.

</div></div>

Agreed, that's why I say HS will handle it.