Green Beret officer forced out of service

[ROBIE]

I'm not sure this has made the rounds yet, but I'm putting out here.

There is so much wrong and face palming about this I don't know where to start.

James Gant has since written a book about his ordeal and its on my must buy/read list now.

Watch the video, read the article and tell us your opinion.

Jim Gant: Top Green Beret Officer Forced to Resign Over Affair With WaPo Reporter - ABC News




Robie

 

[kmussack]

Article 133, UCMJ..........?

 

[roggom]

Like something out of Apocalypse Now. The Wife thing was just the vehicle for his removal.

 

[Switchblade]

looks like he went native and said screw it

 

[Sharpsman]

His mistake?

He got caught!

Nothing that the upper 'echelon' hasn't committed to a degree!

For instance.....Petraeus!!

 

[fdkay]

His mistake?

He got caught!

Nothing that the upper 'echelon' hasn't committed to a degree!

For instance.....Petraeus!!

And what happened to Petraeus?

 

[eli polite]

I'm sure they would have let a certain amount of that stuff fly. But he had more than a few infractions. I applaud his efforts and service. He is hero but come on man fallow some of the rules

 

[JaysonF]

What a shame... Cowardly people who will never know what it is like to fight in a war persecute this man. This is what is wrong with America. People who have no idea want to chastise a hero because of stupid shit. The rules of war are more like guidelines anyway. Sometimes you have to do shit at a in the heat of a battle, moments notice that those who have years to dissect in a comfy office chair will try to fuck you for. When will we accept that if you don't like the byproduct of war, don't go to war then. Just sending men and women over there with unreasonable expectations and imposing restrictions on them because it "feels right" is bull shit. Pills? you don't know, he was in a long time, maybe he had knee/back pain. Alcohol? shit gets heavy and sometimes you need a drink. We drank over there, so fucking what. Banging some chick? when you don't know if you are going to live or die, and you have got those deployment goggles on, you just want to live because that may be the end of it.
Some 1st lieutenant straight out of west point wrote him up? Fucking boot ass sent in to fuck this man over (probably at the direction of that 3 star).
You either go to war or you don't. When you are there, the "standards" which some stateside scumbag made need to take the back burner (within reason).
If he felt he had to disobey the order not to leave the compound to protect himself and his men, then so be it. No one was injured. It was a powerful statement that I am sure won over more confidence of those he operated with.
This guy was wronged, BAD. In the Marines we have a saying for this: "He got the green wienie"

 

[ROBIE]

He did break a few rules, but how unconventional should they be for an unconventional warfare expert? His idol was Lawrence of Arabia, so maybe that had no small part in what he was thinking/doing?

He went native, and won the hearts and minds of the villagers.... seems I've heard that "hearts and minds" stuff before.

Maybe I'm too much of a conservative stick in the mud, but the breaking of marriage vows bothers me.

Probably what pissed me off the most was that a cherry Lt fresh from the point, with no experience, wrote up a major and experienced officer. Ya don't think his commanders had some small idea of what he was doing? I'm sure they knew, and were ok with it till someone made a stink about it.

Maybe there is a huge rush to judgment about this, but I still want to read his book. This all might work out better for him now. With his book deal and singings, gun show circuits and videos, he's going to make big bucks if he plays his cards right.


Robie

 

[ROBIE]

I was just thinking about the "Apocalypse Now" & "Lawrence of Arabia" angle.

He already has the book, now he COULD sell the movie rights and make a bigger killing! (pun? maybe?)

"Apocalypse Deja Vie all over again" or "James (Lawrence) of Astan".

This really could be his cash cow to milk!


Robie

 

[usmc02xx]

erased a pointelss rant just now.

to error is human, to forgive is divine... neither is USMC policy.

 

[roggom]

Army core values include words like Honor, Integrity, Courage , Respect.

No one gets to write their own rules. Not the Private Checking ID's at the gate, nor the Commanding General in-theater.

 

[wilecoyote]

"...I never left the battlefield defeated. I never lost a man. Well over 20 awards for valor for the men that I fought alongside. We went after 'em every single day. I brought all my men home. That's it," Gant said..."
perhaps, if he had been loved by some turkish officer,as peter 'o toole-of-arabia, today it would be more appreciated, if not an hero_

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Theyre supposed to be unconventional right? Id have thought the CIA would love having this guy in the future. Look up Operation Jawbreaker, and Gary Berntsen(spelling?). The whole reason they picked Berntsen to take the lead was because he was in pretty close with some Northern Alliance guys.

 

[kraigWY]

Want some interesting reading (similar to this), when I die, someone get a hold of my wife and have her go through my papers (memoirs or what have you) and find the chapter on Cpt JH. He was a SF Captain who spent 8 years in a SF Camp/Village in Laos. He was considered a King buy the villagers who worshipped him.

JH was quietly let go when we pulled out. Rifted if you will, like many combat officers from Vietnam. He made me jumpmaster 5 years before I ever went to Advanced Airborne (JM School).

He was different to say the least.

We can only thank God that we have had, and pray we always will have soldiers like Gant and JH.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Want some interesting reading (similar to this), when I die, someone get a hold of my wife and have her go through my papers (memoirs or what have you) and find the chapter on Cpt JH. He was a SF Captain who spent 8 years in a SF Camp/Village in Laos. He was considered a King buy the villagers who worshipped him.

JH was quietly let go when we pulled out. Rifted if you will, like many combat officers from Vietnam. He made me jumpmaster 5 years before I ever went to Advanced Airborne (JM School).

He was different to say the least.

We can only thank God that we have had, and pray we always will have soldiers like Gant and JH.

How does that saying go?

Something like:
"Out of 100 soldiers, 50 shouldnt even be there, 40 are just targets, and 9 of them are the ones who do most of the fighting, and battles are won or lost with them. But one, one is a true warrior, and if it werent for him the rest would not make it out" - some Roman whose name I cant spell

 

[KYpatriot]

The most dangerous thing of all to incompetent leadership is a competent subordinate. In the end the brass will despise them more than the enemy. The LT was just a tool the upper echelon used to get their way. Like I said in another thread, there is never any shortage of men willing to just follow orders no matter what. My guess was this LT was one if those unthinking men.

 

[EasyGravy]

^^ that lt. Probally meritoriously promoted to capt now.

 

[EddieNFL]

But one, one is a true warrior, and if it werent for him the rest would not make it out" - some Roman whose name I cant spell

Heraclitus?

And, as an officer, the chance of making it past 0-4, 0-5 is almost nil.

 

[c1steve]

The most dangerous thing of all to incompetent leadership is a competent subordinate. In the end the brass will despise them more than the enemy. The LT was just a tool the upper echelon used to get their way. Like I said in another thread, there is never any shortage of men willing to just follow orders no matter what. My guess was this LT was one if those unthinking men.

Now this is true. True in corporations, small businesses, everywhere people work together. It takes a good person and leader at the top to minimalize it. The harder an employee works, or the better an employee overall, the more dingbats above him will work very hard to kick him out.

After reading the article, it appears that Ann shot some incredible footage. A great movie may be coming to a theatre near you soon.

Although James Gant was treated poorly when he was relieved, and he suffered a career ending demotion, in the end it was probably good for him. He was overstressed, was self medicating, this was a strong way to make a career and life change. He and Ann are probably doing great, have time for themselves, and after a book or movie may be amply rewarded.

It sounds like they are going to have an exciting life together. James might even make a good senator or other government representative. He would be effective, would treat people fairly, and be well respected.

 

[HD-Ghost]

Breakin' rules ain't breakin' the law. Loosing your career over rules created by non-combatants orchestrating non-conventional wars that have never been declared = sucks.

Never met a pointer that I respected. They had their own little clique for god's sake. Patton, Eisenhower, and the like were products of early West Point. Graduates from the 70s can bite me. Remember one that was waiting until his 5 yrs was up so he could go work for Michelin designing tire treads (already working on prototypes during co. time). And we were Artillery, in the field 3 time as combat branches.

Hid in the AMU for 2 yrs. I got out after making Cpt. because it was a stacked deck; and PC ruled the day.

 

[Victory]

Lol, if they only knew what goes on in the safe houses, compounds, and closed doors of 99% of ODA's in country, they wouldn't have any ODA's, because they would all be demoted, booted out, or sitting in Leavenworth.

If some of those plywood and stucco walls could talk, lol.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Hell, I remember reading stories of Blackwater having parties where theyd have prostitutes for every man there and plenty of coke and steroids to go around in Iraq. LOL sounds like my type of people, good folk to be sure.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Heraclitus?

And, as an officer, the chance of making it past 0-4, 0-5 is almost nil.

There ya go, thank you sir.

 

[KYpatriot]

Now this is true. True in corporations, small businesses, everywhere people work together. It takes a good person and leader at the top to minimalize it. The harder an employee works, or the better an employee overall, the more dingbats above him will work very hard to kick him out.

After reading the article, it appears that Ann shot some incredible footage. A great movie may be coming to a theatre near you soon.

Although James Gant was treated poorly when he was relieved, and he suffered a career ending demotion, in the end it was probably good for him. He was overstressed, was self medicating, this was a strong way to make a career and life change. He and Ann are probably doing great, have time for themselves, and after a book or movie may be amply rewarded.

It sounds like they are going to have an exciting life together. James might even make a good senator or other government representative. He would be effective, would treat people fairly, and be well respected.

good point, while the war effort may be worse off that LT probably did Gant a big favor for his personal life. Sounds like he was on the way to getting used up. Still, should have been handled a different way.

 

[Sharpsman]

And what happened to Petraeus?

Petraeus scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[pmclaine]

The only thing I can see to have issue with is the presence of the woman.

Did the junior members of the team have the opportunity to have their wives/girlfriends over? Just because your the CO does that give you that privlidge? After a period of time Im sure the sheep are looking good to you and its really getting bothersome listening to "Ohhhh! Ohhh! Ahhh! You will get a tab for this!" coming from the Majors quarters.

Perhaps not an issue in such a professional unit but I think the team that jerks off in the shadows together (well actually in singular privacy) is sharing the hardship and more cohesive. In the worst case any defference shown to her, at the expense of his troops, by him could be a moral killer and a unit destroyer. There in is the great danger yet we introduce that same issue as a social expirement.

My training has been that the real leader endures at least equal, but takes on more, hardship to make life better for the men. Other than being able to enjoy vagina rather than palm though it seems like the Major did the most important thing in keeping the survivability of his guys at 100%.

Beyond that. I think the fact we concern ourselves with Islamic prohibitions on alchohol and other western habits while within US bases overseas is a joke. Its like getting us prepped for Sharia law over here. Screw that, the US didnt ask to be in the Middle East. We were invited on 9/11/01.

His tactics sound interesting. The big army strategy doesnt seem to be working. The USMC CAP platoons in Vietnam were similar and seemed to have some success. Only difference being the platoons did not don conical hats and black pyjamas.

Regards the Lawrence of Arabia similarities lets not forget Lawrence got screwed over, not ony by the Turk, but by his higher command. They had him sell the idea of pan arabism always knowing it was a big lie. I think his superiors hurt him more than the Turk did and he found solace in riding ultra awesome Brough Superiors and taking a pseudonym to hide in the RAF as an enlisted man. Being a succesful author and in the right was not enough for him.

Its a shame our country eats its best and brightest leaving us with hope and desire for change.

 

[Victory]

I can assure you that they are not going without getting laid, unless that is what they want. Sure it's not as regular, but it's there. Also there is plenty of beer and alcohol on the COP's and FOB's. No one is missing out on that unless they choose to not partake.

 

[pmclaine]

I can assure you that they are not going without getting laid, unless that is what they want. Sure it's not as regular, but it's there. Also there is plenty of beer and alcohol on the COP's and FOB's. No one is missing out on that unless they choose to not partake.

Well I have no experience to refute you and considering Petreaus experience I have good reason to take your word at full measure.

Shit perhaps this is the reason modern wars never end. Everyone enjoys 9 months of strange every now and than.

 

[DuneBoer]

No fucking and no drinking is no way to fight a war.

 

[Graham]

Green Beret officer forced out of service

No fucking and no drinking is no way to fight a war.

He meant: With women.

...After all, it is the Middle East.

 

[Barneybdb]

Rules are made for the guidance of wise men, and the blind obedience of fools.

 

[fdkay]

Petraeus scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know well what the outcome was, the point being that when you're a peon screwing around, it's no big deal.
The further up the COC you are, the more political it is and decorum is required.
He was well aware of the possible repercussions and made the decision to shack up with the skank.

For a site where folks preach personal responsibility, it is quite amusing when many of those same folks rail against authorities that act when someone that knowingly violated regulations is punished.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Were Afghan/Iraqi girls really putting out like that?

How did they look?

 

[pmclaine]

Were Afghan/Iraqi girls really putting out like that?

How did they look?

Im guessing fraternization between the sexes in uniform or amongst males/females from the western countries over there.

The phrase "If all the pricks that had been stuck in her were sticking out of her, she would be a porcupine" comes to mind.

Excuse the sexism double standard if it offends.

Edit - Than again walking away from JEST to go to Olongapo or trading MRE's for favors other than rice and lumpia outside the concertina was not rare in the Phillipines.

 

[pmclaine]

As an add to the above my generalization is probably unfair.

I shouldnt assume all our servicewomen are banging like an unsecured screen door in the wind but I do assume chicks are no different than guys when it comes to banging

 

[sinister]

Besides being an officer in the US Army he was also a member of a closed tribe.

The tribe threw him out. He clearly knows and understands why.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Damn I was hoping [MENTION=6431]Victory[/MENTION] was about to post semi-nudes of some badass ME chicks.

 

[Victory]

Lol, taking pictures of you doing things you shouldn't is a Joe move. I've been through enough mandatory briefings to know better.

You think beer goggles are bad, you should see deployed beer goggles. They don't call them Desert Queens for nothing.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Lol, taking pictures of you doing things you shouldn't is a Joe move. I've been through enough mandatory briefings to know better.

You think beer goggles are bad, you should see deployed beer goggles. They don't call them Desert Queens for nothing.

Damn, well some is better`n none I guess.


Yall know how it is, some girls out there are simply "fine from far, but far from fine". Sometimes a good poke is exactly what the doc ordered though.

 

[diggler1833]

There are cases where none is definitely better than some, regardless of time spent away from home. Having to walk around, quietly apologizing to your dick over and over again is no fun.

The really "amazing" ones always get movie character names like Smiegel, Princess Fiona, or Chewbaca.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Article 133, UCMJ..........?

Article 134— Adultery

 

[Shooter McGavin]

And what happened to Petraeus?

I thought Petraeus was head of the CIA when he had his affair. Then he resigned.

 

[Hairball]

You know what they say "Cindy Crawford is just a light switch away" anyhow, he needed t be removed as you can't have someone of his rank running around doing "whatever" without consequences. I had a similar issue during OIF in 03 when we had this bat shit crazy Navy Captain in the field with us. After he disappeared for about a month running from camp to camp to evade disciplinary action, we finally located him and the CG sent our group surgeon up to escort him to the airport and make sure he got on the plane and sent his ass home. Last I heard he was the liaison for military emergency medicine and civilian responders in SOCAL. Figures, another example of getting fired and promoted at the same time.