Gun MPH - is it 600 yards or 1000 yards??

[jrsandiego12]

I've heard a different explanation from multiple people when saying they have a "5 mph" gun (for example). Some say it means your wind hold for 600 yards is .6 mil -- others have said its the wind rating when the gun holds 1.0 mil at 1000 yards. Given that holds start to increase more than .1 per 100 yards past 600 yards, the 1000 reference would be a tougher criteria and usually mean a lower wind number if using 1000 yards as the reference point. I would bet people are mixing and matching the two references.

(and yes, I understand the part about using this methodology for quick wind hold calcs when finding .6 at 600 - I'm talking about a guns performance rating reference.)

So when you are referencing a gun/load's wind's performance - do you reference 600 or 1000 yards?

 

[_Windrider_]

MPH gun

Can someone give a quick break down on determining you MPH gun. I heard it on the pod cast awhile back but now using the search feature is not turning up any viable results. Thank you!

www.snipershide.com

 

[Dthomas3523]

In perfect world, it’s from 200 all the way to 1k. .2 .3......1.0.

But sometimes that takes a .5 mph (5.5, 6.5 etc). Then it becomes your choice which.

For example, a 109 Berger in my rifle going 2815 needs a 5.5mph wind. At 6mph 1-700 line up and 8-1k add .1 each to .9, 1.0, 1.1. At 6mph it’s all -.1 to 900. And then back to 1.0 at 1k.

So, I either say I have a 6mph rifle and just remember past 800 I add .1 mil. Or I say I have a 5mph rifle and subtract .1 mil out to 900.

Or I could go completely nuts and say I have a 5.5mph gun.

This is just a quick reference system for practical sized targets. And it’s a starting point. You as the shooter adapt it to however you prefer.

 

[Jack Master]

I've heard a different explanation from multiple people when saying they have a "5 mph" gun (for example). Some say it means your wind hold for 600 yards is .6 mil -- others have said its the wind rating when the gun holds 1.0 mil at 1000 yards. Given that holds start to increase more than .1 per 100 yards past 600 yards, the 1000 reference would be a tougher criteria and usually mean a lower wind number if using 1000 yards as the reference point. I would bet people are mixing and matching the two references.

(and yes, I understand the part about using this methodology for quick wind hold calcs when finding .6 at 600 - I'm talking about a guns performance rating reference.)

So when you are referencing a gun/load's wind's performance - do you reference 600 or 1000 yards?

The Gun MPH method talked about in these forum is at the 600 yd distance.

I could see some fellas using the 1000 yd to compare calibers but not as practical use in the field (unless shooting 1000yds)

600 yds is the practical use reference distance. When I am chatting about tactical use, I'd still use the 600 yds to compare calibers.

 

[jrsandiego12]

got it, thanks.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I use 1K yards. At closer ranges the minor error isn't enough to matter. ( It most often amounts to less than a couple of inches on the target)

The reason some of these guys get wrapped around the axle about it, is that they are competition shooters and the vast majority of thier targets are within 600 yards. They would rather remember to add 0.1mil or 0.2mil at longer ranges.

I prefer to remember one number and not give much of a fuck about the rest. This is the way.

 

[Diver160651]

I use 1K yards. At closer ranges the minor error isn't enough to matter. ( It most often amounts to less than a couple of inches on the target)

The reason some of these guys get wrapped around the axle about it, is that they are competition shooters and the vast majority of thier targets are within 600 yards. They would rather remember to add 0.1mil or 0.2mil at longer ranges.

I prefer to remember one number and not give much of a fuck about the rest. This is the way.

is it really “wrapped around the axel” to use 600 or 700 instead of 1k?

Think about what you just said; I mean really brake it down.

1. First the mph was a great way to try to figure out the true average wind competitors where experiencing for their holds vs their kestrels prediction at only the FFP.

2. The mph was kinda a very rough way for competitors to transfer wind across calibers.

3. With wind being way easier to identify at 300 -600; your chances of getting a very good calibration on the wind is easier than let’s say 1k or 1500; as is the learning curve. It was meant as a fast and easy way to get a handle on wind budgets- .. So getting “ wrapped around the axel”, is the complete opposite of running your calculator to 1000.

When you’re worried about 1,000
And beyond you should have the time and opportunity to divorce yourself from the easy fast wind cheat and work the solution properly.

 

[Dthomas3523]

As you can see, there is no hard and fast rule.

Run the numbers and use it however is easiest for you to remember or use it.

“Elite” wind guys are able to make wind calls within 2mph (of what the actual value is to make a hit on target, not just what wind is doing at shooter). Most no one, let alone people on this forum, are reading wind that well as it’s very difficult. So don’t get too wrapped up in it.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

is it really “wrapped around the axel” to use 600 or 700 instead of 1k?

Think about what you just said; I mean really brake it down.

1. First the mph was a great way to try to figure out the true average wind competitors where experiencing for their holds vs their kestrels prediction at only the FFP.

2. The mph was kinda a very rough way for competitors to transfer wind across calibers.

3. With wind being way easier to identify at 300 -600; your chances of getting a very good calibration on the wind is easier than let’s say 1k or 1500; as is the learning curve. It was meant as a fast and easy way to get a handle on wind budgets- .. So getting “ wrapped around the axel”, is the complete opposite of running your calculator to 1000.

When you’re worried about 1,000
And beyond you should have the time and opportunity to divorce yourself from the easy fast wind cheat and work the solution properly.

Look for yourself at the length and tone of your response. I'd say it is a little bit wrapped.

I don't care what you use. Just don't act like that was the original and only way of doing it, because it wasn't and it isn't.

The math can be as precise as you like, it is only a quick "cheat" when used imprecisely.

When I attended Caylen's wind class last summer I was able to put him on steel at 1,400 yards with a .308 in a switchy 15mph wind, using nothing more than a $5 solar calculator to double check my math.

That particular shot was his personal record with a .308...or so he told me.

 

[seansmd]

The intent is for shooter A to communicate the effective full value wind, *the wind was 13mph effective for me*, and allow shooter B to map that to their caliber. Me hearing 13mph and quickly getting the hold for the target for my rifle is the goal, vs their mil hold which doesn't match.

It doesn't matter if A used 600 reference and B used 1k reference.

 

[Diver160651]

Oh, brother, when we start using - I made this shot as an example of proof, things are really going off the rails. I’ve seen a lot of great shots, many possibly the results of positive compensation on top of their skill set. I have videos of shoots within inches of each other on plates past 2k, some 1st and second round - but I also have video of missing. Sometimes for me, things just come together, but that isn't proof that a magic wind call was made or one is somehow at the top of the game.

Congratulations on your achievement in helping Caylen read the wind. It really is something. For those that might night know how great of an achievement it is to call a 308 in @ "1,400 yards with a .308 in a switchy 15mph wind", a 1mph variance would be somewhere around .4mil will at 175SMK @2650/29 -- linear, it's something like -307" FV vrs -329"

For most of us, especially if we are asking questions like "How-to" or "What -do I use", we'd have to assume they/we are not Emil (AB's elite wind guru) and as such maybe can't read the wind as well and vet their shooting easily or accurately at 1000, as they might at 500-700 yards, or whatever range they have available. A lot fewer people have access to 1k than we do out here in the West and It is also a bit easier for most people to track multiple shoots across time and wind conditions.

If you have a rifle like a 308 you might find to get 1K to line up at 1 mil you'll need 3.6mph, using 600 might result in closer to 4mph is probably easier and may well work better for most people's brain, for most ranges without needing a calculator. Then just like you illustrated use your calculator with your finner 1000 yard wind number when time and opportunity are increased with the longer range.

Whatever you use, 700 or 1000 to come up with your mph will have to start using +.1 modifiers. One is like using a 100-yard zero and the other is like using a 200-yard zero. One only has additional and the other and booth subtraction and addition; Both work.

FWIW, using wrapped around the axel was not my slam; nor was my post intended to be of a certain "tone", I simply responded to your use of it. This wind thing was as several of us pointed out a quick communication tool. if it is broken down into parts of miles per hour to line up perfectly at 1K, it stops being that tool for most of us.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Oh, brother, when we start using - I made this shot as an example of proof, things are really going off the rails. I’ve seen a lot of great shots, many possibly the results of positive compensation on top of their skill set. I have videos of shoots within inches of each other on plates past 2k, some 1st and second round - but I also have video of missing. Sometimes for me, things just come together, but that isn't proof that a magic wind call was made or one is somehow at the top of the game.

Congratulations on your achievement in helping Caylen read the wind. It really is something. For those that might night know how great of an achievement it is to call a 308 in @ "1,400 yards with a .308 in a switchy 15mph wind", a 1mph variance would be somewhere around .4mil will at 175SMK @2650/29 -- linear, it's something like -307" FV vrs -329"

For most of us, especially if we are asking questions like "How-to" or "What -do I use", we'd have to assume they/we are not Emil (AB's elite wind guru) and as such maybe can't read the wind as well and vet their shooting easily or accurately at 1000, as they might at 500-700 yards, or whatever range they have available. A lot fewer people have access to 1k than we do out here in the West and It is also a bit easier for most people to track multiple shoots across time and wind conditions.

If you have a rifle like a 308 you might find to get 1K to line up at 1 mil you'll need 3.6mph, using 600 might result in closer to 4mph is probably easier and may well work better for most people's brain, for most ranges without needing a calculator. Then just like you illustrated use your calculator with your finner 1000 yard wind number when time and opportunity are increased with the longer range.

Whatever you use, 700 or 1000 to come up with your mph will have to start using +.1 modifiers. One is like using a 100-yard zero and the other is like using a 200-yard zero. One only has additional and the other and booth subtraction and addition; Both work.

FWIW, using wrapped around the axel was not my slam; nor was my post intended to be of a certain "tone", I simply responded to your use of it. This wind thing was as several of us pointed out a quick communication tool. if it is broken down into parts of miles per hour to line up perfectly at 1K, it stops being that tool for most of us.

Yeah, this post is wrapped waaay tight.

The OP wanted to know why some used 600 yards and some used 1000 yards. I told him. Right on cue you show up to prove my point, so thanks for that.

The shot I doped for Caylen definitely had an amount of uncertainty to it. Every shot does...but that wasn't my first time.

 

[Diver160651]

So explaining the differences, a bit of the main use and why the values are different is wrapped tight?

I don't believe, putting others (wrapped around the axel) down and beating your chest is a great way to answer the op.; especially in light that
TacticalDillhole @Dthomas3523 and @Jack Master hit the nail on the head in the 1st and 2nd and 3rd response.

Whatever someone uses, the pure MPH .1mil per 100 falls apart, shortly after 1,000 yards, whether you use 600, 800 or 1000 without really adding modifiers.

 

[jrsandiego12]

Sorry this discussion devolved - thanks for everyone's input tho.