Gun Safe

[bassani]

I couldn't find a concise recent post on this topic.

What is a good safe company that makes small fingerprint safes for handguns and small items?
What is a good safe company that makes larger rifle safe?

 

[Rem7]

Re: Gun Safe

Best bang for the buck, Visalia Safes. They can make you a safe withing a safe with 1/4" wall and a 10ga inner liner. You can't beatem for the price and they are rock solid. Best of the best Graffunder all the way. Brown Safe Co makes good ones too. Forgot to mention Sturdy Safes for the best bang for buck. These are for rifle safes.

 

[TF160 Guy]

Re: Gun Safe

I like Liberty Safes because you get the best construction, weight, materials and security for the cost.

The important factors are door and wall thickness, number and size of locking lugs, fire and forced entry rating, lock manufacturer and its rating, door seal material, filler material, and wired for lights and humidifier.

Unimportant things are paint color, finish, gold plating, type of fabric on the interior, number of spokes on the wheel. Beware of brands which show only these things in the advertisement.

Buy bigger than you think you need so you have room to grow.

Heavy is good.

When comparing construction, materials, thicknesses and ratings for fire and entry make sure the data is the same - minutes to minutes, thickness, size of lugs, etc.

The axiom "Buy once, Cry once" applies here.

Good luck

 

[Guerrilla Monsoon]

Re: Gun Safe

I've got a Liberty as well. And I cannot stress enough the need to buy a safe about twice as large as you think you'll need.

 

[Jrb572]

Re: Gun Safe

Buy two smaller safes. Easier to get down steps to the basement and will be easier to move if you ever do.

 

[SourMash]

Re: Gun Safe

I agree to buy bigger than what you think you'll need. I just got mine and I couldn't be happier, it's 72"x41" and quite heavy. Mine is a Fort Knox but like was said above, buy once cry once.

 

[TacT-MecH]

Re: Gun Safe

This video is pretty good. Gives some good points and points out some other facts that are "disguised" by manufactures sales team. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK-bDbADa8. I bought a cannon armory 54. Its not the most secure but it fit. I kind of wish i would have bought 2 smaller ones. They claim it will hold 80 guns, but 15 pretty much fills up half.

 

[lightman]

Re: Gun Safe

Lots of good advice,so far.Consider this as a lifetime investment.Buy the biggest,nicest,heaviest that you can afford.Finance it,if you have to.Buy one bigger than you think you need,your collection and your assets will grow.Consider fire protection.Probably not a wrong choice on brands,just buy a nice one.I have the biggest Fort Knox,and I'm happy with it.If I ever buy another,I would look at Graffunder.

 

[jimneb]

Re: Gun Safe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guerrilla Monsoon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got a Liberty as well. And I cannot stress enough the need to buy a safe about twice as large as you think you'll need. </div></div>

This is good advice. Long barreled scoped rifles can take up more room in a safe than you'd think.

 

[Jhnmdahl]

Re: Gun Safe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jrb572</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Buy two smaller safes. Easier to get down steps to the basement and will be easier to move if you ever do. </div></div>

Where were you with this advice before I bought my monster safe? An idea worth repeating...

John

 

[mrfudd]

Re: Gun Safe

I bought a bigger liberty than I thought I needed. Ended up buying another liberty. Don't expect to fit 30 scoped rifles in a safe rated for 30 long guns.

 

[bassani]

Re: Gun Safe

thanks

lots of good advise on the larger safes.

What about a small biometrics secure box that could be by your bedside type thing?

 

[Rem7]

Re: Gun Safe

Seen a few liberty's cracked and dumped if fields, lower end Liberties tho. I like steel not composite.

 

[StuTalon]

Re: Gun Safe

Looking into my first safe as well - for those of you with them in the basement, what did you secure them to the floor with? Just curious as to what is involved...

 

[mrfudd]

Re: Gun Safe

I used tap in inserts that expand when you tighten the bolt

 

[jeo556]

Re: Gun Safe

For rifle safes the best bang for the buck is Sturdy or Amsec. Try out Safe and Vault Store as this is where I found a great price on an AMSEC BF series.

I don't have any ideas as to the smaller safe so I'm going to listen to other's suggestions.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Gun Safe

make sure it has a good fire rating, recessed door and inside hinges. most companies curb drop and you are on your own to bring it in, find one that will bring it in your house free of charge like Fort Knox for example.
safe are a lifetime commitment, buy bigger than you need today.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Gun Safe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">make sure it has a good fire rating, recessed door and <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">inside hinges</span></span>. most companies curb drop and you are on your own to bring it in, find one that will bring it in your house free of charge like Fort Knox for example.
safe are a lifetime commitment, buy bigger than you need today. </div></div>

Hinges on the outside are irrelevant. All hinges function for are to support the door when opening on a safe.

 

[BigBlue&Goldie]

Re: Gun Safe

I will further reinforce what others have said about getting the biggest safe you can afford. Take the manufacturers rating and divid it by 2, and that will likely be the number of rifles it will hold.

I have a Superior and have been very happy with it. It's a heavy pig, but it has a great finish.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Re: Gun Safe

Let me point out an interesting observation. American Security makes UL-listed buglary-rated safes for the commercial sector. You'll find their products in many businesses. I can't think of one gun safe company that makes burglary safes or anything besides a UL RSC-rated container made of folded sheet metal, sometimes thin plate, and drywall. Graffunder uses a letter-class classification. They make safes with wall thicknesses up to 1-1.5", solid. Graffunder and AMSEC's BC series both use a composite design that traps the fire barrier between two skins. These are the best designs I've seen in the gun safe world as they're the same construction methods used by real safe companies. Fire insulating material like gypsum board work by releasing moisture content when it reaches a boiling point. I don't really fancy the idea of my guns taking a sauna. In all cases, no gun safes obtain a UL-listed fire approval. Keep that in mind.

If you're more concerned with security than convenience, two smaller gun safes splits your eggs between two risk baskets, especially if stored in two locations. It reduces the chance of complete loss from fire or theft.

 

[Nukes]

Re: Gun Safe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fiveshotdot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This video is pretty good. Gives some good points and points out some other facts that are "disguised" by manufactures sales team. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK-bDbADa8. I bought a cannon armory 54. Its not the most secure but it fit. I kind of wish i would have bought 2 smaller ones. They claim it will hold 80 guns, but 15 pretty much fills up half. </div></div>

I was thinking of upgrading to a huge Cannon safe, so I am curious why you consider Cannons "not the most secure."

I agree that scoped rifles, especially with pistol grips and detachable magazines eat up 3 spaces. Often there is not enough height for many suppressed or .50 BMG-sized rifles.

That was an excellent video. Very instructive. Thank you.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Gun Safe

Is it still the general opinion that a dial is better than an electric keypad?

 

[Phil1]

Re: Gun Safe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">make sure it has a good fire rating, recessed door and <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">inside hinges</span></span>. most companies curb drop and you are on your own to bring it in, find one that will bring it in your house free of charge like Fort Knox for example.
safe are a lifetime commitment, buy bigger than you need today. </div></div>

Hinges on the outside are irrelevant. All hinges function for are to support the door when opening on a safe. </div></div>

YES.

Any well designed safe has a design whereby the hinges are not relevant to any attempt at forced entry.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Re: Gun Safe

One more thing to add. Number of active bolts is rarely relevent from a security standpoint unless the door and frame are thin enough that extra bolts are -required- to keep the door from flexing and bending from a pry attack. No one attacks a commercial safe via pry attacks because the doors are typically 1/2" to over 2" thick of solid metal with a solid metal frame. They simply don't bend with levering tools. Hence, typically only 3-4 active bolts on the swing side are necessary because the safe is sufficiently rigid. If it's a composite safe that relies more on the composite fill for security than the external steel layer, then it'll typically have more active bolts.

There is one particular gun safe brand's flagship model that runs $20k with upgrades and brags about it's 28 active bolts, which is ridiculous but perhaps necessary because it has a very thin 3/8" steel door and 1/4" thick walls (if upgraded!). For all that money, it's still only UL rated RSC, to withstand a 5 minute attack with hand tools.

According to a SAVTA (safe and vault technician association) guy, dial locks from a quality manufacturer like S&G or Legard are reliable workhorses. Electronic locks tend to simply have more that can go wrong with them. Unless you keep your home defense gun in a safe, spending an extra minute to open the safe is a minor inconvenience if you're paranoid about electronic devices breaking. Just don't be lazy and remember to spin the dial when done and don't predial part of your combo to save time for next time you want entry.

Considering the typical safe attack is hiting the lock or handle with a hammer and giving up (the damaged combo lock or keypad doesn't defeat the locking mechanism), neither really offers more protection to the typical burglar.

 

[SourMash]

Re: Gun Safe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">make sure it has a good fire rating, recessed door and inside hinges. most companies curb drop and you are on your own to bring it in, find one that will bring it in your house free of charge like Fort Knox for example.
safe are a lifetime commitment, buy bigger than you need today. </div></div>

I just got a Fort Knox and they sure didn't bring it in my house free of charge. I spent quite a bit of money to have it shipped to GA from Utah. I do agree with getting the best fire protection that you can afford, but the hinges are irrelevant.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Re: Gun Safe

Most companies will bring it to your front door or roll it in the garage on a pallet. The rest is up to you.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: Gun Safe

I like my Amsec.

 

[kstraughen]

Re: Gun Safe

Larger Safe Liberty. Use promo code Glen beck you can get discount.
I believe the promo is still current.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Gun Safe

I got a Heritage. The buy it price included shipping to my door. I have been very happy with my purchase as it met my budget for price, capacity and securtity. Heritage was great to work ith and the delivery was as they stated it would be. They are a US made product.

I wouldnt recommend anyone trying to move the safe with friends. For what it will cost you in beer, pizza, damage to your house and scratches on your new safe hire a professional mover. For $300 (Boston, MA area) I got three riggers with all the special tools floor protection plates and lifts to get the safe from pallet to basement with no damage in about 45 minutes.

 

[Yakface]

Re: Gun Safe

Pay attention to how its laid out. The amount of firearms the manufacturers claim their safest hold isn't always true. I just sold a 22 gun safe that could only hold 14 long guns. It had 3 rows of gun storage, the front row was useless. If a gun was in it the door wouldn't close. Scope, no scope, little Marlin 22, it didn't matter.

 

[jeo556]

Re: Gun Safe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I wouldnt recommend anyone trying to move the safe with friends. For what it will cost you in beer, pizza, damage to your house and scratches on your new safe hire a professional mover. For $300 (Boston, MA area) I got three riggers with all the special tools floor protection plates and lifts to get the safe from pallet to basement with no damage in about 45 minutes. </div></div>

Although I agree with this statement if you have to negotiate steps, with four buddies and some 1.5" wooden dowel rods we moved a ~1250lb safe about 50' is less than 20 minutes. We didn't damage the walls, doorways, or safe and it saved me a ton as the best price I found in the PGH area was over $600 to move the safe from the garage to it's permanant location(safe floor).

If you do plan to move it yourself there are some really great videos on youtube made by the guys at Sturdy Safe that helped a ton.

 

[the_dude8541]

Re: Gun Safe

Sportsmans Steel Safes...I have had one for many years and couldn't be more happy with it. They will custom make a safe to what you want also, which I did with mine. You won't be disapointed.

 

[fireEMT5]

Re: Gun Safe

If getting a safe into your basement is a concern, take a look at Zanotti armour safes - carry them in piece by piece and assmemble...... if you decide to move, disassemble and take with you.

As for the fire rating, they are all over rated. My Zanotti has no fire board in it at all. I mounted a sprinkler head in the ceiling in the room where my safe is in the basement... if that doesn't do the trick, then I have bigger problems. Also mounted the safe up off the floor on a 4" riser to help for a little while if the sprinkler head goes off or the basement floods.

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Gun Safe

I wish they gave more information on their BABY SAFE which is a safe within a safe. No specs, price or anything.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rem7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Best bang for the buck, Visalia Safes. They can make you a safe withing a safe with 1/4" wall and a 10ga inner liner. You can't beatem for the price and they are rock solid. Best of the best Graffunder all the way. Brown Safe Co makes good ones too. Forgot to mention Sturdy Safes for the best bang for buck. These are for rifle safes. </div></div>

 

[zenghost]

Re: Gun Safe

Just went through this process. Looked at a lot info and concluded the following:

Graffunder - if price is no issue

Otherwise, Amsec BF series or Sturdy Safe are the runner-ups. Visalia may be OK. This post is the first I've heard of them after a lot of research.

I needed a smaller safe to fit into a walk-in closet. Went with a Amsec BF6032 from a relatively close dealer who was not the least expensive, but took the time to answer my questions in detail and will not only deliver the safe, but install it, bolt it down and take the time to protect my flooring.

I opted for a S&G dial combination lock over the available electronic options.

I am installing in first floor closet and had an engineer look at and calculate the load on the structure to ensure there would be no issue with it crashing into the basement. Worth the time and trouble in my mind.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Re: Gun Safe

The AMSEC HS series is a step up from the BF series and comes in a UL TL15 and TL30 security rating. I believe these are a line of their commercial safes with a gunsafe interior and glossy finish.

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Gun Safe

Here is the email I got from Visalia after inquiring about buying the "baby safe"..

On our website you can see a picture of a baby safe installed in one of our large safes. We do not sell them generally speaking but just install them in our regular safes. They are made of metal and are insulated for fire and we weld them in our safes. We do not make this safe and we buy them on the outside. The idea behind the baby safe is for safe owners who have kids or other people with access to the safe to have a secure place to put money,jewelry,documents or other items secured from them.


So where can one get a safe like they sell? According to them they get it from an outside source.. im interested in putting a small safe in my big safe.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jackalope33B</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wish they gave more information on their BABY SAFE which is a safe within a safe. No specs, price or anything.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rem7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Best bang for the buck, Visalia Safes. They can make you a safe withing a safe with 1/4" wall and a 10ga inner liner. You can't beatem for the price and they are rock solid. Best of the best Graffunder all the way. Brown Safe Co makes good ones too. Forgot to mention Sturdy Safes for the best bang for buck. These are for rifle safes. </div></div> </div></div>

 

[GHatfield]

Re: Gun Safe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it still the general opinion that a dial is better than an electric keypad? </div></div>

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...673#Post3298673

 

[Dracozny]

Re: Gun Safe

I like push button mechanical locks. they are quick to access and have enough combinations available with simultaneous pushes. I'm sure there is a downside to them somewhere.

 

[hmhoshino]

Re: Gun Safe

I am interested in getting a Patriot 24 gun safe because it has a 2 hour fire rating . Also It has many upgrades as standard equipment that you would have to extra for if you similar upgrades on Liberty safe. Another thing no sales tax, I live CA, and free shipping. You also get an additional 10% off for Leo discount. They also have life time warranty. Sounds too good to pass up?

Anyone have a Patriot Safe.
Henry

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Gun Safe

I just got an email from Tony who is the owner of Visalia safe company. He told me the safe they use that they call a baby safe is made by First Alert. he also said that during assembly of their full size safe if a customer wants a baby safe they weld it into the big safe. Now if you already have a safe this is going to be a task in hand to Install a baby safe. I'm guessing you can cut out the fire board out on the inside of your big safe and get somebody to weld the baby safe in there but I can only imagine what the weld will do to the finish on the outside of your big safe. I guess another option would be to install some type of lag bolts, but then again I think you would have to cut out the fire board so the small safe can fit flush up against the metal inside of the big safe. These baby safes weigh around 60lbs and go up depending on size.
Any ideas?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jackalope33B</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is the email I got from Visalia after inquiring about buying the "baby safe"..

On our website you can see a picture of a baby safe installed in one of our large safes. We do not sell them generally speaking but just install them in our regular safes. They are made of metal and are insulated for fire and we weld them in our safes. We do not make this safe and we buy them on the outside. The idea behind the baby safe is for safe owners who have kids or other people with access to the safe to have a secure place to put money,jewelry,documents or other items secured from them.


So where can one get a safe like they sell? According to them they get it from an outside source.. im interested in putting a small safe in my big safe.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jackalope33B</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wish they gave more information on their BABY SAFE which is a safe within a safe. No specs, price or anything.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rem7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Best bang for the buck, Visalia Safes. They can make you a safe withing a safe with 1/4" wall and a 10ga inner liner. You can't beatem for the price and they are rock solid. Best of the best Graffunder all the way. Brown Safe Co makes good ones too. Forgot to mention Sturdy Safes for the best bang for buck. These are for rifle safes. </div></div> </div></div> </div></div>

 

[RGraff]

Re: Gun Safe

Whatever you do, minimize any penetration of the walls while installing your "baby safe". While the wall board most of these companies use is suspect in terms of fire resistance anyway, you don't want to make it worse by giving the heat a direct conduit to the interior of your safe. My suggestion is to mount to the floor. You'll lose a bit of long gun storage but, typically, the bottom of the unit is the least heat affected area in a residential, ground floor installation.

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Gun Safe

so in other words do not cut out the fire board? I thought about mounting the small safe to the floor but it will be a bitch to get to every time I need to get into it. the best place I thought to mount it was in the upper right hand corner of the big safe.. so based on what you're telling me I think the best bet would be to leave the fire board in place and just drill 2 holes through the big safe and install some sort of lag bolts..





<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RGraff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whatever you do, minimize any penetration of the walls while installing your "baby safe". While the wall board most of these companies use is suspect in terms of fire resistance anyway, you don't want to make it worse by giving the heat a direct conduit to the interior of your safe. My suggestion is to mount to the floor. You'll lose a bit of long gun storage but, typically, the bottom of the unit is the least heat affected area in a residential, ground floor installation. </div></div>

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Gun Safe

Very good video! It was informational.
Here are some other videos I found disturbing lol

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ltK-bDbADa8&desktop_uri=/watch?v=ltK-bDbADa8&gl=US


http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=BRTnJVwYkJs



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fiveshotdot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This video is pretty good. Gives some good points and points out some other facts that are "disguised" by manufactures sales team. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK-bDbADa8. I bought a cannon armory 54. Its not the most secure but it fit. I kind of wish i would have bought 2 smaller ones. They claim it will hold 80 guns, but 15 pretty much fills up half. </div></div>

 

[5hans5]

Re: Gun Safe

My 2 cents:

Bought a Pentagon safe 10 years ago (when it was tougher to find safes BTW) and been pretty happy with it. VERY thick door, reasonable construction quality, very heavy, and very big. Assholes to deal with though. The shafe is not glamorous, but solid. I've heard +/- stories about them since.

Thought it would be forever big- well, forever is pretty close. I'd say go big, but you've got to figure out your space and if you'll need to hire movers, etc. I'm going to have to get another some day and it'll be another real research moment.

You might want to ask a certified safe locksmith for their take on things. They do small ones to banks, so they know what they are looking at and might have suggestions.

Good luck.

 

[bburnham]

Re: Gun Safe

Just a side note on this discussion: A few months ago I had to move 2 approx 500 lbs safes downstairs to my new mancave. I bought a professional quality dolly with 1200 lbs capacity , for about 300 bucks including shipping. Worked great with just 2 buddies helping. I figured it was worth the investment. Safes got moved safely and most likely I will be buying another safe. Besides that, I now have the baddest furniture moving dolly around.

 

[DPhillips62]

Re: Gun Safe

I have been in the fire service for 28 years as a fire fighter and an investigator. If the fire dept. has a delayed respone time I don't care who maks the safe your guns are probably toast. temps will exceed the safes rateing. anything over 15 min. (that is from the time the fire dept. recievs the alarm to the time they are flowing water)your guns will probably be toast unless your house is sprinkled. If you live in an unincorperated area forget about your guns response time will be too long. I only say this because if you are purchaseing a safe for its fire rating don't be surprised if your items are not damaged. I have seen many safes opened after a fire with all the guns inside destroyed. Now people with basements may be better off as long as the fire does not extend there. My safe choice was based on security only it was home made and provides very little fire resistance. now this may upset some of you and the safe manufactures but i base this on what I have actually seen.

 

[Dollman]

Re: Gun Safe

I have a Halls safe that I had built for me in 1997. Their safes are very high quality, extremely heavy, and absolutely beautiful. These are custom built safes which are a bit spendy and do take several months for them to complete from time of order. Well worth the $$$ and wait time by my experience.

http://www.hallsafe.com/main.html

 

[MK75]

Re: Gun Safe

I am looking to buy my first safe... Finally, and I am loving the advice guys. Thanks.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Re: Gun Safe

I have never heard of Hall Safe. I just looked through their brochure and it looks like they have options for some good levels of security, upwards of 1" thick plate steel body construction with random relockers like Graffunder. Good to learn of another company out there making some heavy duty stuff.

I do question their 140F internal temperature fire claim. That's dangerously close to the UL Class 125 fire label of 125F internal temperatures, which is incredibly difficult to achieve. Media safes have incredibly thick multi-layered walls to prevent the moisture content of the fire composite from flooding the media chamber and ruining your data. Anyhow it can't be worse than the drywall most gun safe companies stick in their safes anyhow. Also advertising a product as "fireproof" and "burglar-proof" is erroneous. Should read "fire resistant and burglar-resistant"