GunsAmerica: Tactical Rifles Sues The Snipers Hide – The Truth About Internet...

#51
GunsAmerica: Tactical Rifles Sues The Snipers Hide – The Truth About Internet...

Direct quote from Paul Helinski of GunsAmerica

As many of you know, at GunsAmerica we don’t allow a “free flow of ideas”



As many of you know, at GunsAmerica we don’t allow a “free flow of ideas” from armchair experts who comment negatively on every story. Most of them have given up here, but they find a home on places where that behavior is encouraged to create controversy, which leads to more comments on stories, which gives the illusion that the site is very active, which brings in more ad dollars. The Truth About those sites is that they are run by parasites to our industry who had little interest in guns or the 2nd Amendment before 2008′s election of Barack Obama, which led to a windfall boom for the gun business and interest in guns.

nadehahy.jpg

Paul Helinski of Guns America

TacticalRifles.net Sues The Snipers Hide ? The Truth About Internet Bullies
 
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#52
The_Count said:
All the name calling and childish remarks about looks... etc. do not help Frank's case. In fact, those behaviours only serve to strengthen the case of those calling Frank and the members of this site Bullies. If you can not think of more intelligent commentary on the subject then don't contribute. This isn't a locker room, and this isn't a situation where ignorance or childishness will help. Right now there is an immense amount of scrutiny, and the best thing that we can do for Frank and Sniper's Hide is be on our best behaviour and act like the professionals we all are.
Click to expand...
Quite right you are Count.

People tend to get emotional when faced with supreme idiocy. I know it's hard for me to remain objective in the face of such BS.
 
#53
This is really a test of the internet blog community and in general of how items, goods, and services are reviewed on the web. Everywhere you look on the internet there are critiques of goods and services that highlight both good customer service and bad. From the restaurant reviews to the local plumber on Angie's List indicates how just normal people can hamper companies conduct of commerce.

I for one, read all what was on the Guns America Blog, and determined that I would never conduct business with that site. They chose sides where that is always a bad idea when you need others to utilize your services. Whenever you open yourself to supporting a known issue with TR, then they have chosen the side of their advertisement budget, and not with the poor guys that have continuous and repetitive issues with TR customer service. Issues with TR are not new and is not just on Sniper's Hide, it is commonly known with people in the field. TR relies on new people in to the sport with all their advertisements to bring new clients in but as you have seen with just with a little research it would be easy to find that all is not well down there in Florida.
 
#54
Quotes taken from the article, not in order of appearance, but ones that jumped out to me...

"The issue is one of bloggers and internet forum owners using their websites as bully pulpits to promote their own goals"

"This is a case about standing up to an internet bully who makes his own rules for his private fifedom and uses it to intentionally hurt a good business"

"Most of them have given up here, but they find a home on places where that behavior is encouraged to create controversy, which leads to more comments on stories, which gives the illusion that the site is very active, which brings in more ad dollars."

So, if I understand this right, he says that TR has been bullied in order to create discussion and controversy and drive traffic to SH to generate additional revenue from site sponsors...which seems to be exactly what he is doing for GA... Going so far as to rip the SH members incites even more emotion, which will lead to even more traffic to GA's site. That's certainly one way to get people there, although not one I would recommend...
 
#57
Another quote from Paul Helinski of GunsAmerica.

"Internet bullies who beat up champions of our freedom and important financial backers to our strongest political lobby are not welcome here in the trenches of 2nd Amendment freedom. They should be made an example of, and David should pursue this to the end. "
 
#58
Assuming the end is TR getting smacked down I completely agree.

rxs0 said:
Another quote from Paul Helinski of GunsAmerica.

"Internet bullies who beat up champions of our freedom and important financial backers to our strongest political lobby are not welcome here in the trenches of 2nd Amendment freedom. They should be made an example of, and David should pursue this to the end. "
Click to expand...
 
#59
Here is a very good comment made by Dr. Marc Williams on the GunsAmerica website. I posted it here before it is deleted/censored on the GunAmerica website by Paul Helinski.

"I’m not exactly sure why GunsAmerica would want to jump both feet into this internet mess but here we are. First, I have known Frank for many years now and call him friend and in all that time have found him to always be an honest and no “bullshit” kind of guy. I find it interesting your article immediately paints Frank as an “internet bully” and industry “parasite” then wraps TacticalRifles in the patriotic flag of the 2nd Amendment. I suppose this ” Blogger” has already divined the future, seen the results of this lawsuit and feels comfortable casting their own aspersions. While I’m not privy to the particular points in this mess and I do not have knowledge of TacticalRifles as a business entity or rifle maker I can comment on the general theme because we have all seen it before. Almost every time a business cries foul over an “internet slander” they have let a substandard product get out of their shop. After the inevitable internet pile-on the the business gets a little butt hurt and starts crying foul instead of going to the source of the complaint and trying to rectify it immediately. Human nature, pride and anonymity steps in and the saga continues to no ones benefit. To be perfectly blunt trying to run and police an internet forum is like trying to herd feral cats. I follow and use GA and am very disappointed you have chosen sides in this matter. I suspect this post will not make it on the comments section but I did want you to know my thoughts."

Dr Marc Williams
 
#60
Lowlight said:
As posted in the other thread about this topic,

Make sure, since Guns America is deleting comments until Monday, that you contact their sponsors about this.

The fact they are knowingly spreading false information about what is legal and what is just pure speculation puts them on the same plane as Tactical Rifles. They jumped in this with both feet, knowingly made false allegations against me that have no legal bearing, and are promoting Tactical Rifles as the victim in all this, we need to let their sponsors know, supporting a Frivolous Lawsuit against anyone is not to be tolerated.

Email their sponsors, and let them know. The truth is truly out there and they made no effort to seek the truth and even when presented with legal precedent regarding this case, they dismissed and continued to promote the lies.

Since they don't care, maybe there sponsors might. I mean how can you trust anything they say when they are willing to bend the truth this far for the sake of a supporter.
Click to expand...

I think it only fair that since they are trying to sue you and the forum..... you send the exact same allegations to Guns America. They have stepped into a huge pile of shit and you should call them on it, publicly!
If we get their sponsors on board to start pulling away from them, another nail in the coffin. We have close to 90k registered users here, that is a lot of pull.
 
#66
I say we settle this the old fashion way. Not in a court room but out in the field. Tr and ga, build your best rifle and send your best shooter. Frank and the hide does the same thing. Looser pays all cost incurred thus far and winner gets bragging rights. Whole thing goes on YouTube and Facebook. May the best win!
 
#67
This site influences just about all of the gun manufacturers. Look at all of the advances in Optics, stocks, rifles, pistols, just about everything that we use. All of the manufacturers have people that watch this forum. They are looking for trends that we are doing to be able to incorporate it into their line of goods.

Email to the companies are going to be the downfall of TR and GA.
 
#69
I spoke to Paul @ GA This afternoon and the post was edited to reflect that conversation

The fact he took the call and spent a considerable amount of time on the phone, then edited his article should be a signal that there is no reason to engage in name calling or personal attacks on him.

We discussed the issues, so you can chill a bit on the name calling
 
#70
Lowlight said:
I spoke to Paul @ GA This afternoon and the post was edited to reflect that conversation

The fact he took the call and spent a considerable amount of time on the phone, then edited his article should be a signal that there is no reason to engage in name calling or personal attacks on him.

We discussed the issues, so you can chill a bit on the name calling
Click to expand...

Good to hear that some issues were resolved.
 
#71
Lowlight said:
I spoke to Paul @ GA This afternoon and the post was edited to reflect that conversation

The fact he took the call and spent a considerable amount of time on the phone, then edited his article should be a signal that there is no reason to engage in name calling or personal attacks on him.

We discussed the issues, so you can chill a bit on the name calling
Click to expand...

Frank, while I think it a step in the right direction that he spoke to you. I still have a problem with him attacking you and then us as forum guests. He blindly jumped on the TR bandwagon and started pumping them up as "the attacked good guys" by the internet bully Sniper's Hide.
I think all in all he should issue a public apology, delete the article, and take a giant step back away from the situation. Just my 2 cents. It's not right for an "author" to dog pile a group that he clearly knows nothing about.
 
#75
KYS said:
Frank, while I think it a step in the right direction that he spoke to you. I still have a problem with him attacking you and then us as forum guests. He blindly jumped on the TR bandwagon and started pumping them up as "the attacked good guys" by the internet bully Sniper's Hide.
I think all in all he should issue a public apology, delete the article, and take a giant step back away from the situation. Just my 2 cents. It's not right for an "author" to dog pile a group that he clearly knows nothing about.
Click to expand...

I agree and again asked why I was held to a different standard,

When pushed and asked why I should not sue him for "deleting my members comments supporting me" he said, "well because I said wait until monday" so I replied, okay, why did you delete them and not just leave the comments in moderation until Monday. Insert Ren & Stimpie blinking eyes, he said he only deleted the duplicates or something ?

he clearly doesn't understand any of this and believes that David Rooney has a Binder of Terror with "evidence" against me. And he did not make any effort to read the complaint or view anything posted.

They don't seem to be able to tie together,

1. David Rooney sent a letter demanding negative posts be removed from SH in 2010 and in doing this we removed all posts
2. Within 2 hours of the video being posted on here, we allowed all comments, good and bad posted, and that David Rooney Sent Rob L over to defend the company.

They are hiding in that period between 2010 and the posting of the video in 2012. They believe that equal time is a justifiable cause for their suit and that TR.Net was entitled to "free unbiased" representation on here.

What it boils down to is, if this was a Chevy Fan Site, a Ford Dealer is suing us for not also promoting their product.

He feels all these things, points to me working in concert against his company with the sole purpose of hurting his business. He bears zero responsibility for his own actions, or his letter in 2010 threatening the site with litigation. Which in hindsight, is the case.

It's really circular and convoluted in their thinking. GA is clearly liable for their actions and their lack of seeking out the facts. How that plays will be determined as we move forward. But he feels what he did deleting our comments from Friday to Monday is different than what David is accusing SH of doing, despite the fact were threatened and told to remove the comments.
 
#76
Frank,

Thanks for the update. This whole pissing match is such an unfortunate turn of events -- one that should never have occurred.

Please do not hesitate to holler for help. Many of us here will lend a hand wherever we can.
 
#77
I should also add a part of that article by GA was a veiled attack against "The Truth about Guns" .

Apparently there is some bad blood there, and we were supposed to infer from the use of "Truth" with a capital that is what it was about.

All the parasite and blogger talk was directed at them... he actually apologized twice for that misunderstanding
 
#78
I tried to explain to him this will have far reaching implications, in exactly that Chevy vs Ford context.

What they are basically saying by demanding "free and unbiased" speech is, you can't post negative reviews. If a company feels they are being unfairly singled out by any forum or group of individuals, they demand to be able to "control" that balance and the flow of dialog.

While case law in this fact has been discussed with Angie's List, Yelp, Tom Martino, etc, he is asking we re-litigate this and if he cannot be allowed to enter in a forum, despite the forum rules, and plead his case, then we should not be able to speak our minds. Our opinions will be subject to a companies feelings on the matter.

He says he was blocked from addressing the comments, but these customers already gave up trying to plead their case directly to him. So they turned here, however because we allow a safe haven for issues to be posted, and really for issues from anyone, that he feels is a conspiracy to hurt him. He sent people over between 2010 & 2012 to try and slide positive comments in, and everyone knows what the rules were then. So that to him was discrimination, never mind he threatened us and demanded the previous threads removed, he felt he could just "reset" the clock and he wanted his propaganda promoting his customer's positive experiences to stand up alone, free from the previous posts on the subject.

This part of why I say it effects you... if he gets his way, you can no longer voice a negative opinion without him demanding equal time to fill the spaces with his positive ones. Even if those positives ones are at the direction of the company.
 
#80
Direct Quote from the "Revised" Article by Paul Helinski of GunsAmerica:

"My article on Friday was meant to nip the cascade of bad press for TR in the bud, and it worked."

Editor's Comment: Is he serious? It worked? What a joke! It's clear that Paul Helinski's involvement in this case back fired. He literally has burned gun powder on his face. Ironically, he probably made matters worse for David Rooney of Tactical Rifles. This has become a total public relations Fuck Up.

"In this case both parties mostly agree on the facts, and they are just viewing them in different ways. It is a dumb lawsuit and could have been prevented with some communication. Lawyers love egos."

Editor's Comment: Groveling!

"As many have said below, we shouldn’t be wasting our time on it, and this is where my time on it ends."
Paul Helinski@GA

Editor's Comment: Paul, you should have never got involved. This has clearly not been beneficial for you or GunsAmerica. Think before you act.

rxs0
 
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#81
The way I read it, and based off the 3rd party understanding of Rooney on this matter... I am an evil mastermind who has orchestrated these attack on him in a coordinated effort to hurt his business in particular... Not anyone else, just him. That is my focus as best I can determine his thinking in all this is... part of their proof is stuff like uncovering the shills, the fact we tied some of these posters back to him shows my commitment to hurt him.

They won't even acknowledge the other posts on the same subject with the same theme found on other sites. The BBB is on the take, and they can't be trusted, the disgruntled customers have an axe to grind, and behind it all is -------> ME

I'm the guy, playing this quartet like Hendrix, Call me Grand Puppet Master X, the man behind the curtain, the all powerful Wizard of the Internet.

We have 230,000+ (not counting what we prune) threads on this site and currently there are about 3 or 4 negative threads regarding TR.Net and that proves I vehemently promote his downfall. It's a landslide against me, when you consider the Big Binder of Death waiting to drop on me.
 
#84
Direct Quote of "Revised" Article of Paul Helinski of GunsAmerica

"I am deeply sorry to Frank for his perception that word “parasite” was in any way directed toward him. It was not, and I will explain it clearer. There are a few “bloggers” in our gun world that lease themselves onto negative stories just to stir up a bees nest and take credit for it. Their stories are then quoted by dozens of other bloggers, and those stories stay there forever so that when you google someone or something, those stories dominate the landscape. These people are parasites and should be ostracized from our community."

Editor's Comment:
Wrong again Paul Helinski of GunsAmerica. It's called freedom of speech.

I guess you are now referring to us readers of Sniper's Hide as "parasites". That's in addition to you calling us "parrots" and "armchair snipers"! Lovely. Thanks again Paul Helinski for calling out yourself and GunAmerica as haters of free speech.

Keep digging Paul. You are digging yourself deeper and deeper in this shit hole!

Paul, you are trapped in your own lies.

If you don't like Freedom of Speech, move to Russia!

rxs0
 
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#85
Paul Helinski of GunsAmerica accusing Frank of "beating people up for years"

"Oh come on Frank. You just posted a reply to his complaints going back to 2010. As I have said many times here already, your position is very clear on your own website. I assumed, and was correct, that you would reply to the post and it was up several days before we emailed it to our list. Satisfied customers are not shills Frank. You have been beating people up for years and none of us know what your true motives are. David could have handled this better, but we can all handle emotional situations better. You have an ethical responsibility to not abuse your position as a respected leader and world class shooter. I could just as easily say, like your minions here are doing to me, “oh you just attacked him because he didn’t advertise with you!” Your fans believe in you and I hope you don’t let them down when you have to keep track of everything you did and why under oath."
 
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#86
Paul Helinski of GunsAmerica explaining why GunsAmerica has a Better Business Rating = F

"The same parasites who claimed that about me in 2012 reported on this case without contacting David. They expect you and people like you to repeat their opinions because you can’t formulate your own. You proved it back then that you were just a sheep in wolf’s clothing, and you are proving it now.

Do you know what it takes to get a BBB F rating? One negative letter from someone that you fail to answer. The BB is just a business like everyone else. They pay their salaries by using those negative letters from people who have a bug up their buts to recruit BBB members. The people who send those letters are the rainmakers for the their business. Comforting huh!

Journalism is about getting the truth. Frank’s position is very clear on his website. You know, the one that he admits to shutting people out of after he decides to blackball them. He was given the first comment on the story, and lots of subsequent comments. David was not afforded the same on his website."
 
#87
I'm the Grand Puppet Master, even though I didn't start a single thread and barely gave them a passing mention, I coordinated it all... I am the leader of a grand conspiracy to paint TR in a negative light, not just here but across the internet reaching into the minds of the FLA BBB.... It all part of a grand master flash plan.

Today Sea Bass with fricken lasers on their heads, tomorrow Sharks off the Coast of Florida with bazookas ... Soon I will be making a full sized clone of myself, then, oh yes, then, the real suffering will begin.
 
#88
That Cocksu....er ah, individual, grabbed the photos I took last month, and posted here, and posted them on that GA site! He claims he was given permission to post them from Snipers Hide!

I didn't copyright them or anything but I find it hardly likely that he would have spent the last several days shitting on our beloved Hide and then ask permission to use the photos I posted of the kaboom at Manatee!

He also completely missed the point of the thread as well...

That dude is pathological!
 
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#89
Paul Helinski of GunsAmerica accusing Frank of being a bully for personal gain

"But you didn’t make that decision and you won’t make the decision to stop doing that. The issue has nothing to do with the guns themselves of the customer service of TR. It is about a bully abusing his bully pulpit for personal gain."

Editor's Comment:
Frank, what can you possibly gain from this idiotic situation? I have been on this forum for years and yet to see one example of you bullying people or exploiting others for your personal gain. This is absolutely ridiculous. The only thing anyone could accuse you of is your commitment to helping others on this site and hosting a fantastic forum and knowledge base. Too bad you got caught up with someone who is so desperate to blame others for his own failures. This is what happens to those that start the death spiral down the drain. Hang in there and good luck.

rxs0
 
#90
Lowlight said:
I'm the Grand Puppet Master, even though I didn't start a single thread and barely gave them a passing mention, I coordinated it all... I am the leader of a grand conspiracy to paint TR in a negative light, not just here but across the internet reaching into the minds of the FLA BBB.... It all part of a grand master flash plan.

Today Sea Bass with fricken lasers on their heads, tomorrow Sharks off the Coast of Florida with bazookas ... Soon I will be making a full sized clone of myself, then, oh yes, then, the real suffering will begin.
Click to expand...

TR is going to pull an ABC on you and chop that quote into pieces, put it together and leave out any/all context and present it to court as your statement of guilt on a public forum. "I'm the Grand puppet master, it's my master plan to destroy TR through The FL BBB, and on SH".

Just sayin'. Funny shit though, Frank, i'm going to make a sock puppet effigy of you and bring it to the cup for you to walk around and speak to folks through the puppet.

Branden
 
#91
I can be a dick at times, but then again I get a fair amount of unwarranted hate mail too.

Guys come on, break the rules, the member send an alert, we ban them, they get pissed. After a while it wears on you. Then you get the guys who like the forum but just hate me and feel I don't deserve the attention, so they snipe, it all adds up to cranky days.

Then you get guys like Rooney who feel entitled to use this site for their personal gain. Sure it's a business here but I don't put the money above all else by any means.

I don't understand where the idea of entitlement comes from, that some how this is here for them to use. Like the idea it's a wide open space free for all to express themselves as they see fit. As it's US BLM land - internet open space. Weird.

If you read the comments they act like the idea of deleting a post for any reason at all is completely objectionable. Or that because you guys read a line of BS then find out the guy is working the booth at Shot for TR a line was crossed. I didn't flush it out, but clearly it's easy to see. If the members object to shit be shoveled that reflects on me in this case.
 
#94
rxs0 said:
Nice idea.

The only problem is Paul Helinski of GunsAmerica will delete your comment as soon you post it. He is clearly not interested in freedom of speech.

rxs0
Click to expand...

While I disagree with deleting or filtering posts - there is no such thing as freedom of speech on private internet forums. The 1st Amendment only applies to what the gov't can prevent you from doing. It has nothing to do with what individuals and companies can do to limit your speech. Both GA and Frank can limit your speech all they want. As many have said on repeated occasions: "Frank's playground, Frank's rules".

And this is not to suggest I'm taking sides on this in anyway. What little I read over on the other site suggests this is your typical harassment litigation that will go nowhere. If you put out a shitty product, expect people to complain about it. Waah. All I'm saying is that it is a common misunderstanding that Freedom of Speech exists on an internet forum. If you don't believe me..... do or say something to Frank to piss him off and watch how long you last around here. Which is well within his right to do as the owner of SH. It is what it is.....
 
#99
Lowlight said:
Today Sea Bass with fricken lasers on their heads, tomorrow Sharks off the Coast of Florida with bazookas ... Soon I will be making a full sized clone of myself, then, oh yes, then, the real suffering will begin.
Click to expand...

Frank, if you don't show up to your first meeting with them in that grey suite with a bald cat and white shoes……… I will be really disappointed. You also need to answer every question with your pinky finger to your mouth and every answer should be "ONE MEEEEELLION DOLLARS"

:D
 
#100
Read the story, comments and BBB reports. Used to receive the GunsAmerica emails (emphasis on used to). Decided to "unsubscribe" and sent an email with explanation. The article reminds me of a piece you would expect to see on MSNBC. Did not realize anyone on the gun owner side of the fence would try to enact a type of the "Fairness Doctorine" crap you hear liberals whining about. Let a dealer friend of mine who uses GA know about the story and got a WTF response (think he's done with them). GA really should check out what their "writers" put out. You got my support Lowlight.
 
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