Guy with a gun saves lives in Arvada CO

[thejeep]

They (Arvada) don't have body cams, so if that's what you're waiting on like it's some kind of end all it's not coming.

I believe it came from one of their briefings. I'm not saying that makes it any less tragic, it's still a shit sandwich.

Here's the difference, though, LE has been getting active shooter training since Columbine, I'm glad CCW is starting to get involved but let's be realistic...

IF they're going to step up in these situations, a 10hr class and a permit ain't going to cut it.

This situations are so dangerous I'm not sure we have the vocabulary to describe them and to expect citizens with a day or a weekend of training to jump into them and interact with LE seamlessly and without tragedy is fucking ridiculous.

I'd like to see more citizens invited to LE active shooter training events and set scenarios like this up. Give the citizens opportunities for stress innoculation if they plan to respond and make sure they put the gun down when the shooting is over so when the cops come charging in they're not mistaken for the bad guy.

IMO there's no way to train this away, it's always going to happen, you just flat out can't be holding a gun when everyone shows up looking for a bad guy holding a gun

So what you’re saying is that along with an actual hard copy of a ccw permit the state will issue a movie grade George Floyd costume that would be dogooders will don before arriving on the scene. As I see it the waters will be further muddied by shall issue vs may issue.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I think when society is re-made, we should just make it the law that everybody has to carry a pistol and a rifle around with them, that way no police (if we have them) get scared by seeing somebody with a gun. Also bad guys would wind up deader quicker.
(And we'll make proficiency in shooting a mandatory part of high school education.)

 

[LawnMM]

It almost seems like the safest bet would be for a samaritan to stop the active shooter and then shoot any cop he sees until its safe to escape. This way he evades the corrupt justice system the police will sure put him in the mercy of. If he is identified and/or arrested later he can just say he was in the heat of the moment and feared for his life just as the officers claim.

Fuck you, Wade

 

[thejeep]

^Equal rights!

 

[Threadcutter308]

 

[deersniper]

Some animals are more equal than others.

ending qualified immunity would be a good start.



you teach that there is no / low repercussions for shooting dogs and random “civilians” you’re going to get more of it.




I don’t know why we are even having this conversation. Rule of law has been dead for a long long time in this country

 

[MarinePMI]

Cops look at everyone they encounter as a threat. It should be automatic for the general population to do the same especially in today’s USA. What’s good for them is good for us.

The story at hand is sad for all that were involved. I’m not discounting this. I was merely evening up the playing field using the same set of rules applied to all and obviously it pissed off the statists. Imagine that.

I'd suggest you refrain from responding to this thread any further.

 

[MTB doc]

It almost seems like the safest bet would be for a samaritan to stop the active shooter and then shoot any cop he sees until its safe to escape. This way he evades the corrupt justice system the police will sure put him in the mercy of. If he is identified and/or arrested later he can just say he was in the heat of the moment and feared for his life just as the officers claim.

Wade, you have defined yourself as incredibly unintellectual as well as an absolute liability to this website that @lowlight has worked incredibly hard to build.

It's past the time of where you need to go.

 

[powdahound76]

You can just log out and not come back vs bitching about how a private forum mistreats you…..

You wont be missed.

 

[MTB doc]

"It almost seems like the safest bet would be for a samaritan to stop the active shooter and then shoot any cop..."

Fuck you Wade. You absolutely suggested shooting cops.

This is not about 'discussion'. This is about your mental health problems.

You need to go.

 

[deersniper]

You might as well keep expecting the same laws/ rules to apply to people like Hillary Clinton al sharpton or the brown shirts/antifa

We are in a post rule of law world. Only thing you can do is keep off the Stasi/kgb radar

 

[Nik H]

That means put the fuckin gun down or away IMMEDIATELY after you put that fucker down and get your hands up.

This is what I was taught to do a LONG time ago

 

[NoDopes]

What happened to "drop your gun"?
Convenient no body cams.
Cop just assumed he was the bad guy and dropped him. You never know if there is a second shooter. That guy who killed a shooter in walmart ended up getting tagged by the partner behind him.
That one command would have ended any doubt immediately. Poor training. I don't care if your adrenaline is up. It's sad that cop the other day got popped by the guy coming out his front door with zero warning, but you can just go popping people yourself. Wtf.

 

[deersniper]

Cop just assumed he was the bad guy and dropped him

“Every civilian is a criminal who hasn’t been caught yet”

 

[LawnMM]

This is what I was taught to do a LONG time ago

What happened to "drop your gun"?
Convenient no body cams.
Cop just assumed he was the bad guy and dropped him. You never know if there is a second shooter. That guy who killed a shooter in walmart ended up getting tagged by the partner behind him.
That one command would have ended any doubt immediately. Poor training. I don't care if your adrenaline is up. It's sad that cop the other day got popped by the guy coming out his front door with zero warning, but you can just go popping people yourself. Wtf.

Who's to say they did? There's an excellent chance the Samaritan was challenged but having just been in a shooting himself, suffering from things like tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, not to mention ears ringing from gunfire, he never heard it.

How many times do you challenge a man holding a gun standing over bodies before enough is enough? What if it's the shooter? Do you know how long it takes to react to somebody who turns and fires on you?

The whole situation is a shit sandwich. I find it humorous that the crowd that loves to say "the cops need more training" even when cops already have thousands of hours of training... those people overlook the CCW crowd jumping into these situations with what? 10hrs of classroom and a half hour on the range?

 

[deersniper]

people overlook the CCW crowd jumping into these situations with what? 10hrs of classroom and a half hour on the range?

Those people that shoot the wrong person far less than the cops?

no one says they need more training. They need more accountability. You know. Like the civilians have

 

[NoDopes]

How many times do you challenge a man holding a gun standing over bodies before enough is enough?

When you reach that point turn in your badge.

 

[Skunk]

They need more accountability.

Do you already know the outcome of the investigation that'll ensue? The cop could be indicted....

There is an incredible, unprecedented amount of oversight and accountability in LE these days. I mean, a cop was just sentenced for murder when his arrestee died of a drug overdose....

 

[LawnMM]

When you reach that point turn in your badge.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Gotta love it when people start ASSuming and interjecting their ideas into a story. There was a show on many years ago and one of the key catch phrases was.... Just the facts!! Interjecting your bullshit into the scenario and then making assumptions? Good grief.
I guess I will wait for the story the city puts out and see if that meshes with what witnesses say.

 

[7.62willdo]

Is there video of the shooting of the good guy? Independent I witness accounts of the fact he was holding the ar15? Perhaps bodycam footage..... asking for a friend

 

[Kamerad]

Decision making skills under stress has become my primary focus when it comes to emergent situations. More than weapon skills or gear, TCCC skills or gear, etc.

I certainly don’t have enough information about this specific incident to conclude the officer made a bad decision. Hopefully the investigations find all relevant information and find justice for all involved.

RIP Officer Beesley and John Hurley

 

[deersniper]

There is an incredible, unprecedented amount of oversight and accountability in LE these days. I mean, a cop was just sentenced

Lol are you high?

thar verdict was a direct result of 100 years of the opposite

 

[Skunk]

Lol are you high?

thar verdict was a direct result of 100 years of the opposite

Well, I guess with your law enforcement experience you know about the lack of accountability. And, sorry, I forgot this shooting took place so long ago.

 

[7.62willdo]

Lol are you high?

thar verdict was a direct result of 100 years of the opposite

I disagree, he was found guilty by a jury which was an extension of the mob and sentenced by a judge that was an extension of the mob
From the time he was indicted there was no other possible outcome

 

[Skunk]

I disagree, he was found guilty by a jury which was an extension of the mob and sentenced by a judge that was an extension of the mob
From the time he was indicted there was no other possible outcome

Exactly.. the mob of racist people that've been brewing since the Obama/Holder era.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Read the statement you quoted. It’s called playing devil’s advocate. If you think that was a call of violence then you have the intellectual problem. Why did you subscribe to follow my posts if you don’t care for my reasoning. I got a new subscriber notice from you.

Edit to add: “It almost seems like” is not the same as saying “People should”. One is being critical while the other is a demand or suggestion. Big difference.

I thought you were told to shut up. Now, you have become the bad cop working for corrupt governments. You're words. Talking out of your ass.

 

[deersniper]

Well, I guess with your law enforcement experience you know about the lack of accountability. And, sorry, I forgot this shooting took place so long ago.

If your not a cop you can’t judge their criminality.

I don’t need to br a painter to spot bad work

I don’t need to be a Cop to notice all the times they maim/murder etc dogs/people/COTUS and gets no or a very reduced penalty.

And that respect my authority/ all civilians are criminals / “win “ every interaction that’s drilled into their heads causes most of the problems.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I disagree, he was found guilty by a jury which was an extension of the mob and sentenced by a judge that was an extension of the mob
From the time he was indicted there was no other possible outcome

The Mafia had nothing to do with this.

 

[deersniper]

I disagree, he was found guilty by a jury which was an extension of the mob and sentenced by a judge that was an extension of the mob
From the time he was indicted there was no other possible outcome

If they would have just put him in the patrol car instead of sitting on his head for 10 minutes cause they have small Dick syndrome and had to “win” against the crowd yelling to let him up they would probably be free today

 

[Skunk]

View attachment 7655586
If your not a cop you can’t judge their criminality.

I don’t need to br a painter to spot bad work

I don’t need to be a Cop to notice all the times they maim/murder etc dogs/people/COTUS and gets no or a very reduced penalty.

And that respect my authority/ all civilians are criminals / “win “ every interaction that’s drilled into their heads causes most of the problems.

No, you don't need to be a cop to spot all those things in the media. And, as a tax payer, you sure as hell can judge when a cop, or anyone, has been adjudged as criminal. I'm not saying you shouldn't.

What I'm asking you is, why do you assume there's no accountability? Are you there on the inside to see what goes on in Internal Affairs? You act like because there is not yet a news story saying the cop was wrong and is being charged, there won't be any review/investigation/accountability. Do we not operate on the premise that we are innocent until proven guilty?

Don't make assumptions about what I'm saying/asking.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

No, you don't need to be a cop to spot all those things in the media. And, as a tax payer, you sure as hell can judge when a cop, or anyone, has been adjudged as criminal. I'm not saying you shouldn't.

What I'm asking you is, why do you assume there's no accountability? Are you there on the inside to see what goes on in Internal Affairs? You act like because there is not yet a news story saying the cop was wrong and is being charged, there won't be any review/investigation/accountability. Do we not operate on the premise that we are innocent until proven guilty?

Don't make assumptions about what I'm saying/asking.

So if fired/relieved from his current job for being a POS can he get a job in another town or state?
Most certainly he can and it happens quite often.

 

[deersniper]

No, you don't need to be a cop to spot all those things in the media. And, as a tax payer, you sure as hell can judge when a cop, or anyone, has been adjudged as criminal. I'm not saying you shouldn't.

What I'm asking you is, why do you assume there's no accountability? Are you there on the inside to see what goes on in Internal Affairs? You act like because there is not yet a news story saying the cop was wrong and is being charged, there won't be any review/investigation/accountability. Do we not operate on the premise that we are innocent until proven guilty?

Don't make assumptions about what I'm saying/asking.

Because a “civilian” would get criminal charges and a severe penalty.

not a slap on the wrist , maybe have to move to another agency.
We had one here charged and convicted of assault etc involving shooting at a unarmed person and lying about it after a fender Bender off duty.
know where he is now? Still employed by the same place.

those would be prohibiting offenses for ANYONE else



What do you think would happen to a “regular person” for shooting a dog in some random fenced in backyard? Let alone shooting one of the more equal animal’s police dog



qualified immunity.
Etc
Etc

 

[Skunk]

That depends on the agency that he applies to.
If he's convicted of something, he won't.

 

[deersniper]

That depends on the agency that he applies to.
If he's convicted of something, he won't.

Yet it happens all the time

 

[Skunk]

Because a “civilian” would get criminal charges and a severe penalty.

not a slap on the wrist , maybe have to move to another agency.
We had one here charged and convicted of assault etc involving shooting at a unarmed person and lying about it after a fender Bender off duty.
know where he is now? Still employed by the same place.

those would be prohibiting offenses for ANYONE else

It's a frustrating thing to see happen, I know. But, there's an appeals process and all that shit, too. As long as that officer's case is wrapped up in appeals, he gets to keep some type of job with the dept. I know of one here where I'm at that got paid $90k/yr to sit home and drink beer while waiting for his appeals process to work out. That went on for almost two yrs before the PD was able to finally shit-can him.

All I'm saying is the accountability process/oversight is there, albeit slow and inefficient.

 

[Skunk]

Yet it happens all the time

If you say so. I haven't personally seen it happen.

 

[deersniper]

It's a frustrating thing to see happen, I know. But, there's an appeals process and all that shit, too. As long as that officer's case is wrapped up in appeals, he gets to keep some type of job with the dept. I know of one here where I'm at that got paid $90k/yr to sit home and drink beer while waiting for his appeals process to work out. That went on for almost two yrs before the PD was able to finally shit-can him.

All I'm saying is the accountability process/oversight is there, albeit slow and inefficient.

No. It’s been like 5 years. They gave him a risk management job or some crap where he doesn’t interact with the public.

HE WAS OFFDUTY, SHOT AT A UNARMED OERSON AND LIED ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES


^they don’t win any friends covering up for criminals.

 

[NoDopes]

Cop in Dallas murdered a guy plain as day and lied about it.. few days later a security cam feed was released and showed it. He would have gotten away with it otherwise. I have very little faith in a situation like this.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

If you say so. I haven't personally seen it happen.

Nice. That sounds like choid! I didn't personally see it so......

 

[Skunk]

Nice. That sounds like choid! I didn't personally see it so......

Dude, I know your mind is already made up and you're too obstinate to event talk with.

You guys may be right about the cop who shot Hurley. He may be a colossal shit-bag who showed up to duty drunk and is all kinds of fucked up. But, we don't know that. I'm just not as ready as you are to make an uninformed guilty judgement.

 

[Skunk]

No. It’s been like 5 years. They gave him a risk management job or some crap where he doesn’t interact with the public.

HE WAS OFFDUTY, SHOT AT A UNARMED OERSON AND LIED ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES


^they don’t win any friends covering up for criminals.

Well, that sucks. I understand your opinion of that situation...

 

[deersniper]

Asking for accountability and laws to apply to everyone is probably considered “cop bashing” in this post America SH.

y’all have fun.


conservatives back in the day be like :

Ok

 

[308pirate]

I have a solution for all of you pissed off that a cop shot Hurley by mistake.

Don't be a Hurley. When bullets fly, and not in your direction, just get up and leave.

Leave the fighting to others. Just go the other way and you'll be safe.

 

[NoDopes]

Until it's your family you are defending... How about cops not shoot people indiscriminately?

 

[308pirate]

Until it's your family you are defending... How about cops not shoot people indiscriminately?

Hurley was holding a rifle at the place where an active shooter with a rifle was reported.

While the shot was taken in error, it was not taken indiscriminately.

The military, with all its training and technology, still suffers from fratricide. What makes you think you should be immune from it in a situation with even less information?

Instead of ranting about what cops should or shouldn't do worry about you can do to improve your odds. Start with not picking up weapons from others. Continue to putting yours away as soon as you don't need it. Go on to making yourself as inconspicuous as possible after the fighting is done.

 

[NoDopes]

Should have said irresponsibly... but saying people shouldn't use their CCW because they might get shot by cops isn't the answer.
Fog of war probably shouldn't be compared to civilian policing.. but maybe that's part of the problem. Not entirely the police's fault as well, but still demands a high responsibility. I'd post another video example, but I've done enough bashing today.

 

[308pirate]

saying people shouldn't use their CCW because they might get shot by cops isn't the answer.

That's not what I said. I said don't join the fight if you're not willing to face ALL of the risks.

It is absolutely legitimate to consider "the fog of war" in the context of a civilian gunfight (which includes the police since they are civilians). The psychological and physiological responses are much the same and the confusion (which is what the fog of war is) is always a factor.

 

[7.62willdo]

Hurley was holding a rifle at the place where an active shooter with a rifle was reported.

While the shot was taken in error, it was not taken indiscriminately.

The military, with all its training and technology, still suffers from fratricide. What makes you think you should be immune from it in a situation with even less information?

Instead of ranting about what cops should or shouldn't do worry about you can do to improve your odds. Start with not picking up weapons from others. Continue to putting yours away as soon as you don't need it. Go on to making yourself as inconspicuous as possible after the fighting is done.

Is there video of the shooting of the good guy? Independent I witness accounts of the fact he was holding the ar15? Perhaps bodycam footage..... asking for a friend..........waiting for an answer

 

[308pirate]

Is there video of the shooting of the good guy? Independent I witness accounts of the fact he was holding the ar15? Perhaps bodycam footage..... asking for a friend..........waiting for an answer

“Samaritan” who killed Arvada gunman was shot by officer while holding suspect’s AR-15, police say

An Arvada police officer fatally shot “good Samaritan” Johnny Hurley in Olde Town after Hurley killed a gunman who wanted to kill as many Arvada police officers as possible, investigato…

www.denverpost.com