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Guy with a gun saves lives in Arvada CO
- Thread starter worvin
- Start date
Show's how much you paid attention or that your reading comprehension is at a first grade level. Go back a few posts and you will see that I said I would reserve an opinion until all the facts are known.
Keep up!!!
Additionally you are confusing two different things. The topic I quoted you on was about shitbird cops that get fired from one city and go across the state line or fifty miles down the street to another department.
Keep up!!!
So what if he was holding an AR-15?
Story from 2018:
www.ajc.com
Story from 2018:
"He had an AR-15, but so did I." Sutherland Springs hero hailed by NRA
DALLAS - As horrific as the mass shooting at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Tex. was, it could have been even worse had it not been for Stephen Willeford and his AR-15.
So what if he was holding an AR-15?
Story from 2018:
"He had an AR-15, but so did I." Sutherland Springs hero hailed by NRA
DALLAS - As horrific as the mass shooting at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Tex. was, it could have been even worse had it not been for Stephen Willeford and his AR-15.
Why don't list for us all of the aspects in which both of these incidents differed?
What does a friendly fire casualty have to do with covid?
Someone else nailed it with their statement that your intellect isn't very deep
If you make yourself fit the description of the bad guy to a T do you think that helps or hurts your chances of living till dinner time?So what if he was holding an AR-15?
Story from 2018:
"He had an AR-15, but so did I." Sutherland Springs hero hailed by NRA
DALLAS - As horrific as the mass shooting at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Tex. was, it could have been even worse had it not been for Stephen Willeford and his AR-15.
IF...I would have been Mr. Hurley, my weapon would be holstered and my hands would have been up, period. He made the fatal mistake, if true, picking the perps rifle up, was a bad move on his part. If anything, kicking it away from the perp, would have sufficed. I feel sorry for that man, he was a hero. I'm just a dumbass old man tho. Mac
I don't pay that much attention to you, I admit. But, if you think I believe you, as one of the usual "contributors" to LE debate threads, haven't already made up your mind, I'll have to see it first.
I know what you were talking about, and I already said I'd never personally seen a shitbird cop get fired and then go to work for another agency. I've arrested several shitbird cops for one thing or another and never seen them go back to law enforcement after getting out of prison. If they've been fired from their agency for something not warranting arrest, I wouldn't know anything about them other than what the media might report.
Not that the hiring/firing of shitbirds has anything to do with the topic of this thread, but let's hear about your first-hand "knowledge."
What has happened, in this incident, that leads you to believe that police are more equal than the general public?
Are you able to contain your commentary to the issue at hand, without diverging into another rant? It has to be difficult for you but try.
No answers there.....
“Samaritan” who killed Arvada gunman was shot by officer while holding suspect’s AR-15, police say
An Arvada police officer fatally shot “good Samaritan” Johnny Hurley in Olde Town after Hurley killed a gunman who wanted to kill as many Arvada police officers as possible, investigato…www.denverpost.com
Well well , first google search brings out a laundry list.
You should pull your head out of the sand. Just cuz you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
You should pull your head out of the sand. Just cuz you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Hint: if you don't click the link. It still won't exist in your world.It doesn't happen, he's full of shit. If you're fired for anything in LE it will come up in the background and you'll be denied.
What does 'sometimes' happen is a doucher will resign and try to move elsewhere with some degree of success... but termination? WTFE
lol old habits are hard to break. Gonna be a rough road for a while.
And worst part is the national police force that replaces the locals is going to be a lot worse.
LolIt doesn't happen, he's full of shit. If you're fired for anything in LE it will come up in the background and you'll be denied.
What does 'sometimes' happen is a doucher will resign and try to move elsewhere with some degree of success... but termination? WTFE
wrong
Surely you can read the link address? Or am I asking too much?
Try this one
www.cbsnews.com
Hint: it won't exist if you don't read it
Try this one
Florida police officer fired for the 7th time says he’ll get his job back again
A south Florida cop who can’t remember whether he’s been fired seven times or eight is out of a job again — but believes he’ll get it back, again, too. The Daily Beast repor…
www.nydailynews.com
Or this one
How fired police officers often end up back on the job
Police chiefs discuss how their judgments are superseded, what they're doing to change laws in law enforcement
www.cbsnews.com
I never said it didn't exist, just that I hadn't seen it. Other than obscure web articles, do you have personal knowledge of it happening? If you do, great. I don't, so I won't make suppositions as to why things do/don't happen.
You just want them to drop anyone holding a gun?
So many of you are trained on breaching tactics. You forget response is not breaching.
During a response they're supposed to be trained to assess, deescalate, and administer force.
The "I need to go home" tactics are destroying the reputation of any of the food guys.
Do you read your own articles? They're not being fired and getting jobs elsewhere.Surely you can read the link address? Or am I asking too much?
Try this one
Florida police officer fired for the 7th time says he’ll get his job back again
A south Florida cop who can’t remember whether he’s been fired seven times or eight is out of a job again — but believes he’ll get it back, again, too. The Daily Beast repor…www.nydailynews.com
Or this one
Hint: it won't exist if you don't read itHow fired police officers often end up back on the job
Police chiefs discuss how their judgments are superseded, what they're doing to change laws in law enforcement
They're being disciplined, which can include termination (firing) and the discipline is being overturned by city officials responsible for overseeing the discipline... because they deem it inappropriate.
You should pick better examples to support your suppositions.
You aren’t kidding. Restaurants suck with all the normal staff on enhanced$$ unemployment
Hmmm, looks like your comfortable having your head up your ass. Fired, discipline, tomato toematoe, six of one a half dozen of the other. They are POS' that gives the job a bad image. If you are good with working with them, congratulations you deserve each other.
Now is that moment where you act like a retard with a new drum and start pounding the shit out of the report button. Don't forget to use the trigger words .... Cop Hater.
You can find hundreds of examples if you want. But alas, you really don't want to cross the line. Go ahead and defend the bullshit.
Now is that moment where you act like a retard with a new drum and start pounding the shit out of the report button. Don't forget to use the trigger words .... Cop Hater.
Nah, now's when I stop clicking "read ignored content"
There's a reason I don't normally respond to your posts, they don't show up for me unless I go out of my way to look at your bullshit
Now I remember why you're blocked.
There's a reason I don't normally respond to your posts, they don't show up for me unless I go out of my way to look at your bullshit
Now I remember why you're blocked.
De-escalate? In the middle of an active shooter scene?
Where do you people come up with shit like this?
GTFO
As I said earlier; the same or worse than liberals demanding we shoot people in the arms and legs to “disable” them. Completely ignorant to the real world.
...too much time on Twitter Academy of Police Tactics me thinks....
they did assess the situation, they responded to an active shooting an saw a man holding a gun...
now without seeing body cam footage, seeing the demeanor of the victim, seeing how he reacted when police arrived, you have 0 basis for claiming the police were negligent in this shooting.
if the body cam footage is released and it shows Hurley putting the gun down, and they open up on him anyways, then you might have a case......although frankly, im not sure why he would be picking up the AR15 in the first case
but if it shows him turning around to see whos coming, and he flags the officers, well then thats justifiable.
but in every FoF training class ive taken, they emphasize that yes, you, as a good samaritan, might get mistaken for a bad guy, and get shot for your efforts....and that that is a risk you either are, or are not, willing to take.
Then that kind of dilutes the argument we use to say if more people carried there would be less mass shootings. I get what youre saying but I prefer more people respond like Hurley. Maybe more training needs to be provided to both cops and people carrying a weapon.
What kind of argument are you trying to make? I'm not sure you know either...
I've told you a couple times now that I don't have any personal experience with cops being fired and rehired by another agency. You, apparently don't either, which is fine.
As always, you get combative when you've got nothing else.
Please see my post a few down from the one you quoted. That should explain what I am saying a bit better.
What sort of training do people need? Do they really be told they shouldn't pick up a weapon that was used in a crime? To begin with it's tampering with evidence. It's unintentional but it's disturbing evidence none the less.
What sort of training do cops need? That if they see a guy with a rifle at a scene where a cop killer was reported to have a rifle they should ask him to put it down first?
Please see my post a few down from the one you quoted. That should explain what I am saying a bit better.
What sort of training do people need? Do they really be told they shouldn't pick up a weapon that was used in a crime? To begin with it's tampering with evidence. It's unintentional but it's disturbing evidence none the less.
What sort of training do cops need? That if they see a guy with a rifle at a scene where a cop killer was reported to have a rifle they should ask him to put it down first?
Ah okay, so go into it knowing you may get shot as well. I think that's a reasonable take.
Yes they should. Common sense isn't all that common anymore. The truth of the matter is people will respond to how they are trained. If you train the individual to not pick up the perps gun and drop his own over and over again eventually it will be second nature (yes I know it sounds stupid).
If the guy isn't flagging the officer, then yes they should have asked him to put it down first. I really don't want to comment further on what the cops should or shouldn't have done because im not a cop and don't want to pretend I know shit about these types of situations. I also don't have all the info.
There have been plenty of reports that cops are using their own money to fund training due to lack of funding. I don't think it would be unreasonable to include more training on situations such as these.
Shitty situation all around and I hope both families find peace. The dude that shot the cop can rot.
Bwaahaha, combative? Nice.
You are a joke. If you haven't seen it personally it doesn't exist?
What was it you said earlier of reading comprehension?
If not combative, what? You're not being reasonable.
This, right here, is a perfect example of your ignorance. I’m in agreement that this is a tragedy, but there are some SERIOUS flaws in your logic here.
First - We know NOTHING about the actual situation yet. Everyone needs to shut their damn mouths until we know more. There is no possible way you can know that anyone except the initial bad guy deserved prison time in this situation.
Secondly - Let’s assume the situation was what nearly everyone is assuming it was; the officer, having been dispatched to an active shooter with a long gun, rushed in trying to stop loss of life as current active shooter training dictates. He ended up shooting a man holding a rifle standing over or near a dead/dying body. Can’t say a damn thing about any warnings he gave or didn’t give yet, but as I’ve previously stated you should read some deadly force caselaw for a better understanding of LE’s responsibilities there. If the officer actually heard shots fired while he was on scene, there is a 0% chance he would be legally required to issue any warnings.
For ANYONE who had that same information and shot a man under those same circumstances, there would be no way a prosecutor could expect to convict that person of a crime. Acting on faulty information in good faith or, as we’re assuming in this case, a shitstorm of unfortunate events while acting in good faith does not provide sufficient standing for a criminal offense. Awful but lawful.
All the above to end by saying that you children are set in your world view and nothing will change that. If you think know better and can do better, go put in an application and show us how the job should be done. Essentially, put up or shut up.
A grown up person that can't deal. And a leo? Bwaahaha.Nah, now's when I stop clicking "read ignored content"
There's a reason I don't normally respond to your posts, they don't show up for me unless I go out of my way to look at your bullshit
Now I remember why you're blocked.
I made a factual statement and you called bullshit. I linked articles from the Washington Post and other national news to support the statement and you can't deal with it. So instead of putting on your big boy panties you lash out at me? Be a pickle and dill with it.
You can either create the change you want to see…or keep bitching aimlessly on the internet. Totally up to you.
I chose my path. Considering you didn’t respond to the entire rest of my post, I’m pretty sure I know what you’re gonna do…
Funny. I was gonna tag you into this thread just to see what you would say, but you beat me to it all on your own.
No way this is true...
Were all speculating, but fuck, it's the internet. But my assumptions are based on higher probability that just assuming a cop didnt fuck up as a knee jerk reaction. I feel bad for both of them.
If the law says a cop can shoot anybody holding a gun just because he heard gunfire in the area, thats really fucked up. I'm guessing thats also untrue.
If the cop didn’t ID himself and just simply shot, unfortunately he’s as guilty as the shooter himself. Maybe not murder, but manslaughter for sure. Like you said, you can’t just shoot everybody that has a gun. If you are unsure you better find a way to be sure.
tragic all the way around. No good deed goes unpunished.
On the flip side of the coin, if the cop ID'd himself, and the guy turned to see who it was, and accidentally flagged the officers...then it's really hard to blame the officer for shooting.
It's an unfortunate event, and I think we can all safely say with the info we have right now, that this guy is a hero.
But just because a "good guy" got shot, doesn't necessarily mean the officer acted inappropriately.
Without seeing the body cam footage, all we are doing is swinging our dicks at each other with 0 actual Information.
Members here keep walking the same path. The path is worn so deep that the travelers can't see over the top edge. Arriving at conclusions before being able to examine the available evidence is a fool's errand.
When the evidence is made available and the authorities have arrived at their conclusions, then and only then, is it reasonable to comment regarding the process and conclusions.
Let's say you choose to get involved. There are three perps who have killed half the people in the mall and are now working on the second half. You are an utter gladiator and mow through them like John Wick on steroids. You have fired thirty-one rounds and forensics establishes that every round was on target. Unfortunately, while skull shooting one of the dirt-bags, there was a through and through and that round entered the orbital socket of "Johnny, the best guy in the world" and turned his brain matter into oatmeal. Johnny has a wife, four kids and two adorable labs that are service dogs. One is for Johnny because he is a multiple amputee and the other is for his darling daughter who happens to be a diabetic and the dog provides early warning for low blood sugars. Unfortunately Johnny, falls across the backs of both labs and it is necessary to euthanize the animals.
You may navigate the risks of criminal prosecution without incident. You are probably still going to be responsible for attorney's fees whether you have to mount a defense or not. That's criminal court. Next is civil court. Johnny's family is going to be contacted by gazillion attorneys who are going to offer their services for a cut of the pie or maybe for nothing more than a chance to see their name in lights. If you end up having to defend yourself in the civil courts I hope you have a rich uncle that is a cash register. Remember, this is the same country where, a few years ago, a woman was awarded a million or two for spilling hot coffee in her nether regions.
When the evidence is made available and the authorities have arrived at their conclusions, then and only then, is it reasonable to comment regarding the process and conclusions.
I have had a carry permit for over forty years. I have also been an utter cynic, as regards most things, for my entire adult life. I adopted @308pirate position long ago. Would I defend myself? The answer is yes. Would I defend others? The answer is again yes but it is a qualified yes. That qualification represents only the very few people who I have already accepted responsibility for. Any round fired would only be loosed to protect the withdrawal of the aforementioned individuals. Everybody else is on their own.
Let's say you choose to get involved. There are three perps who have killed half the people in the mall and are now working on the second half. You are an utter gladiator and mow through them like John Wick on steroids. You have fired thirty-one rounds and forensics establishes that every round was on target. Unfortunately, while skull shooting one of the dirt-bags, there was a through and through and that round entered the orbital socket of "Johnny, the best guy in the world" and turned his brain matter into oatmeal. Johnny has a wife, four kids and two adorable labs that are service dogs. One is for Johnny because he is a multiple amputee and the other is for his darling daughter who happens to be a diabetic and the dog provides early warning for low blood sugars. Unfortunately Johnny, falls across the backs of both labs and it is necessary to euthanize the animals.
You may navigate the risks of criminal prosecution without incident. You are probably still going to be responsible for attorney's fees whether you have to mount a defense or not. That's criminal court. Next is civil court. Johnny's family is going to be contacted by gazillion attorneys who are going to offer their services for a cut of the pie or maybe for nothing more than a chance to see their name in lights. If you end up having to defend yourself in the civil courts I hope you have a rich uncle that is a cash register. Remember, this is the same country where, a few years ago, a woman was awarded a million or two for spilling hot coffee in her nether regions.
go to their website and read how they decided "not to have them", it's law now, they will have to comply.
cost?
at least one life.
I'm sure you're aware of the CISA training material, don't you think a "good beginning" would be for that to be disclosed RE: active shooter training rather than submit for clearance to get the full .gov public record document?
V1 wasn't redacted, now they ask for credentials and cause.
I'm sorry, you are just plain wrong.IMO there's no way to train this away, it's always going to happen, you just flat out can't be holding a gun when everyone shows up looking for a bad guy holding a gun
IMHO the key factor in the third decedent in Arvada is:
the first decadent was LE.
Criminals shooting criminals doesn't produce the same "heightened response", in my experience.
First person story from Tucson:
I called in a drive-by shooting and kidnapping in front of an apartment building I own.
Rifle on chest slung in patrol position
TPD responded and took "cover" (maybe concealment
behind their opened doorThe officer's training allowed him to verbally interact and assess the situation
I'm here typing this so it must be "possible"
shitty training produces shitty results
either we're "all in this together", or not
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