H4350: typical lot to lot verification

[capreppy]

I have an 8# jug of H4350 bought well before the hysteria. I am going to do load development on Hornady 140gr Amax and Sierra 142 SMK for a 260 Rem.

When this jug runs out, I'll buy another (have 2x 8# jugs on back order at MSS). How much variation should I expect? What does everyone normally do with a new lot?

 

[excaliber]

Anytime you change lots, reduce your powder charge.

 

[capreppy]

Anytime you change lots, reduce your powder charge.

Would you redo the ladders, but with a narrower band based on current accuracy load.

 

[Jaxdialation]

No need to repeat ladders. Just load to same velocity as prior batch.

This assumes you have access to a chrony

And I have found enough difference in 4350 batches to suggest reworking the load is worth while.

 

[capreppy]

No need to repeat ladders. Just load to same velocity as prior batch.

This assumes you have access to a chrony

And I have found enough difference in 4350 batches to suggest reworking the load is worth while.

I have access to a Chrony and will check speeds once load development is done.

 

[rcamuglia]

Shoot a ladder every time you change lots

I was running 41.3 grains in the Creedmoor and pressure was at 42.5 with the last lot. This new lot my load is 43.6 grains and pressure was found at 45 grains....

 

[BuzzBoss915]

When dealing with something as potentially hazardous as smokeless gunpowder, wouldn't you think the manufacturers have a competent quality control (QC) department? They record the batch numbers and dates and I would be surprised if they did not take and test samples during the production run. You have expectations that one lot will be as nearly the same as they can make it, which should be good enough for the handloader.

Therefore, you MAY find a very slight variation in burning rate, from one jug to the next, produced on different dates, but the difference will be very small and would only affect max loads, (opinion) measured in tenths of a grain. No matter how you measure your performance, pressure signs or recorded velocity, there will be a slight variation day to day, even with the SAME components. But, with a new lot number, it's still going to be a very slight difference and not worth another ladder test. That does not mean you shouldn't carefully approach a maximum charge, you always should approach a max charge with caution. But, once you get there, I have strong confidence that the performance will be very nearly the same as previous. Accuracy and velocity. BB

edit: concerning the previous post. Were the conditions the same? Ambient temperature, etc?

 

[capreppy]

When dealing with something as potentially hazardous as smokeless gunpowder, wouldn't you think the manufacturers have a competent quality control (QC) department? They record the batch numbers and dates and I would be surprised if they did not take and test samples during the production run. You have expectations that one lot will be as nearly the same as they can make it, which should be good enough for the handloader.

Therefore, you MAY find a very slight variation in burning rate, from one jug to the next, produced on different dates, but the difference will be very small and would only affect max loads, (opinion) measured in tenths of a grain. No matter how you measure your performance, pressure signs or recorded velocity, there will be a slight variation day to day, even with the SAME components. But, with a new lot number, it's still going to be a very slight difference and not worth another ladder test. That does not mean you shouldn't carefully approach a maximum charge, you always should approach a max charge with caution. But, once you get there, I have strong confidence that the performance will be very nearly the same as previous. Accuracy and velocity. BB

edit: concerning the previous post. Were the conditions the same? Ambient temperature, etc?

I would HOPE that lot to lot variations would be minimized, but the main reason I asked the question is the "significant" (yes that term is relative) difference in lots of Varget, at least from what I've read. I was curious to see if others had experienced similar lot to lot variations in H4350.

If lot to lot is pretty close, I can deal with that. A tenth here or there is fine. 1 or more grains.....well that is a significant difference in my book.

 

[blurry6]

This may sound like heresy, but in these tough times, when all I can get my hands on are the random encounters with 1-lb jugs of powder at a local gun shops, I've taken to 'compounding' my newly acquired powder by mixing it in with what's left of my 8-lb jug,... I've done this three times (two different lots, three lots total) now over the last three months with what I have left of Varget and my velocity and grouping (<0.5-MOA) have remained constant without any noticeable shift in impact. I figure it's better to compound what I have, work with that as 'one lot', rather than have to start from scratch when I finally finished off my 8-lb jug,... only to start over after finishing the 1-lb,... then the other 1-lb,...etc.... just a thought.

Ry

PS - I've noticed that H4350 has a little more variation from lot to lot, but not a ton. Here's a load you can try for your 260REM,... I've used this load (43.0gr H4350) and a slight variation (43.3gr H4350) with two (2) 26" barrels: one from Rock Creek and the other from Benchmark Barrels and they both shoot lights-out! Here's a group:

5-Shots: 43.0gr H4350 w/139gr Lapua Scenars shot prone with bipod

 

[bjay]

This may sound like heresy, but in these tough times, when all I can get my hands on are the random encounters with 1-lb jugs of powder at a local gun shops, I've taken to 'compounding' my newly acquired powder by mixing it in with what's left of my 8-lb jug,... I've done this three times (two different lots, three lots total) now over the last three months with what I have left of Varget and my velocity and grouping (<0.5-MOA) have remained constant without any noticeable shift in impact. I figure it's better to compound what I have, work with that as 'one lot', rather than have to start from scratch when I finally finished off my 8-lb jug,... only to start over after finishing the 1-lb,... then the other 1-lb,...etc.... just a thought.

Ry

PS - I've noticed that H4350 has a little more variation from lot to lot, but not a ton. Here's a load you can try for your 260REM,... I've used this load (43.0gr H4350) and a slight variation (43.3gr H4350) with two (2) 26" barrels: one from Rock Creek and the other from Benchmark Barrels and they both shoot lights-out! Here's a group:

5-Shots: 43.0gr H4350 w/139gr Lapua Scenars shot prone with bipod
View attachment 5081

What twist barrel length and oal on rounds?

 

[blurry6]

1:8-twist / 2.768" OAL,... give or take,... YMMV

Ry

 

[bjay]

1:8-twist / 2.768" OAL,... give or take,... YMMV

Ry

tnx ry, by the way have tried farther distance? my 260 been using 4350 im about on my 4 (from a case that has 10 1lb)so far id never seen any variation i baught 2lb from a friend and it shoot pretty much the same from my lot

 

[blurry6]

Oh yeah,... the farthest I've shot it 'officially' was out to 1250-yrds on a 100% IPSC,... 5/6 hits. Winds were only 3-mph coming straight from 9-O'clock. Both barrels are definitely shooters and the 260REM in general is pretty forgiving to reload for. Only thing I don't like about my own rifle is the Rem 700 action,... kind of a rattle-can that's prone to extraction failures,... not fun when running a timed stage.

Ry

 

[bjay]

Oh yeah,... the farthest I've shot it 'officially' was out to 1250-yrds on a 100% IPSC,... 5/6 hits. Winds were only 3-mph coming straight from 9-O'clock. Both barrels are definitely shooters and the 260REM in general is pretty forgiving to reload for. Only thing I don't like about my own rifle is the Rem 700 action,... kind of a rattle-can that's prone to extraction failures,... not fun when running a timed stage.

Ry

i do have custom 260 myself with bartlein barrel im like majority here "never get satisfy what the rifl offer" one more question mate i shot mine 500yd ill phtos beloew is 1 3/8 (.263 moa)center to center loaded 5 shot oal 2.87 42.8h4350 139 scenar lapua brass fd210m primer.my question how much of a diff from my load to you load .2grain diff will it matter/ im just thinking is it worth of trying that extra .2 grain from you load or should i stick to mine by the way i got 24' barrel lenth

 

[blurry6]

Damn! That's some pretty sweet shooting! In regard to adjusting your load,... Personally, I wouldn't try to fix what ain't broken. A few 1/10th's of a grain difference isn't going to do anything for your velocity,... BUT, you never know,.. you might have hit a pretty forgiving node that will allow you to bump up the powder,... but I really don't think it will buy you anything,... other than using more powder Again, NICE SHOOTING!

Ry

 

[bjay]

Damn! That's some pretty sweet shooting! In regard to adjusting your load,... Personally, I wouldn't try to fix what ain't broken. A few 1/10th's of a grain difference isn't going to do anything for your velocity,... BUT, you never know,.. you might have hit a pretty forgiving node that will allow you to bump up the powder,... but I really don't think it will buy you anything,... other than using more powder Again, NICE SHOOTING!

Ry

thats why i asked how far you shot it..hmm i guess ill keep it there by the way heres a buddys feild .(i wish i have my own place like this) the first target 100 yard where we zeroed theres a round plate almost to the ground 200yd and theres 2 more one round one 12x12 inches on right those are 498 yard right to the burm.those our final target.and heres the rifle first photos zoomed in

 

[capreppy]

1:8-twist / 2.768" OAL,... give or take,... YMMV

I am running mine at AI Mag Length of 2.85. The idfference (0.1") seems to be pretty significant.

Still actually need to complete load development (just got rifle in and doing workups this weekend or early next week).

 

[blurry6]

thats why i asked how far you shot it..hmm i guess ill keep it there by the way heres a buddys feild .(i wish i have my own place like this) the first target 100 yard where we zeroed theres a round plate almost to the ground 200yd and theres 2 more one round one 12x12 inches on right those are 498 yard right to the burm.those our final target.and heres the rifle first photos zoomed in
View attachment 5087
View attachment 5084View attachment 5085

That would be fantastic to have a resource like that,...

 

[blurry6]

I am running mine at AI Mag Length of 2.85. The idfference (0.1") seems to be pretty significant.

Still actually need to complete load development (just got rifle in and doing workups this weekend or early next week).

I tried running out to AI mag length (I have mine on an AICS), and while it didn't HATE them,... it didn't shoot all that great either (aprox: 0.75-1.00 MOA),... Backing them off seemed to be the trick. At least if I have to chase the lands, I'll have some room to do it with this load and still be able to utilize my magazine,... When that runs its' course,... I'll figure out something else.

Ry

 

[capreppy]

I tried running out to AI mag length (I have mine on an AICS), and while it didn't HATE them,... it didn't shoot all that great either (aprox: 0.75-1.00 MOA),... Backing them off seemed to be the trick. At least if I have to chase the lands, I'll have some room to do it with this load and still be able to utilize my magazine,... When that runs its' course,... I'll figure out something else.

Ry

Good info. I'll keep that in mind as I do load development.

 

[turbo54]

This may sound like heresy, but in these tough times, when all I can get my hands on are the random encounters with 1-lb jugs of powder at a local gun shops, I've taken to 'compounding' my newly acquired powder by mixing it in with what's left of my 8-lb jug,...

Nothing wrong at all with mixing different lot numbers of the same powder together.

 

[bjay]

Nothing wrong at all with mixing different lot numbers of the same powder together.

+1 i do it all the time

 

[capreppy]

Well just cancelled my order at MSS. Picked up 20# at PV. Should be all the same lot number. If I had a tub large enough, I would mix all of it together with the 8# I have now and call it done.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Nothing wrong at all with mixing different lot numbers of the same powder together.

I've done it. BB