H4831 vs H4831SC "Carolina Load" 6.5CM

[yo-yo]

Hi all -
I was following a recipe for something called a "Carolina Load" for my 6.5CM, except I wanted to use H4831 instead of the H4831SC that was suggested. This is my first time reloading anything, and I don't yet know a lot about various different powders (except from a chart of fast vs. slow burners), but this particular recipe called for 44.3gr of the H4831SC.
I also realized that I bought the wrong bullet for the recipe, but I figured the overall fitment between the two might be minimal, so I proceeded (I have a Hornady 140 gr ELD Match, instead of the suggested 140 gr SST).
Long story short...I cannot fit 44.3 gr of powder in the case, and still install the bullet to COL of 2.800". It's such a compressed load that the bullet cannot be seated that deep and the bullet is mildly damaged when I attempt to seat it at that COL.
Is the physical shape of the power's granule quite different between these two powders? Is the Short Cut powder much smaller in size? I can't find a lot of information about the powder differences.
Thanks!

 

[straightshooter1]

Yes, the Short Cut is smaller in size, allowing you to get more of it into a particular case volume than the regular cut. With H4831SC, you should be able to get at 44.3 grs into your case's COAL of 2.800" without much, if any, powder compression (depending on your particular case volume of the brass you're using).

 

[yo-yo]

Yes, the Short Cut is smaller in size, allowing you to get more of it into a particular case volume than the regular cut. With H4831SC, you should be able to get at 44.3 grs into your case's COAL of 2.800" without much, if any, powder compression (depending on your particular case volume of the brass you're using).

Interesting. Thanks!
Crazy…is there a place I can better research detailed powder attributes to better understand how all these powders differ? I don’t see a lot of technical data on seller sites.

 

[supercorndogs]

Looks like i was using 45.7 h4831sc in hornady brass with the 143eld at around 2.85. I don't rmeber if I was crunching. Might have been too hot. It was my MO at the time. LOL. I switch to h4350 since. What is your jump at 2.8 oal?

 

[whatsupdoc]

H4831 is a marginal powder for the 6.5 creed and compressed loads will usually cause extreme seating depth variation
of the bullet. Compressed loads provide zero benefit.

 

[straightshooter1]

Looks like i was using 45.7 h4831sc in hornady brass with the 143eld at around 2.85. I don't rmeber if I was crunching. Might have been too hot. It was my MO at the time. LOL. I switch to h4350 since. What is your jump at 2.8 oal?

Hmmm??? Why do you ask about jump? Are you assuming his chamber's freebore is the same as yours or that the lands is the same distance after throat erosion?

 

[supercorndogs]

I ask because he didn't provide that information and it's important how much powder he can for in the case. I would expect him to be able to run longer than 2.8 because both my 6.5 creed barrels were around .02 off at 2.85 and I see a lot of others running 2.84-2.9 range.

I liked h4831sc in my 26" barrel but not so much in my 21". Ended up really liking varget and 123s. I was shooting them both when h4350 was unavailable.

 

[straightshooter1]

I ask because he didn't provide that information and it's important how much powder he can for in the case. I would expect him to be able to run longer than 2.8 because both my 6.5 creed barrels were around .02 off at 2.85 and I see a lot of others running 2.84-2.9 range.

I liked h4831sc in my 26" barrel but not so much in my 21". Ended up really liking varget and 123s. I was shooting them both when h4350 was unavailable.

I have little doubt that he can go longer, like at least out to mag length.

I would have asked about distance to lands rather than jump since amount of jump could be any length depending on a chambers freebore and throat erosion. Like, .020 off means 2.850 for you, but could mean 2.890 for me. This focus on jump tends to be confusing to new reloaders in trying to determine actual seating depths being referred to when realizing that chambers are simply not likely to be the same size.

 

[supercorndogs]

He said he was at 2.8 so his jump plus 2.8 would have told how much room he had.

I am not understanding I though your jump was your distance to the lands.

 

[BobinNC]

Hi all -
I was following a recipe for something called a "Carolina Load" for my 6.5CM, except I wanted to use H4831 instead of the H4831SC that was suggested. This is my first time reloading anything, and I don't yet know a lot about various different powders (except from a chart of fast vs. slow burners), but this particular recipe called for 44.3gr of the H4831SC.
I also realized that I bought the wrong bullet for the recipe, but I figured the overall fitment between the two might be minimal, so I proceeded (I have a Hornady 140 gr ELD Match, instead of the suggested 140 gr SST).
Long story short...I cannot fit 44.3 gr of powder in the case, and still install the bullet to COL of 2.800". It's such a compressed load that the bullet cannot be seated that deep and the bullet is mildly damaged when I attempt to seat it at that COL.
Is the physical shape of the power's granule quite different between these two powders? Is the Short Cut powder much smaller in size? I can't find a lot of information about the powder differences.
Thanks!

Without getting too preachy I see some flaws in your reloading approach:

Never, ever use anybody's "recipe" without working up to it from below, for 'your' rifle with 'your' components.

Number two, your initial coal should consider the following:

The longest coal that will fit and feed from your mag; that one, does not jam the bullet into your lands; and two, keeps at least one caliber (in your case .264") of bearing surface inside your case neck. (the boat tail, if any, doesn't count).

Note: Longer bullet seating means more room for powder in your case. This may or may not be a good thing until you try it.

What someone else did, with their rifle and their load, is irrelevant until you test first in your rifle, using your components, and worked up from below.

 

[straightshooter1]

He said he was at 2.8 so his jump plus 2.8 would have told how much room he had.

I am not understanding I though your jump was your distance to the lands.

Jump is distance FROM the lands, not to the lands.

When I measure all the way "to" the lands that number for CBTO is 2.278. Then when I'm .020 "off" or from the lands, or the amount of jump, the CBTO measurement is 2.258.

I guess one can think of it as the distance your jumping "to" the lands. But, that's also how far you are "from" the lands.

Amount of jump (like .020) just doesn't tell anything about the CBTO or COAL of the cartridge because of differences in chamber specs.

 

[supercorndogs]

My distance from Denver is exactly the same as my distance to Denver. One can think of it that way because it is the same thing.

 

[straightshooter1]

My distance from Denver is exactly the same as my distance to Denver. One can think of it that way because it is the same thing.

Knowing the distance to or from the lands tells you what about a cartridges CBTO or COAL?

 

[supercorndogs]

Knowing the distance to or from the lands tells you what about a cartridges CBTO or COAL?

He is loading at 2.8. If he is .06 off. He can seat 2.85 and be around .01 off.

 

[straightshooter1]

He is loading at 2.8. If he is .06 off. He can seat 2.85 and be around .01 off.

OK, I see. You're just guessing "if" he's .060 off when loading to COAL of 2.800.