Night Vision Halo LR not holding zero

[slim023]

I checked zero again Friday and it was off 2” at 100. I had to move it 4 numbers to get it on with 2 movements not moving the group at all. I hit power to save coordinates and it went back to shooting screen. I then started doing that rechecking numbers and then powering off. The reticle is moving when you watch it when changing numbers. Saturday it was 1” off consistently with a 7 shot group. I moved it again and left it powered on and missed 3 shots at coyotes at 200-275. I got home and checked zero and it was off 3” at 100. Sunday I put my kahles 6-24 on it and shot groups, beat the heck out of the gun, scope and it shot consistent 3/4” groups. The lever mount was about as tight as I could get it on the thermal. Screws on bottom are snug. Running a anker battery pack.
I shoot PRS matches and got 3rd Sunday out of 59 shooters. I understand trigger control and can do more than my part.
All sighting and shooting with thermal are standing with gun on Really Right Stuff Tripod so there is not a difference in pressure or recoil impulse imparted in gun.
I really believe it is some sort of scope problem

anyone else had a problem? Or just me?

 

[Docsherm]

I checked zero again Friday and it was off 2” at 100. I had to move it 4 numbers to get it on with 2 movements not moving the group at all. I hit power to save coordinates and it went back to shooting screen. I then started doing that rechecking numbers and then powering off. The reticle is moving when you watch it when changing numbers. Saturday it was 1” off consistently with a 7 shot group. I moved it again and left it powered on and missed 3 shots at coyotes at 200-275. I got home and checked zero and it was off 3” at 100. Sunday I put my kahles 6-24 on it and shot groups, beat the heck out of the gun, scope and it shot consistent 3/4” groups. The lever mount was about as tight as I could get it on the thermal. Screws on bottom are snug. Running a anker battery pack.
I shoot PRS matches and got 3rd Sunday out of 59 shooters. I understand trigger control and can do more than my part.
All sighting and shooting with thermal are standing with gun on Really Right Stuff Tripod so there is not a difference in pressure or recoil impulse imparted in gun.
I really believe it is some sort of scope problem

anyone else had a problem? Or just me?

I have one and mine is solid. I zeroed it, and it hasn't moved one bit.

What rail do you have it on?

 

[Shifty6BR]

If you truly feel its a unit issue, why not just get in touch with N Vision? I personally have not dealt with their cs but from what I have read they seem to be more than willing to help their customer base. A little searching will show that they have a rep who lurks around here as well.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk buddy, but I never understood why people ask the folks on the forums first with their issues rather than just simply contacting the mfg right off. Personally when I have issues or a hint of an issue with an item I immediately get in touch with cs rather than just sitting there wondering.

Rant aside, seriously I wish you luck and happy 2020.

 

[PlinkIt]

Doesn't sound like you have much of a question if the unit has an issue...

I'd make sure if I understood if the zero values were not saving, or if it was just wondering somehow before I called.

I can tell you that the CS is great from my experience sending a unit back, and from calling in with a few questions. So as long as you feel confident the scope is an issue call them, and they will likely have you fixed in short order.

 

[slim023]

I have sent them a email with no response yet as they are closed till after the new year. I have seen the same thing with some pulsars. They are notorious about drifting zeros. Truly half of my friends fight them and replacements from them are doing the same. Some get lucky and never have a problem or the drift is minimal. I bought a trijicon because after 3 pulsars that wouldn't hold i gave up. My reap never gave me a minutes trouble. But the menu and joystick suck under pressure and cold gloved hands. I assumed that the halo was going to be as trouble free and a much better menu system.
The reason for my post was to see if i was the only one to have problems, as i understand that it probably is.
Or if by posting this some others would say i am having similar issues and this is a problematic scope issue.
Then i would just buy a mk3 60 to finish out the coyote season.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Myself and 4 buddies have halo lr and to my knowledge no one has had any poi shift. I have seen some variation going from prone to tripod zero but I don’t believe that correlated to a mechanical shift. It was only 1 moa anyhow. I was nervous about this unit and zero retention much like you, I’ve seen the pulsars doing crazy shit for a few years. I know the halo has a completely different material for the housing tho. Much the same as the mil units like the lwts. I also had a reap and it gave me zero issues with zero retention.

To ease my mind zero’d my unit at 40f and I ran the halo cold sink’d at 14f all night then checked my zero at 100. It was for all intents and purpose right on for tripod standing at 100yd.

I’ve felt that if I see something weird I am going to switch to the bobro mount. The one thing I feel about the halo is it doesn’t have enough real estate underneath of it for the mount. I think that could be improved but thats just my opinion.

 

[slim023]

Thanks! From everything ive read they seem to be problem free. But if you read around about the pulsars people act like you are the only person to have a issue and can't shoot!!

 

[WhereNow&How]

Thanks! From everything ive read they seem to be problem free. But if you read around about the pulsars people act like you are the only person to have a issue and can't shoot!!

Maybe that is because they are trying to "pawn off" that Pulsar Trail Model that has the Chinese made plastic housing (that shrinks and swells due to temperature change) to others so they can get something that does not have a POA/POI issue.

However, for a lot of the Hog hunters that start out wacking their first Hogs at around 50 to 75 yards and after that are shooting running Hogs it probably has not been that big of an issue for them.

 

[dang472]

The mount interface was one of the first things I looked at. N-Vision did a good job of dovetailing the mount. It keys in well so the screws aren’t the only thing keeping everything tight. My buddy’s ATN Thor has just a flat surface on the scope and a few small countersunk screws through the mount to handle recoil and side to side movement. His has already come loose.

 

[Docsherm]

Thanks! From everything ive read they seem to be problem free. But if you read around about the pulsars people act like you are the only person to have a issue and can't shoot!!

What rail is it on?

 

[slim023]

It has the factory ADM mount

 

[Docsherm]

It has the factory ADM mount

What rail do you have on whatever weapon you are shooting it on?

 

[slim023]

It is the pic rail on the upper of the AR

 

[Docsherm]

It is the pic rail on the upper of the AR

On the receiver?

 

[slim023]

Yes. Seekins upper and lower

 

[Docsherm]

Yes. Seekins upper and lower

Judt so I understand, you are putting the laser directly on the upper receiver. Is that correct?

I am assuming that you have no other optics on this rifle.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Judt so I understand, you are putting the laser directly on the upper receiver. Is that correct?

I am assuming that you have no other optics on this rifle.

Do you even know wtf Is being discussed here? It’s not a laser it’s a thermal weapon sight bud. Yes he’s mounting it to the machined in picatiny rail on the upper receiver of the weapon.

 

[Docsherm]

Do you even know wtf Is being discussed here? It’s not a laser it’s a thermal weapon sight bud. Yes he’s mounting it to the machined in picatiny rail on the upper receiver of the weapon.

Wow, i could have sworn he was taking about an IR laser........ now that makes much more sence. ......oops.

 

[Wmguy]

I checked zero again Friday and it was off 2” at 100. I had to move it 4 numbers to get it on with 2 movements not moving the group at all. I hit power to save coordinates and it went back to shooting screen. I then started doing that rechecking numbers and then powering off. The reticle is moving when you watch it when changing numbers. Saturday it was 1” off consistently with a 7 shot group. I moved it again and left it powered on and missed 3 shots at coyotes at 200-275. I got home and checked zero and it was off 3” at 100. Sunday I put my kahles 6-24 on it and shot groups, beat the heck out of the gun, scope and it shot consistent 3/4” groups. The lever mount was about as tight as I could get it on the thermal. Screws on bottom are snug. Running a anker battery pack.
I shoot PRS matches and got 3rd Sunday out of 59 shooters. I understand trigger control and can do more than my part.
All sighting and shooting with thermal are standing with gun on Really Right Stuff Tripod so there is not a difference in pressure or recoil impulse imparted in gun.
I really believe it is some sort of scope problem

anyone else had a problem? Or just me?

Did you end up getting yours figured out? I took mine out tonight, heated steel up at 300 and 385 to confirm it was me missing a dog at 350 and not the gun. So I laid down held .6 at 300 and it was low. Had to actually hold under to hit a 6 in disk at 300. Then 385 was supposed to 1.2, I ended up. Needing .5. ok so zero must be off after I check, double checked and burnt 20 rounds the week before making sure I felt it was spot on, so checked it tonight and it was high 2.5 in....ok so adjust, the numbers would move, the reticle would move, I'd save the zero and then cycle through the zoom and I could watch the reticle jump and in the same position that I needed to correct the first time around after I've already saved the correction, so then I would confirm and now my zero would be off the opposite direction....this thing is making me wonder what the heck is going on. It doesn't seem to be moving in a repeatable path, i can adjust it and it doesn't seem to move for correction then jump a couple inches.

 

[slim023]

I sent mine back to n vision for inspection.
Did you check zero at each magnification level? I did not but wonder if that is part of the problem. The zero is not the same at each zoom level?

 

[Wmguy]

I haven't yet, but I'll check it today to see if I can tell if there's a difference. Did they say if anything was wrong with yours yet?

 

[slim023]

ups still shows it in transit to them. hopefully i will have a answer mid week

 

[Max_R]

@slim023 Zero is the same at all magnification levels.

I sent mine back to n vision for inspection.
Did you check zero at each magnification level? I did not but wonder if that is part of the problem. The zero is not the same at each zoom level?

 

[slim023]

I understand that. But with the zero problems that some are having it makes me wonder if that could be the issue. I did not try that before I sent mine back

 

[wigwamitus]

tag

 

[Killswitch Engage]

ran mine hard in in 14f weather last night with shots out to 300y without issue so its retaining zero well. I have around 200rds on it so far.

 

[slim023]

Got my scope back on Tuesday and was able to check zero, tracking and holding. Beat the scope/gun around, turned scope on and off, disconnected power while on, and ran 80rounds through the gun. Shooting great now. Hunted the eastern coyote contest with it over the weekend making 9 kills myself to 280 yds. Clarity and detection beat friends mk3 60mm easily. They were impressed.

 

[wigwamitus]

Can you ask them if they found any issue and if so what it was ???

Is the serial number the same ?? Is it the same scope ??

Thanks !!

( perhaps they just decided to replace it and not even diagnose ... )
( I know trouble - shooting time is expensive ... but if I was N-Vision ... I would really want to know if there was a manufacturing or QA or other systemic issue ... or if it was some sort of "one off" ... a broke part ... or whatever. It "feels" like it ought to be a software issue. But if so, then every unit with that software version should have the same issue. )

 

[slim023]

I asked if they were able to replicate the problem and if so what was wrong.
they just said it was fixed.
I got the same unit back. Serial number is the same and the Velcro is still on the housing.
I was curious myself but they did not want to elaborate. Talked to 2 other halo owners at eastern that were having issues. 1 the clarity was horrible. Looked like a 21micro 320 unit at base mag. 1 was having slight zero shift

 

[WhereNow&How]

Ooops, here we go. Hopefully it is just some birthing pains and it all gets straightened out.

Slap that baby on the ass and make him take a big gulp of air and cry.

 

[wigwamitus]

"birthing pains ... glitches" ... words that ultimately mean "we don't know" ...

Sometimes, I agree, it is better just to fix something ... but other times it is good to ask and answer the "Five Why's" ... I used to follow the olde "root cause analysis" ... but I switched to "Five Whys" about 10 years ago ... seems to be a more methodical approach.

If there is a systemic issue, you want to root it out and fix it.

 

[wigwamitus]

Maybe they just fixed it because too many people were at SHOT to analyze. But if they just fixed it, then probably they refreshed the software (which some people call "firmware" these days ). Swapping out parts would've taken longer, I would think.

Maybe slim023 got a bad software release ? And maybe only he got it. IDK.

 

[slim023]

I understand there are issues and I believe it’s the best scope going. But there Q&A might need to be a little tighter. Maybe there overwhelmed at the orders? Thermal seems to be something NO supplier has great QA with so there has to be reasons.
I expected a little better being a government contract supplier for years. But regardless I love the scope!

 

[slim023]

shot this afternoon and checked zero on halo. When i powered it on it had no crosshairs and i believe it was back to factory settings. no zeros saved, display options... It had 4 new energizer ultimate lithium in it when i unplugged the anker pack last weekend and they still show full charge. I reset everything back to my preference and had saved zero coordinates on my phone. down 6 left 3. today to get it back centered i ended up down 11 right 1. The scope never moved off the rifle. It was killing coyotes at 280yds when i shut it down sunday morning. Hard to have confidence in this!

 

[wigwamitus]

Hopefully when Max gets back from "vacation" (er SHOT) he can dive in and help get this fixed and let us know what the problem is/was.

 

[car16smg]

Just a thought...but could this issue be caused by “malware” issues from the rechargeable battery packs some are using? I’d be interested to know if those units affected were all using rechargeable battery packs.

 

[PlinkIt]

I hadn't heard of this but that would make sense if the power supply had some form of communication protocol that was driving the units nuts

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Just a thought...but could this issue be caused by “malware” issues from the rechargeable battery packs some are using? I’d be interested to know if those units affected were all using rechargeable battery packs.

I know of a unit that basically did what slims just did and he was using a power pack. this is an interesting theory.

 

[car16smg]

I know of a unit that basically did what slims just did and he was using a power pack. this is an interesting theory.

Some years ago, I had a dollar store iPhone charger cable that when I plugged it into my unlocked phone, made it go absolutely haywire. The phone would open various apps and send Snapchats all on its own. Since then, I don’t use generic chargers. I put generic rechargeable battery packs in the same category. That said, I will only use batteries in my Halo and have had no issues with zero shift to date. Ymmv

 

[slim023]

Interesting theory’s

 

[knuckleballz]

Slim023 could you test with just on board new batteries and eliminate the external battery pack as a possibility.

 

[Max_R]

Back from the Shot Show...

I checked the report on this scope. It was not a software issue but a mechanical problem that we were able to fix without replacement of the scope housing. As a result, the serial number and velcro stayed the same

Can you ask them if they found any issue and if so what it was ???

Is the serial number the same ?? Is it the same scope ??

Thanks !!

( perhaps they just decided to replace it and not even diagnose ... )
( I know trouble - shooting time is expensive ... but if I was N-Vision ... I would really want to know if there was a manufacturing or QA or other systemic issue ... or if it was some sort of "one off" ... a broke part ... or whatever. It "feels" like it ought to be a software issue. But if so, then every unit with that software version should have the same issue. )

 

[Max_R]

@slim023 this sounds puzzling. While I _may_ speculate about reasons why your scope got reset back to the factory settings (good you saved your reticle numbers on your phone!), I really don't like the fact that your zero shifted. It can be only due to mechanical issues and considering your previous history it absolutely should not happen. If you have not done so already, can you, please, call N-Vision (781-505-8360) and ask for an RMA number + shipping label? I really want us to take a very close look at your scope.

shot this afternoon and checked zero on halo. When i powered it on it had no crosshairs and i believe it was back to factory settings. no zeros saved, display options... It had 4 new energizer ultimate lithium in it when i unplugged the anker pack last weekend and they still show full charge. I reset everything back to my preference and had saved zero coordinates on my phone. down 6 left 3. today to get it back centered i ended up down 11 right 1. The scope never moved off the rifle. It was killing coyotes at 280yds when i shut it down sunday morning...

 

[Max_R]

@car16smg it's highly unlikely that Halo scopes can be affected by any kind of malware. The processor and software that are used in Halo are not a common target for malware attacks.

The much more frequent cause of problems with external battery packs is that voltage from some battery packs drops dramatically if not shuts down completely for a moment under recoil. And Halo scopes don't like it. Unfortunately, it's not always possible to gracefully recover from the power drop/loss. This can lead to all sorts of problems with memory (loss of configuration parameters, for example), a white screen that can only be fixed by power cycling the unit, etc.

Just a thought...but could this issue be caused by “malware” issues from the rechargeable battery packs some are using? I’d be interested to know if those units affected were all using rechargeable battery packs.

 

[dang472]

I’ve been running an Anker 10K since I got the LR. Stupid question, but does the Halo always default to external battery if one is plugged in? I notice if I plug the battery pack in, the scope turns on. If I leave the pack plugged in and turn the scope on it doesn’t give me any indication it’s running on auxiliary power.

 

[Max_R]

@dang472 yes, the Halo/Halo-LR always default to the external power. Even more, when the external power is connected the core is always running. Turning Halo off while it's connected to the external power only turns off the display and the processor but the core is still on.

I’ve been running an Anker 10K since I got the LR. Stupid question, but does the Halo always default to external battery if one is plugged in? I notice if I plug the battery pack in, the scope turns on. If I leave the pack plugged in and turn the scope on it doesn’t give me any indication it’s running on auxiliary power.

 

[dang472]

Well that’s good to know. That explains why my battery pack was dead after I forgot to unplug it.

 

[PlinkIt]

Reading this gives me more questions... I've only been using 123s, but have been trying to decide on rechargeables

@Max_R I'm curious if you guys have been seeing some connection with issues with certain battery packs causing some issues, then do you guys have some "preferred" pack suggestions or possibly a list of ones to avoid that you have seen issues with?

Less issue by going for RCR123 as a rechargable option vs the external pack?...

Having not used external power on one of these units but hearing that the core stays running and screen just powers down makes me wonder a coupe things about the "start up" vs "wake up"... Do those of you running external power need less time to "wake up" vs "start up" your unit or do you really need to NUC again on this "wake up"

 

[Killswitch Engage]

ive been running anker candy bar type 6700mah without issue for a couple months. lots of rounds with it and never a glitch. I do keep batteries in my unit as well. I don't know why I just feel like its a good idea.

I would think it would prevent any power glitch from recoil should that ever happen.

 

[slim023]

I am using the square anker 10k and also keep a set of 123 installed. I am keeping the scope for at least this week if it will keep holding zero. I am missing not killing dogs and have a tournament this weekend. I talked with Chris from n vision yesterday.