Portugal is not to bad, weather is great there. I work with several guys from Portugal. The cost of living I would say is probably not much less than the U.S. though. Spain is a different place all toghether. High unemployment, high crime. Really not much good to say about it.
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Has anyone thought of leaving the US for greener pastures?
- Thread starter Shooter McGavin
- Start date
I've known a lot of ex-pats who left for the Carribean/South America. Very few lasted more than a few years.
If you're an English only gringo from the USA and you refuse to learn [or cannot learn] Portuguese [for Brazil] or Spanish [for the rest of Latin America] don't even bother.
Also, it is an entirely different world with a different culture. There is no "can do" attitude, things often don't get done, they don't get done in a timely manner, and nobody will share your big city American sense of urgency.
Most Americans also have an absurdly privileged inflated view of the importance of human life, which is a stark contrast to the Latin American casual indifference to horrendous violence and dangerously neglected infrastructure. If a road crumbles or a bridge collapses in Bolivia or Brazil, nobody really cares. Americans believe in rounding all sharp edges and putting children in protective bubbles. Latin Americans don't share those views.
If a criminal was just shot dead by police, the locals will step over the body and go about their business. If somebody just got beaten to death by a mob because they were drunk and hit a toddler with their car, locals will step over the body and go about their business. It is just another day in Latin America with another dead Latin in the street. Life doesn't hold anywhere near the same value in Latin America as it does in North America. Keep in mind Brazilian police kill around 10,000 people per year, while about 800-1200 Brazilian police are killed each year. This is a level of violence that dwarfs what the USA experienced in Afghanistan. More people were murdered in Brazil from 2011-2020 than died in the Syrian Civil War. Brazil tends to have about 60,000 to 80,000 murders per year.
The presence of armed security inside EVERY grocery store in a place such as Brazil or Paraguay is enough to startle most Americans. Police tactical units and military police teams being deployed as "basic security" in fire-team and squad sized elements in the business districts of major cities is also another matter that most Americans cannot wrap their minds around.
Very few Americans have what it takes to integrate into Latin America. You just have to be able to shrug and go with the flow.
The typical American goes down there, doesn't know more than ten words of the local language, barely knows how to order a beer, acts like a big shot because they get a $3,000 per month pension from their union job and maybe $1,500 per month in social security, and then takes every opportunity to tell the locals how much better the USA is. Well then go back to the USA!
I would go there, have heard some hilarious expat stories though.
Oh fuck that's like half the recent retirees here in Arizona.
I will pull one line from your posting.
The majority of comments here are hinged on how conditions are in America "Today". 10 years ago I relocated to Montana. Never would I have dreamed there would have been so many negative changes over that time frame. So, for the younger people with another 30 years in front of them, do some research on how "conditions" here in America could change. I know some sharp 30 - 40 year olds who are building some very simple businesses in countries that could be considered "borderline" living conditions. For many shit hole communities, the only way go go is to improve. Yes, a person will have to get off the couch, gather some financing, turn off the streaming movies and get rid of the EV...... America is in a deep hole that will take at least 30 years to dig out of.... There will be much suffering.
Having lived in Europe for a bit, Portugal and Spain are high on our list to live. In fact, we just returned from Portugal last month with the family (I am not Portuguese - it should be noted that having been to every European country, Portugal is probably #1 as most family friendly country in Europe).
Good food, people are weirdly nice, excellent public transportation services, good healthcare, a very educated public, relative lower cost of living when compared to the rest of Western Europe, etc.
Ever been? Cheap to live like a king. But also littered with Americans and Australians, who also are f*ing up the place for the locals, as well.
Politically, it's a very corrupt country. Socially, some of the nicest people on the planet.
I believe the cheap living has been flooded with wealthy Europeans fleeing their high cost homes. Now the locals are getting priced out of their hoods
100%
If I was very wealthy, we would settle in Portugal, then have a nice villa on the coast of Morocco and surf and fish all day.
The US was getting too expensive. So this artist relocated to France for a slower-paced life
Buddy of mine moved to Valledupar in Columbia near the ocean about 4 years ago. This guy lives it up over there on a pretty small pension. The women think he's loaded which is hilarious by our standards over here. He absolutely loves it.
Reading between the lines, she's an artist who isn't very popular or successful, likely living off of alimony and other forms of USD not dependent upon being in the USA.
If you make $30,000 USD per year, you can live a decent lower-middle class life in France, where the average worker makes about $1,600 per month.
Moving out of the US would be like moving from Oregon back to the midwest for me. Sure the cost of living might be great. The midwest, at least Iowa, would have far better politics which would be an added advantage. But the ability for me to do the outdoors activities in wide open spaces would be far more difficult. I've been thinking of moving back to the midwest, but lately I think I'll stay in Oregon for the time being. I may move back when I can't scout/shoot/ hunt by myself anymore. As far as leaving the US? I'll never leave, although winters in Costa Rica fishing for roosterfish sounds pretty good lol.
I don't blame people who want to leave California.
If my Midwestern house were located in the OC or the Bay Area it would probably be a $3,000,000 to $4,000,000 house, for what is a normal middle-middle upper-middle class house in the Midwest.
If it were in the OC and I sold it for $4,000,000 and moved to Montana, Wyoming, or the Midwest in 2015-2019, I could have bought a solid awesome local house for myself for $400,000 and then had enough left over to buy at least 10-15 "normal local starter homes" around the $200,000 price point, which I could have turned into rentals.
Incidentally a lot of Californians did that in Montana, and now local Montana folk who have just come of age, cannot get a basic home and cannot launch their life because Californians have bought up all of the houses.
Fed easy money policies enabled this to happen. Market distortions were created in the real estate market, California real estate is horrifically over-valued and it has resulted in their being able to sell inflated assets and use the money to buy up cheaper assets in the interior.
I expect that an epic real estate crash is coming, with the results being that most homes will lose 60-80% of their value in a short span of time. This crash may come between 2025 and 2030. It will hit some people hard, but that is just how life goes.
I'm not going to be homeless, hungry, or freaking out just because the value of my home goes down 60% or even 80%. Now, if you are holding a dozen homes that you bought as speculative investments, paying $300,000 per hour that you damn well know isn't worth more than $150,000 because you expect to flip them in the next 5 years for $500,000 to $600,000 each, and they go down by 60%, you're pretty much ruined. But when you buy things you believe are already overpriced as speculative investments to hold so you can flip them to somebody else who will pay you twice what you paid, then you have to accept the risks that come with the game.
Society wants to view houses as speculative investments for quick flipping to make a quick buck. That's okay, but society has to be okay with the consequences. When the speculators get wiped out they need to be left to be wiped out, no bail outs.
years ago I bought a pile of guns from an older couple that were retiring to somewhere in Mexico, seems they did not invest wisely and would not afford to live at the level of comfort they wanted in the US,
last year I bought a pile of guns from a lady that did medical billing, she spend a few weeks in Mexico, working with a doctor on how to bill medicare/medicaid for the ex pats living in Mexico, seems there is a lake somewhere with a big ex pat (US) community,
she said the cost of living was dirt cheap, but it was still mexico,
she retired to Myrtle Beach,
FWIW, I met a Army guy that was considering Romania when he retired,
and some other folks that were considering Uraguay,
last year I bought a pile of guns from a lady that did medical billing, she spend a few weeks in Mexico, working with a doctor on how to bill medicare/medicaid for the ex pats living in Mexico, seems there is a lake somewhere with a big ex pat (US) community,
she said the cost of living was dirt cheap, but it was still mexico,
she retired to Myrtle Beach,
FWIW, I met a Army guy that was considering Romania when he retired,
and some other folks that were considering Uraguay,
Uruguay is awesome and has many possibilities, although it is wedged between Brazil and Argentina, which means it is always prone to being hit with spillover problems of crime from either of its giant neighbors.
On some level, the era of Americans retiring to third or second world nations is sort of ending because as the dollar dies, American civil servants who only speak English won't be able to make a life for themselves in a place such as Uruguay or Romania.
If you're a dentist, welder, machinist, doctor, chemist, engineer, etc., you can always do some of that in Uruguay, assuming you also speak basic Spanish, and you can support yourself by working if you have to. If you're a retired high school teacher from Chicago, well that is all well and good until the city of Chicago and state of Illinois go belly up and discharge pension liability in a municipal/state bankruptcy filing.
Mexico? That is all well and good until there is a Leftist revolution followed by land reform. When picking a foreign country to retire to I would ask myself, "do I have a basic command of the language or the ability to gradually learn the language?" along with, "do I have the ability to obtain employment if I need to do some sort of work and have some level of a career to support myself?" If you don't know the language, don't believe yourself able to learn the language, and don't believe you would ever be able to have a halfway decent job there, I wouldn't retire there.
I wouldn't retire to Afghanistan counting on being able to quickly pick up Pashto with a fallback career option of "tribal warlord" or "village chieftain."
I wouldn't move to any Eastern European nation that is a member of NATO unless I wanted to be on the [wrong] side of a coming European-wide continental war. Between Romania and Uruguay I would move to Uruguay. Uruguay is better than any nation in Western Europe. I would prefer Paraguay to France and Uruguay to Germany and certainly Romania.
If you haven't thought about it, you're lying.
If you didn't come to the conclusion that our last stand is here in the US, you aren't thinking.
If you didn't come to the conclusion that our last stand is here in the US, you aren't thinking.
10 years from now, that shit hole town in a foreign country will look like paradise.
10 years from now those watching an old re-run of "Yellowstone" will ask "Was that filmed in a foreign country" ?
Just an FYI
The difference a decade can make. Look into the future.
ATHENS April 18 (Reuters) - A decade ago, Greece was in the throes of a devastating debt crisis marked by years of austerity, hardship and unrest. Now, officials and investors say 2024 could be the year its rebound is finally complete.
The Greek economy is forecast to grow nearly 3% this year, approaching its pre-crisis size of 2009 and far outpacing the euro zone average of 0.8%.
The difference a decade can make. Look into the future.
ATHENS April 18 (Reuters) - A decade ago, Greece was in the throes of a devastating debt crisis marked by years of austerity, hardship and unrest. Now, officials and investors say 2024 could be the year its rebound is finally complete.
The Greek economy is forecast to grow nearly 3% this year, approaching its pre-crisis size of 2009 and far outpacing the euro zone average of 0.8%.
An economy that is only now reaching the size it had fifteen years ago and, in spite of crawling out of a hole grew only 3% - I am struggling to find something to admire.
For comparison's sake, the US economy is $25.44 trillion. In 2009, it was $14.48 trillion, or just a little over half the size. Now imagine that the economy shrank after 2009, down much lower than $14.48 trillion and only now, fifteen years later, was struggling to get back to $14.48 trillion, after a year of 3% growth. Inflation would be the least of our concerns.
Stated another way, the economy almost doubled in the US in that same period of time.
Greece.
For comparison's sake, the US economy is $25.44 trillion. In 2009, it was $14.48 trillion, or just a little over half the size. Now imagine that the economy shrank after 2009, down much lower than $14.48 trillion and only now, fifteen years later, was struggling to get back to $14.48 trillion, after a year of 3% growth. Inflation would be the least of our concerns.
Stated another way, the economy almost doubled in the US in that same period of time.
Greece.
The Lack of Economic Freedom in Greece Is a Tragedy
While Greece has made some progress in restoring its macroeconomic stability and implementing much-needed initial fiscal adjustments since 2009, the highly unproductive public sector accounts for more than 50 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), and the country continues to confront a...
www.heritage.org
Have no wish to leave, besides it will work out one way or the other. Either we will buckle completely, the resistance is ground out by financial and regulatory pressure until they are beaten without firing a shot, and become China part 2, in which case by then I will be old enough to just be a stationery target but it will at least be a honorable death. Option 2 is there will be enough of us to take at least part of the country as our own ruled by our founding principles. There really isn’t a third possibility, the two sides are to far apart to coexist. I will say I like our chances against the Xbox and social media crowd, but it will be a hell of a mess.
NOPE. NOPE. And NOPE X 1000.
This is our home and we are defending it to our last breaths. But of course, America and it's values are not just a country, it is an idea. An undefeatable idea. Even in the worst case scenario if this land was to be completely subjugated, we WILL seize some warlord run borderland area of the world like the Caucasus or North Africa and restart again. There are enough armed Patriots not just here but all over the world to carve an Australia sized state out of the Maghreb and Sahara if need be, and operated like 1880s Texas. Somebody's gotta be that Bowie knife wedged in the globalists' side pinning their right arm to their fucking bowels.
New Richmond Trading Post. Daniel Morgan County, (Formerly Algeria) 2042...
This is our home and we are defending it to our last breaths. But of course, America and it's values are not just a country, it is an idea. An undefeatable idea. Even in the worst case scenario if this land was to be completely subjugated, we WILL seize some warlord run borderland area of the world like the Caucasus or North Africa and restart again. There are enough armed Patriots not just here but all over the world to carve an Australia sized state out of the Maghreb and Sahara if need be, and operated like 1880s Texas. Somebody's gotta be that Bowie knife wedged in the globalists' side pinning their right arm to their fucking bowels.
New Richmond Trading Post. Daniel Morgan County, (Formerly Algeria) 2042...
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6 year old article.The Lack of Economic Freedom in Greece Is a Tragedy
While Greece has made some progress in restoring its macroeconomic stability and implementing much-needed initial fiscal adjustments since 2009, the highly unproductive public sector accounts for more than 50 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), and the country continues to confront a...
Americans Unprepared for Consequences of Freewheeling Federal Spending
While waiting at a red light one day, my then-4-year-old son piped up from his car seat, “Mommy, the government should give everyone a dolphin.” Yikes. How did my 4-year-old come to think of the government as a fairy godmother that could create things out of thin air? Unfortunately, it’s not...
www.heritage.org
LOL. Yeah, they have like totally changed their entire corrupt culture and government since then!
The Lack of Economic Freedom in Greece Is a Tragedy
While Greece has made some progress in restoring its macroeconomic stability and implementing much-needed initial fiscal adjustments since 2009, the highly unproductive public sector accounts for more than 50 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), and the country continues to confront a...
America's debt spending ratio is way worse and they don't provide nearly the same amount of benefits for the citizenry. Pensions? The vast majority of Americans in the private sector will work until they die.
That's not to mention that the EU will leverage debt and trade deals for political reasons.
Yet you ask people in these supposedly "economically inferior" countries like Greece, and I can guarantee you that the overwhelming majority would not change their culture, nationality or history. Never mind the 1st World countries of Europe, the Nordic countries, Asia, etc. They are also much happier than we Americans are, by and large. They live longer, don't have to go broke to get medical care, don't have to spend $100K on a half-assed, worthless college degree, etc. It pains me to say it, because I never thought I would, but the greatest days our country has seen are behind us. I'm just glad I lived through them.
It is not "way worse."
Greece debt to GDP is 170%
US is 123%
So its not even worse.
Moreover, the US economy has doubled, while Greece is struggling to get back to where it was 15 years ago. The US also does not have the numerous problems that plague Greece, such as corruption, overloaded benefit payments ("the same amount of benefits") leading to loss of productivity, unions with a stranglehold, and a socialist law that permits seizure of private property.
There really is not a comparison.
That does not mean that the US is headed in the right direction. Debt to GDP crossed the 100% threshold in 2013, and we just keep growing it. We are definitely going the wrong way and have been for decades. But there is a lot more right here than there is in Greece, even if you seem to like their system of benefits better (those benefits are a big part of Greece's problem, for numerous reasons).
In Europe, two countries explicitly recognize the right to keep and bear arms in their constitutions:
- Czech Republic: The Czech Republic is the only European country where people have a constitutional right to own firearms for self-defense and the protection of others. This right was added to the country’s Charter of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms in 2021123.
- Switzerland: Although Switzerland does not have an explicit constitutional provision regarding the right to bear arms, its longstanding tradition of militia service and widespread gun ownership contributes to a culture where firearm possession is common. Swiss citizens are required to undergo military training and keep their issued firearms at home, which indirectly reflects a recognition of this right.
BTW, we are working on rebuilding the family home in what was called Sudetanland and now Czech. I don't plan to live there but it would be nice to visit more frequently since most of my family still live next to Czech in Bayern.
We had it great, our schools were actually really good and then we instituted "no child left behind" which really translated to "all children drug behind".
Our current schools teach kids to only answer the questions for the tests but not the subjects. Teachers provide what the students specifically need to know to pass a test and only that. Crazy thing is colleges have to teach remedial English because kids are graduating high school not being able to read and write. They teach kids what to think and no longer teach kids how to think and do research. Our current education system is a joke compared to what it used to be.
Reference places in Europe. Diets and physical activity in those countries are much, much better!!!!! Social interaction in the town squares is still a thing and you don't see kids and people with their faces buried in their cell phones. We would still go out for a coffee or to have beers and meet friends or make friends. Parties or fests would entail large gatherings and were a lot of fun.
I enjoyed living in Germany, great country but it has its faults and I like our freedoms. Remember the grass isn't always greener.
Regarding Czech firearms ownership,
"
The Czech Interior Ministry oversees all aspects of gun ownership and related safety issues. Everyone has to pass a written test (in Czech only) and then show that they can safely handle a gun and shoot accurately. They must also pass a medical fitness check, which includes mental fitness. Once a gun is obtained, the owner is obliged to store it safely.
The written test isn’t easy. It has 30 questions, drawn from about 500 possibilities. The amount that you need to get right depends on the type of permit you want. A permit to collect guns, for example, requires only 67 points out of 79, while a self-defense or professional permit, which would work for concealed carry, requires 74 out of 79 points."
"
The Czech Interior Ministry oversees all aspects of gun ownership and related safety issues. Everyone has to pass a written test (in Czech only) and then show that they can safely handle a gun and shoot accurately. They must also pass a medical fitness check, which includes mental fitness. Once a gun is obtained, the owner is obliged to store it safely.
The written test isn’t easy. It has 30 questions, drawn from about 500 possibilities. The amount that you need to get right depends on the type of permit you want. A permit to collect guns, for example, requires only 67 points out of 79, while a self-defense or professional permit, which would work for concealed carry, requires 74 out of 79 points."
I have seen it said that Czechia is the Texas of Europe. In other words a lot of people have LTCs.
Well my retirement just got moved up. I’ll be done in less than 4 years. I am being pushed out slowly. Just found out this Friday at corporate after meetings. I now have a date 12/31/2027. I’ll be less than 60. The funny thing is I am done already and I am looking forward to traveling the world. I am going to live places throughout the world 3 months at a time. I plan on the first few years to be gone 9 months every year. It can’t get here fast enough.
Our forefathers would have been stacking bodies years ago, the repubs hate Trump more than the dems do, and you can't name one thing that is better now than it was when Trump was in office!! There is no where else or anywhere to go, we need to get our country back!
We'll see how Czech holds up for gun rights. They has a mass shooting in Praha/Prague last year.
I'm hoping to go back (I need to stop by the CZ store there) and see where we are on the rebuild of the family home.
“If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth.”
― Ronald Reagan
I'd sure love to know where the greener pastures are. Don't think they're in Europe, or Australia, or Africa, or Latin America... or Asia. Antarctica isn't green and there are no pastures. If we lose our freedoms here, we're screwed.
When you find that greener pasture, be sure to keep it's location a secret.
Funny you mention this. I just recently started a FB thread in (of all places) a couple of Luxembourg Expat groups, just as a test balloon. I had said that I was thinking about Luxembourg as a potential place to expatriate, "should that become necessary." And BOY, did I get a mouthful from some of the expats thinking I was wealthy enough to make those decisions etc. etc. I assure you, I'm not. They also tried to claim it would be a financial struggle and also the weather is bad, etc. and places in the south of Italy would be better, etc. I had to follow up a bit later, saying that I had no intention of leaving the USA and would fight for my country and way of life. Only as a last resort would I "escape," (and I reminded them), "as many Europeans escaped their countries to come to the USA under similar threat/duress."
Actually, what I really want to do is a little shopping in Lux. I just don't want to have to spend the $$$ to fly over there, so I'm hoping I can find someone who will be my "buyer/shipper" there and send me what I'm looking for. Yeah, it's expensive, but it has to be cheaper than spending the $$$ for a plane ticket.
I looked at gun laws first and gave up after about 30 countries. May change once I run out of ammo.
El Salvador is safer than it has ever been in recent times, but it's a fragile safety, and it's surrounded by unsafe neighbors in a very unsafe neighborhood.
If I had to move somewhere it would likely be Australia. I can still own a rifle or shotgun (hard to impossible to own handguns), and hunt... and would not establish residence in NSW. I like the country, reminds me a little of what America was like 30 to 40 years ago in many ways, Sydney's like what L.A. would be if CA had sane government. But there's a strong push for socialism there and placing the collective above the rights of the individual.
