Has anyone thought of leaving the US for greener pastures?

[W54/XM-388]

El Salvador is safer than it has ever been in recent times, but it's a fragile safety, and it's surrounded by unsafe neighbors in a very unsafe neighborhood.

If I had to move somewhere it would likely be Australia. I can still own a rifle or shotgun (hard to impossible to own handguns), and hunt... and would not establish residence in NSW. I like the country, reminds me a little of what America was like 30 to 40 years ago in many ways, Sydney's like what L.A. would be if CA had sane government. But there's a strong push for socialism there and placing the collective above the rights of the individual.

A good choice if you like living in a police state.
If you don't think so, go back and watch all the news footage from around the Covid times...

Now if you move to the outback or way away from the cities, things are somewhat different.
Sydney will be New Bejing in another 10 years.

 

[DubfromGA]

Has anyone thought of leaving the US for greener pastures?​

Nope.


Hell nope.

 

[mikeb127]

A good choice if you like living in a police state.
If you don't think so, go back and watch all the news footage from around the Covid times...

Now if you move to the outback or way away from the cities, things are somewhat different.
Sydney will be New Bejing in another 10 years.

Yeah, you would be nuts to consider moving from a red state in the US to Australia.

Living in rural QLD or NT may possibly be better than living in LA or San Fransisco currently, but Australia is a super urbanized country and politically (at local, state and federal levels) probably moving in the wrong direction for people who like living in rural areas.

 

[atomic41]

Funny you mention this. I just recently started a FB thread in (of all places) a couple of Luxembourg Expat groups, just as a test balloon. I had said that I was thinking about Luxembourg as a potential place to expatriate, "should that become necessary." And BOY, did I get a mouthful from some of the expats thinking I was wealthy enough to make those decisions etc. etc. I assure you, I'm not. They also tried to claim it would be a financial struggle and also the weather is bad, etc. and places in the south of Italy would be better, etc. I had to follow up a bit later, saying that I had no intention of leaving the USA and would fight for my country and way of life. Only as a last resort would I "escape," (and I reminded them), "as many Europeans escaped their countries to come to the USA under similar threat/duress."

I just got back from a business trip in Belgium. (not Luxembourg but next door) I was there a little over a week and by the end of it I was hating the way of life big time and extremely annoyed by the people. It's ok to visit that area but it seriously feels like a prison sentence. You have just enough to survive on, and absolutely nothing else. I noticed that the people there are so conditioned to living like peasants, they don't seem to be comfortable with the idea of freedom. At least other areas of Europe have fun passionate people but not there.

I'm struggling to understand some of the math regarding cost of living. They are taxed about 70-80% (depends on who you ask) of their income but everything including housing, costs about the same as living in LA. I looked at local real estate and what would be a typical suburban middle class house here is over $2M euros there. So I have no idea how they are doing this when the government takes all of their money.

The history is cool and I had lots of walking around and exploring time so I got into the history of world wars and buildings that we bombed then rebuilt. That stuff is fun just like anywhere in Europe but otherwise, it sucks there and the charm of cobblestone streets and markets everywhere becomes "meh" after a few days. Too many French assholes in that area, their food is fucking terrible, their cars suck, people are passive aggressive, their work ethic is garbage, and of course they aren't allowed to own guns.

Oh wait, it is Belgium so I should acknowledge their beer...they do that well and have for thousands of years.

 

[Fx51LP308]

I just got back from a business trip in Belgium. (not Luxembourg but next door) I was there a little over a week and by the end of it I was hating the way of life big time and extremely annoyed by the people. It's ok to visit that area but it seriously feels like a prison sentence. You have just enough to survive on, and absolutely nothing else. I noticed that the people there are so conditioned to living like peasants, they don't seem to be comfortable with the idea of freedom. At least other areas of Europe have fun passionate people but not there.

I'm struggling to understand some of the math regarding cost of living. They are taxed about 70-80% (depends on who you ask) of their income but everything including housing, costs about the same as living in LA. I looked at local real estate and what would be a typical suburban middle class house here is over $2M euros there. So I have no idea how they are doing this when the government takes all of their money.

The history is cool and I had lots of walking around and exploring time so I got into the history of world wars and buildings that we bombed then rebuilt. That stuff is fun just like anywhere in Europe but otherwise, it sucks there and the charm of cobblestone streets and markets everywhere becomes "meh" after a few days. Too many French assholes in that area, their food is fucking terrible, their cars suck, people are passive aggressive, their work ethic is garbage, and of course they aren't allowed to own guns.

Oh wait, it is Belgium so I should acknowledge their beer...they do that well and have for thousands of years.

Trust me, I know Belgium pretty well. I don't think I told this story before, but my first overseas trip to Europe in 1984 was to Belgium to attend the wedding of my close friend who was from there (although, actually. he is of Italian ancestry and born in Italy). He was TDY in the Chicago area (where I was working) from the Belgian branch of the same company. We became good friends (both IT guys) but, eventually, he returned to Belgium and we "pen palled" from that point onward (no Email as of yet). Eventually, he found love and was going to get married. He invited me to his wedding in the Belgian Countryside (Mirwart if you know it). Hence, off I went from Chicago to Europe. flying "Iceland Air" of all things. Of course, they had to stop in Reykjavík. I gather Keflavík airport as it was already operational but a very strong US Military presence there as well, including one of the first AWACS plane bases). We stopped for a crew change. We were allowed to deplane in Reykjavík, but we couldn't go thru the Immigration/Customs checkpoint and/or outside the airport. Eventually we took off again and landed, of all places, "Luxembourg." I then took a Belgian Railway train from the Luxembourg train station to Gembloux, Belgium where my friend met me, taking me to his parents-in-law house. The wedding was great and all was well. one of the wedding guests gave me a ride to Brussels where I stayed for 5 days and where I had activated my 15 day Eurrail pass. I did a few day trips to France (Normandy) On the Friday of that week I left for France again but to take my First TGV ride down to Marseilles. I spent the weekend in Cannes and then traveled to Rome that Sunday. After that, it was all throughout Germany and Switzerland (I had family in Switzerland), before taking the train from Basel (SNCF French side) up to Luxembourg for the trip home).

Yeah, I've been to Belgium before (I did return 1 year later for a visit). This family (the wife's family), apparently was pretty wealthy and had a lot of land and good housing. Apparently the patriarch (now deceased) was a big wig local politician. And, of course, my friend still lives there (albeit divorced from his wife but his 2 kids are fully grown). As for the beer, well, I'm not a beer drinker in general. I know that Jupilier was all over the place but I resisted as much as possible.

How often do you travel to Belgium?

 

[Mudburner]

Thailand comes to mind.

If I did not just buy a farm, I would very seriously consider an extended staycation in rural Thailand. I dont speak Thai, but I can learn, and I would...

I would like to talk about an idea no one has mentioned yet. When I was lived in Korea & Japan, everybody knew I was American round eye. I can speak, read & write some Korean, but I will NEVER be Korean even if I lived there the rest of my life. Japan, same. Thailand same.

But now, when Iived in Germany, I looked just like everybody else. People would come up to me and ask questions in German and my basic German skills revealed instantly that I am American. But I could live in Germany and my face would blend in pretty well, until I said anything. But I can learn.

Australia, same same. I look like them, speak American English and could pretty well fit in with the culture, except for "guns"... and liberal politics.

So, Thailand, or somewhere in SE Asia like Bali maybe. Or Oz. Have to be the top end, tho, or at least the wet parts.

But it's all mental speculation. I just bought a farm with acreage in the Ozarks where I can be as hillbilly as I want. I REALLY fit in around here...

 

[Dunraven]

I'm curious to see what's coming and how it plays out in my neighborhood. Just hope I'm alive and still able to pull a trigger.

 

[Camelfilter]

Has anyone thought of or looked into leaving the US for South of the USA...

Nope. Still the greatest country on Earth. Even given the problems

Have traveled rather extensively, oversees & here. Shitholes & 4 stars. Wouldn't live in one of the 4 star type countries permanent, even if such were a prize/gift.

Now, if the US collapses in our lifetime (Sadly)? Should "Greater Idaho" & "the State of Jefferson" become the country of "Greater Jefferson" we'll stay rite where we are. Else would likely make our way to the Republic of Texas...

 

[XikoPlavi]

I thought all the blonde haired blue eyed boys lived in Brazil….

Argentina is where Joseph melenge escaped to and lived comfortably for decades

 

[Sandhog308]

Thailand comes to mind.

If I did not just buy a farm, I would very seriously consider an extended staycation in rural Thailand. I dont speak Thai, but I can learn, and I would...

I would like to talk about an idea no one has mentioned yet. When I was lived in Korea & Japan, everybody knew I was American round eye. I can speak, read & write some Korean, but I will NEVER be Korean even if I lived there the rest of my life. Japan, same. Thailand same.

But now, when Iived in Germany, I looked just like everybody else. People would come up to me and ask questions in German and my basic German skills revealed instantly that I am American. But I could live in Germany and my face would blend in pretty well, until I said anything. But I can learn.

Australia, same same. I look like them, speak American English and could pretty well fit in with the culture, except for "guns"... and liberal politics.

So, Thailand, or somewhere in SE Asia like Bali maybe. Or Oz. Have to be the top end, tho, or at least the wet parts.

But it's all mental speculation. I just bought a farm with acreage in the Ozarks where I can be as hillbilly as I want. I REALLY fit in around here...

My niece taught at a school in Bangkok for 2 years , all the students were English .
She said learning to speak Thai was tough. Also said it was easy to assimilate to the culture , the food was always fresh , the $$ she made allowed her to live large compared to the US.
I was there in the 70’s twice , had a good vibe , but the language was hard to understand. Hotter than a mo-fo like all SE Asian countries.

Spent quite a bit of time in the Philippines , Love the culture and people , Tagalog was easy to pick up , $$ could go way farther than here for sure. Still have connections there.
I could live and probably thrive there , don’t have but a few tie down chains on my ass.

Have a friend married to an Indian , they go back twice a year now. House in Goa on the beach …he wants to move there tomorrow.

 

[atomic41]

How often do you travel to Belgium?

This was my first.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Thailand comes to mind.

If I did not just buy a farm, I would very seriously consider an extended staycation in rural Thailand. I dont speak Thai, but I can learn, and I would...

I would like to talk about an idea no one has mentioned yet. When I was lived in Korea & Japan, everybody knew I was American round eye. I can speak, read & write some Korean, but I will NEVER be Korean even if I lived there the rest of my life. Japan, same. Thailand same.

But now, when Iived in Germany, I looked just like everybody else. People would come up to me and ask questions in German and my basic German skills revealed instantly that I am American. But I could live in Germany and my face would blend in pretty well, until I said anything. But I can learn.

Australia, same same. I look like them, speak American English and could pretty well fit in with the culture, except for "guns"... and liberal politics.

So, Thailand, or somewhere in SE Asia like Bali maybe. Or Oz. Have to be the top end, tho, or at least the wet parts.

But it's all mental speculation. I just bought a farm with acreage in the Ozarks where I can be as hillbilly as I want. I REALLY fit in around here...

I understand the "fit in" phrase, very well. What I learned after a lifetime to work / travel in America is this.... The place you "fit in" seems good for about 10 years. A person does not change very quickly, what changes is the local culture. What was great 10 years ago is just average America today with the same problems as other places.

 

[corsairpilot62]

I understand the "fit in" phrase, very well. What I learned after a lifetime to work / travel in America is this.... The place you "fit in" seems good for about 10 years. A person does not change very quickly, what changes is the local culture. What was great 10 years ago is just average America today with the same problems as other places.

Well, instead of leaving for greener fields, we need to change the culture back to what it should be. Fuck those commies trying to destroy us!

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Well, instead of leaving for greener fields, we need to change the culture back to what it should be. Fuck those commies trying to destroy us!

If you say that real fast, it sounds easy.
If, and that's a big IF, changes to the culture began tomorrow..... It will take at least 3 generations to bring back the culture of the 1950's.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Funny, I'm currently in Poland setting things in motion for my retirement. My USD will translate nicely into their currency.

I hear nothing but great things about Poland …that would be my choice as well

 

[hlee]

If you say that real fast, it sounds easy.
If, and that's a big IF, changes to the culture began tomorrow..... It will take at least 3 generations to bring back the culture of the 1950's.

Yeah, I saw Pleasantville. I’m not sure bringing back the 50s should be a goal…

 

[beetroot]

If you say that real fast, it sounds easy.
If, and that's a big IF, changes to the culture began tomorrow..... It will take at least 3 generations to bring back the culture of the 1950's.

What if the majority of the population doesn't want to go back to the culture from the 1950s?
Waiting for the US to return to some former time of greener pastures is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Maybe if you lived in a small town in France or Japan you could try and not move forward in the world but that just isn't going to happen in the vast majority of countries.
The only way you will get it to happen is with an increase in Government regulations and controls, as under a free market system there will always be huge pressure to move forward (for better or for worse).

I don't think you'll get much public buy in for an increase in regulations to return the US to the 50s, neither from progressives or conservatives.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

What if the majority of the population doesn't want to go back to the culture from the 1950s?
Waiting for the US to return to some former time of greener pastures is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Maybe if you lived in a small town in France or Japan you could try and not move forward in the world but that just isn't going to happen in the vast majority of countries.
The only way you will get it to happen is with an increase in Government regulations and controls, as under a free market system there will always be huge pressure to move forward (for better or for worse).

I don't think you'll get much public buy in for an increase in regulations to return the US to the 50s, neither from progressives or conservatives.

What's your plan ?

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Yeah, I saw Pleasantville. I’m not sure bringing back the 50s should be a goal…

Your plan ?

 

[Camelfilter]

What if the majority of the population doesn't want to go back to the culture from the 1950s?
Waiting for the US to return to some former time of greener pastures is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Maybe if you lived in a small town in France or Japan you could try and not move forward in the world but that just isn't going to happen in the vast majority of countries.
The only way you will get it to happen is with an increase in Government regulations and controls, as under a free market system there will always be huge pressure to move forward (for better or for worse).

I don't think you'll get much public buy in for an increase in regulations to return the US to the 50s, neither from progressives or conservatives.

That's perfectly fine.

Eliminate just about ALL forms of government assistance. Just about ALL of them.

Scoop all "houseless" & place them in the STATE Hospitals we used to have. Far less expensive than the current "system" PLUS far more morally & ethically responsible. Heck, with care, some of those folks may even return to society beneficially.

FORCE family stability, which MAY result in a better outcome. (by force, see removal of nearly all "FREE SHIT").

FORCE charity via church (Synagogue, Mosque, Giant Spaghetti Monster Kiosk whatever) & family, which MAY result in a better outcome. IT WILL REMOVE the "industry" of bureaucracy surrounding government "charity", so even WITHOUT a definable cultural change, there will be a definable tax basis recovery.

Charity should have remained the responsibility of family & private religious orgs. With ZERO government funding.

Rework public school system K thru Advanced degree. Private can remain kooky-looky if they already are, and wish to remain so.

Re-work the criminal justice system. Top to bottom. While I do not believe in the death penalty (for the most part) in our current system, perhaps make it so "air tight" that the probability of an innocent being put to death is as near zero as possible. Revamp punishments, simplistically: motor vehicle theft - 10 years. Motor vehicle theft involving a weapon (not shown, but on them) -life. Car jacking? - death. No joke.

Oh & don't even get me started on hard drug crimes.

This from me being a small "l" libertarian too.

 

[beetroot]

What's your plan ?

Politicide

 

[beetroot]

That's perfectly fine.

Eliminate just about ALL forms of government assistance. Just about ALL of them.

Scoop all "houseless" & place them in the STATE Hospitals we used to have. Far less expensive than the current "system" PLUS far more morally & ethically responsible. Heck, with care, some of those folks may even return to society beneficially.

FORCE family stability, which MAY result in a better outcome. (by force, see removal of nearly all "FREE SHIT").

FORCE charity via church (Synagogue, Mosque, Giant Spaghetti Monster Kiosk whatever) & family, which MAY result in a better outcome. IT WILL REMOVE the "industry" of bureaucracy surrounding government "charity", so even WITHOUT a definable cultural change, there will be a definable tax basis recovery.

Charity should have remained the responsibility of family & private religious orgs. With ZERO government funding.

Rework public school system K thru Advanced degree. Private can remain kooky-looky if they already are, and wish to remain so.

Re-work the criminal justice system. Top to bottom. While I do not believe in the death penalty (for the most part) in our current system, perhaps make it so "air tight" that the probability of an innocent being put to death is as near zero as possible. Revamp punishments, simplistically: motor vehicle theft - 10 years. Motor vehicle theft involving a weapon (not shown, but on them) -life. Car jacking? - death. No joke.

Oh & don't even get me started on hard drug crimes.

This from me being a small "l" libertarian too.

The problem with your plan is the use of force, and that it'd would require heavy handed government intervention.

In theory the average conservative/republican would be all for a lot of your ideas, but the use of force from the government isn't going to fly with many of them. It's certainly going to be popular with liberals, and unless you turn the government into a totalitarian state then it's not going to work.
Even then totalitarian states don't actually last, and the "ideals" don't get genuine public buy in.
You could try converting the nation into a hyper religious state and do things that way, but it's unlikely to be possible with a heavy handed government, which republicans/conversative/libertarians reportedly hate.

I do agree that many if the roles governments play in peoples lives should be done by the church or the community, the issue is how to get people to buy back into the message churches are selling, but unfortunately that isn't palatable to the vast majority of people these days.

The only way to really do it is to get churches to have a better message, but so far virtually no western country has managed to reverse the decline of Christianity (other than with ethnic minorities funnily enough) and I don't think the average American evangelical church is going to appeal to 50% of Americans without turning its back on the ones that already support it.

 

[Camelfilter]

The problem with your plan is the use of force, and that it'd would require heavy handed government intervention.

In theory the average conservative/republican would be all for a lot of your ideas, but the use of force from the government isn't going to fly with many of them. It's certainly going to be popular with liberals, and unless you turn the government into a totalitarian state then it's not going to work.
Even then totalitarian states don't actually last, and the "ideals" don't get genuine public buy in.
You could try converting the nation into a hyper religious state and do things that way, but it's unlikely to be possible with a heavy handed government, which republicans/conversative/libertarians reportedly hate.

I do agree that many if the roles governments play in peoples lives should be done by the church or the community, the issue is how to get people to buy back into the message churches are selling, but unfortunately that isn't palatable to the vast majority of people these days.

The only way to really do it is to get churches to have a better message, but so far virtually no western country has managed to reverse the decline of Christianity (other than with ethnic minorities funnily enough) and I don't think the average American evangelical church is going to appeal to 50% of Americans without turning its back on the ones that already support it.

Very true. Mind. I'm not considering mandating anyone be in a church (Synagogue, Mosque, Giant Spaghetti Monster Kiosk whatever), I'm just suggesting removal of nearly all "FREE SHIT" from .gov.

Want "FREE SHIT", there will be 2 options. Your own family, or church (Synagogue, Mosque, Giant Spaghetti Monster Kiosk whatever).

No one NEEDS to join whatever church (Synagogue, Mosque, Giant Spaghetti Monster Kiosk whatever), unless whatever church (Synagogue, Mosque, Giant Spaghetti Monster Kiosk whatever) says they do for "FREE SHIT"...

Also, when I wrote "FORCE" above, that is meant in the concept sense only. Not the literal sense.

ie FORCE family stability & charitability via church (Synagogue, Mosque, Giant Spaghetti Monster Kiosk whatever)---simply because they will then be the only games in town for "FREE SHIT"...if that makes sense??

Suppose "...Scoop all "houseless" & place them in the STATE Hospitals..." could be perceived as "FORCE" literally, & suppose it could be. However such is truthfully the ONLY HUMANE thing to do at this point. For the houseless population AND for society.

No worries tho, none of the above will ever happen...too much power & $$ involved.

 

[Fig]

What if the majority of the population doesn't want to go back to the culture from the 1950s?
Waiting for the US to return to some former time of greener pastures is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Maybe if you lived in a small town in France or Japan you could try and not move forward in the world but that just isn't going to happen in the vast majority of countries.
The only way you will get it to happen is with an increase in Government regulations and controls, as under a free market system there will always be huge pressure to move forward (for better or for worse).

I don't think you'll get much public buy in for an increase in regulations to return the US to the 50s, neither from progressives or conservatives.

The idea that "moving forward" means compromising your beliefs and values for something "new" is almost the definition of leftism. In fact Progressives have no fixed values and morals. They are for moving "forward" to get the results of whatever the immediate zeitgeist says to do (eat tide pods, cut your dick off, jump off a cliff), and so they will believe anything as long as someone tells them they are moving forward and they are modern. Pining for the 1950s doesn't mean that we want to go back to wood burning stoves or AM radios. It isn't simple nostalgia. It's wanting to return to a time where there was social cohesion, and before our differences were considered who we are rather than those things that tie us all together. Resisting the people who worship the world and think they can make their own morality in a fractured society is, to me, elementary. The idea that we are "evolving" and it is in our interest to "move forward" is the genesis of all evil on planet earth. It literally doesn't matter what political science label you put on it. It's the same thing over and over and over. The marketing may improve, but it's the same stench of death.

So too is creating and living in a society where people want to actually be a part of that society. There was a time when people in this country WANTED to BE AMERICANS. It meant something. If there is anything the left and worshipers of the world have been successful at it is turning morally neutral ideas like "equity" and "diversity" into virtues while relegating actual virtues like truth and justice into being points of view. What's more they never miss an opportunity to elevate a genuine sin, like "pride", into a virtue.

What's old is new.