Rifle Scopes Have $2.1k for glass. Down to two choices. Need advice.

[earthquake]

For my price point of just above $2k or so, I think I'm down to to scopes:

Vortex Razor 5-20x HD

Bushnell XRS 4.5-30x in FDE

Am I overlooking another? Maybe NightForce?

With the above two mentioned, are the pretty comparable in performance and glass clarity/quality? I was damn near going to pull the trigger on the XRS, but then got to looking at the Razor. I like that the Razor is illuminated, has the EBR-2B reticle, and comes with a plethora of accessories (ARD, sunshade, caps, bubble-level) and now comes in 10-mil per turn. I've heard nothing but good about the Razor. But it's only 20x and I was interested in going higher, like 25x or so. (Would love a Steiner or S&B but can't do it. $$$)

What I like about the XRS is the higher mag and I've heard great things about the G2 reticle, it has zero-stop and locking turrets. It's not illuminated, but I've rarely used illum in a scope before.

So, if anyone has some last minute helpful advice that might help me and serve others looking too, it would be welcome. Is the EBR-2B reticle too thick at high mag? I have come across that concern in a review I found on the web. That was an issue I had with previous scopes that I didn't like. So I guess in a nutshell, if you've had both of these scopes, which one did you like better? Or is there a NF at the same price point I should look at? I will be using this on a 6.5CM out to 1k+ yards shooting steel and really want to start shooting comps...if that info helps.

 

[scap99]

No love for the SWFA SS 5-20x50HD?

 

[bh-ltr]

What rifle is it going on and at what ranges do you plan on shooting? I have a S&B PMII 5-25 P4F DT CM CW on my rifle and love it. However I've found that if I turn the power down while shooting I shoot better. Goes with the aim small miss small principal. Also makes you believe you're holding more still than you are. Depending on how far you plan on shooting there is very good chance that 20x is all you'll ever need and the extras that come with the Vortex are some nice additions! Heck I remember paying I think it was 85 bucks to get a 2" sunshade for my S&B. Also depending on how hot it is in your area there are good odds that the mirage is going to be so bad that you don't want to go all the way to the higer power range anyway. Just a few more things to chew on...

With that being said I really like the G2 reticle! I think its my favorite of them all out there at the moment but I think that 0.2 mil gradations are easier to mil targets with now that I've had the chance to use both I found myself more accurate with the 0.2 mil marks go figure. That could just be a personal short coming but at my last class the instructor actually made a special award to give to me for the accuracy in ranging targets with a reticle. So all things being equal now that I'm used to .2 mil vernier scale I think that the EBR-2B would be an absolute gem! The .2 mil wind holds are pretty damn nice!

Sorry to only add more confustion to the matter but hopefully some of these random thoughts help you reach solace and comfort. I don't think you'll be disappointed with either road you take.

~Brett

 

[Bulletmoto]

Sending you a PM

 

[bh-ltr]

Hrm... I missed that its .06 thick... That does make for faster use but will hinder group size a little bit. Again I think if you zoom out a bit and don't over use magnification it will bug you less and you'll be a better shot for it. Sounds really conter intuitive and its taken me a lot of trial and error before I really believed it.

~Brett

 

[Captain Kirk]

Both will serve you well. I will tell you from personal experience, the only shooting I do is matches and I rarely use the illumination even though its there, even in the night stage, which is rare. I like the Bushnell due to its magnification range and its compact size, not to mention the G2DMR is my second favorite reticle after the GenII XR

 

[earthquake]

Just came across the Leupold M5A2 which looks nice...don't know much about them. Also, the NF ATACR I could probably swing too. I've actually got about $2,400 or so. Are the ATACR's shipping or in stock most places yet?

I mentioned in my original post this is going on a 6.5CM and I shoot steel out to 1,200 yds or so. Want a good comp scope too as I plan on getting into comps one of these days...seems like I"ve been saying that for a long time now!

Thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming!

 

[Captain Kirk]

The Bushnell is hard to beat, or save a few bucks and by a Bushnell 3.5-21 HDMR and have extra for brass, bullets, barrel, match fees, etc.

 

[earthquake]

Has Bushy fixed the problems I've read about with CA in the newer scopes, the ERS and XRS? Were those CA problems prevalent in the older DMR and HDMR's?

 

[bh-ltr]

If you're interested in comps I think that lower power and weight would be more important than high magnification. Seems like I'd seen more 4-16x42 S&Bs than 5-25x56s when I was looking at the last match... Made me think I'd chose the wrong scope.

 

[Captain Kirk]

Those were the early DMR/HDMRs.

 

[BigJohn141]

I've owned a razor and XRS at the same time, I still own the XRS. Nothing against the Razor, it is great glass for the price, but the XRS just edges it out.

 

[bh-ltr]

Whats a CA problem?

 

[ZombieSlayer]

Really annoying is what it is.

 

[B.A.C.]

Taken from Wikipedia.

CA=Chromatic Aberation. In optics, chromatic aberration (CA, also called achromatism or chromatic distortion) is a type of distortion in which there is a failure of a lens to focus all colors to the same convergence point. It occurs because lenses have a different refractive index for different wavelengths of light (the dispersion of the lens).

 

[bh-ltr]

Ah ok then... Know what Chromatic Aberation is but when I saw CA problem I just figured that they were made in California or something. Yea chromatic aberation is a damned annoying problem. Major eye fatigue and you end up going nuts swearing that you should be able to focus it better...

~Brett

 

[Red_Beard]

Don't bring up the CA issue because you will get your head bitten off (speaking from experience). The bushy is a great scope and so is vortex, between the 2 I prefer the vortex. The nightforce F1 doesn't have the high magnification, but in that price range, it is the scope i would go with and 15x is plenty of mag to get you to 1k.

Just some food for thought, you can pick up a used Steiner for around that price too if you check the for sale section. I got mine from Scott @ liberty optics, it would be a good idea for you to give him a call and see what he might be able to work for ya.

 

[Sportin Wood]

PM Lazy21 and have him set you up with a USO that's within your budget. You won't be disappointed.. Believe me, I've got acouple from Julio....

 

[pmclaine]

Be sure to buy the scope you want. Do not compromise because of cash constraints it will cost you in the long run.

If you will be entirely happy with one of the two scopes mentioned and they are within your budget than that is great but you mentioned you would love a Steiner or S&B. Your savings are not that far from Steiner territory or if you keep a sharp eye on the want to selll pages you may come up with a deal. Someone got a nice looking Premier the other day for $2100. Mile High often has some used optics at good prices you should look for. Other Hide vendors may have an open box item or something on hand that may work for you.

Please dont make the mistake of "settling". If you have some other scope in mind everytime you go to the range you will be unsatisfied with your purchase and at some point in time you will take the loss on the sale of your scope to buy what you really wanted.

If your not satisfied with a shot in the 8 ring you wont be satisfied by equipment that is not what you really wanted.

 

[jjrgr21]

another $200 for the ATACR, that scope is incredible.

 

[golddot609]

a plus one for the Steiner, i have the 3-12 x 56, i looked at every major scope MFG at the NRA show, my steiner is built like a tank and has exec glass...you wontbe dissapointed, mine came from euro optics and i beleive they have a few demo models on clearnace right now...excuse typos..fighting a bad migraine

 

[samnev]

I would look at the Nightforce NXS 5.5-22X50/56 with hst and zs which sells about $100 less than your budget.

 

[Jedi]

SFP or FFP?

once you make that determination you can proceed, do not buy a FFP scope for Fclass etc

Buy used and save your self some coin

Razor or XRS are both fine scopes

 

[Quickdraw40]

Steiner 4-16x50, $2,300 and free $500 binos....

 

[Strykervet]

No shit, look on here. You'll get way more for your money. I bought two scopes from Hide members, both times they sent me scopes in as good or better condition than they advertised. Just make sure the scope pictured is really his scope. Just got a USO 3.2-17 SN3, mil/mil, came in the box and looked unused (claimed it had 100rds. under it) for $2340 shipped and insured. It was ordered with all the bells and whistles and basically in the configuration I'd have ordered it myself --for hundreds less. I almost ordered the exact same one from USO until I scrolled through and found this one on page 6 or something (some folks don't bump their ads, so digging behooves you). It sits on my 6.5Grendel and I'll be running that bastard to 1000m on steel myself.

Now could be just me, but that damn USO is just the tits. It looks like you could hammer nails with it. I always wanted one, and I'm damn satisfied with it. Didn't come with the ARD, but that was only like $40-$50 through USO and they were FAST. Their thin honeycomb ARD also doesn't interfere nearly as much with the lighting and image as the older ones (plastic, Tenebraex) and reduces glare much better, IMO.

A while back I got a Leupold Mk.4 M/RT 2.5-8x mildot for ($800?). Again, could have been NIB. In a way, the Hide has sort of become my first stop shop for optics!

Keep your eyes peeled. They come up on here all the time, and you can get a better deal on here with most members. They also don't beat you up on "handling fees" or any of that shit, and they'll pack it and insure it to your specs with no bullshit or fees involved. Just make sure the member you are dealing with is worthy, do your homework.

 

[Strykervet]

Be sure to buy the scope you want. Do not compromise because of cash constraints it will cost you in the long run.

If you will be entirely happy with one of the two scopes mentioned and they are within your budget than that is great but you mentioned you would love a Steiner or S&B. Your savings are not that far from Steiner territory or if you keep a sharp eye on the want to selll pages you may come up with a deal. Someone got a nice looking Premier the other day for $2100. Mile High often has some used optics at good prices you should look for. Other Hide vendors may have an open box item or something on hand that may work for you.

Please dont make the mistake of "settling". If you have some other scope in mind everytime you go to the range you will be unsatisfied with your purchase and at some point in time you will take the loss on the sale of your scope to buy what you really wanted.

If your not satisfied with a shot in the 8 ring you wont be satisfied by equipment that is not what you really wanted.

This, no shit. It is why I have both the Leupold and the USO... The Leupy didn't cut it. Buy once, cry once, that is what they always say around here.

 

[KillShot]

Another vote for the NightForce ATACR. When shooters are comparing it to Schmidt Bender, that alone should tell you something.

 

[earthquake]

Just sold an old PU I had, so now I have $2,780 to put towards a scope and rings! I was wanting to get one asap, this week, since I'm traveling to OH Friday for some vacation to visit family. Will have my rifle with me. But I think I will wait for a bit to see what pops up on the boards. I'll just put my Weaver Grand-slam 3-15 on there to play with while back home next week. That will at least let me shoot, and give me time to figure out what I really want/need and can get. Thanks for all the info provided thus far. It's really been helpful.

 

[pmclaine]

Just sold an old PU I had, so now I have $2,780 to put towards a scope and rings! I was wanting to get one asap, this week, since I'm traveling to OH Friday for some vacation to visit family. Will have my rifle with me. But I think I will wait for a bit to see what pops up on the boards. I'll just put my Weaver Grand-slam 3-15 on there to play with while back home next week. That will at least let me shoot, and give me time to figure out what I really want/need and can get. Thanks for all the info provided thus far. It's really been helpful.

You will be much happier using your current scope, or even irons should be adequate for a Marine out to 700 yds - remember Belleau Wood?

Study/save/hunt for the scope you really want.

I found breathing into a paper bag helps when I really had the urge to settle and buy what I didnt want.

 

[19Scout77]

Just sold an old PU I had, so now I have $2,780 to put towards a scope and rings! I was wanting to get one asap, this week, since I'm traveling to OH Friday for some vacation to visit family. Will have my rifle with me. But I think I will wait for a bit to see what pops up on the boards. I'll just put my Weaver Grand-slam 3-15 on there to play with while back home next week. That will at least let me shoot, and give me time to figure out what I really want/need and can get. Thanks for all the info provided thus far. It's really been helpful.

With that budget, you are close enough to make a used sb a realistic option.

 

[scudzuki]

CA is an annoyance, not a problem.
Many scopes exhibit it to some degree and it does not limit the performance of the scope.

I have an XRS.
It does not have top shelf glass, it has mid to upper midrange glass.
It is bright and clear to 24x or so, above that it can be a little dim if the light is not so good.
Eyebox is good, adjustments and travel are good, mag range is great (no tunneling), G2DMR, reticle, even if you ignore the "Christmas tree", is good for FFP (not too thick at max power, visible at low power).
Turrets are pretty nice, locking feature is handy.

Razor glass is alleged better, and it has illumination.

Both are good choices, both have lifetime warranty.

XRS in FDE is sexy.
What's with the color of the Razor?

Joe

 

[800mZero]

Leupold Mark 6 3-18

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Another vote for Steiner 4-16. Better than the 2 you are looking at in basically every area but mag and only $200 more. Can't beat it.

 

[s002wjh]

both are good

 

[bigskydoc]

I went through the same decision recently and went with the Bushnell. I like the G2 reticle and wanted a non-illuminated reticle. The Razor was very tempting. If not for the illuminated reticle, I would likely have gone this route since I could buy it locally. The Steiner offering was pretty compelling too. Ultimately the deal I found at Eurooptic made my decision very easy (Thanks Snipershide Eurooptic Forum).

If you don't have to have the FDE you could save a bundle. I bought a demo black XRS 4.5-30 G2DMR from Eurooptic for $1775 over the weekend . New warranty and 1 year guarantee. They still show inventory on their site.

Hard to beat that deal. If you don't like it, you should be able to sell it for minimal loss.

-bsd

 

[317millhand]

I have seen several used Premiers come up for sale on this site in your price range. I even bought one. Couldnt be happier.

 

[peak98]

The Steiner 5x25 w/MSR will be my next purchase. Get what you REALLY want the first time around.

 

[DeadNoise]

nightforce, i have had zero issues with mine. and the MOAR ret is great

 

[ScottyD]

Just sold an old PU I had, so now I have $2,780 to put towards a scope and rings! I was wanting to get one asap, this week....

With that kind of cash in hand, you could drive down to I-25 and hit Mile High (S&B and Nightforce on the shelf) and hit Trigger Time (Premier and Steiner on the shelf) and come home with something asap... If its gotta be right now, that's what I'd do... especially if you've never handled any of these high-end scopes -at least you could look through them first hand and fiddle with the clicks and stuff... Otherwise, its back to the optics for sale page here on the hide!

One other option: Looks like cameralandny.com still has steiner demos available:

Steiner Demo & Sample Gear - Camera Land NY

If I ever find myself with $2780 to burn, I'll be READY! LOL! Good luck!

 

[Boogaloo]

I own 3 Nightforce scopes including an ATACR (MOAR), NXS 3-15x50F1 and a 5.5-22x56 (MOAR). I love them all without a doubt.
I am surprised that nobody talks about Hensoldt here? When you start talking about Steiners, S&B's and optics in the $3,000.00 plus range you are approaching Hensoldt territory as well.
My dream is to have a Hensoldt one day, and if I could only have one scope, it would be a Hensholdt ZF. I have yet to look through a rifle optic that had clearer glass or better color rendition.

The ATACR is is DAMN close and over $1000.00 cheaper so it was an easier decision for me when the ATACR was in my radar.

Don't forget the Nightforce BEAST is right around the corner.

 

[sobrbiker883]

USO MR17.
Awesome scope and made right here in the USA by a company that's been supporting precision rifle shooting for 10+ yrs.

 

[Rob01]

Look in the for sale section here for a Razor for about $1700, another $100 or so for rings and you have an excellent scope loaded with good features and plenty of money left over for ammo.

 

[Defuzer]

check and see if cameraland has the "open box" steiners 5-25 msr's left. i picked one up for 2499 recently still in plastic

 

[EasternNChunter]

Camera Land has a Steiner 5-25x56 "Never Mounted" G2 Mildot for $2399. I sent you a PM but this is a better deal then what I suggested. If I hadn't already paid $500 as a down payment to a hide member for one already, I would be all over this. By the way, I sold my Nightforce 5.5-22x56 because the glass was average at best in low light (hunting).

 

[earthquake]

Thanks again for all the help, advice and suggestions...especially to those that pointed me to the Steiner 5-25 deal! I picked up the 5-25 with MSR...should have it next Wednesday. Never thought I'd be able to own glass of that quality. I used Steiner binos while in the Corps and was always impressed with them. Then I got to look through a fellow Hider's 5-25 Steiner a month or so ago (thanks Beck!) and really liked it. This I feel is definitely a buy once/cry once scope for me and by far the nicest piece of glass I've ever owned. Again, thanks a bunch!

 

[jonesturf]

Good grab. I have had a Razor, own an XRS, and want a Steiner now.

Just wanted to add I agree with what scudzuki said although I believe the Razor glass and the XRS are almost equal. For matches you need 22x plus for the stages that require target ID shit. I also want to add one thing about the G2DMR reticles and the XRS. You lose the .1 mil marks after about 23x. It doesn't really matter though becuase they are so damn hard to count anyway. That's the only turnoff I have had with them. Its a great comp scope...the locking knobs are great for some stages.

Either way you made a great buy on the Steiner. Think I might go that route very soon.

CA is an annoyance, not a problem.
Many scopes exhibit it to some degree and it does not limit the performance of the scope.

I have an XRS.
It does not have top shelf glass, it has mid to upper midrange glass.
It is bright and clear to 24x or so, above that it can be a little dim if the light is not so good.
Eyebox is good, adjustments and travel are good, mag range is great (no tunneling), G2DMR, reticle, even if you ignore the "Christmas tree", is good for FFP (not too thick at max power, visible at low power).
Turrets are pretty nice, locking feature is handy.

Razor glass is alleged better, and it has illumination.

Both are good choices, both have lifetime warranty.

XRS in FDE is sexy.
What's with the color of the Razor?

Joe

 

[pmclaine]

I love a happy ending...even when I'm not having it.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Thanks again for all the help, advice and suggestions...especially to those that pointed me to the Steiner 5-25 deal! I picked up the 5-25 with MSR...should have it next Wednesday. Never thought I'd be able to own glass of that quality. I used Steiner binos while in the Corps and was always impressed with them. Then I got to look through a fellow Hider's 5-25 Steiner a month or so ago (thanks Beck!) and really liked it. This I feel is definitely a buy once/cry once scope for me and by far the nicest piece of glass I've ever owned. Again, thanks a bunch!

Good stuff!!

 

[Shotplacement]

All good choices. I prefer the HDMR and you would save a few bills

 

[premierjax]

For whatever its worth Ive taken my NF F1 out to 1k yards and I only use 10x magnification. As far as illumination to me its a novelty. I cant speak for the two mentioned scopes but if you can look through an F1 before making your decision....you should. I think you would find going after the high magnification is not what its cracked up to be, IMHO, of course.

Don't bring up the CA issue because you will get your head bitten off (speaking from experience). The bushy is a great scope and so is vortex, between the 2 I prefer the vortex. The nightforce F1 doesn't have the high magnification, but in that price range, it is the scope i would go with and 15x is plenty of mag to get you to 1k.

Just some food for thought, you can pick up a used Steiner for around that price too if you check the for sale section. I got mine from Scott @ liberty optics, it would be a good idea for you to give him a call and see what he might be able to work for ya.