Have we come full circle on AR optics?

[WindstormSCR]

@John Baker I do have a question for you, how would the prism systems interact with first focal plane LPVOs? I was thinking about that last night and couldn't seem to find an answer with sufficient detail to assuage my curiosity. it would also be interesting to see examples of ways to mount the alpha with clip-on systems, or a version that is more compatible with clip-on devices like the AN/PVS-30

 

[John Baker]

@John Baker I do have a question for you, how would the prism systems interact with first focal plane LPVOs? I was thinking about that last night and couldn't seem to find an answer with sufficient detail to assuage my curiosity. it would also be interesting to see examples of ways to mount the alpha with clip-on systems, or a version that is more compatible with clip-on devices like the AN/PVS-30

The Alpha/prism can interact with both F1 and F2. We have a few mil guys who like the LPVO with our unit as an ultimate combo. All known daytime optics we have ever found. Yes to the AN/PVS-30. Standard night optics device goes in front. Thermals- device follows the thermal but in front of the day optic. We have used them on subsonic 200m shoots at night and extended with the Charlie into the 2km range... Yes- they do and can compensate for sub to super or super to sub. Bore offset in extreme close quarters. We had to build one to give a zero at 7ft. Not sure what they were engaging- a bad guy in a small bathroom maybe.

 

[WindstormSCR]

The Alpha/prism can interact with both F1 and F2. We have a few mil guys who like the LPVO with our unit as an ultimate combo. All known daytime optics we have ever found. Yes to the AN/PVS-30. Standard night optics device goes in front. Thermals- device follows the thermal but in front of the day optic. We have used them on subsonic 200m shoots at night and extended with the Charlie into the 2km range... Yes- they do and can compensate for sub to super or super to sub. Bore offset in extreme close quarters. We had to build one to give a zero at 7ft. Not sure what they were engaging- a bad guy in a small bathroom maybe.

I should have been more specific I suppose, with the pre-train prisms, would that affect mil values like the 2x enhancer I presently use does? (changing the effective value of the mil hashes)

Basically trying to figure out if training is needed to compensate for the presence of the prism when using standard Mil ranging methods

and speaking of the enhancer, I think the Trybe one is currently the only one on the market, it would be nice to see someone else bring competition to that space.

 

[John Baker]

I should have been more specific I suppose, with the pre-train prisms, would that affect mil values like the 2x enhancer I presently use does? (changing the effective value of the mil hashes)

Basically trying to figure out if training is needed to compensate for the presence of the prism when using standard Mil ranging methods

and speaking of the enhancer, I think the Trybe one is currently the only one on the market, it would be nice to see someone else bring competition to that space.

No training is needed: it will not move any initial holds accept for the vertical as per the value we build the Alpha too.
We can build to a yardage based on your inputs for velocity, bullet, zero ranges etc..
We can build to a specific offset- moa or mil.
Our builds come .1moa values and can be built from 0-30moa. Though as a note as magnification goes up the shift ability decreases. At some point depending on your application we have to jump to a Bravo unit- then 80mil is the limit.
I can tell you why the most likely reason the 2x enhancer moves your base hold... If I understood the question. But in fairness it is not my product.

I have a 2x enhancer sitting on my shelf from 2016 we built and shot. We have been asked by two companies to finish it for release... I think you will like our options...

 

[John Baker]

No training is needed: it will not move any initial holds accept for the vertical as per the value we build the Alpha too.
We can build to a yardage based on your inputs for velocity, bullet, zero ranges etc..
We can build to a specific offset- moa or mil.
Our builds come .1moa values and can be built from 0-30moa. Though as a note as magnification goes up the shift ability decreases. At some point depending on your application we have to jump to a Bravo unit- then 80mil is the limit.
I can tell you why the most likely reason the 2x enhancer moves your base hold... If I understood the question. But in fairness it is not my product.

I have a 2x enhancer sitting on my shelf from 2016 we built and shot. We have been asked by two companies to finish it for release... I think you will like our options...

And thank you WindstormSCR-- all of our devices to date (barrel included) are "enhancers" of existing product. Really smart people built really good stuff- no reason to try and reinvent the wheel.

 

[WindstormSCR]

No training is needed: it will not move any initial holds accept for the vertical as per the value we build the Alpha too.
We can build to a yardage based on your inputs for velocity, bullet, zero ranges etc..
We can build to a specific offset- moa or mil.
Our builds come .1moa values and can be built from 0-30moa. Though as a note as magnification goes up the shift ability decreases. At some point depending on your application we have to jump to a Bravo unit- then 80mil is the limit.
I can tell you why the most likely reason the 2x enhancer moves your base hold... If I understood the question. But in fairness it is not my product.

I have a 2x enhancer sitting on my shelf from 2016 we built and shot. We have been asked by two companies to finish it for release... I think you will like our options..

I think I understand now, since there is no direct magnification from the Taracs, they don't alter the mil value as the mil values are a direct result of magnification, not of shifting the image. Optical physics have always given me a little bit of a headache, no pun intended.

having used the trybe one extensively, my feedback if you're planning to break into that arena:
The trybe unit has its own zero settings to realign it to the primary optics train, which works pretty well, I think my biggest gripe about it is the attachment method, which is a fine pitch thread that can be difficult to time correctly when reattaching. Something like a miniaturized camera mount (like the oooold pentax K lens mounts) seems more suitable for the task of keeping things aligned while being easily removed/reattached.

 

[John Baker]

I think I understand now, since there is no direct magnification from the Taracs, they don't alter the mil value as the mil values are a direct result of magnification, not of shifting the image. Optical physics have always given me a little bit of a headache, no pun intended.

having used the trybe one extensively, my feedback if you're planning to break into that arena:
The trybe unit has its own zero settings to realign it to the primary optics train, which works pretty well, I think my biggest gripe about it is the attachment method, which is a fine pitch thread that can be difficult to time correctly when reattaching. Something like a miniaturized camera mount (like the oooold pentax K lens mounts) seems more suitable for the task of keeping things aligned while being easily removed/reattached.

You are correct. A wedge or mirror system should not alter any points seen thru your optic- rather a result. Could we build a TARAC with magnification - yes. However a tree/mil dot etc... scale would change accordingly.
Our units central theme (2x unit) was not the optics- relatively easy- it was how to repeatedly survive up to a 50cal. and be removable/remountable with a high level of repeatability.
Checking on oooold... I think you might have insulted me LOL

 

[WindstormSCR]

none intended, just old to me! My introduction to using cameras seriously as more than a simple click around 11-12 was the Pentax K series, still have my grandfather's pair of them that he bought in japan when they were still made there. Something I treasure as the quality on them is notably different from a lot of what you see these days unless you're really on the high end. Still use them too! though film is getting harder to find.

Back to the thread topic, I wonder if we'll see more affordable offerings similar in idea to Meprolight's foresight and Steiner's IFS, more attempts to integrate information directly into the optic train.

 

[Precision Underground]

Am I seriously the only one who uses this as an excuse to own 4 carbines/AR pistols?

 

[GreenMushroom]

I think we’ve been moving forward. I’ve got an MRO, an EoTech, and a G3 Razor…outside of fighting inside a house, the G3 kicks the asses of the others…if the G3 had a red dot attached, which it will soon, then that combo seems to be the winner.

Agreed. I added a 12 o'clock dot and it's an extremely capable set up. I've only had it out a few times and after years of shooting mostly red dots I need a lot of practice to use it to it's full potential. It's a good enough system that it was immediately obvious to me that I am the weak link. I plan to pair it with a yoterC in the spring time which looks like a great combo.

 

[chase723]

Agreed. I added a 12 o'clock dot and it's an extremely capable set up. I've only had it out a few times and after years of shooting mostly red dots I need a lot of practice to use it to it's full potential. It's a good enough system that it was immediately obvious to me that I am the weak link. I plan to pair it with a yoterC in the spring time which looks like a great combo.View attachment 7744042

Great setup! I have a Yoter-C and it’s awesome. Great compliment to the G3.

 

[SmartDonkey]

Question for those of you that are running 1-10 razors (or similar) with a rds either on the scope or 45 degree mount..... Why duplicate the 1 power with the scope? I would think that if you had a reflex sight already then you could go with something that started at 2 or 3 and not have to pay for the 10x magnification range...... maybe a 5x system and get a 3-15 or something like a Trijicon Credo 2-10 (mention that one because I'm looking at it, and seems good for the cost).

Is it just as a backup- what am I overlooking and missing?

 

[GreenMushroom]

Passive nighttime shooting.

 

[WindstormSCR]

Question for those of you that are running 1-10 razors (or similar) with a rds either on the scope or 45 degree mount..... Why duplicate the 1 power with the scope? I would think that if you had a reflex sight already then you could go with something that started at 2 or 3 and not have to pay for the 10x magnification range...... maybe a 5x system and get a 3-15 or something like a Trijicon Credo 2-10 (mention that one because I'm looking at it, and seems good for the cost).

Is it just as a backup- what am I overlooking and missing?

The scope provides superior cheekweld, acquisition, posture, recoil control. BUT it takes time to change magnification. I'm more a fan of canted over top-rider, but the general principle is that it allows you to transition to 1x very quickly if the need arises when doing something at higher magnifications