Having a safety on your carry gun can save your life

[W54/XM-388]

LAPD cop escapes death after attacker wrestles away service firearm

An LAPD desk officer was nearly killed on Saturday after an assailant walked into Harbor Community police station in San Pedro just after 10pm and attacked him, took his gun, and then pulled the trigger.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Anybody know what exact model of gun it was & what safety system it had?

I'm a big fan of a safety on my carry gun by the way.

 

[candyx]

Complacency the minute you let your guard down is when something will happen....

 

[Blue Sky Country]

I saw this same crazy ass shit on another board earlier... I thought the perp had been unable to get the weapon out of it's retention holster so he beat the officer with it instead, holster and all. Tried to pull the trigger too? Shieet.... That officer's guardian angels must have been on his side at full force that night...

 

[kjmdrumz3]

Glock safe action all day. If a perp takes my gun I deserve to be shot with it

Exactly!

 

[diggler1833]

I think safeties are a training issue..
I've spent so much time with the M9 and AR type platforms that their use is purely instinctive. I've killed well over a hundred hogs this year alone and never once thought about engaging/disengaging the safety...yet it's always on until I start blasting.

That being said, none of my defense pistols utilizes a safety. Carry pistols are all striker, and HD pistols are all DA/SA...(again, this is what happens when your wife won't let you put a fourth gunsafe in the house). Mostly my choice in the absence of a safety is because my wife has access to these pistols too, and trying to get her to train enough on the use of a safety instinctively is not going to happen. To her - like the perp - they will prevent the pistol from discharging when intended to.

Glad this officer survived.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

LAPD cop escapes death after attacker wrestles away service firearm

An LAPD desk officer was nearly killed on Saturday after an assailant walked into Harbor Community police station in San Pedro just after 10pm and attacked him, took his gun, and then pulled the trigger.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Anybody know what exact model of gun it was & what safety system it had?

I'm a big fan of a safety on my carry gun by the way.

Says its a Beretta.. guessing a 92

 

[Steel+Killer]

& what safety system it had?

I am thinking it had the Barney Fife AKA no bullets in it safety........

 

[hafejd30]

I’m a glock fan myself

As a Leo I carried glock and sig. No thumb safety and one button snap as a retention.

I may be old school (although I’m only 30) I didn’t mind the thumb safety on the pistols. Because you could train with them and be proficient. Which there’s no denying it could save your life if the shithead didn’t know how to operate the gun

My issue came (and it appears this shithead may have had the same issue) when they started looking into the Blackhawk holsters with several retention systems.

I could always flip the thumb safety off ahead of time if I was going to a call or expected to be in the shit. But I couldn’t draw my gun prior to arrival on most. And having to trust all that plastic and all those springs to work in my favor if I needed it just didn’t give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

I guess I’d rather be the failing point on getting shot with my own gun rather than a thumb safety, grip safety, trigger safety on the gun and a trigger finger retention safety and thumb safety on the holster

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Had there been a safety on a patient's glock last spring in the ER he'd still be able to use the line "just the tip." True story.

 

[Redmanss]

If it was a Beretta like mentioned in the report, it's a 92F/FS or a 845F. https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/handguns/largest-departments-police-sidearms/

Beretta safeties are great, but also require a great deal of training to master.

 

[myronman3]

Had there been a safety on a patient's glock last spring in the ER he'd still be able to use the line "just the tip." True story.

had said patient been smart about what he was doing, he wouldnt have shot himself in the dick. due to him shooting himself in the dick, the gene pool probably got a bit cleaner.

if you dont know how to properly operate, transport and carry your weapon, you shouldnt be operating, transporting, or carrying.

 

[Flyingbullseye]

had said patient been smart about what he was doing, he wouldnt have shot himself in the dick. due to him shooting himself in the dick, the gene pool probably got a bit cleaner.

if you dont know how to properly operate, transport and carry your weapon, you shouldnt be operating, transporting, or carrying.

Touche. I kind of felt bad for him, however much like the nurses it didn't stop me from laughing at his stupidity later.

 

[...]

fuck safeties....if you are relying on a safety to not get shot....youve already fucked up.

if you cant carry a gun safely without a safety, you cant safely carry a gun with a safety.

 

[Maxduty]

Had there been a safety on a patient's glock last spring in the ER he'd still be able to use the line "just the tip." True story.

The safety on a Glock is on the distal phalange of the second digit. True story.

 

[Redmanss]

External safeties or not is the same as brunettes vs redhead, one will kill you and one will save your life. I'll leave it up to each individual to determine which one is which.

The biggest thing that will kill you is getting into a gunfight without a gun. I don't care what you carry, just make sure you are carrying it at all times possible.

 

[BytorJr]

I think safeties are a training issue..
I've spent so much time with the M9 and AR type platforms that their use is purely instinctive. I've killed well over a hundred hogs this year alone and never once thought about engaging/disengaging the safety...yet it's always on until I start blasting.

That being said, none of my defense pistols utilizes a safety. Carry pistols are all striker, and HD pistols are all DA/SA...(again, this is what happens when your wife won't let you put a fourth gunsafe in the house). Mostly my choice in the absence of a safety is because my wife has access to these pistols too, and trying to get her to train enough on the use of a safety instinctively is not going to happen. To her - like the perp - they will prevent the pistol from discharging when intended to.

Glad this officer survived.

Also, when one hunting they're not being jumped from behind or completely surprised...one knows the mission - hog killing (though, they could be more humane and just play SEC football against a certain school in Fayetteville).

 

[theLBC]

personal preference i guess.
for me, i am not choosing my weapon based on a scenario where i let some fucktard take my gun.
the only safety on my handguns is the 10lb+ DA trigger pull.
i can't imagine any situation where i pulled the trigger on a loaded weapon and did not want to destroy whatever was in front of it.
"I thought the safety was on?" what the fuck?

obviously if i carried a 1911, it would be different.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

The "safety" is a mechanical device. As such, they 'can' fail.

That being said, when I was teaching (the mandated script) it was "always USE the safety, but never TRUST the safety."

That was only one of the 'actually mandated' rules needed to pass the course. Personal preferences may be different.

 

[Disfunctional_Engineer]

There's a black object on the ground beside the gun. Wonder if he had a mag safety and dropped the mag? Also certainly possible he had a guy who grabbed a gun he didn't understand the ergonomics of thankfully.

Dude seriously needed a j-frame on the ankle and a lot more situational awareness.

 

[OldSalty2]

I prefer a safety on carry pistols. Just personal preference I suppose. Practice will help efficiency. Draws with snap caps and repetition. I do not rely on saftey alone to be safe. Its merely a layer in the protocol.

But I am also not going to say those who do not like safeties are wrong. Its what you feel is best for you, what you train and practice with, are most comfortable with and of course that you will carry with you at all times.

 

[Maggot]

External safeties or not is the same as brunettes vs redhead, one will kill you and one will save your life. I'll leave it up to each individual to determine which one is which.

Id hit the reporter. She's hot.

 

[308pirate]

I don't have a pistol with a manual safety. I've never had one and I never will.

Anyway, 99% of what the press reports about firearms is wrong anyway.

 

[Numb_Skull]

Maybe the copper doesn't carry with a round in the chamber.

 

[BLEE]

The video is not a complete blow-by-blow, but I get so aggravated watching cops get their tales kicked. I've been a deputy and trained in defensive tactics for law enforcement and it is woefully lacking. I don't know why they don't teach eye gouges, strikes/rips/gouges to the throat and neck, and strikes/rips to the opponents gonads. Hammer fists, knees, elbows and head butts work. If you can't tap into your inner warrior, you should NOT be a cop.

 

[army_eod]

Ask Kyle about that.

 

[Sandhog308]

Also, when one hunting they're not being jumped from behind or completely surprised...one knows the mission - hog killing (though, they could be more humane and just play SEC football against a certain school in Fayetteville).

I Love my Hogs , but they should have never gone to the SEC.

 

[hlee]

The video is not a complete blow-by-blow, but I get so aggravated watching cops get their tales kicked. I've been a deputy and trained in defensive tactics for law enforcement and it is woefully lacking. I don't know why they don't teach eye gouges, strikes/rips/gouges to the throat and neck, and strikes/rips to the opponents gonads. Hammer fists, knees, elbows and head butts work. If you can't tap into your inner warrior, you should NOT be a cop.

Training in hand to hand combatives is expensive and time consuming, exposes the trainee to injury, and potentially exposes the department to liability. These are the reasons I can see (from my couch) that a department might float for not training their officers. I have a high school friend that was on the Houston PD. He said the “hands on” training was barely a day- spread out over several- and was as lacking in content as it was in course length.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

 

[BLEE]

Training in hand to hand combatives is expensive and time consuming, exposes the trainee to injury, and potentially exposes the department to liability. These are the reasons I can see (from my couch) that a department might float for not training their officers. I have a high school friend that was on the Houston PD. He said the “hands on” training was barely a day- spread out over several- and was as lacking in content as it was in course length.

I realize the supposed liability, but officers are getting killed, because they don't know how to defend themselves, without OCS, tazers and pistols. They don't even carry batons, anymore.

 

[Sandhog308]

I haven’t read this whole thread yet. My question is about toting a 1911 locked and cocked ?
May have missed it ? The safety is kinda important when carried upholstered .

 

[hlee]

Sure, but much less of an issue on striker fired, DAO, or DA/SA pistols.

 

[Zeroit]

I haven’t read this whole thread yet. My question is about toting a 1911 locked and cocked ?
May have missed it ? The safety is kinda important when carried upholstered .

Most 1911's will not allow the safety to be engaged unless it is cocked, atleast any I've been familiar with.

 

[theLBC]

Most 1911's will not allow the safety to be engaged unless it is cocked, atleast any I've been familiar with.

hence, cocked and locked.

 

[Redmanss]

And that's just it, everyone gives the 1911 a pass with its external safety, but if someone carries a Beretta or a Sig with a safety on it, all the sudden they're looked upon as if they're ignoring their personal safety or otherwise have no business in carrying a firearm.

What makes the 1911 special and given the case of "Safeties are stupid and hazardous to your life, unless you carry a century plus old handgun."

Shit, I think I'll start carrying a Colt SAA or better yet, a Walker, no safeties and even more of a classic, plus I get a smoke screen for concealment.

 

[theLBC]

And that's just it, everyone gives the 1911 a pass with its external safety, but if someone carries a Beretta or a Sig with a safety on it, all the sudden they're looked upon as if they're ignoring their personal safety or otherwise have no business in carrying a firearm.

What makes the 1911 special and given the case of "Safeties are stupid and hazardous to your life, unless you carry a century plus old handgun."

Shit, I think I'll start carrying a Colt SAA or better yet, a Walker, no safeties and even more of a classic, plus I get a smoke screen for concealment.

mostly because a real 1911 is a single action only and must be carried cocked and locked, otherwise you'd either have to rock the slide or thumb the hammer.

i should add that i don't look down on safeties or people with them, i just don't personally see any good justification.
i suppose if i had kids and leave guns where they can get to them, it would make sense, but i am not in that situation.

 

[Sandhog308]

And that's just it, everyone gives the 1911 a pass with its external safety, but if someone carries a Beretta or a Sig with a safety on it, all the sudden they're looked upon as if they're ignoring their personal safety or otherwise have no business in carrying a firearm.

What makes the 1911 special and given the case of "Safeties are stupid and hazardous to your life, unless you carry a century plus old handgun."

Shit, I think I'll start carrying a Colt SAA or better yet, a Walker, no safeties and even more of a classic, plus I get a smoke screen for concealment.
[/QUOTE

mostly because a real 1911 is a single action only and must be carried cocked and locked, otherwise you'd either have to rock the slide or thumb the hammer.

The time it would take to rack the slide is wasted motion IMO. Hope I’d be alert/trained enough to work the safety of a 1911 ! Kinda like racking a shell in a pump shotgun hoping the sound would scare someone away
Wouldn’t want to leave the hammer down on a empty cylinder on a SAA either...5 rounds versus 6 ! No bueno

 

[theLBC]

The time it would take to rack the slide is wasted motion IMO. Hope I’d be alert/trained or enough to work the safety of a 1911 ! Kinda like racking a shell in a pump shotgun hoping the sound would scare someone away
Wouldn’t want to leave the hammer down on a empty cylinder on a SAA either...5 rounds versus 6 ! No bueno

right, i'm just saying those are the options, and why safeties make sense on a 1911 and aren't redundant (like a safety for a gun with a 12lb trigger pull).

 

[W54/XM-388]

right, i'm just saying those are the options, and why safeties make sense on a 1911 and aren't redundant (like a safety for a gun with a 12lb trigger pull).

heavy triggers suck, you could just have a safety and then have something like a 5 pound DA pull and a 2 pound SA pull

 

[Sandhog308]

Thats why I dig my H&K USP 45 Compact. Carry a chambered round with or without the external safety on.
Going to have to manipulate the safety or leave it off and double action things to start the sequence.
I can draw it and have the safety off pretty efficiently , just one more step ...but is that wasted time and motion ?

 

[theLBC]

heavy triggers suck, you could just have a safety and then have something like a 5 pound DA pull and a 2 pound SA pull

i have to agree that they are difficult for a great many people.

for me, having used a P226 or P229 for almost 30 years, it is just normal to me, and i can shoot groups in DA only almost as good as SA.
of course i do dry fire a lot, with a laser trainer that tells me if i am swiping the target with my dry pull. i also use a target and timer.
maybe having trained with DA/SA pistols for so long is why i found shooting long range easier than i expected.
of course the geissele super scar trigger doesn't hurt, as it is miles better than the SA action on any of my sigs.

 

[Rocky MTN]

And that's just it, everyone gives the 1911 a pass with its external safety, but if someone carries a Beretta or a Sig with a safety on it, all the sudden they're looked upon as if they're ignoring their personal safety or otherwise have no business in carrying a firearm.

What makes the 1911 special and given the case of "Safeties are stupid and hazardous to your life, unless you carry a century plus old handgun."

Shit, I think I'll start carrying a Colt SAA or better yet, a Walker, no safeties and even more of a classic, plus I get a smoke screen for concealment.

Those blackpowder guns will get you a smoke screen and also the added benefit (if up close and personal) that the perp is on fire.

 

[Sandhog308]

Those blackpowder guns will get you a smoke screen and also the added benefit (if up close and personal) that the perp is on fire.

Knew a former Marine Gunny that had been in the shit in Vietnam , was at Khe Sanh in 68.
He owned a liquor store in da hood , always openly packed a 1911 locked & cocked. I made deliveries there and always thought that would be one dude I wouldn’t want to mess with , I’d pity the fool that would attempt to rob him. One morning while opening up , a crackhead got behind him ....got his 1911 out of his holster and got the safety off , shot and eventually killed him. Have no clue if it was luck or knowledge in regard to getting the safety off ??

 

[TexPatriot]

As a former IPSC competitor, my platform was the 1911 until a few years ago. Not having a thumb safety as an integral part of my draw slowed my draw down. I relied on clicking the safety as a part of the sequence of hitting the trigger and a marker in the timing. Not having the manual safety slowed me down as I had an unchecked trigger finger that might come into the sequence early in a high stress, balls to wall draw.
I installed a Cominolli thumb safety on my G19 and fabricated a 1911 lever on it and couldn't be happier. I can ride the safety and it gives my thumb it's resting point it looks for from 30 years of shooting a 1911.