Help Me Avoid the Wrong First Rifle

[Shootin Stuff]

I have a 7 twist 223AI running 80s at 2950, and a 6.5 Creed running 130s at 2900. Sometimes I wonder why I need the creed.

To the OP: If I had to start over I'd probably do the Origin action and build off of that. If you aren't sure if you are serious about this, I'd get a RPR in 6 or 6.5 Creed.

Yep, fast twist 223 ackleys are the bomb.

 

[Kamerad]

I believe I saw it on this site, 6-8mo ago. Right lug, that has extractor at base of it. Snapped right off, shooter was fine, i dont know if beretta took care of him or not.

One case from a while back, by someone else? Why repeat vague second-hand information?

 

[6brshooter]

Well, I remember the pic of the broken bolt and owner said it was not a kaboom. Bolt simply broke. I consider it useful info cause tikka bolts, depending on configuration, can be a bitch to get. Sorry i didn't write down date and member name to prove it to you, fuckin eye roll. @clcustom1911 had to tig their tikka bolt back together 6-8mo ago on a thread here. Rifle rolled over on bench with bolt up, snapped handle off, actually breaking bolt body. There is a weak area there and the 10" roll over exploited it.

 

[6brshooter]

1000.00 ctr, 425.00bravo chassis, 10.00 trigger spring. 1435.00 for a nice action and factory barrel

Vs.

825 origin, 25.00 barrel nut, 375.00 criterion, 300-425.00 used-new 700 bravo chassis, 120.00 timney(or less if used. 1770.00, tops with new parts, for a custom action and match grade barrel.

There are a lot more good parts for a 700 clone action on the px, then there is for tikka. Meaning more savings on origin build than the tikka.

 

[Kamerad]

Well, I remember the pic of the broken bolt and owner said it was not a kaboom. Bolt simply broke. I consider it useful info cause tikka bolts, depending on configuration, can be a bitch to get. Sorry i didn't write down date and member name to prove it to you, fuckin eye roll. @clcustom1911 had to tig their tikka bolt back together 6-8mo ago on a thread here. Rifle rolled over on bench with bolt up, snapped handle off, actually breaking bolt body. There is a weak area there and the 10" roll over exploited it.

Apology accepted. Lol. Someone piss in your coffee?

 

[6brshooter]

Apology accepted. Lol. Someone piss in your coffee?

Lol, no apology implied, none given. You insinuate that since I didn't have full details of that bolt breakage, it doesn't count and I'm a liar. My coffee did taste funny this morning.....

 

[erikblank]

If I was starting all over I would buy a Tikka T3X Varmint 6.5 Creedmoor, put in a KRG Bravo, put in a $10 trigger spring, and get a local gunsmith to thread barrel. I would wear that barrel out learning. There are prefits now for Tikkas. I did this recently except I got a 223 for a trainer.

Change that to a CTR with a 24" barrel and I agree. I'm 1000 rounds into my and it still shoots .5 moa or better.

The barrels are hard to get off , but it can be done at home and it's much easier if you don't care about saving the old barrel.

 

[secm]

I plan to purchase my first PRS-type competition rifle by the end of the summer. I think 6.5mm Creedmoor is the right place for me to start because until I am competent at hand loading, the factory ammo is less expensive and the barrel life is a little longer that the smaller 6mm calibers. That said, I realize that the trend in PRS shooting is toward the smaller, lower-recoil caliber chamberings such as 6mm Creedmoor, 6mm Dasher, etc. I want to have the option of rebarreling the rifle in a smaller caliber myself once the original barrel is shot out, and for all subsequent barrel swaps if I move to calibers with shorter barrel life.

I've been reading the different posts here about at-home barrel changes. Bergara barrels sound like only Bergara can swap them, and it sounds like it is a serious pain to get the factory barrels off Tikkas T3xs, Howa M1500s, and maybe anything else other than a Ruger Precision Rifle, a Savage Model 10, an Accuracy International, or a Q The Fix. The AI and the Q are WAY out of my price range (I'm looking at $1200-1400), and I get the sense that the RPR and Savage are rifles that shooters move out of into something better. I have a friend recommending the Ruger M77 Hawkeye Long-Range, but I have read mixed opinions of the M77 action. Lacking a shop that stocks each of these rifles, it's difficult to get an idea of which rifle is the right place to start.

Things that are important to me are: an easily swappable barrel, upgradable trigger, able to fit into a stock/chassis such as the KRG Bravo or Oryx by MDT, and capable of consistent 1/2 MOA accuracy. Are those attributes attainable without doing a custom build on something like a Bighorn Origin or Defiance action?

What other factors do I need to consider to avoid purchasing the "wrong" rifle? What other questions should I be asking?

Thanks!

Not sure what your budget is but I shoot PRS, F CLASS AND BENCH REST. if your really interested I would strongly reccoment Bad Rock rifles. They are based on and partially owned by Defiant Machine, one of the best in the industry. If you have $2,000 to invest it would be hatd to beat them.

Second choice, Tikka T3x Tac 1. Can't beat it for $1,700

 

[secm]

The Mack bro’s stainless steel action went live today for $575, which includes recoil lug and 20 MOA rail. Unless that action seriously shits the bed (which I’d doubt), I see no reason to buy a factory Tikka/savage/Remington/[fill in the blank].

I’d buy the $575 action, get a bartlein (or your favorite brand) for $350, a triggertech primary for ~$125, a krg bravo for $350, and have a smith chamber & thread for $450. Full custom build for less than $2k.

Good idea!

 

[JLWalker]

I’m curious, why the Creedmore over the 260 Remington. Are not the 260’s ballistics better?

 

[6brshooter]

I’m curious, why the Creedmore over the 260 Remington. Are not the 260’s ballistics better?

Yes, if you handload. There are so many good factory 6.5creed loads and lapua creedmoor brass, the 260 is now old hat. Its a good rd, just like my 6mm favorite 243, but they both got passed up by factory support of creedmoor ammo.

 

[GearMaker]

Yes, if you handload. There are so many good factory 6.5creed loads and lapua creedmoor brass, the 260 is now old hat. Its a good rd, just like my 6mm favorite 243, but they both got passed up by factory support of creedmoor ammo.

Yep. That.

 

[ntwkprof]

I plan to purchase my first PRS-type competition rifle by the end of the summer. I think 6.5mm Creedmoor is the right place for me to start because until I am competent at hand loading, the factory ammo is less expensive and the barrel life is a little longer that the smaller 6mm calibers. That said, I realize that the trend in PRS shooting is toward the smaller, lower-recoil caliber chamberings such as 6mm Creedmoor, 6mm Dasher, etc. I want to have the option of rebarreling the rifle in a smaller caliber myself once the original barrel is shot out, and for all subsequent barrel swaps if I move to calibers with shorter barrel life.

I've been reading the different posts here about at-home barrel changes. Bergara barrels sound like only Bergara can swap them, and it sounds like it is a serious pain to get the factory barrels off Tikkas T3xs, Howa M1500s, and maybe anything else other than a Ruger Precision Rifle, a Savage Model 10, an Accuracy International, or a Q The Fix. The AI and the Q are WAY out of my price range (I'm looking at $1200-1400), and I get the sense that the RPR and Savage are rifles that shooters move out of into something better. I have a friend recommending the Ruger M77 Hawkeye Long-Range, but I have read mixed opinions of the M77 action. Lacking a shop that stocks each of these rifles, it's difficult to get an idea of which rifle is the right place to start.

Things that are important to me are: an easily swappable barrel, upgradable trigger, able to fit into a stock/chassis such as the KRG Bravo or Oryx by MDT, and capable of consistent 1/2 MOA accuracy. Are those attributes attainable without doing a custom build on something like a Bighorn Origin or Defiance action?

What other factors do I need to consider to avoid purchasing the "wrong" rifle? What other questions should I be asking?

Thanks!

The RPR is probably the best rifle in your stated price range...that being said, the Tikka TAC A1 has a MUCH better action and trigger so if you can up your price range a few hundred dollars, go with the Tikka. I purchased an RPR a few months age for under $1369. Here is the link:

Ruger TALO Model Precision Rifle 6.5 Creedmoor Desolve Camo 18025 - GUNPRIME %

buy Ruger TALO Model Precision Rifle 6.5 Creedmoor Desolve Camo 18025 for sale best price

gunprime.com

Another thing to consider here if you are planning on shooting PRS in the Production class is that the rifle list price of the rifle on the manufactures website cannot exceed $2000. I would read the current PRS rule book before moving forward if PRS is your goal.

Here is a link to a comparison between those two rifles:



I agree with the good and bad on the youtube video. The RPR cheek rest and stock are a pain, but easily replaced. In addition, I find that when cycling the bolt on the RPR, it takes me way off target. I didn't have this issue as much with my buddy's Tikka TAC A1 and really liked the Tikka trigger over the RPR trigger.

After deciding on a rifle, you'll need to decide on the optic. Again, ther is a price limitation for PRS Production class. Here is a link to a conversation on this forum about optics (I went with the Athlon Cronos BTR which lists for $1999, just within the PRS Production price limitations):

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/prs-production-class-scope-options.6947863/

Either way, you will have a great entry level rifle. Hope this helps.

 

[Landon]

I don’t shoot PRS but I do waste a lot of money upgrading rifles for long range shooting.

I moved from 308 to 6.5CM in a tikka CTR with a KRG and a trigger spring. Then when I figured out what I wanted I had it built...Defiance action, Lilia barrel, etc...

I started my son off with a Tikka 223 varmint threaded for a suppressor in a KRG. Lots of rounds down range and time learning. Still out highest volume rifle by far.

I would not look for a starter rifle to try and upgrade as you grow/ learn dumping a bunch of money into. You will be constantly upgrading, wasting time and never quite satisfied. If you go low cost/entry level use it, learn what you can, and then go all in on buying the right stuff.

If you know what you want/need right now save up and buy it. Buy quality stuff!!!

 

[10X Rifles]

Get a Defiance Tenacity Action. built in recoil lug. Remage barrel and nut . You can change barrels at your pleasure. Chassis of your choice. put it together and go shoot.
Go 6mm Creed over the 6.5 Creed. more velocity for the longer ranges and great choice of bullets. 1-7 twist barrel and you can shoot the 110 gr Sierra SMK.
I can get over 3100 fps with RL-16. Shoots best around 3050!

 

[Viktor J.]

Been there done that...In 1966 hired in at Chrysler and found work in a stamping plant under God awful conditions. My first paycheck was $87.00 which included overtime. At 19 was married and paying all of my own bills. I owned a 22rf, Savage bolt action rifle and fantasied over buying a 220 Swift. However, ended up ordering {from Gell's) a 30-06, 40XB from Remington ($286.00?) which back then took a year to make. The gentleman that took my order would take payments (every week) of $2.50 or more. This was my lunch money while working at Chrysler. Which meant I would go hungry in order to buy the gun. A year later, I had the Remington, but no scope, base and rings. Weaver was the only answer I could afford. Montgomery Wards supplied a $29.00, 3 X9 scope and Lee supplied the reloading dies. A very simple unit that could make decent ammunition. The Remington had a test target with the reloading information used. The very first group fired (by myself) was less than 1 inch. I had died and gone to heaven! However, as the years passed, strange new rifles bewitched me. And I sold my 40XB, since that was the only way, I could afford something new. Stupid move on my part. Where am I going with all this you might ask? Since then hundreds of guns have come and gone and many thousands have been spent. First best advise. Never allow yourself to be seduced by a new passing skirt, or the latest new rifle, that promises great joy. Both of these can bring serious regrets into your life. What I suggest is finding an older 40XB (in any caliber made before 1995?) in reasonable condition and give the old girl a chance. You might discover that she might not be as beautiful as before. But on the other hand, she can really cook! Recently, I found and old 40XB Range Master (made perhaps in late i1960's) in 243 Winchester in reasonable condition. Took the rifle home, cleaned up the stock, and mounted a 36 power Weaver T. Made some hand loads and off to the range I went. First group fired was less than 1/2 inch. However, a word of warning! In 2005, I ordered two 40XB'S from Remington. The guns delivered were God awful! Customer Service was terrible. On one occasion, I called the Custom Shop regarding these rifles. The person answering said he did not know what a 40XB was! Mike Walker must be rolling in his grave. So sad...

 

[spife7980]

 

[Jcrios014]

Everyone - thank you for all the time and thought you have put into responses so far. I think you have opened my eyes a lot--especially with so many recommendations for the custom route with an Origin action. They seem to be out of stock everywhere I look, so depending on when I start shooting matches, necessity/availability might also play a role in the decision. The Mason Dixon PRS match series isn't too far from me, so I will go watch a couple matches, talk to the shooters, and take lots of notes on what they are shooting and how they progressed equipment-wise. I'm looking forward to the adventure!

FWIW, there's a beginners match this Sunday (sold out) but if you reach out to the FB group I think they'll let you spectate.

 

[walt willis]

I can only share info that I know and have tested so I tell you what has worked for me at a neighbors range last year. After bore sighting a new CZ-550 I was asked to prove that I could shoot well. I was given hand loaded 168 BT HP loaded with Varget 44 grains of power. Three shots and one hole @ 100 yards. I super cleaned with Hoppies #9 solvent and then acetone followed by NuFinish car polish. I did use the set trigger for each shot. The follow up two shots were only 1/16 inch wider then the first hole at 1 o'clock and at 8. The trick may be to find the resonant frequency to match the load to the gun? It also helps to have a well made rifle too!

 

[GearMaker]

FWIW, there's a beginners match this Sunday (sold out) but if you reach out to the FB group I think they'll let you spectate.

I already had plans scheduled with the family, otherwise I would be there. I'm hoping to come watch the August 16 match and meet/talk to some of the shooters there. How often do they run a beginners match?

 

[Jcrios014]

I already had plans scheduled with the family, otherwise I would be there. I'm hoping to come watch the August 16 match and meet/talk to some of the shooters there. How often do they run a beginners match?

Gothca, this is their first one but I imagine there'll be more in the future. I'll be at the 7/26 and the 8/2 one.

 

[GearMaker]

Lots of recommendations on custom builds with actions such as Big Horn Origin, Defiance Tenacity, and Mack Brothers SS. What are the factors to consider in deciding between a custom action? Origin with the changeable bolt face is intriguing for caliber changes and the Mack Brothers pricepoint seems like a no-brainer, although apparently prefit barrels would need some work before they would fit this action if I understand correctly.

This question probably shows that I'm not ready to pick a custom action until I get more experience?

 

[Chickentoast]

I think with today's cnc machines, all actions and barrels have very similar potential. My stock Rem and Savage shoot in the 1's and 2's after load development, same as my full custom, 26lb Clay Spencer F/TR rifle. The deciding factors for me would be barrel replacement options, then the trigger and stock, or replacement options for each/both, followed by total cost. I would do a simple non-trued 700 action, barrel with nut, and a Triggertech Diamond or Jewell BR in a Bravo, because I like the feel of those triggers over the Tikka. TT feels like a CD and the Jewell feels like Vinyl, but both perfect (for me).

 

[Rio2019]

I am in much the same place as GearMaker, and just trying to make smart decisions about selecting my entry rifle for precision shooting. I read each post with great interest, and took away so many good recommendations from veteran shooters with great experience. I still have a great amount of research to do before I invest in this exciting sport. So thank you to all who contributed. You all have helped me move the dail on my shooting IQ.