Sidearms & Scatterguns Help me choose a new CCW pistol! *Update*

[Potss]

I'm looking to add a new CCW pistol to my rotation (along side a Cajun CZ P-01). My Cajun CZ PCR is getting retired as I'm moving to lights on all CCWs after some recent events (will probably sell it on the exchange, PM me if you want to get in early). The requirements are as follows:

1.) Must be able to have the slide milled for an RMR and irons. Irons must be behind the RMR, helps me pick up the dot.

2.) Must be able to attach a light of some variety (even small ones like the Viridian CTL, Olight PL-1 II Mini, Crimson Trace Rail Master, Surefire XC-1, or Streamlight TLR-3, or feel free to suggest more small quality lights) to the pistol.

3.) Must chambered in 9mm, and be able to handle my CCW load of choice the 127gr Winchester Ranger T +p+. The barrel must be 3in+ as well.

4.) Must be $1500 or less for the pistol alone (sorry Ed Brown fans).

5.) Must be at least a semi-compact, not much larger than a CZ P-01 max. Will be carried AIWB roughly 70% of the time, IWB, OWB, and belly band will also happen with some frequency depending on daily work/dress needs, and that is the ideal size.

6.) I'm a bit of a trigger snob on pistols, so basically whichever I end up getting will be sent off to get trigger work done (probably when the slide is milled). The focus is on getting rounds on target as fast and accurately as possible.

With those requirements, I've compiled a list of pistols that seem to fit the bill (I think, not 100% on all of them) as well as some basic information on them. I've gone out of my way to handle and shoot most of them. I've compiled them into a spreadsheet here for convenience. Before commenting you should really check it out, but I'll give a quick list below to make referencing easier:

• CZ P1-10 C
• CZ P-07
• Grand Power P1
• Kriss Sphinx SDP Compact Alpha
• Walther PPQ M2
• Glock 19 Gen 5
• Canik TP9SF Elite
• S&W M&P 2.0 Compact
• S&W M&P9c
• SIG P229 Legion
• Springfield Armory XD(M) Compact
• H&K P30 V0 or V3
• H&K P30SK
• H&K P2000SK
• H&K VP9SK
• Ruger American Pistol Compact
• Beretta Px4 Storm Compact Carry
• Steyr S9-A1
• Prime Group/Arsenal/Salient Stryk-B
• Rex Zero 1 Compact
• SiCo Maxim 9 (not small, but I'd still be interested in trying to carry it)
• Rock Island Armory TAC Ultra CS 9mm

We really are living in the golden age of firearms, there are just so many good choices! So, sell me on one. Which should I get and why? All comments are welcome, including updating the spreadsheet, and making other suggestions.

P.S. before you comment, yes the P320 compact and FNS/FNX C both qualify. I just don't really like either enough to buy and carry one.

 

[Spooky68]

I love love love my 229 Legion. I doubt you'll need the trigger job as it already has one. However it's on the top end sizewise of what I carry and with a rmr and a light I wonder if it will be a little uncomfortable AIWB

 

[Primus]

RMR are no where near reliable enough for a CCW gun, but to each his own. Stick enough shit on there you might as well carry a carbine.

 

[Potss]

The RMR, in my and many other's experience are certainly reliable enough once you ensure the battery contact issue is solved. Or you can buy an RMR 2 which has it solved from the factory. Which I will do for this firearm.

 

[Ledzep]

P30sk, VP9sk.

I don't know much about this RMR business, but those are the best feeling/shooting/most accurate "compact" pistols I've tried and/or owned.

 

[Primus]

The RMR, in my and many other's experience are certainly reliable enough once you ensure the battery contact issue is solved. Or you can buy an RMR 2 which has it solved from the factory. Which I will do for this firearm.

Negative. SOCOM spent millions testing MRD's on pistols and came to the conclusion that they are not reliable enough for use or issue.

On a range gun they are fine, on something you trust your life too, not so much.

 

[Potss]

Those SOCOM test are pretty old now are they not? The Deltapoint PRO and RMR 2.0 have not been evaluated by them as far as I know, but those who have are very impressed.

Ledzep, what pistols have you compared your H&Ks to? I'm very interested in a p30sk with some triggerwork done.

 

[C_R_Slacker]

If you're going to run an rmr and a light, first thing I would do is make sure you can find a holster you like that is offered for those guns you're interested in with the options you want. As long as you go with glock, s&w, Sig, hk, and maybe even CZ, finding a holster for rmr and light shouldn't be too hard. Some of the others on your list might be pretty hard to hunt down a holster for.

 

[Ledzep]

Those SOCOM test are pretty old now are they not? The Deltapoint PRO and RMR 2.0 have not been evaluated by them as far as I know, but those who have are very impressed.

Ledzep, what pistols have you compared your H&Ks to? I'm very interested in a p30sk with some triggerwork done.

S&W M&PC, Shield, XD, XDm, XDS, Glocks, P320C. The P320's feel really good to me. There's some buzz about dropping them lately I guess. I stumbled onto the fullsize VP9 looking for an XDm and fell in love. The P30 and VP series are very similar in feel; I think of them as pretty much the same gun with striker vs. hammer. I picked up the P30sk just before the VP9sk was announced. I have the DA/SA trigger and it's not the best feeling target trigger, but I like it for a CCW. Between a P30sk LEM and VP9sk you're really splitting hairs.

 

[Veer_G]

Negative. SOCOM spent millions testing MRD's on pistols and came to the conclusion that they are not reliable enough for use or issue.

On a range gun they are fine, on something you trust your life too, not so much.

I'd do a light/laser and tritium before I did a back of the slide optic. Too much room for failure and it isn't like a rifle where you just jump on the BUIS.

The HK P2000 and P30 variants are handy in the sk. I have two P2000s, a v1 P2000 and a v3 P2000sk. The light LEM kicks ass once you get used to it.

 

[Briggs]

Both of my rmr glock 19s are gtg. Equipped with suppressor sights and cowitness or use as buis is no problem. I have had problems with older rmr but the new ones are gtg so far for me. This is my carry gun. Can't weigh in on the others. I've always been a Glock guy. They just work for me.

 

[Primus]

The funny thing is, those who say they are gtg, don't know what they are talking about. Whats your sample size, how many rounds and what are the conditions?

Like I said, the military has spent Millions testing these under controlled conditions and the fact is, they do not hold up when run hard. The G and negative G forces on the optics from a recoiling slide beat them to death.

Despite the fact that a RMR is a game changer on speed, accuracy and follow up shots with a pistol, they don't run them due to the reliability issues.

Maybe one day in the future someone will come up with a better design or a different way to mount them, but we aren't there yet.

 

[dsouza411]

Keep it simple for your carry gun. I ran with an rmr on my 19 carry for a while and the rmr is no longer tagging along. Lent was a big issue, resulting in build up on the lens. The lent/fabric or even sweat became a magnet for the eyes when the gun came up. Could you work through it, absolutely, but throw lowlight conditions and a light into the mix and the problems became magnified. As a result I pulled the rmr, I gave it a fair chance practicing with it doing multiple drills in various conditions, this is my experience with carrying one.

 

[RampedRaptor]

Is there something in particular you want this new pistol to have that the P01 doesn't do/have?

I ask because my daily is a cajun P01 and it's tough for me to find anything that compares. The only thing I sometimes want is my old xds 45 back and that's just do to concealiabilty with the way I dress on some occasions.

 

[Potss]

Update is as follows.

Over the last month, I have been going to various rental ranges, borrowing from friends and family, and generally trying out as many pistols from my list (and off it) as possible against my Cajunized CZ P-01 as the constant. This process against reminded me of the massive importance of try before you buy especially with carry guns. Some expected favorites didn't do so well, and others really shined as I will detail below. But I want to make a serious point, that for what I've spent on rentals and ammo in the last month, I could easily have purchased some of the firearms on here and I would have been much worse off for doing so. If you have the means, it is well worth renting and/or borrowing as many possible CCW pistols as possible before you choose. I did the same thing 6 years ago when I went from a G19 to a CZ, and this recent process just reminded me against how important it is.

Alright, enough rambling, onto the notes. Disclaimer: all results are just my personal experience with my hands and training (90% of which is on glocks, steyrs, and CZs). Yours may be radically different, and I encourage you to not take my results as gospel, but try for yourself. Pistols I got to test (9mm unless denoted): S&W M&P9c and M&P 9c 2.0, Ruger American full size, H&K P30 V3, H&K VP9sk, H&K USP .40 full size, Springfield Armory XD(m) Compact 9mm, Steyr M9-A1, Glock 19 Gen 4, Glock 29 Gen 3 10mm, Beretta Px4 Storm Full size .45, Kimber Ultra CDP, Colt LW Commander, Sig P229 Nitron, Walther PPQ.

Pistols ranked in terms of accuracy at 7m-25m (slow and fast): Kimber>Colt>Springfield XDM>>CZ P-01>HK P30>SIG P229>Steyr M9A1>VP9SK>Walther PPQ=Glock 29>HK USP>Glock 19>M&P 2.0>Ruger American>Px4 Storm>M&P9c.

Pistols ranked in terms of trigger: Kimber>CZ (cajun)>Springfield XDM>Colt>Walther>Glock 19 (DK Custom)>Steyr>P229>HK VP9>Px4 Storm>Glock 29>HK P30>HK USP>Ruger American>>>M&Ps (2.0 not much better).

Pistols ranked in terms of ergos under firing, perceived recoil, and speed: Kimber>Colt>Springfield XDM>Steyr>Glock 19>CZ>>M&P2.0>>HK P30>PPQ>VP9sk>Ruger American>Px4 Storm>Glock 29 (no pinky extension in 10mm)>>HK USP.

There are some real standouts here that have helped me narrow my list considerably. First, Kimber has had QC issues for years now that have firmly dropped it out of the "high end" 1911 market. But this one was damn near perfect for hundreds of rounds, and holy shit did it shoot stunningly well in my hands. The officer frame was too small for my hand, so I will get a commander if I get a 1911, but even with that it was printing ragged holes at 15y mag after mag, and just felt so damn buttery smooth in recoil it was almost like I could track the front sight the entire time, making it very fast. Had an amazing trigger too. The Colt LW Commander wasn't far behind but even though it was larger the trigger and barrel (I think) left it lagging behind the kimber most of the time. Both really made the 1911 platform look very attractive even with all the obvious drawbacks like capacity and mags.

The other large standout is the Springfield Armory XDM. When I loaded up 13 rounds and went to shoot, my first five rounds tore one ragged hole in the center of an IPSC target's head at 10m, and that was without the pinky extension! I don't know why this pistol doesn't get talked about more than it does, because the trigger is hands down the best striker fired trigger I've felt. This is even when directly compared with the lauded PPQ, and a G19 with the DK custom carry trigger. It also has a deceptively low bore axis, and wasn't nearly as "flippy" (although none of the 9mms were really flippy, just compared to one another) as say the VP9sk or even P-01. What stunned me even more was the price, these things can be picked up for under $400!

Lastly, I have some general comments about most of the guns I shot:

- My EDC CZ P-01 with Cajun Pro & CZC grips: I thought it was going to clean house, and it didn't. Was always in the top 5, mostly in the top 3, but still lagging more than I would have thought or liked, and that is after thousands of rounds training. I have almost no time on 1911s and still outshot it, same with the XDM very shockingly. Now has me considering changing up my EDC entirely.

- S&W M&P9c: Terrible trigger, ergos are great though. I don't know if an APEX would fix this and how well. Also L&M Precision said they've seen high failure rates with APEX triggers in these.

- S&W M&P9c 2.0: Sand paper grip, I wouldn't ever want to wear this without a T-shirt. Trigger still awful, but not quite as bad as the 1.0s. Again, unsure of how much better the APEX would make it.

- Ruger American full size: A bland pistol which managed to be middle of the back of the pack in almost everything.

- H&K P30 V3: Disapointingly heavy and long DA and stage-y. SA is alright but not great. Not sure if Gray Guns would fix this, but 10-12 weeks and $365 for an already expensive gun doesn't make it very appealing. Also "flippier" than others. And the mag release was difficult.

- H&K VP9sk: Same as the P30 but with more flip. However the VP9sk trigger was better, but not as good as the Steyr or PPQ or XDM. Mag relase somehow even worse.

- H&K USP .40 full size: Somehow felt less controllable than the Glock 29 10mm with no pinky extension. I'm not sure why people spend the money they do on these.

- Springfield Armory XD(m) Compact 9mm: See notes above, a real standout and serious contender.

- Steyr M9-A1: Better than a Glock in every way, but a little top heavy without mag. Great trigger OOTB, again don't know why these aren't more popular. Almost as good as the PPQ trigger. Sadly this and the smaller S9-A1 are disqualified because they cannot mount a red dot on the slide.

- Glock 19 Gen 4: With the DK trigger this was very pleasant to shoot. Fast as well. But not very accurate. Came away with the same impression I did 6 years ago "why would I own one over a CZ P-01?"

- Glock 29 Gen 3 10mm: Amazingly good pistol. Even without a pinky extension it was a ton of fun to shoot, more than accurate enough, and felt like a much larger gun than it is (in a good way). Not the best trigger, but plenty of aftermarket for that. Speed was surprisingly good for 10mm, and has me seriously considering one for EDC or just a woods gun. I have no idea why people carry revolvers when the Glock 29 exists.

- Beretta Px4 Storm Full size .45: A pretty heavy DA trigger, but the SA was great. Not impressed by the felt recoil, which is supposed to be a selling point. The smaller compact carry is also disqualified for being a PITA to mount an RMR to the slide, but I wouldn't have gotten one anyways as these are FAT pistols.

- Kimber Ultra CDP & Colt LW Commander: see notes above, never thought I'd carry a 1911 but I might now.

- Sig P229 Nitron, great shooter, but flippier than the CZ and significantly larger. Came away with the same impression as 6 years ago "why would I own one over a P-01?"

- Walther PPQ: With all the hype I was pretty excited to try it. Trigger let me down a bit (although it is good, the XDM felt better to me) and the "flippiness" let me down more. It is also pretty sizeable, reminded me of the P229 in that respect.

Pistols I didn't get to try but still want to: CZ P10c, Stryk-B, and an M&P with an Apex trigger.

That is it for now, I will make another follow up thread with specifics on my next moves, hopefully after trying the P-10c.

Feel free to ask questions, discuss, and make any comments or recommendations with the above information you want.

 

[steve123]

It's only money, right. https://stiguns.com/guns/host-ds/

I used to try out all the older wondernines, etc, and gave up after a while because any other pistol I tried ends up kinda sucking compared to the 2011. I picked a Steyr M9A1 and a G42 for different reasons and I haven't sold them so they must be pretty good. I'd like to try the Stryk myself because I like the concept. I find the XDM likeable except it flips to much compared to the Steyr.

 

[346ci]

M&P9c with a Apex duty/carry kit, love it.

Are you against having a small light in your pocket vs. on the pistol? I carry a Streamlight Protac 2L in my left pocket, it has 3 modes of light that can be programmed to come on first.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

I think you owe it to yourself to at least dry fire the CZp07 and any 1911 in the dan wesson series. I have the p07 and size wise its like a g19 but in my hands its points so much better. I did some polishing on the trigger...but for your price range you can buy the p07 and throw a cajun trigger kit in for less than a lot of your listed options. The slide design really minimizes recoil and takes away the flip I get on many of the models you tested.

if you like the kimber (which i thought i did as well) you will absolutely love a Dan Wesson. Im like you and am a trigger snob but the DW is the only pistol I feel id never have to touch. It just does everything a bit better than the kimber and from the people i know who own one and everything ive read they don't have the break in required like the kimber and have far, far less reliability issues if any. Price wise will probably come in at the top of your pistol only budget but you won't have to touch a thing on it.

 

[Veer_G]

OP, I know that choosing a carry piece is a big deal, but you seem somewhat over the top, on the edge of an ordeal. Your must-have list might be more workable if you were to cut down a bit on the absolute deal-breakers.

Most gunfights are brief and close-range. Given that, a single-column magazine pistol isn't detrimental to the cause of your self defense. If that Kimber really tripped your trigger, why not give it a shot?

 

[Potss]

Thanks for the thoughts so far folks.

I'd love an STI, and will probably get one or something similar like a nighthawk...once the youngest is done with college in 5 years or so. Until then I just will not have the cash to throw at something like that.

I already have a SIG P238 for pocket carry which I absolutely love, shoots damn well for the weight/size.

I've tried P-07s and I come away with the same feeling I do on the Glock 19 "this is a very nice gun, but not nicer than my P-01."

I agree whole heatedly Veer_G, the guy who runs Active Self Protection (the YT channel that publishes real life shooting vids daily) said he's seen about 2000 gunfights and only in three were reloads needed, and two of those were by cops in situations a civi would likely never be in. That is part of why I'm allowing myself to fall for the better shooting 1911s. The way I see it with those kind of statistics, being first to get an accurate shot off matters way more than capacity (to a point). The part I'm having difficulty with is I keep reading about 1911 reliability, or lack there of. Or simply that they need a lot more care and attention to keep running properly, which I don't always have the time to give.

Keep up the suggestions and feedback folks, all are welcome.

 

[SharpsNitro]

If you liked the Kimber but fear the quality/reliability (and rightly so) you should give Dan Wesson a look. They are very good value for the money.

 

[Potss]

I have a thread going on 1911 forum for just that very question: https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=861625

I'm just not sure what a DW does better than a Ruger or SA other than "fit and finish" and a slightly better trigger? I'm a 1911 n00b so I really am not sure.

 

[Hogrider2000]

I carry a Glock 23C w a surefire lite/laser conbo in a Raven Concealment holster, have about 20K rounds thru it and NO FTF or any other malfunctions. Only shoot factory ammo.

Currently testing a Glock 19 that was custom buikt by Bore sight Solutuions. So far no issues. Will not carry it until I have 2K rounds thru it. the 19 has a lite also.

NO RMR, tried it and could not get used to it, My night sites work fine

 

[RampedRaptor]

As for the range officer vs dan Wesson:

I owned a range officer with some small upgrades and then sold it when I thought I was going to get away from 45acp. A couple years later I bought a DW specialist 45acp.

DW cost more, looks better and feels a lot smoother. However, I can't shoot the difference between the 2. As long as Springfield didn't lower the quality on the RO I think it's a Best Buy for a 1911 that's purpose is function.

I havent had a reliability issue with either and did shoot the RO in a couple uspsa matches. Very accurate.

The only reason why I don't carry a 1911 is the safety. I don't train or want to be in a situation where I have to do anything other than pull the trigger to make the gun go off (aiming/pointing would be a plus I guess).

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

concealed carrying eith an rmr?

anyway,

not a Glock fan, but when it has to work - Glock

love my S&W shield performance center w/ straight eight ameriglos

check out Kahr too.

save the other $1000 for holsters and ammo

check out underwood ammo, extreme defender.

 

[jrassy]

Op, I like what your doing, but I'm a basic man myself, a M&P shield in 45, night sites, lots of practice, muscle memory, lots of practice. I like the list and would agree with several observations you have made. Good luck in your quest.

 

[Millworks]

Sometimes simplicity is best. A good handgun will work until you can retreat to your truck for your carbine. Otherwise if the bad guy is seven feet away what do you really need to end the threat?

 

[MtnCreek]

You liked the G29, so try a G30. Softer recoil and you get a pinky extension. Fat slide is the only downside.

 

[Veer_G]

Sometimes simplicity is best. A good handgun will work until you can retreat to your truck for your carbine. Otherwise if the bad guy is seven feet away what do you really need to end the threat?

Lots of garlic in your diet?

 

[Jigstick]

RMR are no where near reliable enough for a CCW gun, but to each his own. Stick enough shit on there you might as well carry a carbine.

my thoughts exactly.

I love my HK USPs and Sig P228s. Haven't seen a need to change.

 

[IanHusaberg]

I'm going to say Canik tp-9sf elite. I purchased a tp-9sfx this summer and it easily the best stock trigger i've ever had the pleasure of pulling. I've heard the trigger is even better on the elite. I've been looking to pick one up. I can't miss targets at 25 yards with iron sights. The long sight radius doesn't hurt. Can't wait to try the elite.

 

[padom]

I love my SIG's. I send them all to SIG custom shop for the action enhancement package, short reset trigger and 11 degree barrel crown. Trigger is amazing and it's super accurate. Done this to my P226, P229, P239 and wouldn't have it any other way. My P229 is my favorite and love carrying it. SIG's factory triggers are great but after the AEP AND SRT they are amazing.

I carry a stock Glock19 with night sights but own a second G19 all tricked out with SI RMR milled slide, LW threaded barrel, RM06, suppressor sights, SI Trigger and internals. It's one fun and accurate suppressor host at the range but would never carry it.

 

[Millworks]

Lots of garlic in your diet?

Just my opinion. I have been told by people who do this stuff for a living to use the KISS method keep it simple stupid. Again that is a quote of someone’s opinion.

 

[Veer_G]

Just my opinion. I have been told by people who do this stuff for a living to use the KISS method keep it simple stupid. Again that is a quote of someone’s opinion.

Good grief. I wasn't making fun of your response. It was simply a humorous observation. Aimed fire in self-defense at seven feet should more properly be pointed fire achieved with whatever you find in your fist that functions.

 

[Jigstick]

ghillieman recommends a Browning HiPower

 

[Alphatreedog]

I'm going to say Canik tp-9sf elite. I purchased a tp-9sfx this summer and it easily the best stock trigger i've ever had the pleasure of pulling. I've heard the trigger is even better on the elite. I've been looking to pick one up. I can't miss targets at 25 yards with iron sights. The long sight radius doesn't hurt. Can't wait to try the elite.

I've held and dry fired one and feels pretty good . For the price I may pick one up . As for carry I got plenty of hours on my 9mm Firestar Plus and 45 xd . Don't see the need to fix it . But if it worked out for reliability I would say good ccw candidate .

 

[Pattillo123]

Glock 19 with a zev starter kit installed.

 

[jrassy]

Glock 19 with a zev starter kit installed.

That's one of my winter projects, Gen 2 G19 is gonna get some ZEV guts, VICKERSsights and some stippling.

 

[Desert_Racer]

I did the RMR thing for a while on an FNX-45T I had. Obviously not a carry gun, but here are my thoughts on running an RMR, based off of my experience:

- In order for you to be effective with an RMR, you need to practice... a lot. You have to press and align the optic just right in order to pick up the dot. Until you get this down to the point of muscle memory, irons are faster. Realistically, you probably aren't even going to aim if you need to use your ccw, as your engagement will most likely be within 10 yards or less, so its a moot point in my opinion.

- RMRs can be a significant snag point if you aren't cognizant of where it is and where it will be as the weapon cycles, IE catching it off of a car door or snagging it off your shirt/jacket if forced to fire immediately after drawing from the holster and shooting from the hip on up. This can be enough to cause a malfunction that could cost you your life.

- Possibly more difficult to conceal, and more limited in holster selection.

For those reasons, I won't ever run an RMR on a ccw, and probably ever again in general. Just a personal preference.

As for platform selection, I limit my choices to pistols that are priced at or below $600. The reason is, if I have to use it and it gets taken for evidence, or even stolen out of my truck, I'm not going to be heartbroken. Losing a G19 I paid $499 for under the blue label program is an easier pill to swallow than losing an $1100 P229. Why someone would want to carry an STI and run the risk of losing a $2800 pistol is beyond me. Hell, if you lose a G19 with an RMR, trigger and suppressor height sights, you're going to be out well over $1000. Save the nice ones for the range, matches, or for class.

Pick something that is light, has a respectable magazine capacity, is dead reliable, relatively easy to conceal and reasonably priced. Buy a bunch of ammo and go practice with it. Its really not a difficult decision.

 

[spaniel]

If you like the Kimber, get the Kimber. People need to stop taking internet complaints as gospel. Yes, stress test the gun before putting in in rotation. But I have a Kimber Eclipse, and outside of the first 2 mags it has been flawless. To pressure test it I decided to go as long as I could without cleaning to see when it malfunctioned. At somewhere need 2K rounds, I started to have the occasional failure. The gun was pig dirty, embarrassing. Cleaned it up, and back to 100% mag after mag.

With a 40 or 10mm you have 10 rounds on board with a Tripp 9-rd mag. That's more than many people carry in their small pistols these days. I don't feel under-gunned with 10 rounds of 10mm; my typical alternate is a Shield with 6 rounds of 40.

 

[Litshoot]

Cajunize a p07. It' a little lighter than your p01, it' 17+1, can also use p09 mags for 21 rounds. You know the how good the trigger is, especially before cajun does their magic with the slide cut and the trigger.
seth

 

[MosesTheTank]

It's only money, right. https://stiguns.com/guns/host-ds/

I used to try out all the older wondernines, etc, and gave up after a while because any other pistol I tried ends up kinda sucking compared to the 2011. I picked a Steyr M9A1 and a G42 for different reasons and I haven't sold them so they must be pretty good. I'd like to try the Stryk myself because I like the concept. I find the XDM likeable except it flips to much compared to the Steyr.

STI has always put out some great guns, but their current DVC line-up is simply outstanding. For CCW I like the DVC carry (https://stiguns.com/guns/dvc-carry/). A 2011 is my first choice for almost everything except when clothing absolutely dictates a 1911. Though for competing I go with Akai and Atlas over STI.

Another way to get a good look at different guns is to attend competitions. A lot of shooters will be happy to let you try theirs and talk about why they chose their particular set up. Of course very few will have a CCW pistol unless it's IDPA. However, getting into the differences between various grips, triggers, mag wells, optics/sights, side design choices, etc. will help you tremendously.

Veer is exactly right, most gun fights are over very quickly and the likelihood of requiring a mag change is very small. For this reason I only have mag wells on the smallest of my carry 1911s. But when time gets very small, differences between guns and how well you shoot them becomes very large, even for a single draw and double tap.

For about three years I showed up to competitions with a different pistol every time with the idea of being able to shoot well with any gun, any time. I brought various Glocks, SIGs, 1911s, 2011s, Makarovs, M&P... with everything from duty holsters, CCW set-ups, to open gun rigs. While this was a lot of fun, as far as scores/speed/accuracy I would have performed far better by choosing and sticking with a single platform. I currently only shoot Limited and Limited 10 with a 2011. I shoot 2-3 competitions/week and average about 800 rounds/week. I can tell you from a lot of experience that changing platforms, even slightly, slows things down. Get a platform and get really good with it. A production GM with a nearly stock G17/XDM/M&P is far more fearsome than a better than an average Joe with the best custom 1911 and a race rig.

There is some frequently given good advice here on the Hide regarding rifles: if you have a $3,000 budget, do you get a RPR and NF SHV with some ammo or get a used Savage, SWFA and a whole lot more ammo? Get the one that allows you to train a whole lot more. I love 2011s and they are faster than any gun you listed, but that does not mean they are the best answer for you right now.

Whatever platform you go with I think the below is more important than the gun itself:

1. Compete regularly. There is no need to have an expensive race rig. The value of comparing and refining your technique under the clock is very difficult to get while practicing by yourself. You will learn from people who are far better than you and from those who absolutely suck. It will also make you a safer shooter.

2. Use a timer. It is one of the best objective tools you can get and for very little expense. People are often mistaken when they observe that something "feels" faster or slower. The clock does not lie. It measure progress. It allows you to record standards and baselines to measure over time. You should know the time break-down of every part of your shooting and work on your weaknesses.

3. Be open to experiment. steve123 and I may prefer the same platform but I am almost 100% positive that our skeletons are not the same. The best angle between my elbow and lats when beginning the draw stroke will be larger or smaller... how far does the pistol have to pivot to hit the mag release, and maybe this is mitigated by a different mag release button, or maybe I just take a Dremel to the grip... Use other peoples rigs when you can

4. Classifiers are meant to be equalizers and you should practice them, but never forget the limitations of standards drills vs real world drills. You are not going to just square up and shoot if someone is trying to kill you, you are more likely going to pick up your feet and shoot while moving. Competitions are a game. A very useful game.

Know the good, the bad, and the ugly. One of my compatriots posted the 1st video below in another thread and it set off a firestorm[SUP](1)[/SUP]. I think it is useful in so far it is a great example of so much that sucks. The 2nd video is the other extreme by one of my favorite people in the shooting world, and is almost God-like. The 3rd represents a respectable more real world drill (beginning at 0:25) that is definitely worth a view and adopting into a training regimen (and looks like JJ Racaza on a slow day?). All three vidoes have their lessons.











[SUP](1)[/SUP]https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...in-the-chamber

 

[MULLINS2171]

I look it like this. I carry a gun for a living and have for about 15 years. I don't work in my yard without a pistol on my side. KEEP IT SIMPLE!!! My go to is a glock with nightsights and a light. The light is there to verify a threat is a threat not to pour constant light on situation. At the stance of 7 to 10 feet that most self defense scenarios happen sights shouldn't even come into play. It should be muscle memory.

 

[Polizei45]

SIG P365. It has every thing you need.