Help me Comprehend Silencer Advice

[Buck Wilde]

I want to get a silencer to protect my ears. Mainly, it would be used on an RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor. I would be shooting from a bench or platform in my yard. No Chris Kyle stuff.

I know nearly nothing about silencers. It seems very complicated. Apparently, some can be used for multiple calibers, and there are different ways of attaching them. I didn't know they could be used along with brakes, but I found that out yesterday.

I want decent noise suppression and no interference with accuracy. Those are the big priorities. I would like to be able to use the silencer with .308 and other calibers ranging down to .204 if possible.

I emailed a silencer vendor for advice. I wonder if people here could help me understand the reply:

I would go with the Dead Air Sandman S. Then you will need 2 additional Dead Air muzzle breaks. 1 in 5/8x24 and a 2nd in 1/2x28

I have no idea why I need two additional brakes or why they would take different threads. Any clues?

 

[Huskydriver]

So the dead air can can quickly be moved from one barrel to the next and attaches to the muzzle device. Typically 223 caliber barrels are threaded 1/x28 larger barrels are 308 are typically 5/8x24.

Personally I would do your research that would not be my first can. I would be looking at a tbac Magnus, able co. Theorem, or otter creek personally def do some googling here and read up

 

[Buck Wilde]

Thanks for the help. I am looking for info wherever it can be found. Hard to think of a better place than this forum.

 

[razerface]

I have the dead air S and an L. I bought both in .308 and use them on .308 and .223/5.56. I shoot without earpro unless i am on my porch with walls which increases the noise level. 99.9% of my shooting is outdoors in the open. Inside will be much louder.

Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that it will not affect your accuracy. I do not mind that as I always have the suppressor on. What I found is on some of my guns. It will change point of impact from suppressor on and suppressor off. I always have suppressor on. You will hate to shoot without it after you own it.

I have zero regrets on buying dead air

 

[Buck Wilde]

Thanks. I don't care if it changes the point of impact, since I would expect to use the silencer all the time. I just want to leave the precision alone.

 

[Buck Wilde]

I found a good video from Midwest Gun Works. Might help other people.

 

[trob]

I would get a HuxWrx flow before I would get a dead air sandman again. I am issued the sandman (since 2020). The dead air is a robust can and does fine, but flow-through is the future

FWIW I have not had any accuracy issues with my dead air sandman. I use it on a bolt gun and an AR

 

[Buck Wilde]

Thanks for the suggestion. Still reading up.

 

[the_assman]

for the shooting your describing take a look at the diligent defense enticer-L Ti or the thunder beast ultra 9

 

[jmw]

if you want it very quiet get a tbac Magnus

 

[Asiparks]

Alright, I’ll be the first to mention PewScience…
His “Pew Rating” gets lots of grief, but his methodology and measurements are done with consistency, so you are getting an apples to apples comparison when you’re looking at the numbers posted in the comparison charts.
I skip some of the technical discussion as it’s frankly beyond me, but the summary paragraphs, helpfully in bold type, at the end give great insight into the pros and cons of flow through vs high pressure va newer printed hybrid designs .

 

[chevy_man]

Thanks. I don't care if it changes the point of impact, since I would expect to use the silencer all the time. I just want to leave the precision alone.

You're changing barrel harmonics so you may need to adjust your load.

I have only had one instance where it had a decrease to accuracy, and that was a 308 can on a .19 Calhoun.
A different can in 223 and it came right back.


I have just gone ahead and done load development with all my rifles with cans attached since.

 

[mtwarych]

Back in 2018 my son talked me into purchasing a suppressor before the 2020 election.

At that time the only experience I had was with my sons Sico Omega 300. I was impressed with the performance and sound of the Omega and purchase one for myself. The light physical weight and sound suppression is why I bought the Omega. Stamp included, I paid $899. The Sico muzzle devices needed for the quick change options are about $95 a peice and you will need one for each rifle you want to use the can on.

Sico has a program that with my military service saved me $200 on the price of the can. I used that $200 to pay for my stamp.

I use the Omega on 223, 5.56, 6.5 grendel, 6.5 creed, 257 roberts, 270win, 7mm mag, 300blk, 308win and a 300winmag. I got craphouse lucky because the changes in point of impact between suppressed/unsuppressed is only a click or two off and I didn't need to work-up new loads for any of the above chamberings.

I use the quick change Sico flash suppressor and "compensator" so I can easily switch which firearm I feel like shooting suppressed at the moment.

I have heard that using a quick change instead of direct thread can also help direct some of the burning gasses away from the first baffle in the stack. I believe it's called a blast baffle. Hopefully someone can confirm or deny if this is true.

 

[Krob95]

My buddy has a sandman and that bitch is a loudencer. I’d opt for something actually quiet that actually has some company support. Thunderbeast Ultra 9, Dominus, Magnus. The Magnus is the quietest of the three listed and I own both the Magnus and ultra 9. Theyre both excellent but if money is no object, get the Magnus. The ottercreek cans also have pretty good reviews as well and are much cheaper.

The tbac cans can be had in 3-4 different mounting options as well. Direct thread, CB brake, HUB mount, and on the dominus and Magnus, an SR version.

 

[Bluedog82]

@Buck Wilde hopefully my video here can be of help to you.

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[NateVA]

Alright, I’ll be the first to mention PewScience…
His “Pew Rating” gets lots of grief, but his methodology and measurements are done with consistency, so you are getting an apples to apples comparison when you’re looking at the numbers posted in the comparison charts.
I skip some of the technical discussion as it’s frankly beyond me, but the summary paragraphs, helpfully in bold type, at the end give great insight into the pros and cons of flow through vs high pressure va newer printed hybrid designs .

I forget what that one went over but a bunch of suppressor manufacturers recently got together and did their own agreed upon testing. The tl;dr is if you're looking for max suppression get either a TBAC Magnus or an OCL Hydrogen-L I think.

I'll link both the study and the SH thread where people were discussing it.

Suppressors - 2023 Silencer Summit Results

There has already been some discussion of this. Here are the results. https://thunderbeastarms.com/sound/summit2023/ It is fully documented and should be self explanatory.

www.snipershide.com

https://thunderbeastarms.com/sound/summit2023/

 

[carbonbased]

1) Don’t shoot without ear protection, regardless if you have a a suppressor mounted. The supersonic crack will slowly destroy your hearing.

1.5) Do NOT obsess over decibel reduction. If smart, you will still be wearing ear pro. Thus, you will probably not notice the relatively small differences in different can’s decibel reduction.

The blast reduction that a suppressor provides is what you are after. Ignore the Pew Science rabbit hole and other comparos.

2) Unless you are in some sort of extreme hurry or a total threading klutz, buy direct thread cans and save money. No need to buy muzzle brakes/flash hiders/tapered threads…you just need 1/2x28 or 5/8x24 muzzle threading. Choose the latter for everything with a thick enough barrel to minimize any effect on the bore (more metal left).

The only exception, possibly, for a normal person is if shooting an AR or other semi-auto that might shake the suppressor a little loose. I went with a Surefire RC3 (in jail still) for my AR.

3) Buy a TBAC 30cal for a precision bolt gun. I have a Banish 30 (for 308 to 204) which is nice and is a take-apart can, but I think if starting over a Magnus or Ultra 9 or 7 would be the way to go. One free cleaning a year. Pretty stellar rep. Dead Air has changed OEM’s and has reportedly had lots of weird CS problems.

If you want to go HUB to preserve your future options, there are HUB direct thread adapters. HUB is just an interior thread on the backside of the can (muzzle end) that allows one to choose different adapters.

4) Install direct thread cans this way: thread till can stops moving. Back off 1/2 turn. Then tighten hard. If the can wants to walk off during firing, then after the barrel warms up (like 5 shots) then loosen can and snap it tight again.

 

[carbonbased]

My buddy has a sandman and that bitch is a loudencer.

Lol that cracked me up

 

[Clayman]

I want to get a silencer to protect my ears. Mainly, it would be used on an RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor. I would be shooting from a bench or platform in my yard. No Chris Kyle stuff.

I know nearly nothing about silencers. It seems very complicated. Apparently, some can be used for multiple calibers, and there are different ways of attaching them. I didn't know they could be used along with brakes, but I found that out yesterday.

I want decent noise suppression and no interference with accuracy. Those are the big priorities. I would like to be able to use the silencer with .308 and other calibers ranging down to .204 if possible.

I emailed a silencer vendor for advice. I wonder if people here could help me understand the reply:



I have no idea why I need two additional brakes or why they would take different threads. Any clues?

Imo do not buy a sandman s or ask that vendor for advice ever again. It's a heavy hard use can but the company is going through problems atm.

Do you care about length, weight, shooting at night (Ti will spark) or anything else you might want to prioritize?

If length is not important here are a few silencers you can look into. These are in the 8-9"ish range.

TBAC Magnus hub
Diligent Defense Enticer L (stainless or Ti)
Resilient Suppressors Jolene
Otter Creek Labs Hydrogen L

If you'd rather have a 6-7"ish silencer look into these.

CAT ODB (inconel or Ti)
CGS Helios qd Ti
Diligent Defense Enticer S (Stainless or Ti)
Otter Creek Labs Hydrogen S
Liberty precision machine Anthem S

For mounting, depending on the silencer you go with I'm a big fan of taper mounts.

Rearden Atlas mounting system I'm a big fan of.

I'll be trying CAT's 1x16lh taper mounts very soon. Similar mounting system to rearden but with left hand threads.

 

[tlg308]

Abel Co Theorem L. You’ll never buy another can.

 

[Mr. F]

Abel Co Theorem L. You’ll never buy another can.

Fact

 

[Ape_Factory]

Take a look at the Thunderbeast big test (link below). I would avoid anything Dead Air at all costs due to the problems that company is having (I've had recent, first hand experience and own a Dead Air can). I have Huxwrx, Dead Air and Diligent Defense.

If it's for a bolt gun, go with a standard baffle can like the Diligent Defense Enticer L. If it's for a gas gun, you'll want a low back pressure can since it won't affect function. If it's for both, get a low back pressure can like Huxwrx or Radical Defense. The new RD stuff is really good as is the Huxwrx Flow 762.

 

[stello1001]

I would get a TBAC ultra 7 or TBAC dominus.

The reason you were told to get 2 different muzzle attachments is because you mentioned mounting the suppressor on a .204. Most .204s don't have the same thread pattern as the larger calibers such as the 6.5s or 308s. If all your rifles are muzzle threaded with the same thread patterns, one muzzle device will suffice. Of course, you'll have to move it from rifle to rifle wherever you're mounting the suppressor.

So you need to figure this out first. Find out what thread patterns your rifles have, then you'll know what type or how many muzzle devices you'll need.

Then just order your TBAC suppressor through silencershop which makes the whole process easy, and order the 2 (or 1) muzzle devices you'll need. Most times, the suppressor itself will come with one. Look into that and select the one with the thread pattern you need if it does indeed come with one.

Have fun and good luck!

 

[Jcreid06]

Abel Co Theorem L. You’ll never buy another can.

I’d strongly disagree. Not on your choice of suppressor but on the never buy another one. Suppressors are like ferral pigs. One turns into a dozen in no time.

Best advice would be if you know different people with different cans to go shoot with. See which one you think sounds best.

From what you have mentioned, your style of shooting would be just fine with a direct thread. I really like TBAC suppressors. Used em for work and personal. Have a dominus that I really like. And if I was going to grab one suppressor from my safe to use, that’s my go to. Though, I have a nomad30 that is extremely quiet. I wouldn’t hesitate to get another one. I have a KGM in jail and a couple sandman Ks as well. Absolutely without hesitation do not get a K sized can for your mentioned application.

The suppressor market has come an extremely long ways in the last 5-10 years. There are a bunch of really good manufacturers now. I personally think TBAC is the top or near the top but others may disagree and like something better. One that I’ll be looking at is a huxwrx. Have some guys I used to work with that just switched from sandmans to huxwrx and they love em.

Just my 0.02. Take it for what it’s worth.

 

[Newbie2020]

I love my Dead air nomad-L with e-brake. Huge decibel reduction. Decent mid-range price tag too.

 

[Buck Wilde]

I have a .22 silencer on the way, but the high-powered picture is complicated, so I am still returning here to keep up with helpful posts.

 

[Oldguy03]

Consider looking at the Thunder Beast Ultra 9 or the Diligent Defense Enticer-L Ti for the shooting you are describing.

 

[Asiparks]

1) Don’t shoot without ear protection, regardless if you have a a suppressor mounted. The supersonic crack will slowly destroy your hearing.

1.5) Do NOT obsess over decibel reduction. If smart, you will still be wearing ear pro. Thus, you will probably not notice the relatively small differences in different can’s decibel reduction.

true

The blast reduction that a suppressor provides is what you are after. Ignore the Pew Science rabbit hole and other comparos.

right... and how do we measure the pressure of the blast, and the effect of the suppressor on it, both at the muzzle and the ear ?
So that's why some type of comparison between suppressors, done with consistency, has value. Not just dB, but also back-pressure values.
Either the Hide one linked by Ape Factory above, or those done by PewScience, give a far more objective overview of how different suppressors perform, than any one posters opinions on what they thought sounded nice.

2) Unless you are in some sort of extreme hurry or a total threading klutz, buy direct thread cans and save money. No need to buy muzzle brakes/flash hiders/tapered threads…you just need 1/2x28 or 5/8x24 muzzle threading. Choose the latter for everything with a thick enough barrel to minimize any effect on the bore (more metal left).

The only exception, possibly, for a normal person is if shooting an AR or other semi-auto that might shake the suppressor a little loose. I went with a Surefire RC3 (in jail still) for my AR.

3) Buy a TBAC 30cal for a precision bolt gun. I have a Banish 30 (for 308 to 204) which is nice and is a take-apart can, but I think if starting over a Magnus or Ultra 9 or 7 would be the way to go. One free cleaning a year. Pretty stellar rep. Dead Air has changed OEM’s and has reportedly had lots of weird CS problems.

If you want to go HUB to preserve your future options, there are HUB direct thread adapters. HUB is just an interior thread on the backside of the can (muzzle end) that allows one to choose different adapters.

4) Install direct thread cans this way: thread till can stops moving. Back off 1/2 turn. Then tighten hard. If the can wants to walk off during firing, then after the barrel warms up (like 5 shots) then loosen can and snap it tight again.

Or just tighten hard

 

[Newbie2020]

I prefer direct thread. I lube the threads with heavy white grease. Hand tighten. Check tightness by hand by grabbing over the suppressor cover “every so often…”

I’ve had it loosen a quarter turn once.

 

[carbonbased]

right... and how do we measure the pressure of the blast, and the effect of the suppressor on it, both at the muzzle and the ear ?

Yeah, this is where the nerd in all of us meets practical experience.

Believe me, I research the crap of stuff, way more than anyone I know. People come to me to research stuff or to get advice on what to buy. I’m sure there’s more extreme versions of me, but you get the idea.

What I’m saying is…the obsession over comparison can lead to analysis paralysis and research becomes a hobby (end) in and of itself.

With certain things, I finally pull my head off of the microscope, throw my hands up, and realize it’s probably not worth sweating every single metric. And I go buy something and shoot more.

Instead of suppressor metrics and listening to that Pew Science can’t-get-to-the-point-and-constantly-self-promoting doofus, I find this sort of video infinitely more enlightening, especially from a back pressure point of view:


I guess the one time I’d sweat the small (dB) suppressor stuff etc is if I am going to shoot it without ear pro. But IMHO that practice is dumb if you aren’t forced into it.

Just relax, put the spreadsheets down, and buy the can that attaches the way you like, fits your length (and other) requirements, comes from a company that has been around a while, and that you trust.

And remember, this is coming from that guy in lots of gear research.

 

[NiteQwill]

I have too many cans to count (dozens and dozens???)...

In my honest opinion, one company stands out above the rest: Thunderbeast (TBAC)

 

[Asiparks]

Yeah, this is where the nerd in all of us meets practical experience.

Believe me, I research the crap of stuff, way more than anyone I know. People come to me to research stuff or to get advice on what to buy. I’m sure there’s more extreme versions of me, but you get the idea.

What I’m saying is…the obsession over comparison can lead to analysis paralysis and research becomes a hobby in and of itself.

With certain things, I finally pull my head off of the microscope, throw my hands up, and realize it’s probably not worth sweating every single metric. And I go buy something and shoot more.

Instead of suppressor metrics and listening to that Pew Science can’t-get-to-the-point-and-constantly-self-promoting doofus , I find this sort of video infinitely more enlightening, especially from a back pressure point of view:


I guess the one time I’d sweat the small (dB) suppressor stuff etc is if I am going to shoot it without ear pro. But IMHO that practice is dumb if you aren’t forced into it.

Just relax, put the spreadsheets down, and buy the can that attaches the way you like, fits your length (and other) requirements, comes from a company that has been around a while, and that you trust.

And remember, this is coming from that guy in lots of gear research.

I don't fundamentally disagree with anything you've said- but....
There's a level of commitment buying one, beyond other gear...They're not cheap, it generally takes many months to get one and once you have it, you're pretty much stuck with it- no take backs....
So for suppressor purchases, I'm a little more geeky.


PewScience is a lot to take in- I don't listen to the podcast acts or YouTubes- rather just look at the dbs and back pressure of silencer A vs B vs C, knowing they're measured consistently, see how long /heavy/expensive they are.

 

[30calDeath]

Alright, I’ll be the first to mention PewScience…
His “Pew Rating” gets lots of grief, but his methodology and measurements are done with consistency, so you are getting an apples to apples comparison when you’re looking at the numbers posted in the comparison charts.
I skip some of the technical discussion as it’s frankly beyond me, but the summary paragraphs, helpfully in bold type, at the end give great insight into the pros and cons of flow through vs high pressure va newer printed hybrid designs .

His stuff while most likely very accurate takes a translator to understand. So I don't even pay attention to his findings. He needs to put it in layman's terms for the normal guy/gal.

 

[Asiparks]

His stuff while most likely very accurate takes a translator to understand. So I don't even pay attention to his findings. He needs to put it in layman's terms for the normal guy/gal.

are we at high school, shitting on the smart kids again ?
I'm a layman, the website is clear,- go to the "lab staff opinion" at the end of any review for a quick summation or look at the comparative silencer v silencer ratings...If you're technically minded, all the detail stuff is there - if you can't be arsed to put minimal effort in, or Youtube is peak learning, then throw your money at whatever

or look at the searchable rankings.....

If anyone right now can offer up better/ clearer/ more comprehensive reviews, then they should get on with it, I'll be a subscriber- sure many others will be grateful.

 

[30calDeath]

Alright, I’ll be the first to mention PewScience…
His “Pew Rating” gets lots of grief, but his methodology and measurements are done with consistency, so you are getting an apples to apples comparison when you’re looking at the numbers posted in the comparison charts.
I skip some of the technical discussion as it’s frankly beyond me, but the summary paragraphs, helpfully in bold type, at the end give great insight into the pros and cons of flow through vs high pressure va newer printed hybrid designs .

His stuff while most likely very accurate takes a translator to understand. So I don't even pay attention to his findings. He needs to put it in layman's terms for the normal guy/gal

are we at high school, shitting on the smart kids again ?
I'm a layman, the website is clear,- go to the "lab staff opinion" at the end of any review for a quick summation or look at the comparative silencer v silencer ratings...If you're technically minded, all the detail stuff is there - if you can't be arsed to put minimal effort in, or Youtube is peak learning, then throw your money at whatever

View attachment 8312727 or look at the searchable rankings.....

View attachment 8312735


If anyone right now can offer up better/ clearer/ more comprehensive reviews, then they should get on with it, I'll be a subscriber- sure many others will be grateful.

I must have struck a nerve lol

 

[carbonbased]

are we at high school, shitting on the smart kids again ?
I'm a layman, the website is clear,- go to the "lab staff opinion" at the end of any review for a quick summation or look at the comparative silencer v silencer ratings...If you're technically minded, all the detail stuff is there - if you can't be arsed to put minimal effort in, or Youtube is peak learning, then throw your money at whatever

View attachment 8312727 or look at the searchable rankings.....

View attachment 8312735


If anyone right now can offer up better/ clearer/ more comprehensive reviews, then they should get on with it, I'll be a subscriber- sure many others will be grateful.

Jay, is that you?

Below is what @kthomas and I think of Mr. Pew Pew. He’s focused on the numbers and I’m irked by the delivery (both written and spoken).

People put way too much stock in PewScience. And arbitrary suppressor ratings and metrics. And way too much focus on dB numbers.

There's so much more to a suppressor than a dB number. I personally think the information PewScience provides is of pretty limited utility.

This here gif sums up how I feel about the writing on © PEW Science® LLC‘s Pew SSS.6 - Sound Signature Reviews™ which are calculated using their SSS.2 - PEW-SOFT™ software methodology which informs their SSS.3 - Hearing Damage Level™ all of which are incorporated into their SSS.7 - Silencer Sound Standard™.


Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick how many days without autism?

 

[carbonbased]

Read more critiques on Pew Science here:

Suppressors - New silencer sound standard?

Saw this today. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/pew-science-announces-industry-leading-silencer-sound-standard/ My first impression is @TBACRAY any thoughts?

www.snipershide.com

 

[tlg308]

If you want data to make a decision I’d look at the TBAC silencer summit results. Complete transparency, 0 pride and just raw data.

 

[Buck Wilde]

The Banish 22 is on the way; Big Bro approved it. Silencer Shop is recommending the Banish 30 for my other guns. They say TBAC has a 6-month backlog.

 

[NiteQwill]

The Banish 22 is on the way; Big Bro approved it. Silencer Shop is recommending the Banish 30 for my other guns. They say TBAC has a 6-month backlog.

I would say 6 months is being nice. I just put another TBAC order last week and it says January 2025.

 

[FuhQ]

The Banish 22 is on the way; Big Bro approved it. Silencer Shop is recommending the Banish 30 for my other guns. They say TBAC has a 6-month backlog.

I think you mean Silencer Central... Silencer Shop doesn't sell Banish cans to my knowledge.

And also, why don't you contact @Zak Smith or @TBACRAY at TBAC yourself concerning backlog times... They can answer any of your questions, and have a very strong forum presence.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

Jay, is that you?

Below is what @kthomas and I think of Mr. Pew Pew. He’s focused on the numbers and I’m irked by the delivery (both written and spoken).

View attachment 8313351
This here gif sums up how I feel about the writing on © PEW Science® LLC‘s Pew SSS.6 - Sound Signature Reviews™ which are calculated using their SSS.2 - PEW-SOFT™ software methodology which informs their SSS.3 - Hearing Damage Level™ all of which are incorporated into their SSS.7 - Silencer Sound Standard™.


Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick how many days without autism?

This is an odd take.

Both of you repeatedly say it’s about more than just peak db, which is more or less the primary metric the silencer sound summit delivers in usefulness to most laymen can buyers.

Those same laymen mentioned here likely won’t be removing the reverb in the published data created by testing inside of a barn either, or analyze any of the raw data at all.

What pew tries to do is exactly what you say you’re interested in, go beyond peak db to measure other important metrics, like potential damage to the ear, which isn’t clear from the “Pepsi challenge”, or peak db.

Yet you don’t like that either, despite it being exactly what you say you’re after, because it’s cute to post memes and participate in the echo chamber that gets you brownie points in a select group.

There’s an obvious difference between actual analysis, and a circle jerk, and I’ll let you decide which one you’re closer to.

Your comments about “pewscience being less useful” as you buy more cans are funny too. Most guys starting out don’t have access to 3,5, or even 2 competing cans to try out side by side before buying, so short of also having the ability to time travel, that point is irrelevant to most.

Even after owning multiple cans, you still don’t have the exposure to the large variety Pew tested, and continues to test, nor the ability to estimate potential hearing loss, so your anecdotal experience is at best self-serving bias.

In just about every other industry, we’d be suspicious of the data presented to us by the people selling the product they’re presenting the data for. The guy who owns Griffin has even spoken out about the methodology used in the sound summit, for all its “radical transparency” to boot.

I bet OP learned so much from that advice.

 

[flogxal]

are we at high school, shitting on the smart kids again ?
I'm a layman, the website is clear,- go to the "lab staff opinion" at the end of any review for a quick summation or look at the comparative silencer v silencer ratings...If you're technically minded, all the detail stuff is there - if you can't be arsed to put minimal effort in, or Youtube is peak learning, then throw your money at whatever

If anyone right now can offer up better/ clearer/ more comprehensive reviews, then they should get on with it, I'll be a subscriber- sure many others will be grateful.

The "smart kids" would know it's about more than measured data. The "smart kids" ask, "well what is that data saying?" And then the smart kids would notice, the data is "saying" a bunch of opinions pretending to be supported by data.

Some of us old geezers remember the days before Instant Expertise on the Internet, where piles of data are substituted for actual useful analysis. The internet has caused people to be thirsty / hungry for data, charts, graphics.

Maybe the 70s and 80s were too long ago for you youngsters to treat seriously, but back in those days, in hard science major curricula, the data were not considered anything close to what you tykes think the data "says" these days. What was known to be important was the informed analysis. And it was known that people use data in selfish ways, even if their data can be assumed to be recorded without technical flaw, or technical bias.

I am sure the engineers, and wannabe engineers, all find the data piles "informative." They'd probably trust an actuary to tell them when they're gonna get terminally ill.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

The "smart kids" would know it's about more than measured data. The "smart kids" ask, "well what is that data saying?" And then the smart kids would notice, the data is "saying" a bunch of opinions pretending to be supported by data.

Some of us old geezers remember the days before Instant Expertise on the Internet, where piles of data are substituted for actual useful analysis. The internet has caused people to be thirsty / hungry for data, charts, graphics.

Maybe the 70s and 80s were too long ago for you youngsters to treat seriously, but back in those days, in hard science major curricula, the data were not considered anything close to what you tykes think the data "says" these days. What was known to be important was the informed analysis. And it was known that people use data in selfish ways, even if their data can be assumed to be recorded without technical flaw, or technical bias.

I am sure the engineers, and wannabe engineers, all find the data piles "informative." They'd probably trust an actuary to tell them when they're gonna get terminally ill.

Ah yes…the roaring 70’s and 80’s, when asbestos and lead surrounded you in your home, and big tobacco still had people fooled that smoking didn’t cause lung cancer.

What a time to be alive before free access to information ruined all the fun things.

Skin cancer alone has tripled since the 70s, sure has nothing to do with the data being absent on excessive tanning back then. Must be that damn global warming finally catching up to them before they knew what it was!

 

[NiteQwill]

This is an odd take.

Both of you repeatedly say it’s about more than just peak db, which is more or less the primary metric the silencer sound summit delivers in usefulness to most laymen can buyers.

Those same laymen mentioned here likely won’t be removing the reverb in the published data created by testing inside of a barn either, or analyze any of the raw data at all.

What pew tries to do is exactly what you say you’re interested in, go beyond peak db to measure other important metrics, like potential damage to the ear, which isn’t clear from the “Pepsi challenge”, or peak db.

Yet you don’t like that either, despite it being exactly what you say you’re after, because it’s cute to post memes and participate in the echo chamber that gets you brownie points in a select group.

There’s an obvious difference between actual analysis, and a circle jerk, and I’ll let you decide which one you’re closer to.

Your comments about “pewscience being less useful” as you buy more cans are funny too. Most guys starting out don’t have access to 3,5, or even 2 competing cans to try out side by side before buying, so short of also having the ability to time travel, that point is irrelevant to most.

Even after owning multiple cans, you still don’t have the exposure to the large variety Pew tested, and continues to test, nor the ability to estimate potential hearing loss, so your anecdotal experience is at best self-serving bias.

In just about every other industry, we’d be suspicious of the data presented to us by the people selling the product they’re presenting the data for. The guy who owns Griffin has even spoken out about the methodology used in the sound summit, for all its “radical transparency” to boot.

I bet OP learned so much from that advice.

Honestly, no one really cares.

 

[carbonbased]

Ok @AleksanderSuave, about my criticism of Jay/Pew, you’re missing the point. On a different thread, I wrote a summary of my top issue:

I’m with you 100%.

Sometimes a person has different communication styles when writing vs. speaking.

Not Jay. Oh no. Definitely not Jay.

See the data on Jay’s comm style in my 625.34 supplement!!! Never been done before! You’re seeing it here first!!! Become a member!!! I’m high on pre-workout wooooooh!!!

Here are the boring details…

1. Jay is part carnival barker, part science guy, and he cannot shut up or be concise
   
   
2. When he blathers on at warp speed, I can visualize globs of hot spittle forming in the corners of his mouth
   
   
3. He can communicate with autistics like himself or very persistent technical people (ex. of the latter: @E. Bryant)
   
   
4. He cannot communicate (written or orally) with anyone else in a short amount of time
   
   
5. Not saying Jay has never done anything good. This example given about Surefire’s Warcomp is apropos.
   
   
6. His biz model is a confusing mess of supporter-paid and industry-paid. It’s hard to tease out where his allegiances lie. If I had to guess, they lie with Jay’s ability to continue being paid (i.e. not purely with data). He also seems too fond of the adulation of his fans.
   
   
7. He wraps his data in the holy cloth of his Silencer Sound Standard™. But as noted by others in fields ruled by research, not making his experiments replicable casts a dim, huckster-ish light upon his entire endeavor, however bright his data points/insights may be. This doesn't mean he is a huckster, it just means it appears that way.
   
   
8. Finally, the fact that you are in thrall over the minutia suggests that you are more similar to Jay than not. Of course you like him…he is your people. And that’s ok.

Below, you were (mis)characterizing my interest in suppressors (my emphasis):

What pew tries to do is exactly what you say you’re interested in, go beyond peak db to measure other important metrics, like potential damage to the ear, which isn’t clear from the “Pepsi challenge”, or peak db.

So to correct the record, this is what I’m interested in with regard to suppressors:
Overall length, ease of cleaning (titanium!), runout, repeatable POI, and especially attachment options are key. Top brands are all quiet enough and provide enough blast protection for those who wear hearing protection.

I DO NOT need metrics on blast reduction unless it is proven that similar-sized cans provide vastly differing (and medically meaningful!) reductions.

If you don’t wear hearing protection with suppressor use, you risk your hearing in most cases. So caring too much over dB numbers is usually foolish. Thus it calls into question the utility of most of Jay's site to all but noobs (who don't know better) and obsessive enthusiasts.

 

[Buck Wilde]

I think you mean Silencer Central... Silencer Shop doesn't sell Banish cans to my knowledge.

And also, why don't you contact @Zak Smith or @TBACRAY at TBAC yourself concerning backlog times... They can answer any of your questions, and have a very strong forum presence.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

Ok @AleksanderSuave, about my criticism of Jay/Pew, you’re missing the point. On a different thread, I wrote a summary of my top issue:

Here are the boring details…

1. Jay is part carnival barker, part science guy, and he cannot shut up or be concise
   
   
2. When he blathers on at warp speed, I can visualize globs of hot spittle forming in the corners of his mouth
   
   
3. He can communicate with autistics like himself or very persistent technical people (ex. of the latter: @E. Bryant)
   
   
4. He cannot communicate (written or orally) with anyone else in a short amount of time
   
   
5. Not saying Jay has never done anything good. This example given about Surefire’s Warcomp is apropos.
   
   
6. His biz model is a confusing mess of supporter-paid and industry-paid. It’s hard to tease out where his allegiances lie. If I had to guess, they lie with Jay’s ability to continue being paid (i.e. not purely with data). He also seems too fond of the adulation of his fans.
   
   
7. He wraps his data in the holy cloth of his Silencer Sound Standard™. But as noted by others in fields ruled by research, not making his experiments replicable casts a dim, huckster-ish light upon his entire endeavor, however bright his data points/insights may be. This doesn't mean he is a huckster, it just means it appears that way.
   
   
8. Finally, the fact that you are in thrall over the minutia suggests that you are more similar to Jay than not. Of course you like him…he is your people. And that’s ok.

Below, you were (mis)characterizing my interest in suppressors (my emphasis):

So to correct the record, this is what I’m interested in with regard to suppressors:
Overall length, ease of cleaning (titanium!), runout, repeatable POI, and especially attachment options are key. Top brands are all quiet enough and provide enough blast protection for those who wear hearing protection.

I DO NOT need metrics on blast reduction unless it is proven that similar-sized cans provide vastly differing (and medically meaningful!) reductions.

If you don’t wear hearing protection with suppressor use, you risk your hearing in most cases. So caring too much over dB numbers is usually foolish. Thus it calls into question the utility of most of Jay's site to all but noobs (who don't know better) and obsessive enthusiasts.

You don’t like how he talks or his podcast.

I don’t like his podcasts either.

We can agree on something and get past that.

The obvious point is he provides data for consumers that is incredibly valuable, that no else offers.

No matter how many times you whine about not liking his style of writing, that fact doesn't change.

For all the talk about how he communicates to “autists”, have you considered that maybe your issue is your own? Seems like plenty of other people have no problem with it.

If I read something beyond my technical understanding of a subject, I don’t make a habit of blaming the author for my own shortcomings.

Also, you keep going on about peak db, yet missing the obvious point, his “standard” takes into effect potential damage to the ear that is an entirely separate factor to peak db.

Your circular argument keeps ignoring that because, as you’ve already admitted, you suck at reading and need it spoon fed to you. The point is, it’s been spoon fed to you multiple times, and now you’re just whining while you ignore it because you’ve admitted that you like being a contrarian.

So to correct the record, this is what I’m interested in with regard to suppressors:
ease of cleaning (titanium!)

Why? You've posted at least 3 separate times that TBAC cleans them once a year for you for free.

This is like debating the merits of the location of the oil filter on your vehicle, after establishing that you dont change your own oil in the first place.

 

[flatland1]

My 1st silencer purchase was based on a friend's preference & my ignorance, and it didn't turn out well at all. I was so disappointed with constantly changing POI of that can that I put it in the back of the safe and more-or-less forgot about it, then bought a TBAC 30BA for use on a DTA SRS - and hadn't had the stamp for that can for a week before TBAC released the 30CB9, which I bought. I hadn't even got the stamp for that can when TBAC announced their Ultra line, and it didn't take much research to convince me that I needed an Ultra 7. Meanwhile, in conversation with a friend who is a Class III/SOT, I mentioned that I had an AAC SCAR-h, and he asked if I'd be willing to trade it to him for a SF SOCOM762-RC, since he had a FN SCAR-H. I jumped at that offer, and am still ok with having done so, even though I very seldom use the SOCOM. In the past couple of years, I've purchased Gen 2 Ultra 7 & Ultra 5 cans, along with a OSS HX-QD 556k that I found on sale after HUX WRX brought out a newer version. And I've since returned both the 30BA & 30CB9 to TBAC to have them re-cored with Ultra 9 baffle stacks & the CB mount on the BA can. The re-cored 9" cans are by far the quietest ones I own, but on several of my precision bolt rifles, I get tighter groups with either of the Ultra 7s, which is probably due to bbl harmonics. The Ultra 5 is used most often on Howa Mini-based custom walking varmint rifles - I consider it more of a moderator than a suppressor, for hearing protection when only a round or two will be fired at a coyote without ear protection.

I haven't seriously looked into TBAC's Magnus or Dominus models because I'm satisfied with the two Ultra 7s, but I shoot very few PR matches anymore, and with nothing larger than a straight 284 Win, with far more shooting done with Dashers or 6XCs. That OSS QD-556k really opened my eyes when it comes to cans for gas guns, and I will likely be buying a 7.62 FLOW as my next suppressor purchase, for use on large frame ARs. If I were limited to two suppressors, highly likely I'd go with an Ultra 7 & 7.62 FLOW.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

Honestly, no one really cares.

You cared enough to waste your own time to post that you dont care.

Thats such an odd way of demonstrating how much you dont care. The rest of us just ignore stuff like that.