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Suppressors Help me decide next can
- Thread starter Jmccracken1214
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Have you tried closing your browser, clearing your cache or cookies, and then opening up the internet, and trying to login again?
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Yup. I made another account and can log in fine on that. I saw a reddit post where others have had this issue and they have to fix it.
I spent 2 hours on hold total today, they were of no help. Emailed them this morning but have yet to hear back.
Just checked... It's not working for me, either... The site works, until I try to edit my cart, or add something to my cart. If I do, it pops up a blank white page that says at the top left corner "Estimate Shipping and Tax" and nothing else. No buttons to click on, nothing.
It's getting annoying. Im on day 2 and cant get anyone at SS to help or do anything. I spent almost 3 hours total today waiting to talk to people that suggest either changing my password, emailing the issue to someone else, who never responded or "just be patient"
Trying to spend money with a place and cant even do it!
Jm - the good news is you really can't make a bad choice. I own a Sandman S and a Nomad TI, both fantastic cans, but with very different uses. I would say the Nomad Ti is slightly quieter ... and of course ridiculously light. But it goes on a couple of bolt guns, and one precision AR with a 18" barrel where I'll never do rapid fire. And the Nomad is attached using Xeno muzzle brake to keep things light.
The Sandman S is nice because I can put it on a 10.5" AR and just not worry that I'm ever going to damage it. And Keymo attachment system is great. I put an E-brake on mine, which adds a little more weight and length, but makes the gun ridiculously easy to keep on target, and reduces the back pressure even more, which is an issue for me since I shoot lefty. Also, was able to pick up the Sandman in FDE as a contract overrun and think I paid $720 for it so the price was tough to beat. (But I didn't buy through SS and doing all the paperwork myself was a real PITA).
So if you can tolerate a little extra weight at the end of your barrel, which I personally adjusted to pretty quickly, getting the extra durability and the Key attachment of the Sandman is nice, even if you probably won't ever need it. However, if you want to keep the front end as light as possible, don't really care about Keymo, and know that the likelihood of you ever doing consecutive 30 round mag dumps is basically zero, the Nomad would probably be a better choice.
The Sandman S is nice because I can put it on a 10.5" AR and just not worry that I'm ever going to damage it. And Keymo attachment system is great. I put an E-brake on mine, which adds a little more weight and length, but makes the gun ridiculously easy to keep on target, and reduces the back pressure even more, which is an issue for me since I shoot lefty. Also, was able to pick up the Sandman in FDE as a contract overrun and think I paid $720 for it so the price was tough to beat. (But I didn't buy through SS and doing all the paperwork myself was a real PITA).
So if you can tolerate a little extra weight at the end of your barrel, which I personally adjusted to pretty quickly, getting the extra durability and the Key attachment of the Sandman is nice, even if you probably won't ever need it. However, if you want to keep the front end as light as possible, don't really care about Keymo, and know that the likelihood of you ever doing consecutive 30 round mag dumps is basically zero, the Nomad would probably be a better choice.
I agree with you.
I just went to my local shop and handled a turbo, turbo k and resonator & k...
They have me rethinking this whole thing, AGAIN... I could get 2 YHM cans for a tad more than 1 DA can....
Let me give you one piece of advice about K cans... They are NOT quiet AT ALL. I don't own one, but have shot and been around plenty of folks shooting with them to know. Most recently, several months ago, there was a couple of guys at the range one day with a Resonator K on a .30-06, and it was almost as loud (beside the gun) as if they weren't suppressed at all. They probably shot 20 rounds while I was there, before they finally left. It was VERY loud. Like, it may have dropped it 10-15 DB tops, but it was still loud as fuck...Complete waste of a tax stamp.
They tried shooting it once without ear pro, and then immediately regretted that, and went back to muffs. Sitting there 20' away I was having to wear muffs, and I don't even wear muffs shooting my own guns suppressed...Even magnums. But that's what the difference of where large-enough volume suppressors to match your cartridge needs comes in.
Not trying to sway you from one brand or the other, just saying, that IN MY OPINION (especially on hunting and range rifles), K-cans (of any brands) are a waste of money and a tax stamp, because they are not quiet at all. I would definitely not opt for a K-can of ANY brand...Especially when you can get super lightweight and strong titanium S & L length cans these days that are tough enough to handle SURGE cycles and up to .300 RUM/Norma Mag. Just my thoughts.
Don't have any experience with the YHM cans, although based on what I've read they seem to be a solid budget alternative. However, with two cans come two tax stamps, so that's an extra $200. And if you add a Keymo FH or muzzle brake to your existing rifles, switching between rifles is a snap, so you really won't need a second can.
On the other hand, I think Keymo FH's and muzzle brakes run about $100 each.
And FuhQ makes a good point. I've seen several threads where people talk about the short K cans (regardless of who makes them) not really being long enough to offer decent suppression. Whereas my Nomad TI and Sandman S are a pleasure to shoot.
My gun club has a firing line that's basically enclosed on three sides with hinged doors you can open towards the targets. That's great in the winter when it's 5 degrees outside (we also have a wood burning stove) but makes it really loud if you have a couple of guys in there at the same time. Before I got my suppressors I would shoot my SBR/pistol AR's in there and was not exactly making friends on the firing line. I used to wear foam plugs and muffs to keep the noise down. However, with the Sandman and Nomad I just wear foam plugs and the noise is more than tolerable. And I no longer get the stink eye from the guy next to me shooting his .22.
After staring at the total of the cart with the 2 cans, I think I’ll just get a nomad for now lol!
Still trying to decide if I want to go xeno or plan b/rearden
Still trying to decide if I want to go xeno or plan b/rearden
Not all "K" cans are created equal, not all weapon systems respond in the same way, not all users have the same goals, and anecdotal observations are terrible at evaluating suppressor performance.
For example, the Dominus-K is, to no one's surprise, somewhat louder on a 300 Win Mag bolt gun than the larger Dominus and much larger Ultra 338:
www.snipershide.com
The same is true on a .308 bolt gun:
www.snipershide.com
But on an untuned .308 semi-auto:
www.snipershide.com
... and a shorty 5.56:
www.snipershide.com
... the shorty can is quieter than its bigger brothers at the shooter's ear due to the dynamics of a semi-auto weapons system. The small can is also 25db quieter at the shooter's ear on the short 5.56 than with a bare brake; that's represents roughly a 300x reduction in hearing damage potential. To me, that's not a "waste of a tax stamp", but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
For example, the Dominus-K is, to no one's surprise, somewhat louder on a 300 Win Mag bolt gun than the larger Dominus and much larger Ultra 338:
Suppressors - Thunder Beast Dominus, Dominus K and 338SR on 300WM
Dominus K MR- 153.4, 150.2, 149.7,148.9, 150.3 Avg- 150.5 ML- 151.6, 148.8, 148.9,148.6, 146.8 Avg- 148.9 MR/ML Avg- 149.7 SE- 133.3, 132.2, 133.3, 135.1, 136.2 Avg- 134 Dominus MR-145.9, 145.9, 144.4, 146.3, 145.0 Avg- 145.5 ML- 144.5, 145.1, 145.5, 146.1, 144.1 Avg- 145.1 MR/ML Avg-...
www.snipershide.com
The same is true on a .308 bolt gun:
Suppressors - Thunder Beast Dominus, Dominus-K and 338-SR on 20" 308
Here we have the New Dominus-K, Dominus and 338SR on a 20" 308 shooting LR118. data captured via B&K PULSE. Shots go Dom K SR MR-145.9, 144.8, 146.9,145.3, 144.3 Avg-145.5 ML-142.9, 144.3, 141.9, 144.4, 141.0 Avg-142.9 ML/MR Avg-144.2 SE- 135.6, 135.8,136.0, 131.9,133.5 Avg-134.5 Dominus SR...
www.snipershide.com
But on an untuned .308 semi-auto:
Suppressors - Thunder Beast Dominus, Dominus-K and 338 SR on 18" 308 SP10
Dominus K MR- 146.1, 145.2, 143.7, 144.6, 143.3 Avg- 144.6 ML- 144.5, 144.2, 141.3, 143.9, 141.3 Avg- 143.0 MR/ML Avg- 143.8 SE- 139.3, 139.9, 138.9, 138.3, 138.0 Avg- 138.9 Dominus MR- 141.2, 140.7, 140.2, 142.4, 140.3 Avg- 141.0 ML- 141.6, 139.0, 141.5, 140.6, 140.4 Avg- 140.6 MR/ML Avg-...
www.snipershide.com
... and a shorty 5.56:
Suppressors - Thunder Beast Dominus / k on 10.3" AR
Here we have our Dominus and Dominus K on a 10.3" Seekins shooting M193, mk318 and 75GRN SBR ammo. We even did a shot with just the SR brake. It went like this Dominus-SR on 10.3” PDW M193 MR-140.9, 139.1,137.9,140.1,139.8 Avg-139.6 ML-139.7, 138.6,138.4,138.6,138.6 Avg-138.8 ML/MR Avg-139.2...
www.snipershide.com
... the shorty can is quieter than its bigger brothers at the shooter's ear due to the dynamics of a semi-auto weapons system. The small can is also 25db quieter at the shooter's ear on the short 5.56 than with a bare brake; that's represents roughly a 300x reduction in hearing damage potential. To me, that's not a "waste of a tax stamp", but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I noticed in a test video that the turbo k, on a semi auto was within .5 db at the shooters ear as a nomad.Not all "K" cans are created equal, not all weapon systems respond in the same way, not all users have the same goals, and anecdotal observations are terrible at evaluating suppressor performance.
For example, the Dominus-K is, to no one's surprise, somewhat louder on a 300 Win Mag bolt gun than the larger Dominus and much larger Ultra 338:
Suppressors - Thunder Beast Dominus, Dominus K and 338SR on 300WM
Dominus K MR- 153.4, 150.2, 149.7,148.9, 150.3 Avg- 150.5 ML- 151.6, 148.8, 148.9,148.6, 146.8 Avg- 148.9 MR/ML Avg- 149.7 SE- 133.3, 132.2, 133.3, 135.1, 136.2 Avg- 134 Dominus MR-145.9, 145.9, 144.4, 146.3, 145.0 Avg- 145.5 ML- 144.5, 145.1, 145.5, 146.1, 144.1 Avg- 145.1 MR/ML Avg-...
The same is true on a .308 bolt gun:
Suppressors - Thunder Beast Dominus, Dominus-K and 338-SR on 20" 308
Here we have the New Dominus-K, Dominus and 338SR on a 20" 308 shooting LR118. data captured via B&K PULSE. Shots go Dom K SR MR-145.9, 144.8, 146.9,145.3, 144.3 Avg-145.5 ML-142.9, 144.3, 141.9, 144.4, 141.0 Avg-142.9 ML/MR Avg-144.2 SE- 135.6, 135.8,136.0, 131.9,133.5 Avg-134.5 Dominus SR...
But on an untuned .308 semi-auto:
Suppressors - Thunder Beast Dominus, Dominus-K and 338 SR on 18" 308 SP10
Dominus K MR- 146.1, 145.2, 143.7, 144.6, 143.3 Avg- 144.6 ML- 144.5, 144.2, 141.3, 143.9, 141.3 Avg- 143.0 MR/ML Avg- 143.8 SE- 139.3, 139.9, 138.9, 138.3, 138.0 Avg- 138.9 Dominus MR- 141.2, 140.7, 140.2, 142.4, 140.3 Avg- 141.0 ML- 141.6, 139.0, 141.5, 140.6, 140.4 Avg- 140.6 MR/ML Avg-...
... and a shorty 5.56:
Suppressors - Thunder Beast Dominus / k on 10.3" AR
Here we have our Dominus and Dominus K on a 10.3" Seekins shooting M193, mk318 and 75GRN SBR ammo. We even did a shot with just the SR brake. It went like this Dominus-SR on 10.3” PDW M193 MR-140.9, 139.1,137.9,140.1,139.8 Avg-139.6 ML-139.7, 138.6,138.4,138.6,138.6 Avg-138.8 ML/MR Avg-139.2...
... the shorty can is quieter than its bigger brothers at the shooter's ear due to the dynamics of a semi-auto weapons system. The small can is also 25db quieter at the shooter's ear on the short 5.56 than with a bare brake; that's represents roughly a 300x reduction in hearing damage potential. To me, that's not a "waste of a tax stamp", but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I think the nomad, being longer, paired with the flash hider end cap will 100% hide flashing better than a k can ever will. I’ll get a k can next, maybe. I know the t2 turbo I sat beside the k today, would be the same length has the k with the yhm mount if you put the t2 with a plan b. And only 2oz heavier stock for stock.
So a plan b mount on a T2 gives you the same length has a favtory turbo k, probably same weight and 1-2 extra baffles?
To the extent that "K" cans have a higher flow rate than a Nomad or other "standard" can, yes, you can generally expect that there will be a difference in flash suppression between the two. I would expect this to be particularly true for shooting 5.56 from a short barrel through an overbored (30 cal or larger) "K" can. I'm sure there are exceptions to this generalization.
I have both a Resonator R2 and Turbo K. On an AR I see zero reason to use the R2. The Turbo K sounds the same from behind the rifle and is significantly handier.
On a bolt or lever gun the larger can is an advantage. On a semi auto I see zero reason to use anything other than a K can.
On a bolt or lever gun the larger can is an advantage. On a semi auto I see zero reason to use anything other than a K can.
So, I'm curious, E. Bryant, do those results hold up when sound is not measured from the shooter's perspective, but the perspective of someone who is sitting three feet to the left or right of the shooter? For some that may not be a consideration, if you're generally shooting alone, but could be a factor for others.
Also, the 25b reduction at shooters ear, is that really all that impressive? I've always been under the impression that something like the Sandman S is reducing the db level by over 30db, but honestly, after a quick Google search I couldn't find any data that either supported or contradicted this belief.
Also, the 25b reduction at shooters ear, is that really all that impressive? I've always been under the impression that something like the Sandman S is reducing the db level by over 30db, but honestly, after a quick Google search I couldn't find any data that either supported or contradicted this belief.
With regards to the shooter's ear vs. the muzzle, the data you seek is included in the results above, and it indicates that a increase in flow rate (the same as a decrease in backpressure) generally causes an increase in SPL measured at the muzzle. This is backed up by other sources of data as well.
Note that most bystanders don't put their ears 1 meter immediately right or left of the muzzle (the standard measurement point) under normal shooting conditions. If they do, they probably deserve what they get and hopefully that encourages them to take a safer position. Extrapolating peak SPL and impulse at any other position is extremely difficult, but moving even a few inches rearward of the muzzle can cause a substantial reduction, so I would be very careful about trying to extrapolate muzzle numbers to real-world performance at the range or hunting blind.
it's also possible to be a dick and say that I'll care about muzzle numbers when bystanders start paying for my tax stamps, but let's be honest - many (most?) members here appreciate that moment when another shooter walks over and compliments our rig. If that's what you live for, by all means, look at the muzzle numbers and proceed accordingly.
Whether or not a 25db reduction is "impressive" is a subjective evaluation and in the eyes (or rather, ear) of the beholder. What is objective is that it represents a 300x reduction in peak SPL, and is roughly equivalent to using typical earplugs or muffs. Personally, it doesn't transform a Mk18 or similar SBR into a "shoot it all day without earpro" proposition, but it does take most hunting rigs down to the point where I'm OK with 1-2 shots unprotected. That's valuable to me, but maybe not to others.
The Sandman-S on a 20" .308 bolt gun is worth about 18dB at the muzzle according to one public source of data (which is different that the data published by TBAC that I provided advice, so it must not be directly compared). That same source rates the Sandman-K about 5dB worse and the Sandman-L about 5dB better. I won't pass along the at-ear numbers from this source because they are not public domain, but I will generalize and say that bolt guns don't benefit from backpressure reduction in the same way that semi-autos do (this is obviously confirmed by the TBAC data set).
An 18dB reduction may or may not be subjectively "impressive" to a particular person, but it does represent a 63x reduction in hearing damage potential. That seems pretty good to me.
Breaking up the big wall of text into two slightly smaller walls...
One more thing that needs to be discussed - at least within the context of subjective impressions - is the spectral (frequency) content of the sound signature... AKA "tone". Silencers take a low-pitched BOOOMMM of about 1 millisecond duration and turn it into a higher-pitched WHOOSSHH that is about 5ms long. The exact characteristics of this shift in the time and frequency domains depend upon a number of factors, but the overall flow rate/backpressure characteristic is one of the bigger influences - more backpressure generally creating a shift to higher frequencies over a longer period of time and at lower peak level.
If one has hearing loss in a particular frequency band, exposure to loud noises in the band is often uncomfortable. The frequency bands in which one has experienced damage can line up with the most energetic portions of a given silencer signature, and if that happens, the observer will subjectively find that silencer to be "louder" even if it's overall quieter than a comparative silencer with a different spectral content. This is why someone might subjectively assess a particular silencer to sound good using a description like "deep and chunky tone" and someone else might say that the same silencer is "boomy" - they're both correct according to their individual ear response.
Some guys with subpar objective numbers love to talk about "tone". I can mentally replay one infamous company owner stretching it out in his Southern drawl because he frequently talks about how well his products do in this regard.
One more thing that needs to be discussed - at least within the context of subjective impressions - is the spectral (frequency) content of the sound signature... AKA "tone". Silencers take a low-pitched BOOOMMM of about 1 millisecond duration and turn it into a higher-pitched WHOOSSHH that is about 5ms long. The exact characteristics of this shift in the time and frequency domains depend upon a number of factors, but the overall flow rate/backpressure characteristic is one of the bigger influences - more backpressure generally creating a shift to higher frequencies over a longer period of time and at lower peak level.
If one has hearing loss in a particular frequency band, exposure to loud noises in the band is often uncomfortable. The frequency bands in which one has experienced damage can line up with the most energetic portions of a given silencer signature, and if that happens, the observer will subjectively find that silencer to be "louder" even if it's overall quieter than a comparative silencer with a different spectral content. This is why someone might subjectively assess a particular silencer to sound good using a description like "deep and chunky tone" and someone else might say that the same silencer is "boomy" - they're both correct according to their individual ear response.
Some guys with subpar objective numbers love to talk about "tone". I can mentally replay one infamous company owner stretching it out in his Southern drawl because he frequently talks about how well his products do in this regard.
Thank you for your comprehensive explanation. It's not unusual for discussions in these forums to end up in a p*ss*ng contest where each person defends their advice/choice and that end up generating more heat than light. I feel like I genuinely learned something today.
And it does make sense that your individual uses/preferences will play a large role in what suppressor works for you. As I said in my earlier post, most of my shooting is done at my local gun club in what is essentially an enclosed space. And while I'm not going to have another shooter one foot from the muzzle of my gun, they might be 3-4 feet to my left or right at the next bench. So to me "not being a dick" to my fellow shooters is a factor. If I had a private range or was on an outside firing line where the next shooter was 15' away, db at muzzle wouldn't really be a factor.
Also my primary can (a Dead Air Sandman S) spends most of its time on a couple of 10.5" to 12.5" uppers, and I shoot lefty, so I probably care more than a right handed person about back pressure. And interestingly, I kind of like a can with a lower "tone" which maybe says something about my hearing.
And it does make sense that your individual uses/preferences will play a large role in what suppressor works for you. As I said in my earlier post, most of my shooting is done at my local gun club in what is essentially an enclosed space. And while I'm not going to have another shooter one foot from the muzzle of my gun, they might be 3-4 feet to my left or right at the next bench. So to me "not being a dick" to my fellow shooters is a factor. If I had a private range or was on an outside firing line where the next shooter was 15' away, db at muzzle wouldn't really be a factor.
Also my primary can (a Dead Air Sandman S) spends most of its time on a couple of 10.5" to 12.5" uppers, and I shoot lefty, so I probably care more than a right handed person about back pressure. And interestingly, I kind of like a can with a lower "tone" which maybe says something about my hearing.
I went ahead and went with another nomad. Did the nomad 30, to go with my L.
Hopefully Ill have it sooner than the 12 months it took to get the L
Hopefully Ill have it sooner than the 12 months it took to get the L
You’ll enjoy it. I hope to add a Nomad-30 to my collection soon. I’m already at 4 Dead Air cans, a Rugged, and 2 (fixing to be 3) Otter Creek Labs cans. It gets addicting.
Hey J! Sorry you are having issues logging in. Sending you a DM now!
No idea what this even means. We should not publicly state that you can shoot 6.5 through a .30 cal can because that makes it a "multi cal can" and too loud?
There is a category of large bore can, usually .46 cal, that is advertised as "do everything", ie, multi-cal, and yeah, those are loud because the hole is gigantic and typically they are not large enough to make up for it, if that were even possible.
K cans are for situations where you want the edge taken off but don't need what we would consider a normal/great level of suppression, because either size and weight are an issue, or simply the minimum added OAL is the issue. The former is typically hunters and the latter is typically military.
Ill probably add a K can next, since Ill have a nomad L, nomad 30... the k would fit in nice to live on an AR
Might even form1 1-2 of them for the same price as a sandman and just let them live on a dedicated rifle.
Are they finally accepting Form 1's again, or are they still fucking with people and wanting them to self-incriminate before an approval?
I didnt know they werent? When I did mine, I submitted form 1, then sent a screen shot of it to quiet bore and had my stuff in 5 days.
I did a form 1 22 can last year but havent looked at them since. I did just check quietbores site and they have everything marked out of stock.
Late last year, they were screwing with Form 1 cans, and they rejected almost 1000 Form 1 apps over some butthurt stupidity. Not sure if they ever got that squared away. I haven't heard anything else about it. A bunch of people, including the GOA and FPC filed suit against the ATF for that fiasco...But I never heard any verdict, or if they had since redacted their idiocy, and started allowing them again, like they always have since 1934. Count on the ATF to be like, "Yeah, that's been legal for 90 years, but now that we have Democrat lapdogs running our agency we don't like it, so...No, you can't do that previously perfectly legal thing anymore..."
There was a mass disapproval and request for more information from those who submitted form1s early this year/late last year. The question was around solvent kits and whether they constituted silencer parts (which would need a form4) or not. I think those who essentially said "I have no silencer parts and am manufacturing it myself" were given approval.
22 days now since I first reported the issue of not being able to log in... multiple calls, emails and BS run around answers have been given, but I still cant log into my SS account.
I can log in, but still can’t buy anything, as the cart page won’t load. Doesn’t really bother me, as I can’t afford another can right now anyway…And am fixing to have to buy stamps for 2 more when they arrive at the dealer. 
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