Im somewhere right around that number. I have been steadily adding, although between magazines and ammo I'm almost out of room in the safe!
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Help me hoard high end rifles before elections
- Thread starter 1911addict42
- Start date
Bulk American gunner 6.5 was 0.78$ a couple days ago. Good stuff
Great stuff.
I'm sad I missed it. I believe it was sold out in less than an hour.
There is a Noveske Recon Gen3 and LWRC IC A5 both available... opinions? Advice?
LWRC in general seems to have mixed reviews. Am I going to get what I'm paying for with that? It's the same same price as a KAC SR-15...
The Noveske gets a lot of love, but this is DI not Piston. Any reason to choose one over the other considering price is the same?
Do both of these act as a good all around gun, i.e. reliability, accuracy, etc.?
www.cheaperthandirt.com
www.guns.com
LWRC in general seems to have mixed reviews. Am I going to get what I'm paying for with that? It's the same same price as a KAC SR-15...
The Noveske gets a lot of love, but this is DI not Piston. Any reason to choose one over the other considering price is the same?
Do both of these act as a good all around gun, i.e. reliability, accuracy, etc.?
LWRC IC-A5 5.56 NATO AR-15 Semi Auto Rifle | Cheaper Than Dirt
Shop LWRC IC-A5 5.56 NATO AR-15 Semi Auto Rifle and more from Cheaper Than Dirt!
www.cheaperthandirt.com
Noveske Recon Gen Iii Black Cerakote Stainless Steel Adjustable Magpul Str Stock Black Polymer Grip - For Sale :: Guns.com
This Recon M-Lok Gen3 rifle features a 16" stainless steel barrel with a cherry bomb muzzle break, a Gen3 7075 T-6 aluminum receiver with a black armor cerakote finish, black Magpul Miad pistol grip, a black Magpul STR stock, and Magpul MBUS Pro folding sights. Brand Noveske Category Tactical...
www.guns.com
Last edited:
There is a Noveske Recon Gen3 and LWRC IC A5 both available... opinions? Advice?
LWRC in general seems to have mixed reviews. Am I going to get what I'm paying for with that? It's the same same price as a KAC SR-15...
The Noveske gets a lot of love, but this is DI not Piston. Any reason to choose one over the other considering price is the same?
Do both of these act as a good all around gun, i.e. reliability, accuracy, etc.?
LWRC IC-A5 5.56 NATO AR-15 Semi Auto Rifle | Cheaper Than Dirt
Shop LWRC IC-A5 5.56 NATO AR-15 Semi Auto Rifle and more from Cheaper Than Dirt!
Noveske Recon Gen Iii Black Cerakote Stainless Steel Adjustable Magpul Str Stock Black Polymer Grip - For Sale :: Guns.com
This Recon M-Lok Gen3 rifle features a 16" stainless steel barrel with a cherry bomb muzzle break, a Gen3 7075 T-6 aluminum receiver with a black armor cerakote finish, black Magpul Miad pistol grip, a black Magpul STR stock, and Magpul MBUS Pro folding sights. Brand Noveske Category Tactical...
Cheaper than dirt wont be getting a penny from me, ever! They are notorious for price gouging during ammo shortages. I'd look elsewhere.
You have a beautiful family and I understand your mission.
Without giving any details openly... I have a question for thought. Do you have a plan to leave the mega city and retreat if things go bad ?... A yes or no will suffice.
Thanks,
Hobo
I’d buy:
2 16” AR’s from a reputable mfg. Colt, KAC, LMT, etc...
2 Glock 9mm hand guns. 19, 17, 19x, 45
2 quality 22lr bolt guns
2 LMT MWS’
Spend the rest on ammo, mags, spare parts.
You can chase “High End”, and waste a ton of money on shit. Buy calibers in common use, 5.56, 308, 6.5 Creedmoor.... Focus on guns with a documented track record of holding up to hard use in harsh environments.
Hint..... Colt/Dimeaco, FN, HK, KAC, and LMT
2 16” AR’s from a reputable mfg. Colt, KAC, LMT, etc...
2 Glock 9mm hand guns. 19, 17, 19x, 45
2 quality 22lr bolt guns
2 LMT MWS’
Spend the rest on ammo, mags, spare parts.
You can chase “High End”, and waste a ton of money on shit. Buy calibers in common use, 5.56, 308, 6.5 Creedmoor.... Focus on guns with a documented track record of holding up to hard use in harsh environments.
Hint..... Colt/Dimeaco, FN, HK, KAC, and LMT
Last edited:
I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth, but based on most of the commentary I see around here, I think it's safe to assume collapse of society and looting/pillaging. TEOTWAWKI or some variant of it and all that goes along with it, which seems to be what everyone is salivating over. You'd not want to be in a densely populated area in any of those scenarios, or so it's told.
The reality is, most people couldn't survive a week on their own in the wilderness with the 100k rounds of ammo they have, so it's all an academic exercise in tactical cosplay warrior business for most. Just go read some threads from around 2008 when the world was ending the last time, it's the same stuff.
I think what you're doing is pragmatic, as there is an elevated chance of new 2A regulation, to include potential AWBs and so forth. Preserving something for the future that may not be attainable again is prudent and economically sound, assuming grandfathering occurs, which isn't assured. That said, I think the odds are in favor, because people might actually put their money where their mouths (or fingers in this case) are if confiscation becomes the game.
Buy enough you don't have to worry about it in the future for the most likely scenarios, and just accept that if you don't have a ranch out in the middle of nowhere, tons of training/experience/practice living off the land, and a lot of luck, the collapse of society means this would all be moot and you won't care.
Even if you have all of that, there's plenty of reasons it probably won't be yours forever. Don't get too caught up in it, it'd be too late to figure all that out now anyways if the end is nigh.
I picked up some of the bulk S&B last month for closer to around $0.65, fortunately.
It depends on the caliber though. I have over 10K 22LR for instance because it’s easy to blow through a 300-500rd box in one range session.
The AG is more better. Some people have good luck with the SB. Some people don’t.
Well, if that is the scenario we're talking about, that's not what I'm preparing for. It's extremely unlikely, and if that did happen, I'm not expecting to survive it. I'm a simple man, preparing for what has been a long time coming; regulation of high capacity firearms. Times are changing, and this is in the cross-hairs of not only the crazy leftists, but many middle line folks as well... Sandy Hook was the tipping point in my opinion.I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth, but based on most of the commentary I see around here, I think it's safe to assume collapse of society and looting/pillaging. TEOTWAWKI or some variant of it and all that goes along with it, which seems to be what everyone is salivating over. You'd not want to be in a densely populated area in any of those scenarios, or so it's told.
The reality is, most people couldn't survive a week on their own in the wilderness with the 100k rounds of ammo they have, so it's all an academic exercise in tactical cosplay warrior business for most. Just go read some threads from around 2008 when the world was ending the last time, it's the same stuff.
I think what you're doing is pragmatic, as there is an elevated chance of new 2A regulation, to include potential AWBs and so forth. Preserving something for the future that may not be attainable again is prudent and economically sound, assuming grandfathering occurs, which isn't assured. That said, I think the odds are in favor, because people might actually put their money where their mouths (or fingers in this case) are if confiscation becomes the game.
Buy enough you don't have to worry about it in the future for the most likely scenarios, and just accept that if you don't have a ranch out in the middle of nowhere, tons of training/experience/practice living off the land, and a lot of luck, the collapse of society means this would all be moot and you won't care.
and don't even get started on the possible zombie issue.I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth, but based on most of the commentary I see around here, I think it's safe to assume collapse of society and looting/pillaging. TEOTWAWKI or some variant of it and all that goes along with it, which seems to be what everyone is salivating over. You'd not want to be in a densely populated area in any of those scenarios, or so it's told.
The reality is, most people couldn't survive a week on their own in the wilderness with the 100k rounds of ammo they have, so it's all an academic exercise in tactical cosplay warrior business for most. Just go read some threads from around 2008 when the world was ending the last time, it's the same stuff.
I think what you're doing is pragmatic, as there is an elevated chance of new 2A regulation, to include potential AWBs and so forth. Preserving something for the future that may not be attainable again is prudent and economically sound, assuming grandfathering occurs, which isn't assured. That said, I think the odds are in favor, because people might actually put their money where their mouths (or fingers in this case) are if confiscation becomes the game.
Buy enough you don't have to worry about it in the future for the most likely scenarios, and just accept that if you don't have a ranch out in the middle of nowhere, tons of training/experience/practice living off the land, and a lot of luck, the collapse of society means this would all be moot and you won't care.
i don't know if anything will happen, but i basically bought all i could use in the time i have remaining, and i shoot what i can get after that.
that is why i have stuck with the basic calibers (.22, 9mm, 12ga, .308). i don't have room to hoard more.
Agreed- I’ve limited myself to 9mm, 308, 5.56 and 300.i don't know if anything will happen, but i basically bought all i could use in the time i have remaining, and i shoot what i can get after that.
that is why i have stuck with the basic calibers (.22, 9mm, 12ga, .308). i don't have room to hoard more.
I am debating adding .45 to that mix but I think I’ve got everything covered
I’m from St. Louis. Our Jews are wealthy and heavily armed. Also served in Israel twice with heavily armed Jews. Mazel tov!
its not something you’re going to lose money on if you don’t buy ar the peak. I’ve seen research showing ammo tracks better than the S&P.
Well I got 500rds to figure it out I guess.
I see a lot of recommendations for SCARs. Honestly, I would do your research on that. Reliability isn't thre for the cost on the SCAR.
Money would be more effectively spent on Noveske, KAC, LMT, JP. HK and LWRC is nice, but again, why buy those over KAC, Noveske, LMT, JP?
I like PWS (which I recommended earlier) because the function is different (i.e. only true long stroke piston) than DI and other piston ARs - when suppressed PWS really comes into its own I feel.
in regard to ammo,
i've been having more luck locally lately. but, keep checking SGAMMO, midway, etc.
Money would be more effectively spent on Noveske, KAC, LMT, JP. HK and LWRC is nice, but again, why buy those over KAC, Noveske, LMT, JP?
I like PWS (which I recommended earlier) because the function is different (i.e. only true long stroke piston) than DI and other piston ARs - when suppressed PWS really comes into its own I feel.
in regard to ammo,
i've been having more luck locally lately. but, keep checking SGAMMO, midway, etc.
I agree with you on the SCAR, based on the my limited time with it at a range, I just wasn’t impressed.
It sounds like it may be worth getting a second KAC... LMT and Noveske aren’t available anywhere. Maybe another JP? Guys have been knocking their “ruggedness” but I can’t imagine it’s not reliable based on what I’ve read.
The Radian Model 1 looks beautiful and great performance but nobody seems to talk about it, I don’t understand why?
For PWS, it looks good, I’m just not sold that it’s “special”. I’d be more inclined towards POF.
I check ammoseek frequently, there’s ammo out there, but price gouging abounds.
are you referring to the youtube video made by somebody that ran his scar-h suppressed on full auto with the gas setting wrong?
in any case, the Scar 20S is a different animal and even scar-h haters tend to like them.
the guys at Battlefield Vegas say the scar 16 are one of the most reliable rifles they have. "nothing breaks".
@ 8:10
don't even know why i care enough to defend them, lol. this guy hated the 17S.
Gun Review: FN SCAR 20S Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor - The Truth About Guns
FN-USA has re-released last year’s SCAR 20S in 6.5 Creedmoor, and it’s perfect. The new SCAR 20S is the same gun, with the same trigger, stock, upper, lower, rails, finish, everything as the gun they released last year, just in a different chambering with a different barrel assembly. It’s the...
www.thetruthaboutguns.com
Last edited:
Radian isn't common, at least the full rifles, so less people will have feedback. They are mostly known for parts. There's some not-great things said over on the 'other' forum about the company's internal operations (go search - I have no firsthand knowledge), but they definitely have some nice products (I use their safety selectors and love them). I've used a Radian lower before, it seemed like a nice ambidextrous option, but I vastly prefer the ADM ambi lower, which is what I build all my rifles on nowadays. Sorry I don't have more feedback for you, I've just handled Radian lowers a few times. They were nicely machined, I just prefer a different option.
I love ADM lowers, but even still - I don't own any ADM rifles. I just buy the lowers (and often uppers and rails, I think they go nicely together and are all well machined) and build my own rifle the way _I_ want it. I like G charging handles for suppressed firing, they do the best at blocking gas to the face. I like TriggerTech Diamond triggers with straight trigger shoes, I like Toolcraft BCGs and bolts in DLC, I like Superlative Arms adjustable gas blocks, so on and so forth. I can't just go buy an off-the-shelf rifle and get all that - that's why it's neat that AR15s are like little lego kits, you can piece them together how you want as long as you are reasonably handy and have basic tooling.
I've got CNC mills, lathes, and various other requipment in my workshop and could make an AR15 from raw material if I wanted, but I still pick up lowers/uppers and put them together. There's really no reason not to, there are amazing quality parts already engineered to work well that you can fit together intelligently and end up with a very nice rifle. It's something you should consider doing, too - if nothing else - you'll learn a heck of a lot about how it all goes together and be ready if you have an issue you need to address.
Your problem is timing - it's impossible to find all the parts nowadays. Grab a few lowers, and ideally uppers/handguards now while you can, and then shop around for all the other bits when they pop up for sale. The lowers are the serialized parts, so if there is grandfathering going on, you'll be covered. If you want ambidextrous lowers, LMT, Radian, and ADM are the options out there. You can't go wrong with any of them, just focus on the ambidextrous controls and what suits you best. There's tons of mil-spec lowers too, if you prefer to avoid proprietary parts. I just bought a few spares of all the proprietary parts for my ADMs, and have the means to machine more if I exhaust those 50 years from now.
Oh, and Form 1 a few lowers for SBR and make sure you have a durable suppressor or two. Form 1 is a month turnaround right now, Form 4 seems like they've been coming in within 3-6 months for new submissions, which is unheard of since SS made it 'easy' and everyone jumped on the bandwagon, hah.
Lmt, Lmt, Lmt
Mrp, mws
308 barrels various sizes, 223 various sizes, 6.8, 300 blackout, 6.5 creed
Interchangeable barrels that can be swapped in different calibers in minutes. Bit overpassed but Accurate, reliable and durable
I’ve owned all the nicest ars and my Lmt are my workhorse, and seem to stay in my safe.
Sure my scar and apc is cool but parts are hard to find and expensive.
Mrp, mws
308 barrels various sizes, 223 various sizes, 6.8, 300 blackout, 6.5 creed
Interchangeable barrels that can be swapped in different calibers in minutes. Bit overpassed but Accurate, reliable and durable
I’ve owned all the nicest ars and my Lmt are my workhorse, and seem to stay in my safe.
Sure my scar and apc is cool but parts are hard to find and expensive.
Why is no one talking about the Hi-point 995? You can probably buy 10 of them for the cost of some of these fancy rifles you're recommending.
Yes, I'm joking.
Yes, I'm joking.
Honestly like most already advised, i would get a couple of KACs, an HK SP5, Colt M4s are trickling back so at least one. Definitely add a Scar 17. This year scar 16 is bringing a huge premium as they are not in production due to switchover from Belgium to US and huge mil contracts FN working with.
Mid tier ars could bring premium today but once the frenzy is over they will be 1/3 the price and honestly not something i would want to pass down to my kids.
Mid tier ars could bring premium today but once the frenzy is over they will be 1/3 the price and honestly not something i would want to pass down to my kids.
You’ve got a lot of good information here.
Some feedback:
You’re right about it being hard to find parts now. Everything is scarce. That said, I’m completely clueless about builds... I’ll start working on a cheap shit build with a friend of mine, so I can at least speak intelligently about it. Even then, I think I’d probably still lean towards out of the box for a few reasons, namely
1)resale (if I want to)
2) warranty
Unfortunately, as a born and bred New Yorker, I’ve entered this game late, and feel pressure to get as much done in a short amount of time. So I’m looking for brands that I KNOW are good. Which, universally seems to be KAC, Larue, JP, Noveske and LMT. Wilson, LWRC and a few others seem to be right behind...
Of those, the only ones that are either available now or in a potential build are KAC (which is odd considering how legendary it’s reputation seems to be) and JP and Wilson if I’m willing to wait. LWRC shows up sporadically.
I think I’ve got to leave it to the professionals for now, and if Trump wins it’ll relieve some pressure.
As for cans, I’ve got one filed with SS for Sandman -L on my 300 blackout, and am eyeing the OSS TI.
This stuff is endlessly expensive; there’s always more to buy...
Welcome to the hobby/addiction!
Great choice with the Sandman, I've actually got an 'S' on order right now, myself. One of the most durable suppressors out there, with a normal firing schedule it will outlast many of your barrels. OSS seems to make nice cans, out the front SPL is higher but they are low backpressure, probably even lower than a Sandman, which is already relatively low backpressure. If you're not using an adjustable gas block, that can be nice. Also, remember on an AR15, port sound is more of a concern than muzzle for the shooter, and these lower backpressure cans sacrifice muzzle SPL for port SPL. Just be aware, TI suppressors mean you don't want to do mag dumps back to back. Some might hold up to it, but it's best to keep the suppressor temperature below 800F or so.
Totally copy you on resale, flip side, DIY is going to cost you a lot less too, and you'll have something that's "your own". I haven't resold anything I've personally built yet! That said, I think your plan is excellent, grab things to hang on for now, and learn with the friend. You'll figure out what you like and don't like, and it'll make DIY a lot more fun since you'll be getting exactly what you want/need for your purposes.
Out of the brands you mentioned in this post, I'd stick to KAC, LMT, and JP, just depending on what you want. KAC will be reliable and a combat-accuracy (whatever that means, figure on 1MOAish) shooter, LMT will be reliable and fairly accurate too, and JP will be the most accurate, but some question reliability. I have no experience with their reliability, never shot one enough to see it go down, nor have I seen one go down on a range. They're all great and I don't think you'll go wrong with any of them on resale, either. I'd have no issues with any of those three, but would probably go LMT if I didn't care about being parts-interchangeable with mil-spec everything.
You've got a good plan and I think all of this has been repeated ad nauseam, so I won't repeat what's already been said. You'll do fine with any of those three, and after you shoot a few you'll know more of what you want. The lowers are great on any of them, so you'll be able to swap around in the future if you find something you prefer and somehow 'new' lowers became illegal to acquire. I'd still grab a lower or two if I were you; minimal cost and you won't kick yourself later if you decide to build.
Do your research on ammo before stocking up, something that works well in the various platforms you’ve bought will be much better than buying anything and finding out later that you have 20,000 rounds of something terrible.
Handgun calibers and 5.56 have gone up quite a lot in price but .308 gets labeled generally as a hunting round and the match grade stuff hasn’t changed as much. It’s strange to see 5.56 selling for nearly the same price as match grade .308.
Handgun calibers and 5.56 have gone up quite a lot in price but .308 gets labeled generally as a hunting round and the match grade stuff hasn’t changed as much. It’s strange to see 5.56 selling for nearly the same price as match grade .308.
My AI is not a fan of the S&B and it has horrible SD values. The AG works very well. In fact, I don't even buy the ELD-M any longer
Yes sir- I’ve played around a bit and my KAC SR15, which is my primary 5.56, seems to like Hornady 75G BTHP. I bought a few thousand rounds but they’re quite expensive now.
Bought some IMI 77 gr but have t tried it yet.
No, I buy just about any ammo and then find one of my firearms that will shoot it well. The trick is to have enough firearms to be able to do that.....
That actually sounds like fun.
I’ve never shot competition so how about a $100 wager and I’ll pay my own entrance. You have a distinct advantage.
I’ll bring my K98 with factory WWII sites and surplus ammo. see how it does.
are you referring to the youtube video made by somebody that ran his scar-h suppressed on full auto with the gas setting wrong?
in any case, the Scar 20S is a different animal and even scar-h haters tend to like them.
the guys at Battlefield Vegas say the scar 16 are one of the most reliable rifles they have. "nothing breaks".
@ 8:10
don't even know why i care enough to defend them, lol. this guy hated the 17S.
Gun Review: FN SCAR 20S Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor - The Truth About Guns
FN-USA has re-released last year’s SCAR 20S in 6.5 Creedmoor, and it’s perfect. The new SCAR 20S is the same gun, with the same trigger, stock, upper, lower, rails, finish, everything as the gun they released last year, just in a different chambering with a different barrel assembly. It’s the...
no im not referring to this video. referring to dudes who used them in Afghanistan who had first hand experiences with them being Jam-O-Matics.
i don't see the video, but i think i have seen it. did you notice they could not even demonstrate the problem?
in any case, early issues with scar heavies running full auto suppressed on the wrong gas setting has little to do with the current Scar 20S available to us today.
Last edited:
Someone recommended the Tavor... I’m looking at that Tavor 7 and that looks really badass. Full ballistics a 16 inch barrel with a .308 out of a really compact weapon. Wow.
I think that may be the one... I’m just unsure if X95 or Tavor 7... I guess if I want wife to use it X95 makes more sense, less recoil?
totally up for that. You will be the first to ever sack up and take my offer. 4th Sunday. I’ll PM you the practiscore link for signup
I have to second your motion. I'm not into 5.56 or your basic AR15, but I promise you, If all I had was a cheap 16" AR15, A2 iron sights, and a stack of milspec ammo in magazines, I could do some serious damage at some impressive distance until I did get my hands on the rifle I wanted.
as for the B&T Ive owned both the APC9 and the APC9Pro. get the pro. its not that much more and the differences are worth it. Not sure if itll be here in time for november but the APC9Pro SD is the bees knees and I heard Tar Heel is taking preorders. Ive owned bout all the cool subguns popular these days and my opinion B and T takes the cake.
As for the Radian Model 1. Ive had alot of guns I said id never get rid of. I got rid of them. They will have to pry my radian out of my cold dead hands. I mean that. Owned alot of AR's. Some I built, some I bought built. Radian stands alone.
As for hard to find guns check Gunbroker.com. Just checked theres quite a few noveskes on there right now depending on what noveske you want. Ive found even in times like this, things can still be had, just have to know where to look.
gotta be honest in regards to warranty and your purpose for these rifles. The companies here now may not be here when its time to pass it to your kids. or your kids kids. shit remington just filed for bankruptcy for the second time in a decade. doubt many people saw that coming 20-25 years ago. companies like marlin have changed ownership countless times. the way so many of these companies are owned by massive corporations or groups. and than the small guys. will the small guys still be here if large capacity weapons get banned? what a warranty is now likely wont mean shit in 20 years.
Last edited:
Thanks for this... I only see the APC9k Pro available, and am unsure if that's too small for me... one guy here likes his. Can you compare your APC tot eh Banshee 300? That radial delayed blow-back looks good, especially for $1,000 less, but like you, many have expressed much love for the APC. It looks interesting in .308 too... very different of course,. THere's very little info on that.
Wow that is quite an endorsement for the Radian! You may have pushed me over the edge with that. Anything in particular that stands out to you about the Radian? I can see it looks great, but what else?
im not a fan of the apc9k, not enough real estate for my forward hand. but different strokes for different folks. as for compared to the banshee, ive not played with that one so anything I say Id be making up. Theres a bunch of different APC9s on gunbroker. K's, Glock Lowers, Pros.
the stribog is basically a knock off of the apc with different insides. after owning a couple apcs theres no way I could possibly not have a biased opinion about the cheap subgun that ripped off the best ones design.
as for the radian, the only knock on it is the weight. but other than that, everything else about it is top notch. and the weight isnt a knock its just a sum of the weight of the really awesome components they used. it doesnt feel like one of those super light rifles thats gonna break if you had to hit someone with it. I mean I could go part by part and tell you everything I like about the charging handle, trigger, takedown pins, ambi functions, accuracy, recoil impulse, etc.. but its just easier to tell you to go watch this video.
He rather accurately describes the rifle.
I also like a company that allows you to order exactly what you want. What size barrel, what size handguard, what stock and grip, what muzzle device, what color, etc, etc.
I also own a deadair sandman L. Youll love it. and radian can put a dead air brake or hider on there for you so it comes ready for your can.
Thanks for that APC input, it helps.
I watched Garand Thumbs video and its what really peaked my interest. I think I'll go for it this week!
I don't see the option on their website for the brake/hider, do I need to call/ email about that?
Also, do you have any other cans you run? I'm looking at OSS because I'd really hate having to clean my guns as often as would be required.
Not sure what guys in AFG you're talking about, but my company loved them. Obviously we weren't the only ones to run Scar Heavies(17's), but in my experience...in AFG, we liked the 17's and we liked them enough to keep them for most of the battalion...and returned the Scar Lights(16's).
There were initial issues with both models, mainly the barrel change system. The only memory I have of any of them jamming with any regularity was the Scar Lights...and that was because of the crappy mags they came with. We switched to pmags and that seemed to work better, although the HK Steel mags ran the best.
Similar threads
