help me pick an AR

B

big_matt_duq

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Minuteman
Feb 18, 2010
254
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southwest pa
#1
Trying to decide between RRA predator pursuit, RRA coyote rifle, bushmaster predator, and dpms tpr. Leaning towards the coyote but the dpms looks good too. Anyone know what the availability of the rock rivers is like now? I want the gun because it is in the works to legalize them for predator and varmint hunting in pa. Also want to shoot steel out to like 600. I liked the weight being about 8 lbs. Thinking about putting a monarch 4-16 on it. I also was leaning towards a gun with rails on the handguard that way I could mount a coyote light there instead of on the scope. So what do you all think? This is my first ar so I figured I would ask the pros. I'm more of a bolt gun guy.
Thanks,
Matt
 
#3
Well. Rock River is a good gun. DPMS also makes a good gun. I've got a RR coyote w/16" barrel. Shoots tight little groups at 100 meters. My DPMS 3G2 also makes nice hole clusters on the paper. I'm guessing you don't want to buy two or three rifles to "try" them out. Main difference between the two is RR has a lifetime warranty. And also a 3/4 MOA guarantee on the Coyote model. Other RR models have a little less tight MOA guarantee. The DPMS only has a three year warranty, and they make no claims as to the accuracy. Both shoot 5.56mm or .223. The RR has what's called a .223 Wylde chamber. That's the terminology for there chambering. DPMS doesn't call their chambering anything special. Just says 5.56mm/.223. If you look at used guns take note. Older AR's were not all chambered to take both. It has been said you should not fire 5.56mm NATO from a chamber designated as .223 only. Apparently it's the pressure differences that they worry about. But if a rifle is chambered in 5.56mm NATO, you are safe to fire either round. All of the newer rifles you find will most likely be stamped 5.56mm/.223. I think it's partly to cut down on the confusion, but also to assure people of what the gun can handle. I personally would not fire rounds that were not the caliber stamped on the receiver. But I have also heard that the guys at DPMS would fire either/or through there guns. I have not personally verified that, but it would not surprise me. Some people go to great lengths to prove their rifle is the toughest and will eat anything they load in the mag. Just follow the suggestions in the owners manual and I'm sure either rifle will work well.
 
#4
I wouldn't hesitate a second to choose the RRA Coyote over the DPMS. I have e RRA's and they both are well built quality AR's with great NM triggers. Both are well under 1 moa shooters. i'd also take a look at the RRA ATH.
 
#5
i have a dpms sweet sixteen and it is easily sub moa. I was sub moa with the original trigger but i replaced it with the timney drop which made a huge difference for my stepson. I'm just used to a gritty military trigger. For price versus accuracy i don't think they can be beat. Reliability has been excellent. maybe to fte in 3 years and i shoot quite a bit. I don't know about the rest of the dpms line but the sweet 16 is rock solid and they are $736 at buds gun shop right now.
 
#6
Take a look at the MMR AR15 by Mossberg. I have 2 of them and no issue to smacking steel at 600 yards.
They have a 20" barrel, 1/9" twist and no FWD assist or dust cover, but those are not needed anyway IMO.
One is dedicated for night coyote calling w/a D740 scope on it and the other is a day coyote rig w/a 4-16x40 Nikon scope.
They run about $730, CDNN has them at $689 with extras right now, no waiting.
No side rails on it, but you can add those to the FF tube.
Both my MMRs print under an inch at 100 yds w/my handloads.
 
#7
Between the ones mentioned I would put RRA at the top of the list. I have seen decently built DPMS's and some not so much. As far as Bushmaster goes, I think they are lacking in quality ever since they departed ways from their old facility and staff.
 
#9
Windham weaponry (aka old bushmaster) makes a 20" lightweight with a fluted stainless 8 twist barrel with a 2 stage trigger for a little over 1k. I'd go that route

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
 
#10
I own a RRA elite car. It has, at the very least 2K through it with probably 500 suppressed. I have changed only the gas block to a Micro Moa Govnah. It has not had any sort of failure. Not one!
 
#14
Well I don't want a brake. Too loud. I'm leaning towards the rra coyote or dpms tpr for the simple idea of the rails. Would like you mount the kill light on the front left of the handguard with a quick release mount. Atlas bipod on the bottom. I would like a 8 twist but I'm thinking since they have to be mag length anyway the 75 grain hornady bthp would be the heaviest I would go. Hopefully they should stabilize in a 9 twist. Other bullet I want to try is the 65 gameking. My goal is to not blow up foxes. Forgot to mention I'll be working up loads for plan b, a 223 sps tac bolt gun. Just in case pa doesn't pass the hunting with semi.
 
#16
I had an RRA Coyote Carbine in 2009 and sold it to buy a 'better more accurate AR'. I've had 20+ ARs since then (all the best names) and have not had one that is more accurate than that Coyote Carbine. That thing was stupid accurate for an AR---I would buy another without hesitation.
 
#21
Infringed711 said:
Out of the choices RRA for sure, I've never owned one but I have had a dpms and I wouldn't buy one again
Click to expand...

Just got a DPMS 24" .223
Out shoots my jp ! DPMS 1/2" with Hornady AMMO 55 v max.
55 Blitzkings 25 grs of xbr 8208 3300 m.v. 1/2" or better!
I put in a Geissele ssa e
Razer sharp crown, upper and lower fit tight, no copper fouling. Very nicely done !
I think i will put the jp up for sale.
 
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#22
LV 426 said:
Just got a DPMS 24" .223
Out shoots my jp ! DPMS 1/2" with Hornady AMMO 55 v max.
55 Blitzkings 25 grs of xbr 8208 3300 m.v. 1/2" or better!
I put in a Geissele ssa e
Razer sharp crown, upper and lower fit tight, no copper fouling. Very nicely done !
I think i will put the jp up for sale.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you had a positive experience, I didn't. Rifle had FTF/FTE issues, sloppy upper/lower fit and was about 3moa with match ammo. Granted it's been years and they might have got their shit together but my experience left a bad taste in my mouth.
 
#23
Infringed711 said:
I'm glad you had a positive experience, I didn't. Rifle had FTF/FTE issues, sloppy upper/lower fit and was about 3moa with match ammo. Granted it's been years and they might have got their shit together but my experience left a bad taste in my mouth.
Click to expand...

There r bad one's out there. Also the bullet touches the lands at 2.2600. Thats got to be. .223 chamber ????
On barrel stamped DPMS .223 1 in 9.
 
#24
LV 426 said:
Just got a DPMS 24" .223
Out shoots my jp ! DPMS 1/2" with Hornady AMMO 55 v max.
55 Blitzkings 25 grs of xbr 8208 3300 m.v. 1/2" or better!
I put in a Geissele ssa e
Razer sharp crown, upper and lower fit tight, no copper fouling. Very nicely done !
I think i will put the jp up for sale.
Click to expand...

Infringed711 said:
I'm glad you had a positive experience, I didn't. Rifle had FTF/FTE issues, sloppy upper/lower fit and was about 3moa with match ammo. Granted it's been years and they might have got their shit together but my experience left a bad taste in my mouth.
Click to expand...

LV 426 said:
There r bad one's out there. Also the bullet touches the lands at 2.2600. Thats got to be. .223 chamber ????
On barrel stamped DPMS .223 1 in 9.
Click to expand...

Good or bad individual experiences aside, DPMS is a bottom feeder in the AR15 world. They make a product with some of the worst quality control out there. Parts that are out of spec and would be discarded by companies like Colt and BCM are used by DPMS.

Now does this mean all DPMS rifles stink? No, they make a bazillion of them so I'm sure there are lots of happy DPMS owners out there. The problem is that a much higher percentage of turds make it out of the factory than with other makers.

The very top shelf AR makers are (in no particular order):

Colt
Daniel Defense
BCM (Bravo Company)
Noveske (IMO super top shelf)
KAC (super top as well)
Centurion
LMT
Colt

I'm sure there are a few others I've missed. You'll notice I put colt on the list twice. That's because a list of "fighting" ARs begins and ends with Colt.

Now about Rock River, RRA is a company that uses some non-milspec parts and that earns them a middle to lower end reputation for quality of build. RRA is always rated very high in accuracy though and they tend to specialize in building accurate ARs instead of "fighting" ARs. If you are looking for a long distance AR then Rock river is a good place to start. Just know that RRA rifles are made with accuracy in mind, not longevity.

My favorite AR maker is BCM. I've had a couple of them including one of these:

BCM SS410™ 18" Rifle Length Upper Receiver Group w/ VTAC ALPHA 13" Handguard 1/8 Twist

^^^^ If you are looking for an accurate AR upper look hard at one of these. Mine consistently shot 1/4 MOA at 100 yards with 69gr SMKs.
 
Last edited:
#25
I would recommend buying the parts you want and assembling it yourself or paying someone to assemble it.

For the price of the RRA you mentioned you could build a rifle with a decent match barrel, a Geissele SSA trigger, and what ever rail you preferred.

For example:

$75 - stripped lower
$210 - Geissele SSA
$50 - lower parts kit
$75 - buffer tube assembly
$75 - stock
$120 - upper receiver assembly
$50 - charging handle
$100 - BCG
$300 - match barrel
$50 - low profile gas block and gas tube
$200 - free float rail

Totals about $1300, then what ever labor charge is necessary to have it assembled.
 
Last edited:
#26
just get an ATH

crazy light weight and accurate


big_matt_duq said:
Trying to decide between RRA predator pursuit, RRA coyote rifle, bushmaster predator, and dpms tpr. Leaning towards the coyote but the dpms looks good too. Anyone know what the availability of the rock rivers is like now? I want the gun because it is in the works to legalize them for predator and varmint hunting in pa. Also want to shoot steel out to like 600. I liked the weight being about 8 lbs. Thinking about putting a monarch 4-16 on it. I also was leaning towards a gun with rails on the handguard that way I could mount a coyote light there instead of on the scope. So what do you all think? This is my first ar so I figured I would ask the pros. I'm more of a bolt gun guy.
Thanks,
Matt
Click to expand...
 
#27
atctimmy said:
Good or bad individual experiences aside, DPMS is a bottom feeder in the AR15 world. They make a product with some of the worst quality control out there. Parts that are out of spec and would be discarded by companies like Colt and BCM are used by DPMS.

Now does this mean all DPMS rifles stink? No, they make a bazillion of them so I'm sure there are lots of happy DPMS owners out there. The problem is that a much higher percentage of turds make it out of the factory than with other makers.

The very top shelf AR makers are (in no particular order):

Colt
Daniel Defense
BCM (Bravo Company)
Noveske (IMO super top shelf)
KAC (super top as well)
Centurion
LMT
Colt

I'm sure there are a few others I've missed. You'll notice I put colt on the list twice. That's because a list of "fighting" ARs begins and ends with Colt.

Now about Rock River, RRA is a company that uses some non-milspec parts and that earns them a middle to lower end reputation for quality of build. RRA is always rated very high in accuracy though and they tend to specialize in building accurate ARs instead of "fighting" ARs. If you are looking for a long distance AR then Rock river is a good place to start. Just know that RRA rifles are made with accuracy in mind, not longevity.

My favorite AR maker is BCM. I've had a couple of them including one of these:

BCM SS410™ 18" Rifle Length Upper Receiver Group w/ VTAC ALPHA 13" Handguard 1/8 Twist

^^^^ If you are looking for an accurate AR upper look hard at one of these. Mine consistently shot 1/4 MOA at 100 yards with 69gr SMKs.
Click to expand...

I've had a les baer super v. And les baer 6.5 grendel, & colt 6724 JP CTR 02 DPMS sweet 16 ,
Lb super v 1/4" with 77 smk
Lb 6.5 grendel 1/2 with black hills gold
Colt 6724 1"
Sweet 16 1/4" with 55 v max
My new 24" looks just like les baers. I've. Never seen a crown that good on a DPMS, & the tight fit?
And with hornady ammo #8327 1/2" @ 100 wow.
Could it be custom ordered & someone could not pay for it???????
Ejected brass 3 feet all in same place.
I've. Had it 9 days & and it shoots amazing, they said if yo dont like it bring it back!
They handed me a armalite the crown was &#$#ed up.
 
Last edited:
#28
LV 426 said:
I've had a les baer super v. And les baer 6.5 grendel, & colt 6724 JP CTR 02 DPMS sweet 16 ,
Lb super v 1/4" with 77 smk
Lb 6.5 grendel 1/2 with black hills gold
Colt 6724 1"
Sweet 16 1/4" with 55 v max
My new 24" looks just like les baers. I've. Never seen a crown that good on a DPMS, & the tight fit?
And with hornady ammo #8327 1/2" @ 100 wow.
Could it be custom ordered & someone could not pay for it???????
Ejected brass 3 feet all in same place.
I've. Had it 9 days & and it shoots amazing, they said if yo dont like it bring it back!
They handed me a armalite the crown was &#$#ed up.
Click to expand...

Cool, I'm glad you got a good one. Like I said, they make a gazillion ARs so I'm sure some of them are OK. It's just the probability of getting a turd is much higher with DPMS than with other makers. Heck, maybe they take more time on their long range guns or they source a better barrel maker than on their standard line. I do know that their chambers are consistently out of spec and frequently need to be reamed. Check your chamber with a gauge and let us know how it looks.

Also, many reputable makers like Colt are geared more towards a fighting rifle and not towards long range accuracy so tiny groups isn't always the measure of a maker. I wouldn't suggest a Colt 6920 to somebody wanting tiny groups but I would suggest a 6920 to somebody who wants a gun they can bet their life on. It just depends on your priorities.
 
#29
atctimmy said:
Cool, I'm glad you got a good one. Like I said, they make a gazillion ARs so I'm sure some of them are OK. It's just the probability of getting a turd is much higher with DPMS than with other makers. Heck, maybe they take more time on their long range guns or they source a better barrel maker than on their standard line. I do know that their chambers are consistently out of spec and frequently need to be reamed. Check your chamber with a gauge and let us know how it looks.

Also, many reputable makers like Colt are geared more towards a fighting rifle and not towards long range accuracy so tiny groups isn't always the measure of a maker. I wouldn't suggest a Colt 6920 to somebody wanting tiny groups but I would suggest a 6920 to somebody who wants a gun they can bet their life on. It just depends on your priorities.
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
#30
That bravo upper is nice. I actually was thinking about the rock river ATH as well. Building one... thought about it but for my first ar I'm not sure I know enough to pick what I want and then put it all together. This is going to be a hunting and long range plinker. Accuracy is high up on the list. This isn't going to be a defense or fighting gun nor am I going to war. It does gave to be a little tough because its going to get used but I tend to take reasonable care of my shit. Realistically, how hard is it to put together an accurate ar? I'm also trying to justify a RR coyote or predator And something like the RR ATH
 
#31
I had a DPMS in a 204 that shot absolutely awesome. I also had a DPMS in a sweet sixteen that shot great. I had a sixteen inch Rockriver that really shined. I still have a 18" Rockriver predator pursuit that shoots lights out. I suppose the moral of the story is, both guns shoot awesome. lol And we didn't even get into the Bushy's.
 
#32
Have a couple of RRAs and have been happy. February edition of Peterson's Hunting magazine had the RRA Fred Eichler beat out bolt guns in accuracy/velocity/follow-up shots. Not the exact model you are looking at but I think a testament to the brand and I'm sure you'd be happy with an RRA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#33
Just a thought, take a look at the Colt CRP18. Sold my RRA to buy it and have never looked back. 600yds, no problem. Stretched out to 800 with 75's on Friday. Just my .02


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