Rifle Scopes Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

[Sniper Monkey]

Let me preface this by stating that I have shot pistol for years, but have just recently started shooting rifle. Earlier this year after a lot of research, I bought a 18" LaRue OBR, and have been extremely happy with it. I have been shooting it with the iron sights, and am now ready to purchase a scope. I will be using this mainly for target shooting but will probably use it to hunt with at a later time. With practice, I would like to get out to 800 or 1,000 yards target shooting. I was looking at the Leopold Mark 4, but after reading a lot of posts, have decided on a Nightforce. The way I see it, when you are spending that much cash, an extra $400 or so for a Nightforce is well worth it. So, I was looking at the 5.5-22x56 NXS mainly with zero stop and illuminated reticle. It is the same price as the 5.5-22x50, so I figured more light for the same price, why not. I saw a 8-32x56 NXS, but figure that is probably way more magnification than I need. The Benchrest models look interesting as well, but I don't really know the difference except for the MOA I guess, and that you can't get zero stop on them.

Two main questions. Any opinions on the 5.5-22x56 versus the other scopes that I mentioned in terms of what I am using it for. Pros and cons would be helpful. The other question is the reticle. I am stuck on this. I was first thinking mil dot, then TMR with the Leupold, but am now thinking about the MLR versus NP-R1. I know that people say that whatever you are used to is good, but as I am just learning, so I can learn with either one. Any preferences between the MLR versus the NP-R1 for long distance shooting, any pluses or minuses? Any other options on these scopes that I should consider? I figure that I will have this for the rest of my life, so might as well get something that will last.

Any info is helpful.

Thanks.

 

[remau308]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

Easy, go with the 5.5-22x50mm and rock on. The reason against a 56mm objective on an AR platform is the height of the cheek weld. The 50mm will keep your cheek weld lower, and you won't see that much difference in light gathering between the two. Also, the downsides to the benchrest models opposed to the NXS is the benchrest scopes don't have as much elevation adjustment to get you to 1000 yards if that's your plan one day. As for the reticle, go for the MLR with the 0.1 mil turrets. The argument of mil versus moa is very common. With mil, most people use it and get familiar with it while they're in service, and the reason I use it is because it takes less revolutions on the turret to get to 1000yards. However, the argument for moa is it is easier to picture in your head since at 100 yards, 1moa is really close to 1 inch. So, there's some food for your thought, but my personal opinion is to get the NXS 5.5-22x50mm with MLR reticle, 0.1 mil turrets, zero stop, and high speed turrets aren't really a must have for me.

Troy

PS- +1 for the advice on the 2.5-10 stated below by sendero man, I really like the 10x nightforce as well.

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

unless you are doing lots of long range stuff, you might also consider the 2.5-10x32 for the AR platform. I really like them !

Otherwise, what was stated above is good advice....

 

[Sniper Monkey]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

Thanks for the info guys. I spoke with 2 different gun shops as well, and they said pretty much the same thing 5.5-22x50. Now the last thing is the reticle. NP-R1 with MOA turrents, or MLR with mil turrents. Any real pros or cons to either? I am leaning towards NP-R1 for really no reason, but its a hard decision. Help please...

 

[VKC]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

I agree with going with 2.5-10x32 or maybe 3.5-15x50. The 22x to too much unless all you're going to do is long-range still target shooting.

 

[VKC]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

Get the zerostop but high speed turrets aren't needed because the clicks can be too fine.

 

[magnum_99]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

IMO the 3.5-15x50 is just about the perfect scope for that rifle. If you want to hunt, you will appreciate the lower power/FOV and the eye box is great at 15x. The 5.5-22 gets slightly dim at full power and the eye box tightens up, and 5.5 x is a little too high for hunting at closer ranges. As was said, the 56mm objective is a little much for an AR style rifle.

The only real choice for me would be FFP or SPF and the reticle. The MLR is pretty thin, but makes ranging easier. The hollow mil-dots are still really good for what they are, but I would probably go with the Horus.

 

[ColoWyo]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

I had the 5.5-22 with the NP-R1 reticle. I sold it and got the 3.5-15 with the MLR2 reticle and couldn't be happier.

A reticle that has two different subtensions just doesn't make sense. The vertical subtensions are 1 MOA and the windage are 2 MOA. With a MIL based scope, the subtensions are the same on the vertical and the horizontal.

Also, if you are gonna use hold overs for wind, the NXS reticle is only accurate at the highest power setting (unless you get the f1). I imagine the mirage in west Texas can be really bad at 22x. I'd go with the 3.5-15 for sure.

A even better idea would be to save up and get the F1 model.

 

[Sniper Monkey]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

I looked at the NP-RF1 on Nightforce's website, and to me it looks like the elevation and windage markings are the same - 1 MOA. Is this correct? I was under the impression that all of the reticles were in the first focal plane, but I guess only the F1 reticles are. So I guess the question is can I get the F1 reticles on the above 2 scopes 5.5-22 and 3.5-15?

Also, which way to go, mil vs moa? I've read a lot about both, and it sounds that it is a matter of taste which one to get. Is working with mils faster than moa in terms of adjustments (I know that it takes more turns to make the same adjustment using moa vs mils), or does it honestly really matter?

 

[Sniper Monkey]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

Other question I was wondering, if I did get the 5.5-22, at 5.5 magnification, how close could you comfortably shoot a moving target 100 yards, 50 yards, 20 yards compared with the 3.5? For the most part I will be using this rifle for long distance shooting - few hundred yards, but would like to be able to use it for some hunting as well without having to buy another scope.

 

[jaycoux]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

I run a 2.5-15 Nightforce with the mlr FFP reticle and mil turrets on my OBR and love it. I shoot 1000 yd ranges with it, and 15X is more than enough. I have also hunted hogs with it and the 3.5X is very handy when you get into something close up, especially at night.

I also have a few of the compact 2.5-10X nightforce scopes on my hunting rifles and like them as well. Depending on how you hunt, it may be a viable option for you as the OBR setup is already quite heavy to start. The compact is a bit lighter (10 oz or so if memory serves), and should help a little. The compact scopes work very well in failing light despite the 32mm objective. I have shot to 750 with the compact scopes and did not have a problem with it at all.

Hope that helps,
j

 

[Sniper Monkey]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

So, I called Nightforce, and the F1 is only available in the 3.5-15x50, and the subtensions are 1 MOA going both ways (windage and elevation). The guy at Nighrforce says that in his opinion, the 3.5x15 is a better match for the Larue .308 than the 5.5-22, just like you guys have been saying. My only concern is seeing a target at 1,000 yards and getting an accurate shot out that far at 15 magnification. I read some reviews on opticsplanet.com (I don't work for them) about this scope, and two of them stated that they shot out accurately to 1,000 yards and 1,500 yards. The guy at Nightforce also said that in his opinion, if I am shooting in terms of yards, than I should go with MOA, instead of mils. I like the NP-RF1 reticle as well, so I am leaning that way, unless there is a big reason not to. Is acquiring and changing targets like from 1,000 yards to 300 yards to 587 yards that much faster with mils than moa, or is there not really a big difference between the two once you get to know them?

So do you guys, especially you ColoWyo (since you had both the scopes) see a problem with the 3.5-15 reaching out to 1,000 yards accurately for target shooting and such?

Sorry about all of the questions, but once I kind of decide on a scope, I end up with more questions, and change my mind again. I figure I am spending about $2k, and want to make sure I get the right thing. I think that I have it narrowed down now, so I am almost there

Also, why is the H58 reticle so expensive? Not looking to buy one, but just curious.

Thanks again.

 

[LawnMM]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

3.5-15 is plenty of power to get to 1000 yards, beyond that more might be a worthwhile investment but if you aren't shooting past 1k I would say 15x on the top end is plenty.

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

I shoot out to 1000 with my 2.5-10x32 ...

10 power is plenty and you don't have to mess with Parallax adjustment either !

edit... the Mil guys will tell ya to buy Mil.. the MOA guys, moa. You are the operator... if you think in inches, feet and yards, then buy in MOA

 

[AK-Bandit]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

I was in the same boat last month. I went with the 5.5-22x50mm MOA NPR1 w/ zero stop and high speed turrets. I like the philosophy of "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it". If anything, the extra magnification can help spot hits at longer ranges. Also, I'm pretty sure that the high speed turrets are standard on any new Nightforce scope.
I went with the 50mm objective because I wanted the scope to sit lower. I used Nightforce 1.375" rings. I probably could have gotten away with 1.25" rings, but these are fine. I'm waiting on my PRS stock.
Here are a couple pictures for reference. With and without the shade.

 

[SurgicalPrecision]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

I just want to chime in here and say that I've shot MOA groups at 1000 yards with a 6.5 Grendel AR-15 using a fixed 10X. My choice would be the 3.5-15X. Keep in mind also that additional magnification sacrifices the range of adjustment for your elevation and windage. Probably a non-issue on your rifle with the scopes you're considering but just a little food for thought.

 

[tnichols]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

My vote is for the 3.5-15X50 as well. That will be PLENTY of magnification for what you want to do. You are getting good advice from those above. For me, MOA/MOA works for my old brain better, but we all have our personal reasons, and if Mil/Mil works for you, go with it. One final bit of advice. The NP-R1 reticle in the SFP models is very fine. Read the instructions and focus it by the book. For my older eyes, it doesn't stand out against background vegatition real well in certain conditions. I started a thread on here awhile back concerning this entitled "NP-R1 reticle too fine for my eyes" or something like that. Use the search feature, and maybe read up on what folks had to say before you purchase a paticular reticle.

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

the 3.5 version is finer and harder to see, the 5.5 is heavier by a tad and is not as cluttered as the 3.5 version of the R1, making it easier to see and use.

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

AK-bandit is correct, all new model NF scopes come with HS turrets. zero stop is the option.

 

[Conrad101st]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

The weight differnce between 3.5-15 and 5.5-22 is almost the same. Therefore, why not have more juice for the same penalty if you are going bigger. Unless you are literally kicking in doors, you can still use 5.5 up close for deer and such.

My bud had the 5.5-22x56 on his OBR and hated the 56 obj on his NXS compared with the 50mm for the exact reasons stated above.

Both of us went with the 2.5-10x24 with NPR2 reticle on our 308 b/c its plenty powerful to reach out on deer, zombies, clones and coyotes. Plus it has more illumination control. I have the LMT.

I have a 5.5-22x50 NPR1 reticle on my 50BMG.

All our NF's have Z-stops which are nice. Never played with the high speed turrets.

 

[platapus]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

I was recently in the same situation. I went with the 3.5-15x56 on my Dtech. 243 wssm. I run the Burris AR PEPR mount and have more than enough room for the 56mm. If you have a A2 stock, you will be G2G. If you have a collapsible, the cheek weld may be off a little.

I sold my MK 4 to upgrade to the NF. I really liked the TMR reticle. The NF I went with is the MLR MIL/MIL. The NF is built like a tank compared to the Leupold. I also had a major delima in deciding MOA vs MIL. The reason I went with the MLR was for learning the ranging.

Best of luck with your decision. If you would like some pics comparing the 50 mm to the 56mm on an AR platform, shoot me a PM and I will be happy to get you a couple. I have them both on AR's.

 

[TonyTRG]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

15X is plenty for target shooting at 1000 yd

50mm objective would be my choice - Unless you're doing a lot of shooting in low light/night

The NPR1 is very fine as has been stated above. Good for targets, not so good for hunting. I believe the mil rets are slightly thicker - I wish they would do a solid heavy outer cross hair (like a S&B PF4) - would be good for hunting.

I own a 3.5-15x50 np-r2 and a 5.5-22x50 np-r1 and will be keeping both, I use them for target and hunting.

Maybe if I was starting over I would have gone with mil/mil.

Zero stops are cool.

Tony.

 

[MD2Colo]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

If you are on a budget, Leupold...but that doesn't seem to be an issue since you're driving an OBR. I have a feeling that if you put a Mk4 on that OBR, then you look though a buddy's NXS you will sell the Mk4 and buy an NXS.
-edit
The only thing Leupold has on NF is the ease of adjustment on the illuminated reticle.
Some people like the entire ocular moving when adjusting magnification (NF), some don't. Some don't like the ocular adjustment on Leupolds (no lock ring). I prefer NF's lockring and the entire ocular moving, makes adjusting zoom faster and requires less dexterity from your hand.

My recommendation would be a MLR/MIL ZS/HS 3.5-15x50.
I have no experience with MOA reticles, so I go with what I know and keep it MIL in that department. Obviously, that's just me though.


On my SASS, I use the 3.5-15x50. Plenty of scope for that system. Has the Mil dot, HS ZS MOA knobs. Love that scope.

Also have the same exact scope on my 5R/AICS 2.0; no complaints there.

I'm putting together a 300wm, plan to use the 5.5-22x56 with MIL/MIL MLR. I also like the TMR from Leupold and look forward to using NF's version. The extra mag will help with the 30 plus rifle, plus having a larger obj should help with exit pupil.

 

[Sandbogg]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

The 3-15 F1 MLR-2 would be a perfect match on your OBR.
The mil adjustments are easier to keep track of and the dope chart is easier on the eyes since it lines up better ( you are dealing with numbers like 1.0, 1.1,1.2mils rather than 1.25.1.5, 1.75 MOA). This may not seem like a big deal but under stress on your worst day shooting it can make a difference between getting a shot off and vapor locking. I was an MOA guy but made the switch and will never go back. First focal plane is a must as well, once again it makes everything a little simpler. As to shooting at distance, I recently shot my F1 3-15 F1 to 2500 yards and it worked fine, so 1000 is no problem. I prefer more magnification, but the 3-15 is an outstanding compromise.the 5-22 mil / MLR HS ZS is also a great scope, but the second focal plane reticle makes it a close second choice in my opinion.

 

[Sniper Monkey]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

I want to thank everyone for your help. All of this information has been extremely helpful. In the past week I have changed my mind to about 3 different scopes, and the price range I was looking at has gone up as well

I have decided on the Nightforce 3.5-15X50 F1. The only decision that remains is between the NP-RF1/MOA vs. MLR2/Mil. People suggest Mil or MOA, but I haven't seen any pros or cons. I think that a lot of it is what you are used to. Someone did mention earlier that the NPR1 is harder to see hunting because it was thinner. I don't know if the NP-RF1 has the same issue. Can you guys give me the pros and cons of Mil vs. Moa and/or NP-RF1 vs. MLR2 reticle. I will mainly be using this for target shooting, but will probably be doing some hunting with it as well.

Thank you again.

 

[Andy Warhog]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

First of all, where are you hunting and what are you hunting for? 22x is pretty hefty and you'll probably NEVER see it when firing at a live target. It's even more than needed for paper, especially with a 308.
Go with a 56mm obj for sure, they gather a ton of light, but I'd seriously consider a 3.5-15. It's more than enough for 1000 yd shooting and beyond, but your lower magnification settings will be better suited for hunting purposes.
As far as reticles go, a mildot or mlr would probably work pretty well for you. Both allow you to range your target and do a quick hold over if you don't have time for clicks.
First focal planes are nice to have too, that way you don't have to worry about what setting you're on when you have a wall hanger stepping out of the brush and you need to find out just how far away he is.

 

[DamnYuppie]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sniper Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My only concern is seeing a target at 1,000 yards and getting an accurate shot out that far at 15 magnification. I read some reviews on opticsplanet.com (I don't work for them) about this scope, and two of them stated that they shot out accurately to 1,000 yards and 1,500 yards. </div></div>

I have a 3.5-15x50. I have shot it out to 1,000 several times. If you are shooting at targets that are at least 10 inches you will have not problem seeing them with that scope. As for getting out there accurately that has more to do with you and the rifle then the scope.

 

[Sandbogg]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

The F1 is a great choice. I have the the MLR 2.0. ( there are two versions of the MLR2 reticle with the newest one being bolder and marked in even numbers, it is a very good improvement).

I have also seen the new NPRF1 (MOA reticle) and it to is equally impressive. Like I said above I much prefer mil on mil, I used to be an MOA guy but after trying mil I will not be going back to MOA anytime soon. It is faster and simpler system in my opinion.

As to the 3-15 SFP with npr1 it is a very thin Reticle, be warned! However in the 5-22 the npr1 works great and appears a little bolder.

As to long range shooting, is 2500yards long enough for you? The F1 worked fine at 2500. Yes , sometimes more mag is nice, but I would rather have more and more elevation adjustment.When it gets warm out, I find my 5-22 nxs at 10-15 power most of the time any way.


MLR 2.0 ;

 

[Sniper Monkey]

Re: Help selecting a Nightforce scope please...

Good to know that there is a MLR 2.0. This information isn't even on their web site. Guess they will be getting a call on Monday. Just out of curiosity, where did you get your scope from? Smaller stores say they are on back order 3-6 mos due to military contracts, etc... Found them on optics planet, etc. The image of the reticle on optics planet has the 5 & 10 markings, doesn't have the even numbers. Wonder if you can pick, or if the even numbers are on the newer reticles, and the reticle image they have is older. If I go mil, need to find the 2.0. Like how it looks in the picture that you posted. Marks are easy to see, even with the trees. Thanks for the picture. Gonna stick with the 3-15. I'll buy a higher mag scope when I get my 50 BMG someday