Gunsmithing help with bedding problem

[shooter.dm]

ok kinda freaking out. I just bedded my howa 1500 in 6.5 47 lapua in a b n c stock . Before I I did it it would shoot on average .3 to .4 . now after bedding with same load it strings vertical going down each shot under the last with 5 shots at over a inch wtf I run my load over the chrono thinking my extreme spread might be outrageous and its only 19fps with a sd of 7fps. does this sound like a problem any one has had before. was shooting off of front and rear bag

 

[I Am Hero]

Man, if you have .3 to .4 before bedding, why did you even bother?

 

[buffalowinter]

Sounds like something is touching the barrel. Make sure it is free floating. Did you bed the first inch of the barrel or stop at the receiver ring? If you bedded the first inch of the barrel try removing the bedding to where only the receiver is bedded. Failing all that, re-bed. I'm assuming it's glassed. I always glass bed the action with pillars around the action screws.

 

[shooter.dm]

I used devcon and I can get a dollar bill all the way down.

 

[shooter.dm]

Man, if you have .3 to .4 before bedding, why did you even bother?

I figured what can it hurt might shoot in the .1 to low .2 boy was I wrong

 

[buffalowinter]

Well, the stringing is usually a symptom of some type of pressure on the barrel, but you seem to have eliminated that as a possibility. It sounds like you're going to have to re-bed. I always pillar bed, using Brownells pillars, and I bed the action. There has been a trend towards just bedding the action on the two pillars with no other contact. This is usually how factories bed their rifles as it is cheap and easy as compared to pillar bedding the entire action. You might try bedding the first inch or so of the barrel and see if that helps...you can always cut it out later. Usually, on big bore guns, I free-float the entire barrel. However I have had guns that wouldn't group well and had improved groups from bedding the first inch or two the barrel.

 

[shooter.dm]

well the stock has a full aluminum block on witch the actions sits on.

 

[buffybuster]

Man, if you have .3 to .4 before bedding, why did you even bother?

This! I wouldn't have touched it.

Did you tape the bottom and front of the recoil lug area when you bedded?

 

[thrusty]

By bedding it you either induced (if you did it wrong) or relieved any stress on the action and/or barrel. Doing either will affect your groups and any load development you may have established.
Funny thing is that sometimes, there is (good) stress on the action in just the right places that make a load shoot good. I've seen it in my McM stock before I had it bedded. After it was bedded I just had to tweak the load.

Before you flip out -- You need to try different ammo to see if you can get the accuracy back. If nothing shoots...then flip out and consider removing the bedding.

I wouldn't have touched a rifle that already shoot good in bedding block.

 

[shooter.dm]

This! I wouldn't have touched it.

Did you tape the bottom and front of the recoil lug area when you bedded?

yes I did

 

[DALE '45]

Shooter,
Dollar bill clearance is probably not enough. Hold the rifle near the front screw and rap the forend with the flat of your hand smartly. The barrel should not touch when you do this. Depending on the stiffness of the forend you will be surprised how much clearance you need. A little soot or inletting black will tell you when you are free floated. Bet thats your troubles. Dale

 

[MAGUA]

What was the torque on the action screws prior to you bedding the rifle ?

 

[shooter.dm]

65 in pounds

 

[shooter.dm]

Shooter,
Dollar bill clearance is probably not enough. Hold the rifle near the front screw and rap the forend with the flat of your hand smartly. The barrel should not touch when you do this. Depending on the stiffness of the forend you will be surprised how much clearance you need. A little soot or inletting black will tell you when you are free floated. Bet thats your troubles. Dale

If I grab my barrel and fore end and squeeze it touches with little effort about half way down barrel chanel

 

[gewehr]

Sound like the action is being bent slightly, I would re bed but using a stress free method like the one found on 6mmbr


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[shooter.dm]

Sound like the action is being bent slightly, I would re bed but using a stress free method like the one found on 6mmbr


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I would beleve its stress free now I did about the same as the 6mm br sight

 

[ugsly]

Ive never bedded a Howa, but being that the front screw goes into the recoil lug (like a weatherby MK V action). My thought would be if you taped the bottom of the recoil lug off and there is a small amout of clearence in there now. When torqued down your pulling at that point and inducing some stress because its not supported under it. Just a thought, someone else can chime in if Im wrong.

Casey

 

[Deadshot2]

A quick check to see if your bedding is stress free is to secure the rifle in something like a Tipton "vise". Mount a dial indicator so it contacts the top of of the barrel then loosen/tighten action screws while watching for movement of the dial.

Some errors I've seen when bedding stocks with aluminum action blocks are:

Action screws are contacting the side of he holes in the block either because the action is rotated (common with Rem 700 round actions) or bedding compound has oozed into the holes. If the latter then clean out using a drill the same size as the hole in the aluminum.

Internal magazine boxes or DBM metal is contacting the action. When the action screws are tightened the action is warped.


If the bedding was done with any torque on the action screws, not just holding the action in place with surgical tubing, again, stress could have been induced. This shows with the Dial Indicator check.



In bedding a Remington into a B&C stock I first tried it with no bedding forward of the recoil lug. Groups were terrible. I re-bedded with Devcon extending about 1-1/2" anead of the lug and the rifle is now a sub 1/4 MOA (personal best .128 MOA @ 300 yards) rifle. Some say NO, some say YES when it comes to the bedding ahead. I guess it all depends on what works for your rifle. I know that my barrel is quite heavy and just hanging off the end of the action, unsupported, has to induce stress into the action so I'm sticking with the extra bedding. Works for me.

 

[Captain Kirk]

Before I I did it it would shoot on average .3 to .4 .

Sounds like you threw the planets out of alignment. I would post a few pics of the bedding. You may be having torque issues with the receiver, or too much contact in the barrel channel. Lots of possibilities as to why is not shooting as good, all of which are fixable.

 

[jasonk]

Is there bedding in the action screw holes in the stock?

 

[4000fps]

65 inch lbs is pretty damn tight. My gunsmith suggests 35-40. Works for me. I usually do 40 on everthing with blue locktite.

 

[shooter.dm]

Is there bedding in the action screw holes in the stock?

No contact with action screws

 

[shooter.dm]

65 inch lbs is pretty damn tight. My gunsmith suggests 35-40. Works for me. I usually do 40 on everthing with blue locktite.

From what I get on here 65 is the standard for most

 

[Wesek]

If I grab my barrel and fore end and squeeze it touches with little effort about half way down barrel chanel

If you're shooting off of a bipod, this could be causing the issue. Try shooting the rifle off of sand bags up front with no load on the forearm and see if it helps. If so, relieve the barrel channel accordingly.

 

[Scimitar]

On a Howa, you do not tape the bottom or front of recoil lug, just the sides. Now when you tighten into the stock,
you are putting pressure on the action and the bedded pad on the barrel. You are now inducing stress when you
bolt it together. The Howa design uses the tapered front lug, not just for recoil but location of action. If you can,
cut out a shim of sheet metal and drill a hole through it to shit in front lug area. If you fit it right you should be able
to bolt gun back together and test fire. That will show you action needs to be rebedded.

 

[shooter.dm]

On a Howa, you do not tape the bottom or front of recoil lug, just the sides. Now when you tighten into the stock,
you are putting pressure on the action and the bedded pad on the barrel. You are now inducing stress when you
bolt it together. The Howa design uses the tapered front lug, not just for recoil but location of action. If you can,
cut out a shim of sheet metal and drill a hole through it to shit in front lug area. If you fit it right you should be able
to bolt gun back together and test fire. That will show you action needs to be rebedded.

That makes sence im gona try it

 

[Deadshot2]

65 inch lbs is pretty damn tight. My gunsmith suggests 35-40. Works for me. I usually do 40 on everthing with blue locktite.

If a rifle shoots better with lower torque on the action screws than the recommended 60-65 in lbs that usually means that the bedding job is NOT stress free.

A proper bedding job won't allow the action to move, regardless of torque.

 

[4000fps]

What do you think cranking those screws to 65 accomplishes that 40 doesn't?

 

[shooter.dm]

What do you think cranking those screws to 65 accomplishes that 40 doesn't?

I dont know the majority of people on here say its the most common and before i bedded my rifle thats when it shot the best when it was at 65 and a I started at 40 and went to 70

 

[Deadshot2]

What do you think cranking those screws to 65 accomplishes that 40 doesn't?

More fastener tension and less tendency for a round bottomed action like a Remington to try and "rotate" in the bedding. The higher torque and resulting tension also provides better for any heat expansion that might occur in the fastener.

Besides, it's the "design torque". I know that all my rifles that I've bedded shoot fantastic with torque of 60-65 in lbs. If less works for others, I guess that's what they should use.

 

[Scimitar]

On a Howa, you do not tape the bottom or front of recoil lug, just the sides. Now when you tighten into the stock,
you are putting pressure on the action and the bedded pad on the barrel. You are now inducing stress when you
bolt it together. The Howa design uses the tapered front lug, not just for recoil but location of action. If you can,
cut out a shim of sheet metal and drill a hole through it to shit in front lug area. If you fit it right you should be able
to bolt gun back together and test fire. That will show you action needs to be rebedded.

i mean to sit in lug area, not shit. sorry.

I had the same thing happen when I moved a FN 308 to a stock that was beeded for another. The was a space under front lug. Didn't shoot for shit. Checked it this way and found it had to be re-bedded

 

[Scimitar]

Here's a picture of pillar bedded howa before trimming and cleanup. Front lug sit on pillar and bedding.

 

[19Scout77]

Hey Scimitar...what do YOU know about bedding? Dont you sell insurance???

 

[jasonk]

Hey Scimitar...what do YOU know about bedding? Dont you sell insurance???

Sue him for misrepresenting himself as a gunsmith...

 

[19Scout77]

Sue him for misrepresenting himself as a gunsmith...

Only problem with that...i would be the defense's best witness!

 

[shooter.dm]

Ok I bedded my front lug over again yesterday now I will see what happens

 

[jsthntn247]

Point your gun up toward the celing with the but stock on the floor. Place your hand at the end of the stock and on the barrel. Unscrew your front action screw and see if you can feel any movement of the barrel and stock away from each other at the end. If there is you need to rebed.

 

[Deadshot2]

If there is you need to rebed.

Or make sure the magazine box isn't binding when the action is torqued. Also make sure there is not interference at any other points on the stock.

Another good way to check a bedding job is to take some white enamel paint and thin it down with some light motor oil. The oil will keep the paint from drying. Apply a thin layer (just enough to color the action) to the action, lug, bottom of barrel, then insert in the action. With hand pressure seat the action in the bedding then remove. A perfectly bedded action will show a paint transfer along almost all of the mating surface. There should be NO paint transfer in the barrel channel. Uneven transfer will indicate that the action is being "warped" when the torque is applied to the action screws. Taking into consideration the thread pitch of most rifle action screws, 60 in/lbs of torque can apply around 1200 lbs of pressure on the bedding.

 

[W8-2112]

Ok I bedded my front lug over again yesterday now I will see what happens

Well, my opinion on this matter is simple... your inexperience has caused you to bed the action improperly creating any number of possible issues i.e. torqued action, barrel contact (during recoil), high spot in bedding, action screw contact, improper alighnment, ect... To remedy this situation you need to remove all glass bedding and pillar bed this action. However, your failure rate is high so you might have to send it to a gunsmith to accomplish this task.

For round bottom actions I use 55-60in lbs but this is torque spec is a matter of opinion thats just what I use. As long as you are consistent and it works for you then go with it.

Good luck

 

[shooter.dm]

Well, my opinion on this matter is simple... your inexperience has caused you to bed the action improperly creating any number of possible issues i.e. torqued action, barrel contact (during recoil), high spot in bedding, action screw contact, improper alighnment, ect... To remedy this situation you need to remove all glass bedding and pillar bed this action. However, your failure rate is high so you might have to send it to a gunsmith to accomplish this task.

For round bottom actions I use 55-60in lbs but this is torque spec is a matter of opinion thats just what I use. As long as you are consistent and it works for you then go with it.

Good luck[/QUOTES

First of all you must not listen in the first place why would I piller bed a aluminum bedding block. Second this is a howa action not a rem700 action. You have no idea what my experience is in fire arms and say I have I high failure rate you dont even know me. You also never gave forth any proper answer why my first bedding job did not work . I work on firearms every day and I have never had this problem till I tried to bed this howa witch I never have before I would bet you have not bedded every action in the world if any at all.

 

[shooter.dm]

Well, my opinion on this matter is simple... your inexperience has caused you to bed the action improperly creating any number of possible issues i.e. torqued action, barrel contact (during recoil), high spot in bedding, action screw contact, improper alighnment, ect... To remedy this situation you need to remove all glass bedding and pillar bed this action. However, your failure rate is high so you might have to send it to a gunsmith to accomplish this task.

For round bottom actions I use 55-60in lbs but this is torque spec is a matter of opinion thats just what I use. As long as you are consistent and it works for you then go with it.

Good luck[/QUOTES

First of all you must not listen in the first place why would I piller bed a aluminum bedding block. Second this is a howa action not a rem700 action. You have no idea what my experience is in fire arms and say I have I high failure rate you dont even know me. You also never gave forth any proper answer why my first bedding job did not work . I work on firearms every day and I have never had this problem till I tried to bed this howa witch I never have before I would bet you have not bedded every action in the world if any at all.

 

[shooter.dm]

Dont know how that happend two times but ok w8 2112 you are a fake your profile says you build and rebuild and fix firearms but going threw your post all you do is ask basic questions to every day things you should know you dont help anyone fix anything you just tell them to send it to a smith. Hell your asking other people how much it cost to build a rifle. Problem because you have no fucking idea what you are doing. Go talk to a group of people who dont know better you fucking fake.

 

[W8-2112]

Dont know how that happend two times but ok w8 2112 you are a fake your profile says you build and rebuild and fix firearms but going threw your post all you do is ask basic questions to every day things you should know you dont help anyone fix anything you just tell them to send it to a smith. Hell your asking other people how much it cost to build a rifle. Problem because you have no fucking idea what you are doing. Go talk to a group of people who dont know better you fucking fake.

*laugh*

If you read my original post I listed a few issues for you to inspect to correct this malfunction.

You ask why would I suggest you pillar bed an alluminum action? Why would you bed an alluminum action to begin with especially after you said it was getting sub MOA?
You have taken away the advantage of an alluminum bedding and you will not be able to restore the stock to its original configuration with out damaging the original bedding so I suggested a way to fix your issue.

You are right "shooter.dm" I don't know you but given your responses and this entire thread I assumed you were an unexperienced idiot who like many is in over his head but clearly since you work on firearms all the time and are vastly more educated then me I appologize for my assumtion. However, this must be one of those "takes one to know one" kind of situations. Seeing how you immediatly retaliated by attacking my experience and knowledge of firearms. If you would like I could give explanation to every question I have posted and why. For starters why would I ask how much a custom rifle build cost... Well I don't want to over charge my customers and I find that underbidding the big companies brings in more business. Lastly I have responded with helpful advice to other threads and provided postive feed back but explanation over a forum is limited and I don't want to be the reason for someone hurting themself, others, or destroying the firearm becasue they misunderstood the advice I was giving them. That is why in certain circumstances I suggest they bring their firearm to a gunsmith.

Ding Ding end of round one, lol.

 

[shooter.dm]

Well now first you came at me like im some kind of idiot. If you say you do this stuff you would not be asking every one elce what the prices are you would know being the master gunsmith that you are. You can come up with any excuse you wont to for asking basic questions for stuff you should know.I would love to see your extensive work and shop and your prise winning rifles or feed back from your customers who have awards from your master built rifles. You have shown no solid proof of what you do. The answer to my question you have given no solid answer to what went exactly wrong or what I did wrong other than saying I did it wrong and im in over my head and im to stupid to do it right. Now some one elce on here new exactly what I did wrong and gave the correct answer to my problem he knows from experience something you apperantley dont have. Thank you Seimitar by the way . I came here for help not some smart ass wona be to give me a no idea answer

 

[Deadshot2]

Pssst! Guys. Take it to PM.

 

[hdbiker1]

Shooter.dm, since you rebedded, did it fix your problem?

 

[Killswitch Engage]

What do you think cranking those screws to 65 accomplishes that 40 doesn't?

25 more in lb....duh

 

[shooter.dm]

Shooter.dm, since you rebedded, did it fix your problem?

yes I rebidded the front lug and all is well shoots the same no matter the poundage on the action screws

 

[W8-2112]

PM sent