You know what, after a couple sips of whiskey and quick re-read of this thread, and some self-reflection... It turned out to be really educational.
After a bunch more sips, I decided to put this monstrosity together.
This is the shit I felt I should weigh in on, because it's important, and because no one else did in a way I found satisfactory.
I don't even find my own way of doing it satisfactory, but there was just more shit to cover than I had time for.
@Maggot - Im starting to see a pattern here. Fat, ugly, stupid guys who probably got picked on in school become cops and use their new found power for payback. Andother grotesque pig; a disgrace to all genuine LE.
Maggot, I get where you're coming from, but you're fucking wrong from start to finish. I wish you'd invested a little more time in your response, and been a little less short-sighted on things. You're an old fuck, though, so I won't hold any of that against you. I know how testy people can get when their shit stops working.
That being said, some royal fucking assholes do make the ranks, and get fat afterward. I don't know how or why they're allowed to retain their positions.
@Slash 0311- For me, as an officer making contact, I would remove the weapons from the person while I'm investigating what's going on.
I don't like that. I understand why it is done, but I think it's a bitch move that strips the dignity from all involved. Why would you disarm someone if you didn't know you needed to haul his ass to jail? Again, I bring up the Deer Park officers. They very well could have disarmed that gentleman, but they did not, because that is fucking rude.
You may say, "My/his/other people's protection", and I get that, but damn, man. There are countless ways for shit to go tits up. At least when you're dealing with a dude that's armed that you're questioning, you KNOW where that shit is gonna come from and can be ready to fire from the hip if it comes to that.
If you feel inadequate in that circumstance, you ought to train harder.
For the next bit, I'll admit I don't know every damned thing, but here it is:
I don't think there should ever be a situation where you should have to go eyes-off on someone you pulled over or walked up to, or whatever. None of that grab the info and go back to the car to check shit out. That's fucking crazy.
Definitely none of that 'here, lemme take your guns and go run your license to see if you have warrants'. That's amateur hour.
@Slash0311 - These are The types of things officers deal with on a daily basis so that the general public can keep a routine and ignor what's really going on around them.
That's a massive problem. No one should ignore a damned thing, and everyone should understand that bad fucking things can happen at any time. I think that is one of the root causes that's fucking with our lives today. The cops did such a great job trying to convince the people that they've got shit under control that people started to actually believe them. It's a fucking lie, outright.
I shit you not, if the Russians did some sneaky shit around Houston and wound up with thousands of armed assholes inside of 99 they could fuck a spot up, and every god damn cop in the area would rush there, then they'd be free to fuck up everything else, and it'd just be dumb lazy shits like me to remind them that not everyone got the call to go to 8 and 225, and we're just sitting here wondering why the fuck 30 police cars were rushing down the road at 2x the speedlimit. I don't count on the constant Apaches overhead to give a fuck about anything other than the assets they're tasked with protecting, and you bet your ass I don't want them to be, either. Fuckin 30mm raining hell down on my AO? Fuck that shit! I'll take my chances with the commies.
The world is fucking dangerous and everyone ought to appreciate that. Some folks may still refuse to be responsible for their own well-being, but that's to be expected.
@W54/XM-388 - If the police were actual decent public servants who were wanting to make sure everything was fine, I don't think anyone would have been able to fault them if they simply rolled up and politely explained that some butt hurt snowflake took exception to their display of freedom, but since they did, the police have to do a quick check to make sure you are law abiding citizens & not out to cause trouble, ask to check their ID, or run their name & then verify they were not prohibited persons or wanted for anything & then be on their way.
Yeah, I mean, that's the way it usually happens. These Olmos Park guys are not the norm.
@W54/XM-388 - If you have a right to carry weapons, then there is no excuse for the police absent any other evidence or threats to be threatening you with murder & punishing you with public humiliation.
No there is not an excuse. Even though shit got weird in this thread, I don't think anyone disagrees with this point. Further, I think it's clear that no one thought the Olmos Park PD did the right thing.
@Slash0311 - Again, the way the officers did things are certainly not how I've done things without some obvious crime being commuted and I think they took the bait on this one.
I really wish everyone had paid more attention to this.
@CrazyHorse_mk14 - My interpretation of this laws scope is to prevent say a hunter from facing crimes for carrying his deer rig down the street to the hunting grounds.
While that's a modern use for it, the original intent had to do with a threat on folks that weren't gonna back down for shit. It's perfectly fine if some faggot lets some of your neighbors know that because they're XYZ he's gonna come and kill 'em later, and for that whole neighborhood to congregate in the streets in a big, solidified fuck you to whoever would oppose them. AFAIK, it's never been illegal in Texas history to open carry a long gun. Even the 30.07 doesn't mean shit when it comes to open carrying a long gun.
Stores can ask you to leave, but that's it. Hell, I'm pretty sure you can carry a long gun into a liquor store in Texas, too.
@LRI - Crap like this is how we get new, restrictive state laws passed. Watch.
I think maybe 'manner calculated to alarm' may be rehashed a bit, as I could see a chest rig being 'alarming' to people. Really, though... I doubt any of that with Abbot as Governor. That guy needs to be cloned 1000x now, and with enough left over to clone him forever thereafter.
@W54/XM-388 - What happens when you know you are not breaking the law and are acting in a lawful manner, but then the police show up & want to hassle you, humiliate you, arrest you for something that is perfectly legal, or when they have no evidence of any criminal activity or wrong doing. Either the Police are ignorant of the law or they purposely don't care.
Well, you get FUCKED is what happens.
This is Georgia, not Texas, but we have similar DRE type shit down here as well. I admit that this isn't PURELY 'no evidence', but jesus, man, chick rolled over the line a little. That's not the same as chick just coughed her guts out on some killer weed and got behind the wheel.
@Slash0311 - I'm not going to say that doesn't happen. As to the question of "what then" comply and let your attorney have a field day in court.
This is bullshit, though. The folks in the video above had their lives turned up-side-fucking-down for no goddamn reason other than an officer was CERTAIN they were smoking the dope (which they weren't). No recourse on the officers. Lot sof expense to the 'defendants'. Ultimately the main ass in the video resigned in lieu of being fired because he fucked up too many times, but come on, a whole year out of your life fighting some trumped up charges?? That is not the American way, not even a little bit. One of those people actually had a plea deal put in front of them, FOR DOING NOTHING wrong. What the fuck??!! Another, their charges only got dropped because the OFFICER COULDN'T REMEMBER HIS OWN DAMN STORY 5 months later.
@ArmyJerry - Cops need to read and understand the constitution and respect their fellow citizens then they might get some respect back.
Yes they do. Some do,, some don't. I don't know what to do about that, other than to encourage decent officers that give a shit about the BOR to have GOOD conversations with their peers and brass and make sure the slackers learn their place in the world is not to arrest the most people or otherwise game the system, and is instead to keep order in this place, and throw the right people in jail. What do you do in a situation where the brass is incessantly ramming policy that fucks over normal folks? I don't have that answer, either.
I would like for this conversation to go off in that direction.
@Slash0311 - In my example, I don't say "running" away from the robbery. Let just say that it was some random joe walking In the same area as the gun shop. Would an officer not be able to make contact with that person without harassing him?
Absolutely. I'd want you to do it, too. Of all the folks replying in this thread, you're probably one of the best to be out there doing that. I'm really glad you chimed in and tossed your handful of pennies and all of that.
@ArmyJerry - Avoid contact at at all costs, they are armed agents of the state, nothing good comes from any interaction with them.
Fucked up as it is, that is my position more and more each day. I've had a handful of run-ins with the law completely accidentally where I did not like the experience one bit. From shit like license plate lights being out and the officers wanting to detain me and search my shit, to filling up gas and having half the PD roll up on me thinking I stole shit from a Lowe's and wanting to detain me and search my shit. There are a lot of officers out there that don't seem to give a fuck at all about people, and that is reason enough for me to never want to have any dealings with them ever. Just takes one royal asshole to end up like the dude on his front porch getting executed, or the dude on the hotel floor getting executed, and you're gone forever.
This is not the way it should be, though, and it's something I want to do with my life, to rectify that. The way I see it, it's a feed-back loop of pussies wanting the police to do more for them and police wanting to do more for the pussies, when the police are already doing too much. The thing I didn't mention there was how the lawyers effect this whole situation. I don't know much about that, but it's clear there's an issue there when a bunch of like-minded officers on a PRS board are saying shit like, 'well what if I didn't', 'when it is ok to', etc. I think when it gets to that point, common sense is not in control, discretion is not in control, and fear is. Fear of lawsuits, fear of being fired, fear of whatever... That's not a good thing.
This is all not to say that I haven't had good experiences with officers, because I have. This is to say that my bad experiences with officers sucked so much that I don't really want to have any interaction with officers ever again, because they're a force that's capable of fucking up my life permanently and they can do so in the flimsiest of circumstances with little or no regard for me as a human being, and without any concern or remorse.
Of course, that'd never get in the way of me having a conversation with an officer whenever the fuck I felt like it, to discuss shit like this face to face. Risks be damned =)
@Veer_G/@mcameron - You keep on trying to toss me that same poor repressed minority herring, like I'm a penguin or something.
Man, you do that to yourself. You realize that, right? The threads you post where some Sikh was mistaken for a muslim or whatever? You toss yourself in with the herrings.
@mcameron - i dont give a fuck if some liberal cunt gets offended......they are always offended.
Fuck yes they are always offended. How can society figure out how to ignore liberals? If all the latest protests have shown anything, it is that their opinions mean absolutely nothing and can be discarded as are the wants and whims of a toddler.
@Dthomas3523 - If I am called for someone walking down the street with a rifle, I roll up on him, ask them how they are doing, and if I can see an ID, they tell me to fuck off, and nothing else appears out of the ordinary.....yep, I get back in my unit and observe them from a public location until I’m satisfied there’s no danger to anyone. It’s legal for them to open carry in public and it’s legal for me to keep an eye on them in public.
Awesome.
@Slash0311 - As to your point of the Muslim, yes. If someone called, I would go initiate contact there as well. If that person's actions continued after i told them to stop, yes again. Disorderly conduct would apply.
You realize it's rude and disrespectful as hell to interrupt a muslim while he's praying, right? Not saying you wouldn't wait patiently while the dude does his ups and downs on his knees like some girl getting it in the ass, but asking honestly.. Would you really interrupt a muslim praying because someone called 911 on him for praying?
@Dthomas3523 - You may be legally open carrying, but if your actions are found to be that you did so in a way to cause a public nuisance or disturbance, now you are doing something possibly illegal.
In TX, it's pretty damned clear about a disturbance charge. If you're carrying in a way calculated to alarm, that's a crime. Otherwise, it's not.
Furthermore, why the fuck didn't these guys get the roll up and draw down treatment when they were marching down 6th street in Austin with shotguns, AKs, SKS, AR15s, hi-points, etc at the ready while shouting "OINK OINK BANG BANG FUCK THE PIGS AND EVERYONEAT FUCKS WIT 'EM"?
As we can see, even if you are carrying in a way calculated to alarm like these assholes, you may still not be arrested.
@Dthomas3523 - So, if the SCOTUS rules on the interpretation of the Constitution and I am within that ruling, I am ABSOLUTELY upholding the Constitution that I swore and oath to.
Come on, man... Heller was 5/4 in favor. What if it had been 3/6 against? What if they'd ruled that day that the RKBA did not apply to individuals? That's clearly in the fucking face of the original intent. Are you saying you'd be fine given that the SCOTUS ruled it was constitutionally not protected that individuals had a right at all to keep and bear arms, and you'd enforce that shit with a clear concience if your state/whatever told you to?
@Dthomas3523 - What I have a bit of an issue was how they went about it. They put those cops in a very bad position. Had anything gone slightly wrong on their (Grisham) end, they would likely be dead. He took the protest to the police, and not to the municipal government like he should have.
The cops put themselves in a bad position. There are good ways and bad ways to do things. They picked a bad way. Grisham took the issue to everyone at once, not just the police. Because the police responded the way they did, we're where we're at now, with the ordnance being repealed and lawsuits being filed. What comes next is anybody's guess.
@CrazyHorse_mk14 - Cam, I think your just having a hard time accepting the situation in today’s America. Your views are entirely agreeable and ring of the true intentions of the founding fathers. Would even go as far to say that they represent the idealistic American way.
For sure, mcameron has a potty mouth and a shit temper. He coats his gold in all kinds of crap most folks won't take the time to separate out.
@mcameron - Calm the fuck down. Your opinon shouldn't be relegated to the dustin of bullshittery.
