Who Are These COVID-19 Vaccine Skeptics and What Do They Believe?
www.theepochtimes.com
more suppression of high level vaccine skeptics by the communist elite
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high level vaccine skeptics
- Thread starter mosin46
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www.theepochtimes.com
more suppression of high level vaccine skeptics by the communist elite
you only have to ask yourself why the fda and cdc lied about IVM and claimed it is a horse drug (or HCQ, claiming that it is deadly).
this NIH paper was published in the spring. could it be because both are funded by the companies that make the vaccines?
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
this NIH paper was published in the spring. could it be because both are funded by the companies that make the vaccines?
Review of the Emerging Evidence Demonstrating the Efficacy of Ivermectin in the Prophylaxis and Treatment of COVID-19 - PMC
After COVID-19 emerged on U.S shores, providers began reviewing the emerging basic science, translational, and clinical data to identify potentially effective treatment options. In addition, a multitude of both novel and repurposed therapeutic ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Conclusions:
Meta-analyses based on 18 randomized controlled treatment trials of ivermectin in COVID-19 have found large, statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance. Furthermore, results from numerous controlled prophylaxis trials report significantly reduced risks of contracting COVID-19 with the regular use of ivermectin. Finally, the many examples of ivermectin distribution campaigns leading to rapid population-wide decreases in morbidity and mortality indicate that an oral agent effective in all phases of COVID-19 has been identified.
You have to look at the individual studies not a meta-analysis of a bunch of studies that have faults. There has not been enough strong data to recommend for it, hence why it’s not widely used in this country
I believe there may be benefit of ivermectin Rx to humans not random formulations for animals, which was the point of caution.
Facts remain that approximately 95+ % of those hospitalized with Covid, and nearly all doing very poorly, are unvaccinated. I’m not discounting peoples concerns with the vaccinations just presenting facts. This is nationwide and certainly here locally in the VAMC and also private non-profit level 1 trauma, tertiary care center with 850+ beds.
I believe there may be benefit of ivermectin Rx to humans not random formulations for animals, which was the point of caution.
Facts remain that approximately 95+ % of those hospitalized with Covid, and nearly all doing very poorly, are unvaccinated. I’m not discounting peoples concerns with the vaccinations just presenting facts. This is nationwide and certainly here locally in the VAMC and also private non-profit level 1 trauma, tertiary care center with 850+ beds.
Your above numbers regarding hospitalizations are not even remotely true, unless you are cherry picking certain areas.
86% is unvaccinated but a good number of those are obs patients and mild disease. Look at 4L or more of oxygen and you’ll see I’m correct or close to it. It’s certainly accurate in our hospitals.
As far as hospitalizations, nearly all statistics show unvaccinated to be 10-20x more likely to end up in the hospital than vaccinated. I'd love to see these areas, in the US, where this is not the case. I specify the US because the mix of vaccines is different in every country, and I am assuming nobody here is flying to Argentina for their vaccine.
BS flag raised. Do you want to discount the witch hunt against alternative treatments? Can doctors choose the best treatments for their patients or are they threatened en masse with loosing their job or even license?
BS flag raised again. Despite the "horse paste" defamation campaign, there are established doses and administration regimes for humans. And decades of evidence that these are safe.
Were the hospitalized patients treated early? Every plumber, let alone physician, should have heard by now that the viremia from SARS-CoV-2 is not what can kill you but the subsequent immune (over)response. If you get admitted to the hospital with low O2 saturation, you are already fully in the second stage of the Covid disease, which could have been averted by treating earlier.
Take the vaccine if you want. But do not force it on other people. And do not discredit, censor, or oppress physicians who are trying and succeeding to find other treatment options.
You will realize the corruption of the system once the new Merck drug gets suddenly recommended as a preventative treatment at a price of 40x the cost.
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And for the record, all but one of the skeptics mentioned in the article take a relatively moderate view, saying that either it is a good idea for the elderly (Malone) that natural immunity is likely stronger (Bridle) or that there is no reason for mandates (Bhattacharya et al.) Each of these is a reasonable argument, though some have more holes than others. None of them, other than McCollough is even close to the level of craziness you see here in the Pit, and even he is only about 10% of the way to the group think here, that sees the thing as poison or some Nazi experiment craziness. IOW, these people are not debating the same things that are being said in here, that frankly are nuts.
hc admins were caught on camera conspiring to inflate the fear by listing patients admitted into the hospital as "active covid cases", even if they are there for heart bypass surgery or chronic liver failure and are not having covid symptoms, as long as they are tested with their busllshit pcr test at who knows how many cycles.
as long as these places are getting cash kickbacks for every covid case they report, it is all bullshit.
The reason I will NEVER get the government forced injection, is mostly because of how big gov and big media and big tech all tried to control and force a narrative, discredited established science, held water for china when it was obvious it came from there, and all the double talk, lies and corruption.
I got lots of shots, none of them, or their makers, had to play fuck fuck games or me to buy their product.
I got lots of shots, none of them, or their makers, had to play fuck fuck games or me to buy their product.
Also
Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. (Published 2020)
The usual diagnostic tests may simply be too sensitive and too slow to contain the spread of the virus.
they have been caught lying too many times...fool me once....
how many times has pfizer pleaded guilty for lying about their drugs, and had to pay fines?
as long as the CDC and FDA are funded by the people that sell the vaccines, i have no reason to trust them.
Or WHO being owned by the people who made the virus and spread it
people might not be the right word, commies and fascists ain’t quite human
These charts show that COVID-19 vaccines are doing their job
COVID-19 shots may not always prevent infections, but for now, they are keeping the vast majority of vaccinated people out of the hospital.
www.sciencenews.org
CDC study shows unvaccinated people are 29 times more likely to be hospitalized with Covid
The new CDC study also found that unvaccinated people were nearly five times more likely to be infected with Covid than vaccinated people.
The retort, of course, is "everything is a lie, EVERYTHING." But every single data set says the same thing.
most vaccine deaths (so far) happen within 2 weeks of the 2nd shot.
cdc: they are not considered vaccinated until 15 days since the 2nd shot, so those are not vaccinated deaths.
cdc: they are not considered vaccinated until 15 days since the 2nd shot, so those are not vaccinated deaths.
Well I’ve been running a Covid hit for almost two years and participate weekly or more frequently in conferences with ID experts as well as CCM/pulmonologists as well as others so I know the truth. It’s spreading ignorance and falsehoods that lead to this in part.
Vax or no vax is just another one of these false dichotomies, designed to divide us.These charts show that COVID-19 vaccines are doing their job
COVID-19 shots may not always prevent infections, but for now, they are keeping the vast majority of vaccinated people out of the hospital.
CDC study shows unvaccinated people are 29 times more likely to be hospitalized with Covid
The new CDC study also found that unvaccinated people were nearly five times more likely to be infected with Covid than vaccinated people.www.cnbc.com
The retort, of course, is "everything is a lie, EVERYTHING." But every single data set says the same thing
How about:
- vaccination and crossing your fingers
- no vax but early treatment to prevent hospitalization
- vaccination and early treatment to prevent hospitalization
- just crossing you fingers with a 0.04% chance of that not working out
don't take ivermectin without waiting 5 years for RCT results...because it might not work....
but take this experimental mRNA shit that your brother got 2 days before having a stroke, even though there are no long term studies.
if they don't work even though we already made $27 billion selling them, we'll give you another shot that won't work....and charge you some more.
but take this experimental mRNA shit that your brother got 2 days before having a stroke, even though there are no long term studies.
if they don't work even though we already made $27 billion selling them, we'll give you another shot that won't work....and charge you some more.
Rogan is great, he’s not really for the left, or the right, and he calls it the way he sees it. One of the people I’d love to grab a drink with and discuss life.
Curious to know how much of the vaccine reluctance is primarily aimed at the mRNA vaccines and not the Jansen/J&J vaccine which is more traditional and not using mRNA.
I think, regardless of which side somebody is on, that once it became politicized (under Trump for the left to pick on Trump, and now the Left/Marxists in their anti-liberty beliefs forced vaccines), that the vaccinations for all things will now come into question. This "vaccine" has set the world back 50-70 years in the belief/trust of vaccinations; and THAT is the most dangerous thing, medically, I can think of as an outflow of this. Though the most dangerous and ultimately most lethal in the long-term is our loss of LIBERTY!!!
I think, regardless of which side somebody is on, that once it became politicized (under Trump for the left to pick on Trump, and now the Left/Marxists in their anti-liberty beliefs forced vaccines), that the vaccinations for all things will now come into question. This "vaccine" has set the world back 50-70 years in the belief/trust of vaccinations; and THAT is the most dangerous thing, medically, I can think of as an outflow of this. Though the most dangerous and ultimately most lethal in the long-term is our loss of LIBERTY!!!
I think this is basically correct. The ill considered pause of the JnJ vaccine for no good reason at all didn't help either.
It is also worth understanding that there is a difference between the arguments made in this article against mandates or for more limited population use of vaccines, and the, frankly, brain addled conspiracy shit that most people in the Pit seem to believe about the vaccines. It kills me to see people throwing their futures away over an echo chamber induced insanity, even as much as I dislike and reject the vaccine mandates etc.
I find it hard to say one way or the other should someone else get it I honestly think it's a decision between a person and there doctors not that my 2 cents could add anything important I am not a doctor . I got mine only after talking to my doctor she laid out the case for getting it and I got em am I going to get the boosters not this week , will I get it in a year maybe . Will I change my mind to make a tyrannical dick tater happy oh hell no if he cried over it it would only fan the flame to wait longer . I don't buy masks and wont I will wear them if a store is requiring them but only if they supply them .
Put on your yellow star, peasants.
i think some people might not like jj because they knew there was asbestos in their baby powder, and now they can't even make sunblock without carcinogens. while those things have perhaps nothing to do with their vaccine, i understand some people might have trust issues.
Here's the problem that I have with this document. I'm not trying to convince or persuade anyone's beliefs, but let me start with the reference language from this WA state reportThese charts show that COVID-19 vaccines are doing their job
COVID-19 shots may not always prevent infections, but for now, they are keeping the vast majority of vaccinated people out of the hospital.
CDC study shows unvaccinated people are 29 times more likely to be hospitalized with Covid
The new CDC study also found that unvaccinated people were nearly five times more likely to be infected with Covid than vaccinated people.
The retort, of course, is "everything is a lie, EVERYTHING." But every single data set says the same thing.
(From Definitions)
A COVID-19 hospitalization is a Washington resident who has been identified using case investigation data in WDRS or links with Rapid Health Information Network (RHINO) records as hospitalized with confirmed or probable COVID-19.
Deaths are reported to the state by health care providers, medical examiners or coroners, local health departments, or others to the official vital records database, WHALES. COVID-19 deaths included in this report are identified in WHALES where the cause of death was confirmed or suspected to have been COVID-19.
Knowing that health care providers have been financially incentivized to associate C19 with patients & death certificates, how can I lean towards trusting that "probable" and "suspected" are accurate diagnoses?
Second issue that I have with reports like this - why don't they show the overlay of the rate of vaccinations? It puts things into perspective.
I won't dive into the case studies of Sweeden & India, but as someone who has known people who were severely injured from these drugs and have had a close family friend pass away within 2 days of receiving their first inoculation, I'm compelled by several points that have been established around the strategies for ending the pandemic and the overall risk vs. reward for opting in.
On that latter note, there was a lot of dishonesty and deception around the risk reduction aspects of these drugs. Using the CDC & VAERS data and the absolute risk reduction (ARR) against the first 1/2 of 2021, there's some conclusions to be made.
There were 134MM people inoculated. Pfizer stated their drug's number needed to vaccinate (NNV) to prevent once case of C19 is 117 (inoculate 117 people to prevent 1 "case" of this virus).
The virus median survival rate at the time was claimed to be 99.86% across all age groups, sexes / pronouns. There were 10,355 vaccine related deaths in VAERS for this time period (of course there have been people from the CDC/FDA who came out and said this number was likely much higher). So the vaccine death rate was 1:12940.
With those figures, the NNV to save 1 life is 117,000, but inoculating 117,000 people translates to 9.04 deaths (a 904% chance of the drugs causing death, rather than it saving the life). It doesn't make sense to me whatsoever.
And then of course, there are the geo-political issues surrounding everything that everyone unpacks in their own ways.
Assuming, arguendo, that all of this is true, none of it changes the relative outcomes for vaccinated and unvaccinated people who contract covid. In other words, if everything you say here is true, the outcomes for vaccinated people are far superior despite your complaints with methodology and your suggestions of alternative options for dealing with a pandemic.
I don't think that I have, at any time, said people should be forced to be vaccinated or even coerced in any way. What I have said is that the vaccines have been effective w/r/t to severe illness, though not as effective as people hoped with regard to pure transmission, and that they are very safe. VAERS isn't really data, as it is self reporting, so yes, that number could be higher, but it could also be much lower. The point is that taking that number at face value, the number of deaths is very low.
It should be obvious by now that the people who need the vaccine have a very time-limited future anyway. It's call co-MORBIDITY for a reason.
What future is the rest of us supposedly throwing away by resisting this mandate tyranny? A future where you get hit over the head with a dose of "serve and protect" if you do not comply with the next arbitrary mandate. When your car runs out of carbon credits or your social score gets too low because you did not shout "Heil Biden" loud enough.
Even if YOU got the vax because of your personal benefit/risk analysis, you should burn your fucking vax card, risk your job, and stand up against the mandates like everyone else. Or you can be the good German who just follows orders and "does his job" and see where this leads you.
2021:
First they came for the "J6 insurrectionists"...
Then they came for those who wanted to make their own medical decisions...
Then they came for the parents who had the gall to demand a say in the tax-funded education of their children...
...
Which applies to 95% on BOTH sides of the argument.
1st sentience is a bunch of huey.
Similar huey out there from the "experts" to supress other early treatment tools like budesonide .
We have doctors that attest that budesonide works to suppress covid invading via ACE2 receptors. That along with an antibiotic to suppress secondary pneumonia they say is keeping 90% of their very sick patients out of the hospital.
They aren't lying. And they arent sending their sick patients home to fend for themselves til they are 80% dead.
I think you may be misunderstanding the concept of comorbidities. For example, if 75% of covid deaths are in overweight people, and 75% of the American public is overweight, a comorbidity, there really isn't any strong causal evidence. For sure people in worse health are more vulnerable than other, but that goes for all disease, but it is a big mistake to understand the comorbidity issue as all these people were about to die anyway. In other words, they don't call it a co-MORBIDITY for the reasons you are suggesting.
As for the vax card, I think I was the first on here who made the suggestion of burning them. There is no way in hell I would go anywhere that required a vaccine passport, or frequent a business that required one. That isn't how I roll. That's not much of a sacrifice for me, given my station in life, but it is the way I feel. I do not feel, however, like I would prefer not to be vaxxed so that I can have worse health outcomes just because a bunch of people feel discriminated against.
The Office of Management and Budget has put in a provision in ALL federal contracts to private companies which produce a good or service for the US Government. If a contract is awarded, EVEN the Office workers, who are not "on site" are required to get the Jab. All Federal contracts will contain that language.
Now for the odd part....
Everyone in the science community recognize that naturally occurring immunity from having the disease and recovering is SUPERIOR to any current vaccine... but, they require those who have natural immunity to get the jab too. They will not accept medical antibody assays and reports of immunity in lieu of the vaccine.
How odd.
It is almost like they have a "second reason" for everyone to take the shot.
Now for the odd part....
Everyone in the science community recognize that naturally occurring immunity from having the disease and recovering is SUPERIOR to any current vaccine... but, they require those who have natural immunity to get the jab too. They will not accept medical antibody assays and reports of immunity in lieu of the vaccine.
How odd.
It is almost like they have a "second reason" for everyone to take the shot.
Fun fact, there is no such thing as history. Everything is new, nothing ever repeats because it's [current year].
Ever notice how 9 out of 10 of these threads are started by people that have signed up since this shit show began 
Watch the vid.
The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015
The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015 was divided, one half jointly to William C. Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura "for their discoveries concerning a novel therapy against infections caused by roundworm parasites" and the other half to Tu Youyou "for her discoveries concerning a novel...
www.nobelprize.org
R
Well I’m a doctor and have been treating this for almost two years running a Covid unit. I use Bumex and antibiotics in certain cases. Those patients didn’t miraculously get weaned off oxygen and jump out of bed. You’re arguing shit don’t know about. Keep reading all you want meaning I’ll keep doing what I can to save lives and keep people off vents because that’s the goal.
After consulting several medical dictionaries. I gladly concur with you that the current definition of co-morbidities is any existing disease that can worsen the outcome of a new disease. That goes beyond the traditional killers like cancer, COPD, CHF, etc. and makes sense from a perspective of risk assessment in an acute setting. Thanks you for broadening my horizon.
As far as expected lifetime and remaining quality of life is concerned, I agree with Dr. Malone, that we should use the vaccines globally to protect our elders. We stand culturally on their shoulders and that is even more relevant in less industrialized countries where these elders are instrumental in local governance.
Dr. Malone recommended in a recent interview the following four-pronged approach:
- Offer vaccines globally to older people, especially those with additional risk factors
- Provide (and authorize) early treatment kits
- Offer at-home test that are biased for positives, followed up with a more specific test to determine when early treatment is advised
- Create mobile apps for individual risk assessment to counter the "fear porn"
Concerning the mandates it is important to note that not only "a bunch of people feel discriminated against" but every single person has lost a portion of their liberties. That makes it so disturbing when people who took the vax then shame and persecute those who made a different choice. They do not realize that their compliance will lead to more infringements for ALL. I quoted Dietrich Bonhoeffers poem in reply to one of your other posts, so you know the case I am making.
BTW: Adolf would be jealous if he could see what's going on today. Instead of a religious minority, a substantial portion of the US workers is currently threatened with loosing their livelihoods. Being checked whether the cup you are holding has coffee in it so you are 'authorized' to take your mask off for drinking is the reality today in Australia. And the people who orchestrate this takeover of the free world didn't even have to invade other countries to get everyone under their boot.
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Yep and you're not treating them before they hit the covid unit because of the protocol from down on high right?
If so, then yer not much better than a bot with a license.
You are treating patients that are too far down the path when you finally have a chance to treat them. You would be more helpful with other methods earlier on. Sending patients home until they are close to suffocating (low O2 sat) is malpractice at this point and you know it. There was an excuse for this early on but now the world knows better. Unfortunately, the financial incentives for late, intensive treatment are still in place and you know that too.
ETA: Just saw that someone beat me to the point by a second. Maybe this needs to be said twice.
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First you don’t have any idea what I’m seeing which shows your ignorance to even make a statement like that. Second, I’ll fill you in. You’re incorrect. I’m not here to change your mind. I hope no one on here gets I’ll from Covid. I’m just telling the facts of my experience.
Same goes for Infinity.
