MDT cares about people. Hornady execs drive 100 mph over the speed limit in small towns.
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Higher quality trimmers worth it?
- Thread starter VandelayIndustries
- Start date
Agree 100%. Bought my Giraud have to be in 2016 or so and makes trimming so easy. Just did about 1500 6 Creed cases a couple months back and was well worth it!
I don't want to start an argument, but the motors on modern cordless drills are about as robust as it gets and the Henderson one isn't even in the same echelon as far as performance is concerned. Maybe related or not, having owned and ridden both, a GXR600R may rev higher as compared to a GSXR1000R, but there's no doubt which one makes more real power and will have you shiting your pants faster lol.
A lot of this has to do with one's usage scenario: if you're into trimming every firing, yeah, pony up for a Henderson/Giraud, no doubt. But if you're just a guy looking to trim and normalize all your cases now and then... IMHO fuck it, the drill-mount WFT or FA options will do it, maybe use the cash on a new/next barrel.
If you really concentrate on speed, I'd say 3 seconds is doable. Once you get practiced, I'd say a more relaxed paced is 4ish seconds.
I bought a Henderson trimmer a few days ago before the announcement. Glad I did, don’t care if the knock off is cheaper that was a shitty move by hornady. I’m going to avoid their products moving forward.
Not sure my rate of speed but once I got experienced with it I could get cases trimmed in what seemed lightning speed compared to any other way I've trimmed before. I'd say 5 seconds or so is fairly nice pace.
In the grand scheme of things, it's pretty negligible for those who actually need a Henderson/Giraud. Midway has the Hornady listed @ $775, on sale @ $620. Precision has them @ $570. You'd only be saving $0-200 and I'm willing to bet there will be a noticeable gap in quality.
Henderson needs to incorporate Hornady's adjustment features though
I do about 10-12 a minute at a comfortable pace and it’s still a lot faster than the old trimmers and no need to chamfer or deburr. It’s not really a drag race but any of the good trimmers are head and shoulders ahead of the old trimmers.
lol what?
this inconsistent rim dependent 700$ priming tool, in which you must picking primers in tube like monkey?
Or you could use a primer tube filler...
It's not needed. Once a case depth stop is set you never have to touch it. One screw for each case with the nut for quick case changes.
And if Henderson did wouldn't they be copying Hornady? LOL Sorry too soon?
In a similar discussion at Accurate Shooter and they were trying to imply the Hornady was made in China, which it's not. So I figured I would drop Hornady ask a couple days ago. I received a response from Hornady customer service today on my question about if they copied the Henderson:
Our trimmer is simply our trimmer. It’s not a “copy” of anything. It’s the most advanced 3-in-1 trimmer on the market. Did we look at a lot of other trimmers - of course. We should assume Henderson reviewed other designs before making theirs. Chevrolet makes cars with 4 wheels. So does Ford and Dodge. Are the vehicles the same? Theirs is red - Ours is red - Hornady has been red since 1949. Aside from that, we have numerous unique features on our trimmer (motor is faster, not a belt drive / click adjust for fine tuning etc. etc.) Designed and assembled in the USA at Hornady.
In a similar discussion at Accurate Shooter and they were trying to imply the Hornady was made in China, which it's not. So I figured I would drop Hornady ask a couple days ago. I received a response from Hornady customer service today on my question about if they copied the Henderson:
Our trimmer is simply our trimmer. It’s not a “copy” of anything. It’s the most advanced 3-in-1 trimmer on the market. Did we look at a lot of other trimmers - of course. We should assume Henderson reviewed other designs before making theirs. Chevrolet makes cars with 4 wheels. So does Ford and Dodge. Are the vehicles the same? Theirs is red - Ours is red - Hornady has been red since 1949. Aside from that, we have numerous unique features on our trimmer (motor is faster, not a belt drive / click adjust for fine tuning etc. etc.) Designed and assembled in the USA at Hornady.
Not the same as not made in China. It’s good to call out corporate doublespeak.
Electronics are nearly always offshore sourced, we don’t have the infrastructure and industry to do large scale electronic manufacturing like the Chinese but I’m not talking about the motor in the thing lol.
Who said the parts they used were made in China? Lots of places other than China to get parts made. And it's not the whole thing being made else where. Hornady has a large manufacturing footprint.
Chevy makes cars with wheels but all chevys don't look like a vette.. and all cars have wheels but they don't all look identical.
From what I understand (not my department but I sit 20ft away) it's the motor. Same reason Leupold has to say "assembled in USA" because their glass comes from out of the states. We have a couple of fully functional machine shops and most things that aren't molded plastic or electronic are made in-house.
What do engineers at hornady do other than steal others designs?
You know like the new bullets that are strait up Berger Hybrid and SMK clones.
Now they are stealing hendersons designs.
There are SOO many areas of improvement out there in the shooting/reloading world to focus on instead of just ripping off other American Small business designs.
Its pretty pathetic a company that large with what we would assume is a massive R&D department...just copies other peoples shit.
Is the R&D department a bunch of dudes named Chang, Jing and Xiu?
Look, dude... If it was a big red Neville on the side of the building there would probably be different courses of action-- probably the same if it was your name, but that's not this universe. Steve and Jason call the shots. The guys that do the electronic parts (scales, safes, etc..) are just about tired of me asking why they're still made in China. Reality is the economy/rules/structures in place make it 3-10x cheaper and most Americans don't take a 2nd thought about where it comes from, only what it costs. It's a national crisis as far as I'm concerned but I don't run the show. Danger bears nothing upon the ignorant until it's too late. If you have IP that's worth patenting, patent it. When the patent expires or there is no patent, the same things happen in every industry. Money doesn't really drive me beyond paying for a place to sleep and doing some shit I enjoy but I've seen enough to know that it drives enough people that loose IP will be exploited. The only place I've seen that you can bank on people having your back is in active duty combat arms. Outside of that you're on your own and the best assumption is that everyone is going to take advantage where they can, often even if there's laws against it.
If you have beef, write Steve and Jason a letter. I'm on this site because I enjoy sharing information that I'm able to, to help people where I can.
That dude is simping for private equity without the self-awareness to understand the irony. He thinks Hornady is the devil while extoling the entity responsible for the death of Bushnell and RCBS. It's pretty funny that Hornady fixed the two areas of the Henderson trimmer that I always though were hack bullshit. Meanwhile, according to Ricky Bobby, Hornady needs to be more foreign or private equity owned. He said it with a straight face too.
Gonna pass that word to the Accurate Shooter crew?
I wish Hornady would clone the RCBS benchtop primer just so I could read the crying threads on Accurate Shooter.
Henderson has had plenty of time/opportunity to make subtle changes that would make life better while using their product and the elected not to. So now someone stepped up and did it.
I’m not a Hornady fan per se’ but they do at least listen to the market and attempt to provide what the market is asking for.
I’m not a Hornady fan per se’ but they do at least listen to the market and attempt to provide what the market is asking for.
All the measuring tools I have seen are made in china, including the dial calipers
Is henderson precision owned by private equity? Chicom owned? I doubt the owner even nets enough profit per year to live on without other income.
The problem is theft of design. A big company with attorneys on retainer who can afford to push around the small guy who can't even afford to defend a patent if it existed. Same thing happened with RCBS going after supertrickler.
It's a small community. Instead of maybe licensing or working with the inventor, they just rip off the design, find a way to manufacture it for pennies on the dollar..mostly by offshoring parts that are substandard ( hoarnady products are pretty much inferior in design and build quality to any competitor) and push the small guy out.
Hornady engineers must be Chinese becuase they couldn't come up with an original design if their life depended on it.
The micrometer does nothing and if you had a Henderson or used a trimmer you would realize how dumb of an idea it is. Once you set your depth for a cartridge, you never touch it again. You have a different bolt for each case already preset. Micrometer does nothing more than maybe save 10 second during setup but much more likely to drift or get knocked out of the correct setting. If I am trimming 800 cases don't need to be checking oal every so many cases to make sure it hasn't moved.
I'm trying to think of any product that hornady makes that is a market leader...that someone else doesn't make a better version of. Their measuring tools are all chicom rebranded shit sold 5x more than they should. Their comparitors suck. Their bullets blow up and have shitty variance. Their dies and reloading tools are cheaply made and poorly honed.
Only a idiot or someone with zero morals would buy this shit. They are ripping off small american owned businesses with chicom and poor mass produced shit.
Congrats you posted something even dumber than your previous post. I am honestly impressed.
No one is talking about private equity ( which you could argue is much worse than imported chicom shit, but i digress).
Is henderson precision owned by private equity? Chicom owned? I doubt the owner even nets enough profit per year to live on without other income.
The problem is theft of design. A big company with attorneys on retainer who can afford to push around the small guy who can't even afford to defend a patent if it existed. Same thing happened with RCBS going after supertrickler.
It's a small community. Instead of maybe licensing or working with the inventor, they just rip off the design, find a way to manufacture it for pennies on the dollar..mostly by offshoring parts that are substandard ( hoarnady products are pretty much inferior in design and build quality to any competitor) and push the small guy out.
Hornady engineers must be Chinese becuase they couldn't come up with an original design if their life depended on it.
The micrometer does nothing and if you had a Henderson or used a trimmer you would realize how dumb of an idea it is. Once you set your depth for a cartridge, you never touch it again. You have a different bolt for each case already preset. Micrometer does nothing more than maybe save 10 second during setup but much more likely to drift or get knocked out of the correct setting. If I am trimming 800 cases don't need to be checking oal every so many cases to make sure it hasn't moved.
I'm trying to think of any product that hornady makes that is a market leader...that someone else doesn't make a better version of. Their measuring tools are all chicom rebranded shit sold 5x more than they should. Their comparitors suck. Their bullets blow up and have shitty variance. Their dies and reloading tools are cheaply made and poorly honed.
Only a idiot or someone with zero morals would buy this shit. They are ripping off small american owned businesses with chicom and poor mass produced shit.
Congrats you posted something even dumber than your previous post. I am honestly impressed.
What upgrades are needed on the Henderson? Other than maybe a better chip bin.. there is nothing faster or easier to use on the market.
That's alot of words to say yea we steal others designs ...it's legal ..too bad so sad.
Ip protection is incredibly expensive and would cost Henderson and other small companies more than it's worth to pursue. They didn't invent viagra or velcro. Big companies can absorb the cost into margins like most regulatory costs.
It's no different than a big kid bullying a smaller kid and stealing their lunch money.
Your response is:
"Kid should learn to fight or something"
Instead of just admitting it's wrong and not morally justifiable.
Well which is it, it does nothing or it saves ten seconds? It sounds like your solution to the junky hardware store screws is more junky hardware store screws.
It's hard to believe another company could come along and kick Henderson down the stairs with so much innovation going on in their $700+ trimmer. [SARCASM]
Your virtue is noted, thanks.
I note that those who bash a company for aggressive product placement and marketing are often the same ones who preach for unfettered capitalism.
Of course, consistency is often not a hallmark of humans.
Of course, consistency is often not a hallmark of humans.
I don't see the problem. It's a free market. If they can take a design and make it cheaper I don't see the problem. Who made the first dies? The first press? First TV? Car? That's what keeps innovation going.
Everybody has copied the Giraud idea of indexing off the shoulder. Do you complain about that? The Giraud still stands on its own because it's awesome. If the Henderson is better it will stand on its own but you can't hold progress back because someone already makes something similar.
I'm also all about making reloading easier and cheaper.
Everybody has copied the Giraud idea of indexing off the shoulder. Do you complain about that? The Giraud still stands on its own because it's awesome. If the Henderson is better it will stand on its own but you can't hold progress back because someone already makes something similar.
I'm also all about making reloading easier and cheaper.
Not about the trimmer but uh... ETA on the Hornady version of the Ingenuity Precision powder measure/trickler system or Hornady AMP annealer?
But the statement it's a free market and if someone can make it cheaper it's all good covers a lot of bases.
Just clarifying with all the talk/crying here and elsewhere about the new trimmer.
5 years? When I was a kid it was 17 years, I think it's up to 20 now. But it doesn't look like Henderson ever had a patent.
Here is my current setup for my trimmer. Running a Henderson gen II with the forster cutters which I perfer.
As I said earlier, it was 17 years when I was a kid. We were taught that in school. I didn’t realize it had changed to 20 until recently. So you made me look up when it changed from 17 to 20. The answer is 6/8/95.
Not really, not for precision rifle. The whole setup is kind of counter to what most people are trying to do.
Have one set for 223/556 bulk ammo. Set it once and forget it. But not worth the hassle to do caliber swaps. I also have 308/762 die that have been used once maybe. Loud as fuck with or without the shop vac attached.
I use it for .556, .243, .308, 7 REM Mag, 30-06. It sizes and trims perfectly. I save up the brass and do 300-2000 at a time.
Once the die is set it does not have to be changed. Generally I do several calibers at a session.
Once the die is set it does not have to be changed. Generally I do several calibers at a session.
