Re: Highest BC bullet available?
I have gotta stop reading this stuff. It is enough to drive you stupid.
I have gotta stop reading this stuff. It is enough to drive you stupid.
Highest BC bullet available?
- Thread starter One_Man
- Start date
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Knew you would show up Noel...unlike SHOT. Just couldn't resist being beaten, again, could you? How are you doin'?
Knew you would show up Noel...unlike SHOT. Just couldn't resist being beaten, again, could you? How are you doin'?
A
Augustus
Guest
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Hypertex, the 338 300 scenar will have in the neighborhood of 5 mils or so of drop at 1000 yds when launched at 3300 fps and zeroed at 100 yds. If the 295 GS bullet shows 5 mils less drop at 1000 yds than the Scenar, you are reporting that the 295 does not drop at all at 1000 yds. Wow, they really are magic!!!!! You really should come back and say what your post meant to convey was that the Scenar had 5 mils of drop and the GS had 4 mils of drop. Even if you attempted to clean the mess up with this bit of info there would still be a huge problem. For the GS to get to 1000 with 4 mils of drop at 3300 fps the BC would have to be around 2.0
Hypertex, the 338 300 scenar will have in the neighborhood of 5 mils or so of drop at 1000 yds when launched at 3300 fps and zeroed at 100 yds. If the 295 GS bullet shows 5 mils less drop at 1000 yds than the Scenar, you are reporting that the 295 does not drop at all at 1000 yds. Wow, they really are magic!!!!! You really should come back and say what your post meant to convey was that the Scenar had 5 mils of drop and the GS had 4 mils of drop. Even if you attempted to clean the mess up with this bit of info there would still be a huge problem. For the GS to get to 1000 with 4 mils of drop at 3300 fps the BC would have to be around 2.0
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
I know it sounds fantastic but that's what I saw. I cannot dismiss that my TPAL is completely bottomed out with a 30MOA base; that's the reason for the 1000yd zero. When I get my 40MOA base, I'll try again. I have nothing to add or subtract
I know it sounds fantastic but that's what I saw. I cannot dismiss that my TPAL is completely bottomed out with a 30MOA base; that's the reason for the 1000yd zero. When I get my 40MOA base, I'll try again. I have nothing to add or subtract
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Anthony, Anthony, Anthony,
Leave it to you to declare victory in a race which your putative opponent is unaware of. If you are alluding to projectile design, I have yet to see any third party validation that you have set your feet in the starting blocks... and some positive evidence that you have not even tied your shoes.
Is this latest anecdotal account the best you have to demonstrate a viable 6.5+ caliber 338 from GSC?
I'm "doin" fine, thanks.
Anthony, Anthony, Anthony,
Leave it to you to declare victory in a race which your putative opponent is unaware of. If you are alluding to projectile design, I have yet to see any third party validation that you have set your feet in the starting blocks... and some positive evidence that you have not even tied your shoes.
Is this latest anecdotal account the best you have to demonstrate a viable 6.5+ caliber 338 from GSC?
I'm "doin" fine, thanks.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Noel, this is your race; a race you started long ago when you began to discredit and insult GS at every chance you could get (some forced). We didn't start this, but we had to step up to the plate. You have tried everything I can think of to hurt me and this company, and for no other reason then personal gain. You have degraded GS, and myself in more ways then I care to even mention here, to include calling up our customers and disrespecting us, telling lies and trying to gain information on us.
Yes, I know you have been asking around about us, and yes, we are not up and running here in MI yet, but we will be soon. No, this isn't my race Noel, rather it's between you and GS Custom Bullets, but you have brought me into it in ways I simply could not avoid. Ways I have had to address at great personal costs to save face. Now why? Why would you do this for any other reason but personal gain?
Putative you are not, nuisance you are. You still need to spout off at every chance you get....here, on the forums, where you are safe from actually having to put actions where your mouth is. And what "positive evidence" do you have that my "shoes are not even tied"? What does that even mean? You will say anything to bring us down to your level, and for what?
As for projectile design, you really are something else, and I don't mean that in a good way at all. You have been steady leaching off us for information since 2007, copied our bullets, or even shot OUR bullet at your own testing! Shit Noel, I even know the shooter!
You have ignored all the customer who have verified our bullets, like Dave Viers, Jon (14.5mm), Keith (Editor of FCSA VHP) and even the posts herein. So why on earth do you say the things you say?
A viable 6.5+ caliber projectile? Come on Noel, again, really? The 295 is over 6.7, the 414 375 is as well, so are many others, but who cares? Once again you make it about something that does not matter. It's not the calibers of length, it's the performance, and we deliver.
Noel, this is your race; a race you started long ago when you began to discredit and insult GS at every chance you could get (some forced). We didn't start this, but we had to step up to the plate. You have tried everything I can think of to hurt me and this company, and for no other reason then personal gain. You have degraded GS, and myself in more ways then I care to even mention here, to include calling up our customers and disrespecting us, telling lies and trying to gain information on us.
Yes, I know you have been asking around about us, and yes, we are not up and running here in MI yet, but we will be soon. No, this isn't my race Noel, rather it's between you and GS Custom Bullets, but you have brought me into it in ways I simply could not avoid. Ways I have had to address at great personal costs to save face. Now why? Why would you do this for any other reason but personal gain?
Putative you are not, nuisance you are. You still need to spout off at every chance you get....here, on the forums, where you are safe from actually having to put actions where your mouth is. And what "positive evidence" do you have that my "shoes are not even tied"? What does that even mean? You will say anything to bring us down to your level, and for what?
As for projectile design, you really are something else, and I don't mean that in a good way at all. You have been steady leaching off us for information since 2007, copied our bullets, or even shot OUR bullet at your own testing! Shit Noel, I even know the shooter!
You have ignored all the customer who have verified our bullets, like Dave Viers, Jon (14.5mm), Keith (Editor of FCSA VHP) and even the posts herein. So why on earth do you say the things you say?
A viable 6.5+ caliber projectile? Come on Noel, again, really? The 295 is over 6.7, the 414 375 is as well, so are many others, but who cares? Once again you make it about something that does not matter. It's not the calibers of length, it's the performance, and we deliver.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Anthony,
You are delusional, and if you do not make an effort to get a grasp on your emotions, it is <span style="font-style: italic">you</span> who are going to hurt GSC.
If ZA mimicked GSC designs, we would be getting GSC results... and that is the last thing that I want.
You are making a personal issue of what is best resolved with hard range data.
Best,
Noel
Anthony,
You are delusional, and if you do not make an effort to get a grasp on your emotions, it is <span style="font-style: italic">you</span> who are going to hurt GSC.
If ZA mimicked GSC designs, we would be getting GSC results... and that is the last thing that I want.
You are making a personal issue of what is best resolved with hard range data.
Best,
Noel
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gerard Schultz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My apologies to the other members here but, if Groper is trying to get a rise from me, he's got one. I do not suffer rudeness and fools gladly, I am sorry.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is so much wrong with the above post, its hysterical...</div></div> The hysterical thing here is that you prove beyond doubt your status as an ignoranus.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you think its responsible to quote a random "theoretical" BC</div></div> There is nothing random about the quoted BCs, you allow your ignorance to shine through. While on the subject of calculated BCs, do you have any for your designs?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for some of those bullets which are not even proven stable thru their entire flight regime?</div></div> Which are those? Or are you just running off at the mouth again?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And do you realize that G1 BC`s - whether "calculated" OR real world accurate - have absolutely zero meaning without a velocity to go with them? i see you quote the velocity for the bullets on your website, just none in the above post...</div></div> And your point is? Apart from feeling obliged demonstrate your ignorance, that is? For someone who has spent time on our website, you have learned surprisingly little.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you ever considered getting your bullets professionally tested yadda yadda yadda</div></div> Have you? Oh I forget, you are just an amateur with a rant to vent. Get out there and do something useful. Maybe try a little harder than this unstable, low BC joke that you produced, before you run off at the mouth:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the bullets your trying to sell?</div></div> We stopped the trying part several years back. We are working hard on our lead time now. It used to be 12 weeks and we have steadily whittled it down to 4. Now it is creeping up again. I fear that if we start the "trying to sell" thing again, it will be counter productive for the lead time. Bummer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah but Groper, you are forgetting that the bullets are made of specially heat treated and compressed bulldust,...hence the incredible BC figures ROFL.</div></div> Just when I thought groper had sole title on the ignoranus moniker, you pop up again.</div></div>
Oh dear the poor man cant spell "ignoramus" perhaps he is slightly challenged,..like his bullets????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gerard Schultz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My apologies to the other members here but, if Groper is trying to get a rise from me, he's got one. I do not suffer rudeness and fools gladly, I am sorry.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is so much wrong with the above post, its hysterical...</div></div> The hysterical thing here is that you prove beyond doubt your status as an ignoranus.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you think its responsible to quote a random "theoretical" BC</div></div> There is nothing random about the quoted BCs, you allow your ignorance to shine through. While on the subject of calculated BCs, do you have any for your designs?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for some of those bullets which are not even proven stable thru their entire flight regime?</div></div> Which are those? Or are you just running off at the mouth again?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And do you realize that G1 BC`s - whether "calculated" OR real world accurate - have absolutely zero meaning without a velocity to go with them? i see you quote the velocity for the bullets on your website, just none in the above post...</div></div> And your point is? Apart from feeling obliged demonstrate your ignorance, that is? For someone who has spent time on our website, you have learned surprisingly little.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you ever considered getting your bullets professionally tested yadda yadda yadda</div></div> Have you? Oh I forget, you are just an amateur with a rant to vent. Get out there and do something useful. Maybe try a little harder than this unstable, low BC joke that you produced, before you run off at the mouth:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the bullets your trying to sell?</div></div> We stopped the trying part several years back. We are working hard on our lead time now. It used to be 12 weeks and we have steadily whittled it down to 4. Now it is creeping up again. I fear that if we start the "trying to sell" thing again, it will be counter productive for the lead time. Bummer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah but Groper, you are forgetting that the bullets are made of specially heat treated and compressed bulldust,...hence the incredible BC figures ROFL.</div></div> Just when I thought groper had sole title on the ignoranus moniker, you pop up again.</div></div>
Oh dear the poor man cant spell "ignoramus" perhaps he is slightly challenged,..like his bullets????
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Hypertex,
Because you didnt even bother to re-zero between the 2 different loads, your results are so full of errors already and mean absolutely nothing... Thats the problem here, most people do not have the expertise or equipment to calculate accurate BC`s... So when people are left to their own methods, however flawed they may be, these magical numbers start popping up all over the internet and are sold as fact rather than the BS marketing hype it really is...
Anthony and Gerard,
At what point did i insult or disrespect, you or your company, or your product? What really happened is, you FELT insulted because i called you out on the mistakes you made and therefore you were embarrassed, that is all.
And you DO quote "RANDOM BC"... Heres you quoting a 1.85 BC for that 1100grain .510...
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VJFMGfUsrko"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VJFMGfUsrko" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Then in your above post its now 1.921 (as per mike @ anzio), so which is it? And again no velocity qualifier... you seem to just take whatever number looks better and publish that with little regard as to its accuracy... If you dont want your info scrutinized, then DONT POST IT ON A FORUM... Twitter is a more appropriate media which would better suit your purposes in this regard...
Keep your info accurate, and you wont have any problems on here...
Hypertex,
Because you didnt even bother to re-zero between the 2 different loads, your results are so full of errors already and mean absolutely nothing... Thats the problem here, most people do not have the expertise or equipment to calculate accurate BC`s... So when people are left to their own methods, however flawed they may be, these magical numbers start popping up all over the internet and are sold as fact rather than the BS marketing hype it really is...
Anthony and Gerard,
At what point did i insult or disrespect, you or your company, or your product? What really happened is, you FELT insulted because i called you out on the mistakes you made and therefore you were embarrassed, that is all.
And you DO quote "RANDOM BC"... Heres you quoting a 1.85 BC for that 1100grain .510...
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VJFMGfUsrko"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VJFMGfUsrko" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Then in your above post its now 1.921 (as per mike @ anzio), so which is it? And again no velocity qualifier... you seem to just take whatever number looks better and publish that with little regard as to its accuracy... If you dont want your info scrutinized, then DONT POST IT ON A FORUM... Twitter is a more appropriate media which would better suit your purposes in this regard...
Keep your info accurate, and you wont have any problems on here...
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Emouse,
I can assure you that I know how to spell "ignoramus". If that is what I wanted to write, I would have done so. I wrote "ignoranus" and that is what I meant. Look it up: http://www.unwords.com/unword/ignoranus.html
Emouse,
I can assure you that I know how to spell "ignoramus". If that is what I wanted to write, I would have done so. I wrote "ignoranus" and that is what I meant. Look it up: http://www.unwords.com/unword/ignoranus.html
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Jesus Fucking Christ!
If I'm reading this correctly, we've got two members here, Gerard Schultz and Extremist458, who actually design, make, test and sell custom bullets. By doing so they are contributing to the shooting community. New designs, new projectiles, new ideas to test and actually work on. Real world stuff.
Then we've got other members, Groper and Noel Carlson, who are not making anything other than being a pain in the ass to the two guys that are (Gerard Schultz and Extremist458)? Are Groper and Noel Carlson working on new designs, new projectiles, new ideas that actually are being tested in the real world? Are they?
Reading through this, all I have seen so far are two hecklers pissing on two real world bulletsmiths. I'd like to see some proof of real world contribution from Groper and Noel Carlson in the area of bullet smithing.
Right now, I haven't seen a damn thing. And pissing on companies in the shooting community for no good reason is just plain wrong.
So what the fuck is really going on here? If there is a back story, real world shit that we ought to know, then bring it to the forefront so The Hide can deal with actual facts.
By the way, Gerard, is that bullet designed using Catia, SolidWorks, Inventor or ProEngineer? By chance did you test it in Cosmos? Just wondering. These software packages used to be my area of expertise.
Keep up the good work, Gerard & Extremist458! My hat is off to you guys!
Jesus Fucking Christ!
If I'm reading this correctly, we've got two members here, Gerard Schultz and Extremist458, who actually design, make, test and sell custom bullets. By doing so they are contributing to the shooting community. New designs, new projectiles, new ideas to test and actually work on. Real world stuff.
Then we've got other members, Groper and Noel Carlson, who are not making anything other than being a pain in the ass to the two guys that are (Gerard Schultz and Extremist458)? Are Groper and Noel Carlson working on new designs, new projectiles, new ideas that actually are being tested in the real world? Are they?
Reading through this, all I have seen so far are two hecklers pissing on two real world bulletsmiths. I'd like to see some proof of real world contribution from Groper and Noel Carlson in the area of bullet smithing.
Right now, I haven't seen a damn thing. And pissing on companies in the shooting community for no good reason is just plain wrong.
So what the fuck is really going on here? If there is a back story, real world shit that we ought to know, then bring it to the forefront so The Hide can deal with actual facts.
By the way, Gerard, is that bullet designed using Catia, SolidWorks, Inventor or ProEngineer? By chance did you test it in Cosmos? Just wondering. These software packages used to be my area of expertise.
Keep up the good work, Gerard & Extremist458! My hat is off to you guys!
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Yes, ive designed, "smithed", and shot to 2000+m, many bullets my friend, such as this one... they work...
I know your all waiting to see more details and what design features are hidden inside the case, but i do not wish to reveal my propriety design until i have everything ready for a full and totally new product launch> This involves; the finished website, complete Ballistic information, machining an inventory of stock, ready to ship instantly when the product is launched. Still on track for April 2011.
Youll notice i dont spout off random or calculated BC claims, instead, im going to great lengths to derive a very accurate BC for my bullets, for the benefit of the end user, by way of accurate Time of Flight measurements. i beleive in doing things properly and accurately with the highest quality in the industry - Businesses dont succeed unless they can offer something better than whats currently available, which is exactly what i intend to do... better bullets, better service, more accurate information...
Yes, ive designed, "smithed", and shot to 2000+m, many bullets my friend, such as this one... they work...
I know your all waiting to see more details and what design features are hidden inside the case, but i do not wish to reveal my propriety design until i have everything ready for a full and totally new product launch> This involves; the finished website, complete Ballistic information, machining an inventory of stock, ready to ship instantly when the product is launched. Still on track for April 2011.
Youll notice i dont spout off random or calculated BC claims, instead, im going to great lengths to derive a very accurate BC for my bullets, for the benefit of the end user, by way of accurate Time of Flight measurements. i beleive in doing things properly and accurately with the highest quality in the industry - Businesses dont succeed unless they can offer something better than whats currently available, which is exactly what i intend to do... better bullets, better service, more accurate information...
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
ive designed, "smithed", and shot to 2000+m, many bullets my friend, such as this one... they work...
Businesses dont succeed unless they can offer something better than whats currently available, which is exactly what i intend to do... better bullets, better service, more accurate information...
</div></div>
Ok. So why dont you send some samples to B. Litz for testing?
Honestly, I would be interested to hear how your bullet performs, tested by independent expert.
This way you would get solid test data and free advertisement at the same time- assuming that projectile works as you described.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
ive designed, "smithed", and shot to 2000+m, many bullets my friend, such as this one... they work...
Businesses dont succeed unless they can offer something better than whats currently available, which is exactly what i intend to do... better bullets, better service, more accurate information...
</div></div>
Ok. So why dont you send some samples to B. Litz for testing?
Honestly, I would be interested to hear how your bullet performs, tested by independent expert.
This way you would get solid test data and free advertisement at the same time- assuming that projectile works as you described.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
A picture is worth a thousand words.
http://www.analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=540
A picture is worth a thousand words.
http://www.analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=540
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Hypertex - what velocity did you shoot the 295s at and what twist is in your barrel?
JeffVN
Hypertex - what velocity did you shoot the 295s at and what twist is in your barrel?
JeffVN
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
This beyond 1000 yards sub forum truely is turning into the the biggest joke on this web site. Frank or one of the mods should put a disclaimer behind the sub title "for entertainment purposes only". This tread is a good example of the reasons nobody posts up any good info anymore.
This beyond 1000 yards sub forum truely is turning into the the biggest joke on this web site. Frank or one of the mods should put a disclaimer behind the sub title "for entertainment purposes only". This tread is a good example of the reasons nobody posts up any good info anymore.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Noel,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are delusional</div></div>
To paraphrase: It takes one to think he knows one.
Noel,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are delusional</div></div>
To paraphrase: It takes one to think he knows one.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, ive designed, "smithed", and shot to 2000+m, many bullets my friend, such as this one... they work...
I know your all waiting to see more details and what design features are hidden inside the case, but i do not wish to reveal my propriety design until i have everything ready for a full and totally new product launch> This involves; the finished website, complete Ballistic information, machining an inventory of stock, ready to ship instantly when the product is launched. Still on track for April 2011.
Youll notice i dont spout off random or calculated BC claims, instead, im going to great lengths to derive a very accurate BC for my bullets, for the benefit of the end user, by way of accurate Time of Flight measurements. i beleive in doing things properly and accurately with the highest quality in the industry - Businesses dont succeed unless they can offer something better than whats currently available, which is exactly what i intend to do... better bullets, better service, more accurate information... </div></div>
Interesting. So you are business competitors then. I look forward to you coming on line with your website, providing pictures and products for sale. It will also prove a great deal when an independent expert conducts thorough testing and a shoot off between the two companies bullets.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, ive designed, "smithed", and shot to 2000+m, many bullets my friend, such as this one... they work...
I know your all waiting to see more details and what design features are hidden inside the case, but i do not wish to reveal my propriety design until i have everything ready for a full and totally new product launch> This involves; the finished website, complete Ballistic information, machining an inventory of stock, ready to ship instantly when the product is launched. Still on track for April 2011.
Youll notice i dont spout off random or calculated BC claims, instead, im going to great lengths to derive a very accurate BC for my bullets, for the benefit of the end user, by way of accurate Time of Flight measurements. i beleive in doing things properly and accurately with the highest quality in the industry - Businesses dont succeed unless they can offer something better than whats currently available, which is exactly what i intend to do... better bullets, better service, more accurate information... </div></div>
Interesting. So you are business competitors then. I look forward to you coming on line with your website, providing pictures and products for sale. It will also prove a great deal when an independent expert conducts thorough testing and a shoot off between the two companies bullets.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Ranger,
You must be new to the entire subject of ELR projectile development that has taken place over the past two years.
Why not expand your proposed "shoot-out" to four companies (that I know of)... better yet, why stop there; Invite <span style="font-weight: bold">all</span> 338 manufacturers, solid and jacketed alike, and let's put a stake through the heart of this verbal pissing match.
Ranger,
You must be new to the entire subject of ELR projectile development that has taken place over the past two years.
Why not expand your proposed "shoot-out" to four companies (that I know of)... better yet, why stop there; Invite <span style="font-weight: bold">all</span> 338 manufacturers, solid and jacketed alike, and let's put a stake through the heart of this verbal pissing match.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Noel,
Please send me links to your website and the other ELR projectile companies websites. I may indeed be ignorant of new developments in ELR projectiles. So, as a fellow member of the Hide, show me what I'm missing.
Thanks!
Noel,
Please send me links to your website and the other ELR projectile companies websites. I may indeed be ignorant of new developments in ELR projectiles. So, as a fellow member of the Hide, show me what I'm missing.
Thanks!
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Ranger,
You have my attention, so you may consider this an affirmative committment by ZA to participate.
I would also suggest:
- Prodigy Group (Lutz Moeller USA)
- Lehigh
- Predator
- GSC
-(Grouper ?)
- Berger
- Lapua
- Sierra
I believe Saab can provide their LOMAH (location of miss and hit) acoustic at-target velocity sensor for BC validation.
You might also contact Accurate Shooter Magazine, the folks that put together the Anthony video, for on site witnessing of the shoot-out results.
I just happen to have a good 3,000 meter range available that our local SWAT team has volunteered for just such purposes.
I appreciate your interest, and willingness to help. Let's get the show on the road.
Ranger,
You have my attention, so you may consider this an affirmative committment by ZA to participate.
I would also suggest:
- Prodigy Group (Lutz Moeller USA)
- Lehigh
- Predator
- GSC
-(Grouper ?)
- Berger
- Lapua
- Sierra
I believe Saab can provide their LOMAH (location of miss and hit) acoustic at-target velocity sensor for BC validation.
You might also contact Accurate Shooter Magazine, the folks that put together the Anthony video, for on site witnessing of the shoot-out results.
I just happen to have a good 3,000 meter range available that our local SWAT team has volunteered for just such purposes.
I appreciate your interest, and willingness to help. Let's get the show on the road.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
No comment?
Ranger, you wanted "real world" information. It does not get any more "real" than this, and I am entirely disinclined to allow the issue redescend into the world of pixelated BS.
My offer stands open, and yes Gerard... this means you. Drop the prissy little victim crap, and step up.
No comment?
Ranger, you wanted "real world" information. It does not get any more "real" than this, and I am entirely disinclined to allow the issue redescend into the world of pixelated BS.
My offer stands open, and yes Gerard... this means you. Drop the prissy little victim crap, and step up.
A
Augustus
Guest
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Ok guys, heres the deal as I see it. There are several folks working on high BC solids and none of them has a viable product that is ready for consumption by the general public.
All the hype about BC will quickly evaporate as soon as these projos get in the hands of competant shooters. Recent examples is the 300 Berger Hybrid, Hat Alum. Tip, Wildcat Alum Tip and now the Rocky MTN. All of these are good products; however,there were liberties taken when describing their performance. I do not know what was in the hearts and minds of the developers when the first numbers began to be made public but the numbers could not stand the test of time.
This same process will be played out again in the case of the solids. I jst finished firing a 375 solid that was thought to have a BC around 1, when all the numbers were crunched and the rubber met the road it appears the funtional BC is around .920
It is not difficult to come up with a G1 BC number that is usable. Look at the 300 SMK, there is almost no debate as to the funtional BC of this bullet. Due care must be used to insure all pertinant inputs are correct. With good testing procedures you wll not mistake a 1 BC bullet for a 1.250 bullet. There is a huge difference when tested at ELR, the difference is undeniable, especially when the same set-up is used on the same range, the same day, with the same shooter. For added conformation shoot an old stand-by such as the 338/408, 300 SMK at 3200 on that same range, the same day that is set up with an identical scope, ring, base system as the one being used to test the prototypes.
If anyone out there has a 1.250 375 bullet available I want some of them right now, I have the money one the table and I would like to order them right now. Anybody????
Ok guys, heres the deal as I see it. There are several folks working on high BC solids and none of them has a viable product that is ready for consumption by the general public.
All the hype about BC will quickly evaporate as soon as these projos get in the hands of competant shooters. Recent examples is the 300 Berger Hybrid, Hat Alum. Tip, Wildcat Alum Tip and now the Rocky MTN. All of these are good products; however,there were liberties taken when describing their performance. I do not know what was in the hearts and minds of the developers when the first numbers began to be made public but the numbers could not stand the test of time.
This same process will be played out again in the case of the solids. I jst finished firing a 375 solid that was thought to have a BC around 1, when all the numbers were crunched and the rubber met the road it appears the funtional BC is around .920
It is not difficult to come up with a G1 BC number that is usable. Look at the 300 SMK, there is almost no debate as to the funtional BC of this bullet. Due care must be used to insure all pertinant inputs are correct. With good testing procedures you wll not mistake a 1 BC bullet for a 1.250 bullet. There is a huge difference when tested at ELR, the difference is undeniable, especially when the same set-up is used on the same range, the same day, with the same shooter. For added conformation shoot an old stand-by such as the 338/408, 300 SMK at 3200 on that same range, the same day that is set up with an identical scope, ring, base system as the one being used to test the prototypes.
If anyone out there has a 1.250 375 bullet available I want some of them right now, I have the money one the table and I would like to order them right now. Anybody????
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 375 with a BC of 1.250... I think I can help you.
</div></div>
You think, or you have some ready to ship to Augustus?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 375 with a BC of 1.250... I think I can help you.
You think, or you have some ready to ship to Augustus?
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Is there someone who makes a high BC bullet that does NOT bicker like a little schoolgirl on public forums? Or is there something about these projectiles that turns everybody who gets close to them into immature, unprofessional miscreants?
I'm not sure I would buy anything from any of you simply because of the way you treat each other with such disrespect AND hijack these threads and force the rest of us to put up with your public display of bad manners.
Trust me, people who treat their competitors (and others) like this, don't suddenly, magically begin caring deeply for others just because they are now dealing with a customer.
Character DOES matter and it sure seems to be lacking in the high BC projectile world.
Perhaps one of the lot of you who actually cares what anyone else thinks, could start your own thread so you guys could hash this out there and stop dragging your dirty laundry into every thread in Beyond 1000 Yards.
John
Is there someone who makes a high BC bullet that does NOT bicker like a little schoolgirl on public forums? Or is there something about these projectiles that turns everybody who gets close to them into immature, unprofessional miscreants?
I'm not sure I would buy anything from any of you simply because of the way you treat each other with such disrespect AND hijack these threads and force the rest of us to put up with your public display of bad manners.
Trust me, people who treat their competitors (and others) like this, don't suddenly, magically begin caring deeply for others just because they are now dealing with a customer.
Character DOES matter and it sure seems to be lacking in the high BC projectile world.
Perhaps one of the lot of you who actually cares what anyone else thinks, could start your own thread so you guys could hash this out there and stop dragging your dirty laundry into every thread in Beyond 1000 Yards.
John
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Noel,
I have had two rifles chambered in .375/408 so far, I am out of that game until I see some independent testing. I don't have the money to test bullets and change barrels back and forth to figure out what works. I have an action here ready to do something with when all this gets to be something more than a pissing match. But, I am not the guy to do T&E for anyone...
Thanks
Noel,
I have had two rifles chambered in .375/408 so far, I am out of that game until I see some independent testing. I don't have the money to test bullets and change barrels back and forth to figure out what works. I have an action here ready to do something with when all this gets to be something more than a pissing match. But, I am not the guy to do T&E for anyone...
Thanks
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
John,
Character does matter. Witholding judgement, in absence of a larger picture, is one of the functions of character... all due respect.
John,
Character does matter. Witholding judgement, in absence of a larger picture, is one of the functions of character... all due respect.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Gaslight,
I understand, but that was not the question which you asked.
Gaslight,
I understand, but that was not the question which you asked.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
if you re-read my question you could answer it, and re-read it again and realize I wasn't asking for bullets for myself
Dave
if you re-read my question you could answer it, and re-read it again and realize I wasn't asking for bullets for myself
Dave
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Maybe I am missing something, and there is an inside joke between you and Augustus? I don't know, all I see was that he asked if there was anyone who had a 1.2 BC .375 bullet, and basically he said he has money on the table. Your response didn't really satisfy the question asked by him. Unless again there is something insider between you two? It seems to me a pretty straightforeward question, are you producing and selling a 1.2 BC bullet?
Dave
Maybe I am missing something, and there is an inside joke between you and Augustus? I don't know, all I see was that he asked if there was anyone who had a 1.2 BC .375 bullet, and basically he said he has money on the table. Your response didn't really satisfy the question asked by him. Unless again there is something insider between you two? It seems to me a pretty straightforeward question, are you producing and selling a 1.2 BC bullet?
Dave
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Gaslight,
Augustus established the 1.250 BC for the ZA375/6.5-M projectile a number of months ago. It was an inside joke, sorry.
Gaslight,
Augustus established the 1.250 BC for the ZA375/6.5-M projectile a number of months ago. It was an inside joke, sorry.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Character does matter. Witholding judgement, in absence of a larger picture, is one of the functions of character... all due respect.
</div></div>
Having character is not necessarily a requirement for noting the lack in others... or perhaps you were demonstrating?
I have watched the lot of you turn this sub-forum into a circus now for over two years. I'm certain that there is MUCH more that has happened and is happening outside this forum that impacts all of you. I've considered the fact that at one point there was a "good guy" and an antagonist and that the "good guy" succumbed to being constantly harangued and regrettably lowered himself to the mudslinging.
Quite frankly, I don't really care HOW we got here or what the big picture might be. I just wish you guys would either be respectful of yourself and others and obey the forum rules or go away.
If you think I'm out of line and you've been thrown in with a band of hooligans by mistake, please forgive me. Perhaps guilt by association?
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Character does matter. Witholding judgement, in absence of a larger picture, is one of the functions of character... all due respect.
</div></div>
Having character is not necessarily a requirement for noting the lack in others... or perhaps you were demonstrating?
I have watched the lot of you turn this sub-forum into a circus now for over two years. I'm certain that there is MUCH more that has happened and is happening outside this forum that impacts all of you. I've considered the fact that at one point there was a "good guy" and an antagonist and that the "good guy" succumbed to being constantly harangued and regrettably lowered himself to the mudslinging.
Quite frankly, I don't really care HOW we got here or what the big picture might be. I just wish you guys would either be respectful of yourself and others and obey the forum rules or go away.
If you think I'm out of line and you've been thrown in with a band of hooligans by mistake, please forgive me. Perhaps guilt by association?
John
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
OK, I was behind the curve on that one. What twist and velocity is required for this bullet? Or perhaps a link to the results of Augustus'.
I am also kinda wondering why Augustus is implying that there isn't a 1.250 BC bullet out there when he has clearly tested and verified one?
Sorry looking for solid answers and it is tough to wade through all the piss and bullshit
OK, I was behind the curve on that one. What twist and velocity is required for this bullet? Or perhaps a link to the results of Augustus'.
I am also kinda wondering why Augustus is implying that there isn't a 1.250 BC bullet out there when he has clearly tested and verified one?
Sorry looking for solid answers and it is tough to wade through all the piss and bullshit
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Gaslight,
The barrel has always been an obstacle to the general release of these projectiles. That obstacle no longer exists.
For a 6.5 caliber projectile, a 14 caliber exit twist is required. In 375, that translates into a 1: 5.25" exit twist @ 3,150 fps.
Gaslight,
The barrel has always been an obstacle to the general release of these projectiles. That obstacle no longer exists.
For a 6.5 caliber projectile, a 14 caliber exit twist is required. In 375, that translates into a 1: 5.25" exit twist @ 3,150 fps.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Is a 5.25 Twist useable for any other projectile in the world? Or if I buy a 5.25 twist barrel, then I am committing to your projectile?
Is a 5.25 Twist useable for any other projectile in the world? Or if I buy a 5.25 twist barrel, then I am committing to your projectile?
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Also, not to be a smart ass, but is there a reason you continually use the term caliber to refer to the length and now the twist when it is more commonly used to define the diameter of the bullet or bore?
Also, not to be a smart ass, but is there a reason you continually use the term caliber to refer to the length and now the twist when it is more commonly used to define the diameter of the bullet or bore?
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Gaslight,
I can not speak as to <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> other 375 projectiles, but the lower BC (read "shorter") ones will very likely overstabilize, and some of the poorly designed "long" bullets are useless in any twist at higher velocities.
I suspect that a number of solid 375 ELR projectiles will fly just fine from that twist.
Gaslight,
I can not speak as to <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> other 375 projectiles, but the lower BC (read "shorter") ones will very likely overstabilize, and some of the poorly designed "long" bullets are useless in any twist at higher velocities.
I suspect that a number of solid 375 ELR projectiles will fly just fine from that twist.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Yes,
The reason that I use "calibers", is that these relationships are much easier to follow, and patterns emerge which will become instinctively recognizable once you think in those terms.
Yes,
The reason that I use "calibers", is that these relationships are much easier to follow, and patterns emerge which will become instinctively recognizable once you think in those terms.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
so what exactly does a 14 caliber twist mean, without the conversion to something I understand? Same question for a 6.5 cabliber bullet, how you use the term...
so what exactly does a 14 caliber twist mean, without the conversion to something I understand? Same question for a 6.5 cabliber bullet, how you use the term...
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
Gaslight,
Look at caliber/twist ratio as a largely scalable phenomena, allowing for some difference in projectile Reynolds numbers.
It allows a projectille designer to focus upon projectile form modifications, across a broad spectrum of bullet diameter range, without nearly as much guesswork.
Gaslight,
Look at caliber/twist ratio as a largely scalable phenomena, allowing for some difference in projectile Reynolds numbers.
It allows a projectille designer to focus upon projectile form modifications, across a broad spectrum of bullet diameter range, without nearly as much guesswork.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so what exactly does a 14 caliber twist mean, without the conversion to something I understand? Same question for a 6.5 cabliber bullet, how you use the term... </div></div>
It just means 6.5 = .264 x 14 cal = 3.696 . A 1 turn in 3.6 inch barrel.
The thing I find interesting is , how all this perfect BC data is going to be found in Australia . You would need Doppler radar like at Yuma proving ground in USA . I am not aware of any such facility in Australia? Correct me if I'm wrong.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so what exactly does a 14 caliber twist mean, without the conversion to something I understand? Same question for a 6.5 cabliber bullet, how you use the term... </div></div>
It just means 6.5 = .264 x 14 cal = 3.696 . A 1 turn in 3.6 inch barrel.
The thing I find interesting is , how all this perfect BC data is going to be found in Australia . You would need Doppler radar like at Yuma proving ground in USA . I am not aware of any such facility in Australia? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
so basically a 6.5 caliber .375 bullet is .375x6.5= 2.44" long?
Thanks
so basically a 6.5 caliber .375 bullet is .375x6.5= 2.44" long?
Thanks
Re: Highest BC bullet available?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes,
The reason that I use "calibers", is that these relationships are much easier to follow, and patterns emerge which will become instinctively recognizable once you think in those terms. </div></div>
So, do high BC bullets "scale" or are there nuances to designing them at ends of the caliber spectrum?
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes,
The reason that I use "calibers", is that these relationships are much easier to follow, and patterns emerge which will become instinctively recognizable once you think in those terms. </div></div>
So, do high BC bullets "scale" or are there nuances to designing them at ends of the caliber spectrum?
John
