Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

[Wannashootit]

I'm not getting something here...
Hodgdon is about to release their Superformance powder. EDIT: It is out...
Seems that is not recommended for the .223, as there is no load data for that caliber...

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/SuperLever.pdf

However, Hornady uses the powder extensively in their .223's in both Varmint and Match bullets. What am I not getting here?

Guess I'm gonna call Hornady next week to see what's up- whether they have load data with this powder for their bullets, or are they keeping it under their hat for some reason?

 

[Smokin99]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

Just picked up 32lbs of Superformance for me and my buddy, we will be using this stuff in our coyote calling rifles which are 6mmRem, 6mmAI, and 243AI tomorrow the loading starts

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

32 POUNDS?
Wow... hope you like it! You've got a bunch of rounds to shoot

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

Just picked up the new Hodgdon annual manual. There is an article about it discussing the cartridges they have worked up data for. They discourage experimentation, so for now there are recipes for only;

.22-250
.243
.243 WSSM
.25 WSSM
.300 RCM
.300 WSM

Interestingly the article's author, Lane Pearce, thought to try working something up for his 6mm Remington as the case capacity is "almost the same as the .243 WSSM" and spoke to Hodgdon's Ron Reiber about it.

Reiber told him ,"No don't experiment with any cartridge that we haven't tested extensively in our lab. Only certain component combinations will yield the improved ballistics we're touting for this propellant. The applications for Superformance are limited. But where it works, it does so very well"

Apologies to the publisher if there is any copyright infringement here but I believe this information is also available on the Hodgdon website.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

Yeah, got the same mag myself yesterday- that's what got me thinking.

It's clearly the same powder- it even says "Hornady" on the label along with Hodgdon...

It's obviously been tested with the .223 (and any other Superformance ammo that Hornady manufactures), and given the HUGE popularity of that round I don't get why they're not "approving it" for .223 and providing load data.

I wasn't gonna tell the above poster how to do his reloading for the 6mm...but I wouldn't do it.

Unless they think we're just gonna be forced to buy the loaded ammo...

I will call them on Monday and provide an update on what they tell me...

 

[repiv]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

I spoke to them on the phone about calibers other then the ones listed and they said there were more than 30 variations of powder blends for Superformance factory ammo. He even said they may release a few more to be sold retail at some time. He also said the same thing about "do not try this with anything but what is listed"

Take that for what its worth.................

 

[Iamironman]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

^^ This is what I read elsewhere on this site. That the powder that is now being sold is NOT the same powder they are using in 223 and 308 factory loaded ammo.

I picked up a lb myself, but will be using it exclusively in my 25 WSSM, no experimenting for me.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

So why not sell it, even if it is a different formulation?
Call it "Superformance B", or whatever...
Point is, they have it, why are they holding out?

I still ain't gonna drop the coin on the pre-loaded ammo...

 

[fastford]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

i just tired in in 260 remmington, and it was faster in my 22" GAP 260 AR10

i got all the way up to 49 gr before it popped a primer. it chronoed 2920 out of my AR.

settled on 47.5 which averaged 2820

 

[trigger time]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

Anyone try this in a 243 with d-tacs or similar weight bullet?

 

[fireguyty]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smokin99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just picked up 32lbs of Superformance for me and my buddy, we will be using this stuff in our coyote calling rifles which are 6mmRem, 6mmAI, and 243AI tomorrow the loading starts</div></div>

OMG did you buy into the hype! I got a pound and not only did it give the same velocity as my other powder, it didn't group either. I hope it works for you.

BTW anyone want to buy an opened pound of Superform?

 

[Smokin99]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

Yeah we shoot alittle up here you might say, We just finished loading for a 243AI and a 6mmRem (Coyote/PDog rifles) with 70gr Ballistic tips and the stuff is awesome to say the least. Our 6mm with a 24" kreiger 1:12 twist chronoed at 3890fps with a 7fps spread cutting bullet holes, was shot over an Oehler Model 35. Buy into the hype.....LMFAO we sure did and glad about it also!
Ill have load info on many other cal when I return from SHOT

 

[bohem]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

The word on the street is that if the powder did not yield a noteworthy muzzle velocity increase in a specific caliber, it was not published with data for it. Marketing reasons.


It is pretty fast when you start thinking about heavy bullets in stuff like 243's and 6mm Rem's. With light bullets (70-85's) I have no trouble believing that it's fantastic stuff in a high performance 6mm but with a 115gr class bullet I'm apt to think the pressure will show way before something like a stiff load of H1000 will perform to.

It works well with the 175's in a 308, loading in that kind of burn rate for a 223 with heavy bullets it shouldn't be too hard to get some testing to work out and try something like a 70-80gr bullet in there.

I suspect the burn rate is not unlike BLC2, it just keeps the pressure curve higher for longer (RL17 behavior).

 

[Rob01]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

There are different Superformance blends. The one being sold is not the same that is in the 178 Superformance ammo. It's meant for the cartridges listed in the pdf above.

 

[blue_ridge]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

But if it will perform in a 243 case (as listed in the pdf) why wouldn't it perform well in a 308 case?

If you did try it in a 308, what would be a starting load to work up from?

 

[bohem]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

Rob- I thought they were only selling 2 kinds of new powder, one from the lever action ammo and 1 for the 308 stuff?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blue_ridge</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But if it will perform in a 243 case (as listed in the pdf) why wouldn't it perform well in a 308 case?
</div></div>

Several reasons, but the overbore and expansion ratios between a 243 and a 308 are immense. The powders used for the 2 chamberings are generally very different in burn rate.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

Everyone thinks that since the 243, 7MM08, 308, etc are basically the same case that any single powder for one will work well with all. That is not the case. I once (years ago) loaded all my 308 with WW 748. When I started hunting with 7MM08 that powder worked well too. It worked well in so many calibers that it was my "Go To" powder. Then came the 243 and I could find no data for 748. I called Sierra and asked about 243 loads with 748. As it turned out Sierra's tests had found only about 1 grain of powder from starting to max load and that any small component change made such a large pressure change that is was not recommended at all for that case.
I don't care much for the idea of blended powder and will not be on the Superformance band wagon for a while. But I am just an old fart that has been reloading for 35 years.

 

[NOMAD]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

Using this powder you will NEVER!!! I repeat never get the velocity to the speeds they get the 178 to run from their factory loaded 178 BTHP .308 superformance load!!

If you want to take use that poweder ONLY use it for the prescribed loads and you will be a happy shooter!!

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

My point. These blended powders are the cutting edge of technology. While I have/will sometimes fudge on published data, I would never try to extrapolate or fudge any data for the Superformance powder. You risk not only personal injury but damage to your very expensive custom rifles.

 

[NOMAD]

Re: Hodgdon Superformance, and the .223...

Guys listen for your safety for one and two to save you money and alot of your free time!!

I have spoke extensively to Hornady about the powders used in the superformance loads and also about the Hodgdon release of superformance powder.

The stuff that Hodgdon is selling is NOT the same blends of powders being loaded at the factory by Hornady.

The Hodgdon blend of powder will get you close in the rounds that they have provided the loads for. The key factor is that you are able to get 100 fps faster using this powder with the Hodgdon blends with low pressure.

In the end if you want to gain the ballistic advantages of Superformance you will need to buy the factory loaded ammunition from Hornady. They designed and developed the magic potion and you wont see them selling them blends any time soon.