Holy smokes, DPMS G2 rifles

#51
when I went to my local gun shop they actually had both the g1 and g2 sass models side by side and after picking each up in hand it was night and day between the two. I would love to get the g2 sass on the range and kick some rounds down the tube. Lighter weight, improved receiver, dual ejectors, improved brass deflector, and monolithic bolt is rather impressive. The fact it comes with the harris bipod with adapter, rail covers, magpul buis, and magpul prs buttstock for about $2k is rather amazing.


FALex said:
wow, so the g2 SASS is right about the same price point as the g1 SASS was/is (don't know if it is still around that 1900 retail price point)? That's cool. I see they don't come with the JP trigger anymore. DPMS's website indicates it is the DPMS 2 stage fire control group. I owned the g1 SASS and liked that JP trigger. It will be nice to see how the DPMS trigger stacks up, if it stacks up?
Click to expand...
 
#53
All dressed up, ready to go out.

9 lb. 4 oz. w/scope

27zb41k.jpg
 
#59
I'm pretty sure it's the same handguard on the "DPMS" Hunter GII, since DPMS and Remington are just conveniently retained, and highly profitable name brands of the same company now.

I wonder if Freedom Group will kick Remington's reputation for hit or miss barrel headspacing in the butt like they did with the GII, and actually crank out a consistent, quality product under the "Remington" name.

I have to say, the GII really caught my attention more than anything from SHOT, and "DPMS" was the last company I would have ever expected innovation from. It all makes sense when you realize there is no DPMS, and Freedom Group has employed some very talented engineers, designers, managers, and marketers.

The manner in which this whole thing came together really continues to impress me:

* True innovation on a design that has been basically copied by everyone and their brother, (with exception of Carl Lewis and Reed Knight II)
* The sum of the parts and improvements equal a solution that is larger than their individual merits.
* They actually torture-tested, and applied higher industry RDT&E protocols to the design rather than just slapping some extruded mess together, and letting customers beta-test it.
* They kept the lid on it, while secretly moving product to dealers to coincide with the release at SHOT.

What we're seeing is something very rare in the firearms industry. How many of us have seen cool things at SHOT, had promises made about quality & delivery, then watch it fizzle, disappear into obscurity, or deliver a faulty product that fails to meet basic reliability expectations? The list is long.

While many of us have been watching the Freedom Group with a cocked eye, I think we're seeing something truly unique in American firearms corporate evolution that could really pay off for all parties involved, and the GII is a sort of flagship in that regard, provided it lives up to reliability expectations. I don't see a lot of reasons why it wouldn't, other than the extractor, but they have covered their bases on it as far as cycle testing, temps, and lubricants. They also improved the ejector system, and used optimized alloy and manufacturing standards for the extractor.

I always start from a skeptical perspective, and let the product prove itself from a zero expectation point over several years.
 
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#60
Once again, very informative. You're a real asset to the SH community.

No kidding! someone else needs to buy some of these G2's and test them out for me so I can make a solid choice if I want to purchase one myself! LOL JK

LRRPF52 said:
I'm pretty sure it's the same handguard on the "DPMS" Hunter GII, since DPMS and Remington are just conveniently retained, and highly profitable name brands of the same company now.

I wonder if Freedom Group will kick Remington's reputation for hit or miss barrel headspacing in the butt like they did with the GII, and actually crank out a consistent, quality product under the "Remington" name.

I have to say, the GII really caught my attention more than anything from SHOT, and "DPMS" was the last company I would have ever expected innovation from. It all makes sense when you realize there is no DPMS, and Freedom Group has employed some very talented engineers, designers, managers, and marketers.

The manner in which this whole thing came together really continues to impress me:

* True innovation on a design that has been basically copied by everyone and their brother, (with exception of Carl Lewis and Reed Knight II)
* The sum of the parts and improvements equal a solution that is larger than their individual merits.
* They actually torture-tested, and applied higher industry RDT&E protocols to the design rather than just slapping some extruded mess together, and letting customers beta-test it.
* They kept the lid on it, while secretly moving product to dealers to coincide with the release at SHOT.

What we're seeing is something very rare in the firearms industry. How many of us have seen cool things at SHOT, had promises made about quality & delivery, then watch it fizzle, disappear into obscurity, or deliver a faulty product that fails to meet basic reliability expectations? The list is long.

While many of us have been watching the Freedom Group with a cocked eye, I think we're seeing something truly unique in American firearms corporate evolution that could really pay off for all parties involved, and the GII is a sort of flagship in that regard, provided it lives up to reliability expectations. I don't see a lot of reasons why it wouldn't, other than the extractor, but they have covered their bases on it as far as cycle testing, temps, and lubricants. They also improved the ejector system, and used optimized alloy and manufacturing standards for the extractor.

I always start from a skeptical perspective, and let the product prove itself from a zero expectation point over several years.
Click to expand...
 
#61
I think with the GII's we will see the same accuracy standard maintained that DPMS was known for, maybe even better with ISO-9000 series compliance from a group of professionals running the show. Either way, the LR-308 and SASS accuracy is pretty dang good for rack-grade guns, even though spoiled guys like me turn their noses at them unless we luck out with a hummer.

I actually think the GII could be in a position to compete for military contracts if the reliability improvements result in much lower MTBF compared to Randy Luth DPMS rifles, that often came non-functional from the factory with badly MIM'd extractors (let the customer beta-test it and we'll fix it if they complain), tight chambers from worn reamers burning through volume to make an extra buck, only to lose it on returns, customer service calls, and warranty repairs.

The impression that I felt from the staff at the "DPMS" booth was "We're not here to play around with rack-grade AR15 vismods anymore." It's one thing to look at a great piece of craftsmanship. It's another to look the staff in the eyes, and ascertain their knowledge, confidence, motivation level, and overall vibe. I often can learn more from just one look on a senior company officer's face, than an entire year of marketing could ever pull off. There was a sense that big things are in their future, but they are disciplined enough to keep tight-lipped without even hinting about them, and being able to show off the GII gave them plenty of things to do rather than whisper in your ear...

"Navy SEALs are using this...." and crap like that you hear from some of the vendors. Sometimes what is not said speaks louder than what is. I got the impression when speaking with Adam Ballard that it didn't really matter if I liked the GII, it was going places no matter what, and not from a pompous posture either. They knew what they had.
 
#63
wow, not only does it look badass, but ultra light weight! It's too bad they didn't horizontally flatten out the tail end of the buttstock for about 3 to 4" to ride better on a rear sandbag... other than that, it looks amazing!


LRRPF52 said:
Thanks for your kind words elfster. Maybe the Freedom Group Easter Bunny will drop you one off. Here's a better picture of what appears to be the "Remington" R25 GII:

Click to expand...
 
#64
That rifle isn't meant to ride sand bags, it's meant to slay beasts after being carried in the woods, mountains, and fields.

The GII SASS is a bag-rider, but will be able to be carried easier than the legacy SASS.
 
#66
I think many black rifle converts or enthusiasts still haven't realized just how much the Stoner design has taken the hunting world by storm.

The .308's have been a big part of that, but hunters have complained about weight all along.

While target shooters haven't cared too much about weight, hunters and action competitors have demanded lighter and lighter guns, and by the way, they want less recoil too. One area they don't complain about the AR family is accuracy, as we know that it is an inherently accurate design. The AMU opened a lot of people's eyes when they started smoking the M1A at high power matches, and it's been almost a moot point since then, with a few hold-outs.

How many of us know scores of older shooters that love their AR15's and AR10's? It has been a growing trend that you can watch with most visits to the gun store.
 
#67
346ci said:
Let them offer one in 6.5CM and I will buy one just for s&g.
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THIS! I'm not married anymore so I don't have anyone bitching at me about what I buy, but I would kick my OWN ass for buying ANOTHER .308, but make that thing in 6.5CM or even 6 Creed and I'd definitely buy one whether I "needed" it or not.

ETA: Sorry, I read my post and realized it could be construed in some way that I wasn't stoked about these new goodies. I have one of the mini-SASS rifles and love it. I'm glad to see someone is trying to improve the platform rather than just copying what everyone else is doing. I just wish I could justify another .308, with a different caliber I could lie to myself that I "needed" it.
 
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#70
Picked up my G2 SASS from the FFL yesterday. Haven't got a chance to shoot it yet but I'm impressed. The trigger is nice, I don't think I'll be changing it. There is a little bit of play between the lower and upper but not much. Most AR15s I've handled have more play. It takes quite a bit to rack the bolt back. I don't consider myself a wuss but it's pretty damn tough to get ALL the way back.

I can't believe how much it feels like a AR15. I really didn't believe it when people said that but it is true.

I did swap the bi-pod for another Harris bi-pod I had laying around. I didn't like the way the legs extended on the one the gun came with.

And now for the good stuff!



How it came from the FFL











This is a Hornady Superformance 165gr GMX round.

 
#72
I'm excited on the one hand but don't hold high hopes given lol DPMS and currently Remington group quality control. Marlin Remington etc are pumping out some crap and have been for the last couple of years.
 
#73
you should really read what lrrpf52 noted above... we are looking at a whole new company with the same name. hopefully.

Bevan said:
I'm excited on the one hand but don't hold high hopes given lol DPMS and currently Remington group quality control. Marlin Remington etc are pumping out some crap and have been for the last couple of years.
Click to expand...
 
#74
elfster1234 said:
you should really read what lrrpf52 noted above... we are looking at a whole new company with the same name. hopefully.
Click to expand...


I read it, he's conveniently ignoring the fact that the "new exciting freedom group" have run the quality and reputation of the products into the ground, see for reference: current production remington and marlin guns.
 
#75
Bevan said:
I read it, he's conveniently ignoring the fact that the "new exciting freedom group" have run the quality and reputation of the products into the ground, see for reference: current production remington and marlin guns.
Click to expand...

My comments in this thread were specifically limited to the GII, which seems to indicate a new trend in the Freedom Group conglomerate.

I am well aware of legacy DPMS, Remington, and Bushmaster QC issues. Those problems were there before Freedom Group came along. I've learned to regard DPMS as rack-grade vismod quality, meaning they kinda look like AR15's and AR10's, but are nothing of the sort.

Remington is well known for cranking out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday guns for decades. Reference the trail of tears of Remington headspace on the 700, bores that look like they were made with a rock instead of a nice button, angled receiver and bolt faces, one lug bearing in the action, etc.

What I have heard from very reliable sources in the industry is that Freedom Group is killing Marlin, but I have zero first-hand experience with that.

What may be happening is a changing of the guard with professionally-selected, formally-trained and proven professionals brought in by Freedom Group to address and improve QC in some of the product lines, but that's just speculation on my part.

It certainly hasn't shown on the "Bushmaster" product line. I saw a guy just the other day bring in a "Bushmaster" 24" varmint AR15 with the Bushmaster Snake engraved in the DPMS Panther Arms styled font, with Ilion New York as the place of manufacture (Remington's plant). The bolt carrier group had "D" stamped on the side, so we know it isn't a Bushmaster. The guy said he was getting great accuracy, but the gun was short-stroking. The shop checked the gas port diameter, which was .094", and the gas block was properly aligned, but the gun still short-stroked with brass-cased ammunition.

Couldn't find any leaks in the carrier key junction, and there wasn't carbon fouling in the fire control group, so I think the bolt tail/carrier interface was fine.

Again, one of the reasons I don't buy factory guns, and haven't for years and years. You simply can't trust them to get it right, at least for what I do.

So my point is that what I'm seeing with the GII gives me hope that there is a new possible trend with this organization, but I am well aware that you can hope in one hand, and crap in the other, and see which one fills up the fastest...time will tell.
 
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#79
LRRPF52 said:
My comments in this thread were specifically limited to the GII, which seems to indicate a new trend in the Freedom Group conglomerate.

I am well aware of legacy DPMS, Remington, and Bushmaster QC issues. Those problems were there before Freedom Group came along. I've learned to regard DPMS as rack-grade vismod quality, meaning they kinda look like AR15's and AR10's, but are nothing of the sort.

Remington is well known for cranking out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday guns for decades. Reference the trail of tears of Remington headspace on the 700, bores that look like they were made with a rock instead of a nice button, angled receiver and bolt faces, one lug bearing in the action, etc.

What I have heard from very reliable sources in the industry is that Freedom Group is killing Marlin, but I have zero first-hand experience with that.

What may be happening is a changing of the guard with professionally-selected, formally-trained and proven professionals brought in by Freedom Group to address and improve QC in some of the product lines, but that's just speculation on my part.

It certainly hasn't shown on the "Bushmaster" product line. I saw a guy just the other day bring in a "Bushmaster" 24" varmint AR15 with the Bushmaster Snake engraved in the DPMS Panther Arms styled font, with Ilion New York as the place of manufacture (Remington's plant). The bolt carrier group had "D" stamped on the side, so we know it isn't a Bushmaster. The guy said he was getting great accuracy, but the gun was short-stroking. The shop checked the gas port diameter, which was .094", and the gas block was properly aligned, but the gun still short-stroked with brass-cased ammunition.

Couldn't find any leaks in the carrier key junction, and there wasn't carbon fouling in the fire control group, so I think the bolt tail/carrier interface was fine.

Again, one of the reasons I don't buy factory guns, and haven't for years and years. You simply can't trust them to get it right, at least for what I do.

So my point is that what I'm seeing with the GII gives me hope that there is a new possible trend with this organization, but I am well aware that you can hope in one hand, and crap in the other, and see which one fills up the fastest...time will tell.
Click to expand...

I like factory guns from a reputable maker - different in the AR market where quality off-the-shelf parts make an in-spec custom build feasible for a good price, but for a bolt action I prefer to buy a high end factory gun and save the headache of dealing with gunsmiths for very little real gain

RE: the Gen 2, I hold high hopes but am sceptical. I will not be an early adopter.
 
#80
elfster1234 said:
I went to my local gun shop today and they had both the .308 recon and sass in the new G2 line. Wow, did they ever shave off some serious weight off the G2 models! I was impressed and the fit and finish was really nice. The sass was very nice and weighed much less than the original.
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I'm not sure which Recon I got. I bought it last July for $1299.88 from Cabelas. It must the older model. It is a lot nicer the RRA-308. Cabelas still these on sell for $1299.88.
DPMS Recon Semiautomatic Tactical Rifles : Cabela's
 
#83
I sent them a msg about these in a 6.5CM. The reply said if the .308 rifles do well, they plan to offer them in 6.5CM for sure. The Gen2 in 6.5CM could possibly be a good entry rig for a gas gun. Hopefully it doesn't take long to get the ball rolling on them.
 
#86
Ok, shot my G2 SASS today. Only had 40 rounds available and had to do my break in procedure. I'm not posting pics of groups. All I had was Winchester white box 7.62x51 for the break in.

The gun shot great. The trigger is nice and the gun functioned 100% perfect. No feeding or extraction issues whatsoever and the bolt locked back on a empty mag every time. The brass fell about 15ft back on my 4 o'clock and stayed within about a 3 foot circle. Some of the spent brass had a small flat spot on the throat, I'd say maybe half (if that) of the 40 rounds had it but it's not bad enough the brass isn't reloadable and some of the spots are barely visible.
 
#89
Went to the range again today. I have a total of 80 rounds through this gun now with 0 malfunctions of any kind. I'm getting 2547fps average out of the 18" barrel with Hornady 168gr HPBT match ammo. Here's a pic of a 5 shot group at 100 yards. Keep in mind I am a total noob at long range/precision shooting. I'm pretty sure 95% of you can shoot better than me. I'm still learning and have a long way to go but I guess I got lucky with this group! These were rounds 45-50 on the barrel so it's still not broke in yet.


5 shots 100 yards with Hornady 168gr HPBT match ammo.
 
#90
If one were going to swap out the trigger on one of these, which would work? The prior DPMS 308 (LR-308) used standard small pin AR triggers. Is that the same here? Has anyone sussed out the technical details of swapping components on these yet?
 
#91
If one were going to swap out the trigger on one of these, which would work? The prior DPMS 308 (LR-308) used standard small pin AR triggers. Is that the same here? Has anyone sussed out the technical details of swapping components on these yet?
 
#92
If one were going to swap out the trigger on one of these, which would work? The prior DPMS 308 (LR-308) used standard small pin AR triggers. Is that the same here? Has anyone sussed out the technical details of swapping components on these yet?
 
#93
If one were going to swap out the trigger on one of these, which would work? The prior DPMS 308 (LR-308) used standard small pin AR triggers. Is that the same here? Has anyone sussed out the technical details of swapping components on these yet?
 
#94
Looks like you got a shooter! Thats awesome and ill bet money it will get even better once fully broke in and you get more used to shooting the rifle! More rifle pics plz!


Cranedaddy said:
Went to the range again today. I have a total of 80 rounds through this gun now with 0 malfunctions of any kind. I'm getting 2547fps average out of the 18" barrel with Hornady 168gr HPBT match ammo. Here's a pic of a 5 shot group at 100 yards. Keep in mind I am a total noob at long range/precision shooting. I'm pretty sure 95% of you can shoot better than me. I'm still learning and have a long way to go but I guess I got lucky with this group! These were rounds 45-50 on the barrel so it's still not broke in yet.


5 shots 100 yards with Hornady 168gr HPBT match ammo.
Click to expand...
 
#95
2manygunz said:
If one were going to swap out the trigger on one of these, which would work? The prior DPMS 308 (LR-308) used standard small pin AR triggers. Is that the same here? Has anyone sussed out the technical details of swapping components on these yet?
Click to expand...

Can you say that one more time?

You should be able to use any AR trigger.
 
#96
Cobracutter said:
Can you say that one more time?

You should be able to use any AR trigger.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. The big selling point as I read it is that these models will be able to use off-the-shelf AR parts for customization. The prior DPMS model used standard AR triggers; I wanted to know if that was also the case with these. I look forward to taking one apart in the future. :)
 
#98
No pics, however I can give you a quick range report as my SASS came in this week and I took it out today. I ran it with the out-of-the-box set up and put a Leupold M6 3-18 CMR on top. Here are my first impressions:

Sent 20 rounds M118LR-type down range. While I was focusing on site in more than accuracy, I still produced a 4 inch group at 200yds using only the Harris bipod that comes with the SASS version. I doubt this is the rifle's limits. With some bags, a different reticle, and a better shooter(!), I suspect it could be quite accurate indeed.

During the session, I noticed only two things of potential concern. First is that this rifle seems hard on brass. The extractor leaves raised marks on the head and the bottleneck comes out deformed (in some cases squared or dented). I don't reload, so I can't judge how big a deal this might be for someone that does.

Second, I had one inexplicable situation where the bolt got stuck back in the buffer tube. I had to start taking the upper off at the front pin before it popped free. I couldn't reproduce it, and it didn't happen again, so I'm not really sure what caused it. Having inspected all the parts, I am not concerned that there's a spec or manufacturing issue. I will look for it again, however I'm not losing sleep over it at the moment.

Likes:

* Soft-shooting 308! The felt recoil on the SASS is light, despite the lighter weight from the Gen 1. No excuse for developing a flinch behind this one.

* Tight fit and finish. No movement or play between the upper and lower, yet the take down pins are useable with just hand force. Well done.

* Plenty of rail to suit any optics or accessories you choose.

Dislikes:

* Trigger. This is a matter of personal preference and I'd like something lighter. There's little creep in the factory trigger, however it takes what feels like increasing force to break. To be clear: this is not a complaint. The trigger is crisp and works fine. Just too heavy for my taste.

* Bipod choice. Harris bipods are great kit; I just don't see why you wouldn't outfit this rifle with a rail-mounting bipod. Further, this is a higher model than I would normally choose, so I'll likely replace it with something more to my liking.

* No variable/adjustable gas block. This is a tough complaint at the price point for these rifles. That said, putting a can on this rifle sent a lot of gas back into the face (and may have contributed to the bolt-in-buffer problem I experienced). An adjustable block, or something like what's on a LaRue would be a great refinement.

Overall, if you want a semi-auto for 308, I'm not sure how you beat these rifles right now on "bang for the buck". Light, manageable, accurate and seemingly well made all for $1,800. The math adds up to one heck of a package.

Now, since folks will probably ask: the Leupy M6 3-18 with CMR reticle is a great optic. Crystal clear glass that didn't noticeably darken even at full magnification. Very firm turret and magnification controls. Simple zeroing process. If you want to complain, you might ding it for not having the illumination of the 1-6, but I'll live without it just fine.

One complaint I've read is that the FFP makes the reticle "useless" at high magnification. I'll humbly disagree. You still have the full reticle at almost 8X, and still have BDC and wind out to almost 600 meters at 18X. Given that this is a silhouette reticle, 8X is plenty of magnification even at longer distances. Again, IMHO.

Hope these notes help.
 
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#99
Here's Mine - Green Monster

Just received mine a few days before having to head back to work overseas last week. I installed Magpul OD furniture , Vortex Razor HP 5-20x50 EBR2 (MRAD) scope on a 35mm AADMOUNT, GG&G bipod, and SpecWar 762 suppressor. I also replaced the standard carbine spring and buffer with the JP AR-10 Silent Captured Spring Buffer (checked w/JP first - they said it will work). Didn't have time to get to the range with it, and the weather sucked while I was on days off. I'll let you know how she handles after I send a few down the pipe.



 

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#100
oldschoolcool said:
Just received mine a few days before having to head back to work overseas last week. I installed Magpul OD furniture , Vortex Razor HP 5-20x50 EBR2 (MRAD) scope on a 35mm AADMOUNT, GG&G bipod, and SpecWar 762 suppressor. I also replaced the standard carbine spring and buffer with the JP AR-10 Silent Captured Spring Buffer (checked w/JP first - they said it will work). Didn't have time to get to the range with it, and the weather sucked while I was on days off. I'll let you know how she handles after I send a few down the pipe.



Click to expand...

Badass stick. I want one of these badly!
 
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