Honest Opinion on home defense rifle

[mrtoyz]

I vote a big ass vicious dog

 

[ut755ln]

I vote a big ass vicious dog

So does the AF trainer. After listening to my issues, the trainer thought that a GSD was probably the right answer for us. I put a deposit on a dog that he is going to work with for a couple of months. This dog will not be one of those insanely trained protection dogs, it will more be a family pet that is well trained in basic obedience. The AF trainer says that the dogs he is getting from the Czech Republic are going to be a little more territorial and protective than domestic lines. He also says in general, not always that GSD tend to be more vocal than some of the other shepherds.

 

[Bluedog82]

So does the AF trainer. After listening to my issues, the trainer thought that a GSD was probably the right answer for us. I put a deposit on a dog that he is going to work with for a couple of months. This dog will not be one of those insanely trained protection dogs, it will more be a family pet that is well trained in basic obedience. The AF trainer says that the dogs he is getting from the Czech Republic are going to be a little more territorial and protective than domestic lines. He also says in general, not always that GSD tend to be more vocal than some of the other shepherds.

Good plan OP. I know my GSD (a total wuss) is definitely a barker at anything she finds suspicious and it certainly sounds intimidating. You made a good choice of dog…those Belgians are excellent animals but damn they’re like a live grenade, ready to explode any second.

 

[mrtoyz]

So does the AF trainer. After listening to my issues, the trainer thought that a GSD was probably the right answer for us. I put a deposit on a dog that he is going to work with for a couple of months. This dog will not be one of those insanely trained protection dogs, it will more be a family pet that is well trained in basic obedience. The AF trainer says that the dogs he is getting from the Czech Republic are going to be a little more territorial and protective than domestic lines. He also says in general, not always that GSD tend to be more vocal than some of the other shepherds.

Great plan.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I think my DI put it all very well. A pistol is what you use in order to fight your way to your rifle.

In my case, the long gun would be a 20ga S/G with #3 buck.

I count on never seeing those firearms ever again afterward. Purchase accordingly.

Greg

 

[Convex]

"I think my DI put it all very well. A pistol is what you use in order to fight your way to your rifle."...........


The BEST thing I read on this forum in years......

I'll add what my father who was both a WarVet and a LEO who rose to upper management, told me years ago before he passed away,

He told me the cemetery is full of guys who were bigger/faster/stronger/smarter/w/the biggest and the best guns and what killed them was overestimating themselves and underestimating everybody else.

I will NEVER undestimate anyone as long as l live.

Ask Putin about fucking over Ukraine in 2 days.

 

[The King]

"I think my DI put it all very well. A pistol is what you use in order to fight your way to your rifle."...........


The BEST thing I read on this forum in years......

I'll add what my father who was both a WarVet and a LEO who rose to upper management, told me years ago before he passed away,

He told me the cemetery is full of guys who were bigger/faster/stronger/smarter/w/the biggest and the best guns and what killed them was overestimating themselves and underestimating everybody else.

I will NEVER undestimate anyone as long as l live.

Ask Putin about fucking over Ukraine in 2 days.

And luck. Bad luck. I would be dead right now if it weren't for good luck, and bad luck is just the coin landing tails.

I'm going to add that shit training is very common. And by shit training, I mean that people focus on the wrong thing when they go to the range and it leaves them almost no more prepared for a fight then if they hadn't gone at all.

Here is an example - shot timers or saying "GO!" to start a drill. I don't do that at all...if a shot timer is needed I silence the beep. Drills start with the sound of gunfire from my blank firing AR15. You should pretty much always do SOMETHING other than stand there with thumb in asshole when you hear gunfire in public.

When we show up at the range, after targets are setup and walls and stuff we go straight into a high stress response drill. Weapons handling and marksmanship type stuff is trained after drills. No warmups - grab that thing and go. It allows for a baseline. Then at the end of the session the high stress response drill is run again.

Eh. Enough on this. I think the OP got the answers he needed.

 

[carbonbased]

So garden gnomes full of tannerite are a go. Check…

I found this to be quite humorous. But how about placing the “T-gnomes” around the inside of your house!

I suppose you could remote control blow them up too lol.

Makes me think of Die Hard for some reason. German baddies & fucking tripwires everywhere bro!!!

This is a joke. Do not do this you moron.

 

[houndog]

Yes, Czech working lines sounds like a good choice. The Czech and DDR dogs tend to be less high drive, but better defensive drive. And they are big boned solid looking dogs.

One word of caution, training is a perishable skill. That means that even though the dog comes to you with training, you need to keep up that training or his skills will start to fade. And I think some of the DDR dogs can be pretty dominant. Doing training with the dog will help reinforce your position as pack leader. So, when feeding time comes, dog must obey your command to sit or down before he gets fed. Dog wants to go outside, he must sit in front of the door, wait for you to open it, and then receive your permission before going through. And spouse needs to do this too. Not to be sexist, but some women can have difficulty being assertive. You don't want a situation where your dog thinks he's in charge of your wife, and instead of her disciplining the dog the dog starts "disciplining" her.

 

[TurboTrout]

Also, you may already know this, but the malinois and Dutch shepherd breeds are very closely related. Malinois were actually bred with Dutch shepherds after ww2 to help save the breed from dying off, and there is a lot of mixture between the two. Whatever we say about a malinois dog also applies for Dutch shepherds.

Plus tons of “highly trained” police dogs go and bite random people, not only is that a shitty thing to let happen as a human, if you don’t have qualified immunity that can get spendy

Ideally for me a dog just alerts

 

[Bigfatcock]

Just an observation, we used this film on all of the front windows of our small airport terminal back when the new TSA and armed National Guard were in fashion. The stuff is very effective. It's purpose for us was to prevent a bomb outside the terminal sending glass shards into the public areas. At the demonstration, we got to wail on it with sledge hammers and watched them shoot a 4 x 4 out of an air gun into the stuff. The glass broke but nothing got through it.

As far as notifying the fire department, we are used to having lexan windows in houses and commercial buildings now so we quickly move to carbide rotary saws now if it doesn't break with an axe. HDF is pretty up to date and I imaagine they run into it for hurricane proofing buildings. An unforseen issue is getting out in a hurry if there is a fire but you just plan around it.

Didn’t know that about the fire department. Thanks for the info!

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I thought they were called bootie traps….

Bootie traps, that’s what I said!

 

[Didodadday]

I just searched 3M and it came right up

 

[Convex]

Proud of this gun.

So when I can't get to my biggest and the baddest, I can still back up my mojo w/a BTN gun.

BTN-----Better than nothing

When it comes to the "fight UR way to your rifle" characterization/everywhere inside/outside the home, I've carried this for more than a decade.

Yes, there's plenty of semi-autos w/a smaller "footprint" and more onboard ammo. The argument's been over 4 me a long time ago when this gun saved my life,

It's part of me, will always be part of me, which I carry w/2 jetloads. The Hogue grip is a must have for this, making it comfortable for the load I carry in this gun.

I had this gun for years, until a couple of my neighbors who were outside when it went down, were in utter shock at me pointing this at the guy running from my front porch and then gunning his engine down the street. They told me until then they had never associated me w/having a gun. Fine w/me.

When the Sun goes down......


Time for the HK P2000SK w/green laser/light in a clinger holster. HK has a metal "pinky extension" for the SK that's perfect for my grip.

 

[benchmstr]

I have a 12.5” sbr 556 with frangibles for home defense.

I would never depend on a handgun for home defense because I am not being outgunned in my own home

 

[Convex]

I would, and did, and what I did w/what I had saved my life, it worked, repeat, worked, so I'll stand pat on my system.

You can throw out the 2 words "a handgun" when it comes to my HD.

I don't depend on a handgun 4 HD, I depend on 4 shotguns, 2 rifles and 6 handguns in addition to the 2 pictured above, one of which is always on me. Plus around 125 rds. of ammo before I have to reload as all this has already been covered in the earlier part of the discussion.

 

[Baron23]

Yes when it comes to common building materials for your standard American home (stick and frame) pistol and shotgun projectiles have a proven and repeatable reputation for penetrating farther than most 5.56 of your typical variety by a fare margin.

It baffles me that this still isn’t common knowledge by this point, there’s a bunch of reasons LE started switching to carbines over subguns and shottys in the 90s but one of those is these projectiles penetrating multiple interior walls and even exiting exterior.

Edit: it’s not that 5.56 won’t over penetrate but it’s typically less.

WTF? Shotgun shells come in a huge variety of loads and speeds.

Please explain to me how an 1 1/4 oz load of anything from 2’s to BBB’s (or even T’s) at 1200-1300 fps are going to penetrate typical housing construction more than a 75 gr pointed, jacketed, projectile going at least twice as fast (and more likely faster than that).

And there are lots of dead geese (tough to penetrate especially if flying away and shooting them in the back) that will attest to the deadliness of these type loads.

Personally, I think using 00 buck shot (with what…9 pieces of approx .38 cal sized projectiles) defeats the purpose using a shotgun for home defense FOR THE TYPICAL HOMEOWNER (which leaves most of us out).

I believe we are talking home defense as in down a hallway or room and not shooting a deer at 50 yds.

Just my view…carry on.

 

[Bluedog82]

I have a 12.5” sbr 556 with frangibles for home defense.

I would never depend on a handgun for home defense because I am not being outgunned in my own home

I wouldn’t depend on a frangible round either

 

[6.5SH]

Lead BB 12 ga

#4 Buck, generally considered the minimum for social uses

Classic 9 pellet #00 Buckshot, note that's two 18" blocks

Hornady 75 gr BTHP TAP round

 

[hlee]

https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls.310/

There’s a bunch of articles where the author puts guns and ammo up against drywall.

For those looking for Cliff’s Notes, walls stop bird shot, and that’s about it.

 

[Rudy Gonsior]

WTF? Shotgun shells come in a huge variety of loads and speeds.

Please explain to me how an 1 1/4 oz load of anything from 2’s to BBB’s (or even T’s) at 1200-1300 fps are going to penetrate typical housing construction more than a 75 gr pointed projectile going at least twice as fast (and more likely faster than that).

And there are lots of dead geese (tough to penetrate especially if flying away and shooting them in the back) that will attest to the deadliness of these type loads.

Personally, I think using 00 buck shot (with what…9 pieces of approx .38 cal sized projectiles) defeats the purpose using a shotgun for home defense FOR THE TYPICAL HOMEOWNER (which leaves most of us out).

I believe we are talking home defense as in down a hallway or room and not shooting a deer at 50 yds.

Just my view…carry on.

Ok so for your benefit and the benefit of others I’ll try to hit the wave tops of shotgun projectiles vs. high velocity rifle projectiles in context to close combat engagements like home defense.

Quick background, I am not a SME on terminal ballistics in the sense that I wear a lab coat, I am more of an end user. Instead of a white coat, I’ve worn a silly green hat for the better part of the last 20 years. My interest in terminal ballistics is professional, in that I simply want to insure that I am providing the American people the greatest amount of lethality for their investment.

I have killed a fair number of people personally and seen even more done in close proximity to others which although anecdotal, mirrors much of the prevalent research on terminal ballistics over the past couple of decades. I’ve also participated in good number of medical labs using organic modes of various types designed to replicate common ballistic wounds. These labs are often guided by doctors and surgeons who’ve seen and collected some pretty large amounts of data on the matter.

So let’s start with shotguns. Bird shot is out for home defense. FULL STOP.

Birdshot - (anything smaller than say #4) is incapable of reliably providing terminal penetration to the parts of body that are actually show stoppers. Consequently it also isn’t very good penetrating much of anything which is oddly why it seems to be so often recommended for HD. I know there are some very prominent and influential people in the gun industry that promote this concept but I want to remind everyone that we’re engaging with deadly force. Deadly force is that force which a reasonable or prudent person would consider likely to create a high or substantial risk of death or severe bodily harm. Birdshot is not that.

Buckshot - the most common HD load out is actually a pretty vague term. Most marketed (and thus cited) loads are 00 buckshot. If you google defensive shotgun loads 99% of these loads are slugs, 000, or 00 buckshot. The reason being is this provides an extremely adequate performance that will easily provide penetrating to appropriate thresholds. AKA it’s lethal as fuck.

Problem with this is of course over penetrating the target or deep penetration of structural materials when you miss. I hesitate to really call it a problem because it’s just physics, those projectiles are just doing exactly what we asked them to do. You cant have good terminal performance on human with also risking “excessive” penetration of and individual or anything beyond them.

High Velocity Rifles - (specifically .223/5.55 ish rifles) unarguably provide lethality the same as any projectile, deep penetration to organs that are critical. Of course the big notable difference being that they are designed to perform this task at distance and hence tend to take a long pointy form factor that’s very different than spherical buckshot.

Besides looking different, they also perform differently when traveling (striking) through different medium. With these small pointy high velocity projectiles, they are traveling in flight with a differential of their center of gravity and center of pressure that’s significantly more that spherical buckshot.

In layman’s terms pretend that the center of pressure is always trying to get close to the center of gravity or maybe better thought of as the center of the projectiles center of mass. In rifle bullets the center of pressure is at the front end of the projectile during flight while the center of gravity/mass is located in the back half. This creates an unstable situation that wants to equalize but the gyroscopic spin prevents this.

However…on transitioning mediums (strike a flesh or the wall beyond), that balance is disrupted and produces yaw in the projectile. The projectile will begin to turn on its side as the center of pressure attempts to equalize with the center of gravity/mass. This shifting places the center of pressure along the medial axis of the projectile. With long (for caliber) projectiles like we commonly see in .223/5.56 defensive/combative loads (60-77gr), if the projectiles velocity is above a given threshold (eg. close range engagements), that pressure will break/fragment the projectile into many smaller pieces and quickly dissipate energy and greatly reduced any further penetration.

Now consider the buckshot, it’s spherical nature is far from optimal in term of aerodynamic performance. However what it lacks in efficiency, it makes up for in consistency. You can turn a buckshot any which way and the relationship between center of pressure and the of gravity never really change. Even transitioning mediums, you might see some deformation of the projectiles but it’s pretty insignificant in the structure scheme at the comparatively slower speeds. This means these heavyweight shot projects tend to carry energy much more consistently at these close ranges than long pointy high velocity rifle projectiles.

 

[Rudy Gonsior]

I wouldn’t depend on a frangible round either

Yeah there’s wide range of frangible, with the exception of Mk255 and some specific scenarios (VBSS) I’d be hesitant to rely on frangible munitions.

 

[Convex]

If you're in a room confronted by somebody who broke into your home and your rifle isn't right there w/you, you're outgunned by a KNIFE.


Do you spend year after year, going through every room in your home, and/or outside for a picnic w/visiting relatives and friends holding a rifle in your hands/on a sling. What do U do when you eat breakfast, eat w/one hand.

That's what you're going to have to do to keep UR rifle wherever you are to counter whatever threat shows up because NOBODY gets to pick when they're attacked/your home is broken into.


There's more normalcy, finesse, concealment, and a "keep 'em guessing" aspect to doing this w/a handgun and I mean year after year protecting yourself EVERYWHERE you go in your house w/a weapon that becomes unobtrusive in whatever holster/pocket holster you pack.

Consider this, the difference between your handgun and your rifle may not be the difference THAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE when you're attacked/your house is broken into.

The fact that my immediate reaction was to be agressive/draw and get the drop on this guy w/my 357, he resorted to flight. I don't know what he had because he never reached into his pocket. He was too busy running.


It's ain't the biggest hole, it's the 1st hole.



I OUTGUNNED THIS GUY WHATEVER HE HAD ON HIM CUZ I HAD THE DROP ON HIM. Everybody wants to be holding a CANNON when the time comes, but the handgun came through 4 me.


That can/will get ridiculous on several levels. I don't go out to get the mail/dump trash/wash my car/talk w/my neighbor holding one of my rifles or shotguns, or w/it slung over my shoulder, because you're showing your "hand" to everybody.

The WarVet folks in my family don't do that either, they do what folks have already suggested in this discussion, which is carry a concealed weapon they take EVERYWHERE in/around/outside the home, so that NOBODY knows what they've got, yet it's there, regardless of where their rifle/rifles are to defend themselves, and/or as one gentleman has suggested in this discussion, to use to fight their way to their rifles.

Some folks use another system, where they store/hide weapons around/all over the house. if that works 4 them, so be it, but walking around the house/outside the house, in front of relatives/friends/neighbors/cops patrolling the area......... w/a rifle. No way........at least 4 me or anybody I know. Out in the country, yes I can see it, but not in an urban area.



There's a boatload of guys that have more guns than I do, but the fact is I've got 12 weapons ready for the defense of my home, 2 being AR 10's/7.62 rifles. not the one short barrel 5.56 you're relying on, so w/all due respect, a guy w/one gun is the last guy I'm taking advice from on how not to be outgunned..



What do you reach for when your one gun jams and you can't clear it.

 

[Convex]

Reinforcements from out of the safe, getting "some fresh air".


I hesitate to change the mix I have out now for HD w/2 semi-autos and 2 pumps. Pumps are pretty dependable although you can still jam one w/a short stroke. Semi autos have gotten more dependable, and if I replace my pumps for HD it would probably be w/the Rem VM R12 Police guns instead of one of the Benelli's.

I LOVE the Remington VM R12 police gun, because despite Remington having been a mess the last few years, the R12's a sweet gun, and w/take straight "drop in" parts from the Benelli. Straight drop in guts from the Benelli.

 

[ELCO82]

Fudds.....

 

[ut755ln]

Another update.

1) We have updated the home alarm system. We have sensors on every window and door on the ground floor and the system operates for up to 48 hours without main power.
2) We expanded the camera system and now have a wall mounted computer monitor in the bedroom that has all of the cameras feeding into it.
3) We have laser detection systems at the property lines, it is tough to cross it without setting it off. ( a not horrible beep, kind of an early warning to look at the monitor and camera feeds).
4) In addition to our outdoor lighting, we have installed several motion activated solar floods on the house.
5) We replaced the door of the master bedroom and it is locking. If someone is determined you could still get through but it would absolutely slow someone down.
6) I took some more forum advice and I now have better access to firearms both up and downstairs. None of it is just laying out in the open but we kind of timed how long it takes to get to a weapon from when an alert goes off and it is very quick. I am comfortable with this setup as we no longer have any small children in the house.
7) We bought the female GSD, to try and give a fair and accurate description of the dog. It is a female 2nd generation from Czech working lines. In this litter she was not aggressive enough for military or police work and was classified as better suited for a companion. Of the litter, she is far and away the most vocal of the puppies (4 months old). She already knows basic commands and we will pick her up sometime between seven or eight months old.
8) We had a couple of big glass doors on the back of the house and we are having the 3M film installed on them. It worked well on the front door so why not.
9) I now have 700 rounds down range with the MK 18. I was mostly doing drills inside of 25 yards with my son. He would load 10 mags with 2 to 7 rounds and would force me to practice dropping a mag and reload and getting back on target with a timer. It may be my eyes but the only thing I really don't like is the Aimpoint T2. I think I am going to switch to something that is easier for me to pick up quickly (with my eyes). He is suggesting the Eotech holo and I am going to try it this week.

 

[femadog]

Sounds like a great follow through plan. I'm sure some will pick on some things but you are miles ahead of most folks, even in known higher risk crime areas.

FYI I had a T2 based on a lot of recommendations but ended up with the EoTech HWS EXPS2. Certainly a little bulkier but quicker for me to acquire. Still a little starry with my astigmatism but it works for close up and I can flip up the rear back up peep to get rid of the blur on longer shots.

Good luck

 

[Convex]

Yes; 2nd this. Sounds like a great plan. Well thought out.

Also 2nd the EOTECH which I've got. My eyes were terrible (astigmatism/cataracts), but even after my implant surgeries I still have the EOTECH on one of the 870 pumps.

It's a big window. The zero for 7yrds/21 feet is the bottom of the circle on my 870 pump. Anything closer and you're tipping the muzzle down to line up the circle w/center mass.

Achilles heel is battery life (it'll start blinking w/low), bulky, and it's expensive, but worth it if your eyesight needs help. After you shoot enough w/it, even if the battery dies, you'll just know where to line things up in the window.

Intiuitive, FEELS RIGHT. Very very quick acuisition.

YES......Good luck to you and your family.

 

[supercorndogs]

With property/moving and buying new houses and such being *really* expensive with no guarantee you aren't moving to another hot spot, my advice is to invest in hardening the home you already own. Probably cheaper than moving. You can make it virtually impenetrable and bullet proof - as The Republic crashes this shit is going to become very common even in places we would expect to be relatively safe. Home invasions are rising exponentially and it'll likely get worse, not better, in the near future.

I have not had issues where I am yet the house is hard, the doors are always locked, and both of us are always armed (even when taking out the trash, cutting the grass, cleaning etc.) with back up weapons and reloads scattered thru the house. There are no kids here (ever) so we have a small advantage that way. No idea what I'd do if there were kids around because if you look closely there is a pistol within 6' virtually anywhere in the house - especially basements and bathrooms.

Harden the home you have is my advice. And arm yourself.....and train. Hire professionals to help you get the place hardened if needed. Suppressors on primary weapons unless, like me, you can't legally own them, and then hearing protection close at hand. There are muffs all over and in-the-ear stuff on every key ring.

If you make the house hard and use lighting and fencing to best advantage many BG's are gonna go across the street to avoid being shot/caught. Keep all signs of affluence hidden. Sorry.....parking a $100K automobile on the street or exposed will be seen by people you don't want seeing it. We use basic handguns and have M4's, 9mm PCC, and shotguns and my grab it and go is a 20" barrel 20 gauge double barrel with buckshot sitting in the kitchen out of sight between stove and 'fridge backed with my 9mm Beretta PX4's.

Good luck to the OP. I'd not move - I'd just harden the home you own and buckle up as we have done here.

VooDoo

What my parents did was teach us about guns. What you do, what don't do, how to use them, how not to use them. When we could touch them and when we couldn't.

 

[ELCO82]

I'll parrot giving eotech a try. It's bulkier but much faster for me. Don't forget to practice with a weapon light and sling. I'm absolutely in love with the new surefire 300 Turbo on my handgun. It's the perfect amount of lumens and candela. It's my understanding they are expanding the concept to their rifle lights as well.

 

[supercorndogs]

I thought they were called bootie traps….

Bootie traps, that’s what I said!

I would be quite easy to trap with boobies or bootie.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

No idea what I'd do if there were kids around because if you look closely there is a pistol within 6' virtually anywhere in the house

Teach the kids how to use them and make sure they know where they are, duh..

 

[ut755ln]

One more thing of interest, we are putting a sign up on the property that says something like "Property under surveillance, no Trespassing." The no trespassing is the important part of the sign. In Texas, the law says that for trespassing to be a crime there is a burden on the property owner to notify. The burden includes, telling people. Having your property completely fenced, having clear boundaries and painting them purple (trees, stakes, ect) and a no trespassing sign. If you own a home with a fence on the sides and in your back yard but not front, it is likely not going to be criminal trespassing without the sign.

 

[Convex]

I'm sure your son will run down the Eotech Holographic sight w/you. There's a boatload of videos from different folks on how to zero the sight but there's a reference video from Eotech which I think is best in terms of clarity demonstrating how to zero for for 7 yds. since you're setting up for home defense.'

Initially you might think you'd want to zero by lining up your boresight in the center of the circle, but at 7yrds. because of the height of the sight above the bore, you're too close to do that. To account for the offset, you're lining up at the bottom of the circle.

Some folks have astigmatism so bad they can't stand the way the reticle looks so you definitely want to spend time looking thru one to see if it's what you can live with......

how to boresight your eotech video - Search Videos

www.bing.com

 

[houndog]

OP - congrats on your new dog. She sounds like she's going to be a "talker".. I have a sable girl from West German working lines that I love to death.

And Eotech is a solid choice of optic so long as you're mindful of the shorter battery life. Almost zero parallax error, very fast to pick up dot and circle, and, as someone who has an astigmatism, I find them better than Aimpoints, but everyone is different on this.

 

[TurboTrout]

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Why not HSTs?

 

[r.tenorio671]

...to the OP, your mitigation efforts are laudable and certainly much better than previous, kudos. You have identified that larger "window" type RDS work better for you, as well as the shortcoming of the battery life for the product you currently own. Incorporating a routine of swapping of the batteries would mitigate that issue, although technology has improved/advanced where other "window type" products are available with longer battery life and "shake awake" activation that you could investigate.

...on a trip to the Philippines I was surprised to see some of the walls around some "mid-upper scale" communities. Many were 10 ft+ high, topped with barbed or concertina wire, even the drive-way gates. The real surprising ones also had electrical wiring (ala "cattle control"), consisting of multiple strands. A friend also told me some had electrical wiring on the inside of the wall in a "L" shape configuration as mitigation for those more "adventurous" thieves that might try to scale the walls. The common aspect of the walls were they were all solid to obstruct view of the interior areas from the adjacent roadway, even the driveway gate(s).

 

[FuhQ]

Here's what I keep handy...

7.5” 5.56 with a Sandman-S on it.

 

[91Eunozs]

A lot depends on the neighborhood you live in. If it's a dangerous area where you may have 3 or 4 gangbangers busting in I would go with a shotgun. If it's a safe low crime area I would go with a 9mm handgun or a 38/357 revolver.

The last on my list would be an AR. The 223/556 can go through your walls and your neighbors with no problem. That could very well cost you your life savings and your freedom.

An AR would make a good option in a rural or farm area. Not in the city or a suburban area.

So much misinformation here, I almost don’t know where to start.

EDIT: Caught up w/the rest of the thread and see most of the points re: weapon selection already covered.


What works for me personally: I have a little 5-shot ‘airweight-Ti‘ S&W .38 pistol on me almost all the time, I literally forget I have it on me sometimes. Keep a suppressed G21 in a biometric safe bolted to my side of the bed, but that’s just to get me to one of my ARs not in the safe…currently a 9” 300BLK with a small TBAC-5 can on one of my SBR’d lowers:

Re: home hardening: We moved to a gated community with a manned gate a few years ago because we didn’t like the fact that anyone could just drive into our neighborhood; had issues with folks coming in and casing homes then breaking in in our old neighborhood. I know it’s not a real security measure, but it is one more layer. Our house is on top of a ridgeline two miles from the entrance too. House is almost 300’ off the street with tons of landscape lighting and motion-activated floods on all corners plus cameras.

We also have two dogs; border collie mix…very friendly, but also extremely alert 24/7. Nothing approaches our home without us being alerted.

Basic home alarm system, but all exterior windows are 3M filmed (get an insurance break with that too btw), and all exterior doors have double locks and 3” screws for all attachment points.

We have a double front door, so trying to figure out a way to add one of these, or something similar without screwing up the tile work or looking completely like ass:

If anyone has any good ideas for that, please let me know.

Still need to add some defensive landscaping to the back yard inside the fence (6’ tall steel pipe hog fencing), and more motion-activated lighting out along the back fence line. Considering making the steel fence a solid rock wall on the side facing the cross street…but not a huge priority.

 

[AngryKoala]

Here's what I keep handy...

7.5” 5.56 with a Sandman-S on it.

View attachment 7964545
View attachment 7964544

Probably would choose a different caliber going that short.

 

[ut755ln]

Another shorter update mostly about the MK 18.

This is completely a personal preference kind of thing. I switched out the grip in stock for the B5 and I put on a two point sling. I now have 300 rounds down range with the EOTECH and it just works better for me, much easier for me to pick up the big circle and get on target quickly. The can is about 60 days away so plenty of time for me to keep practicing. My son says that I should take the next step and get something like a DBAL and start working with it.

The really big news is that my wife decided that she wants to learn to shoot. She just did not want to learn from me... So she went to the Athena Gun Club in Houston and she took a couple of lessons. She tried a couple of different pistols and she chose to purchase a Glock 43X. She has signed up for additional lessons with her new pistol.

 

[FuhQ]

Probably would choose a different caliber going that short.

It's a 1:7 twist barrel, so it makes a full revolution before exit. I shoot 55gr ammo, and I can hit 5" gongs at 100 yards 9-10/10 times, and still hit a full-size vitals in a torso at 200... I don't plan on shooting it at 200, and I was just fucking around at the range because I was bored, but it did it. Surprised me, too. But I like to know what my guns are capable of. Now I know for fact that if SHTF, at 200 yards, I can still be pretty damn dangerous with my 7.5" shorty pistol.

Velocities aren't as good as 14.5"-16" barrels, but still not as bad as you would think.

This was with cheap Tula steel case .223 55gr FMJ.

 

[6.5SH]

It's a 1:7 twist barrel, so it makes a full revolution before exit. I shoot 55gr ammo, and I can hit 5" gongs at 100 yards 9-10/10 times, and still hit a full-size vitals in a torso at 200... I don't plan on shooting it at 200, and I was just fucking around at the range because I was bored, but it did it. Surprised me, too. But I like to know what my guns are capable of. Now I know for fact that if SHTF, at 200 yards, I can still be pretty damn dangerous with my 7.5" shorty pistol.

Velocities aren't as good as 14.5"-16" barrels, but still not as bad as you would think.

I have a 7.5" 1:7 as well. With a RDS and Hornady 75 gr TAP was able to make head shots on a reduced size DOE target at 200 yards.

ETA:
From what I mathed it out at the time about 212 yards was the effective range for expansion with that round.

 

[AngryKoala]

It's a 1:7 twist barrel, so it makes a full revolution before exit. I shoot 55gr ammo, and I can hit 5" gongs at 100 yards 9-10/10 times, and still hit a full-size vitals in a torso at 200... I don't plan on shooting it at 200, and I was just fucking around at the range because I was bored, but it did it. Surprised me, too. But I like to know what my guns are capable of. Now I know for fact that if SHTF, at 200 yards, I can still be pretty damn dangerous with my 7.5" shorty pistol.

Velocities aren't as good as 14.5"-16" barrels, but still not as bad as you would think.

This was with cheap Tula steel case .223 55gr FMJ.

View attachment 7965958
View attachment 7965959

I guess I was leaning more toward what would be more effective out of a shorter barrel. I haven't looked into wound effects so I can't comment but I would think that fragmentation would be less repeatable at that velocity. Outside of my knowledge base so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[300Punisher]

I love all the responses, AR, .357, Shotty yada, yada...

You can tell a man's bullshit by the amount of gas coming out of his mouth...

Questions I have:

Split Plan?

Two story?

Kids?

ETC...

You never bring up over penetration, concrete or stucco, floor plan layout...

The gun you carry should be the gun you use... and if you've never cooked a round of 12 GA, 20 GA, 555, 300 BO, 357 in a house unsuppressed you haven't lived... and you will not soon forget.

So yes suppressed, get a Rattler 5.5" and can that bitch... or be a real man and grab your CP33 suppressed with 33 rounds of 22 LR with your TLR7 and OWN your house!

They come in but they don't come out! You own the night, use it to your advantage and "Dispatch" the predators... and yes "Intent" has been proven.

My 2 cents...

 

[Rerun7]

 

[AleksanderSuave]

dogs are interesting. I keep a GSD at home too, the bark is a good deterrent usually. Outside of that, he's protective but who knows what he would do in a true break in..

When I used to work in Detroit, it was common for the "guard dog" to get poisoned/shot or even stolen during the break in.

Lots of posts saying "dont worry about ear protection". Hilarious. Let me know how that works out for any of you the first time a round goes off near you. Loss of hearing also affects your balance. Keep that in mind.

Have you discussed a plan with your wife as to what happens next time? Who is calling 911, who is grabbing what, flashlight? weapon mounted light?

What room you plan to hole up in? Practice getting to your gear after being woken up? How about trying to shoot when that dog is jumping around or similar? Pretty good odds you might get the dog. Something to consider if you cant recall it on command.

As for weapon of choice...whatever one you train with the most. My SO is the "call the police" person, while Im primary on the see whats going on. We both have access to the cameras and each have a weapon on each side of the bed, along with ear pro and headlamps.

 

[Surma-T]

So personally I use a 13.7 pinned and welded AR (no class 3 stuff) in 5.56. Heavy and slow goes through too many walls, and living in a neighborhood I want there to be high probability of the projectile starting to fragment after an interior wall yet alone an exterior wall (depending on construction)

Really does come down to your situation, as well as the courts in your area and to what degree they may try to demonize you. Some places a suppressed SBR may be fine. Others it will vilify you. Much the same to what caliber and ammunition you use. If you’ve got a fair distance between yourself and your neighbor, or if say you have solid block walls, your choices broaden. If you have 10-20 yards or less to your neighbors house and/or fragile modern construction, you might want to look at something fast that will fragment reliably.

Just my two cents whatever the hell they are worth. We all have our preferences but really we need to keep in mind our surroundings.

 

[WindstormSCR]

I have some opinions, but opinions are like assholes. Have this shitpost instead:

If you are recoil sensitive, a kel tec CMR In .22 mag will fuck some shit up.

 

[BurtG]

There is obviously a trend here and things need to change asap. Big ass windows that they can easily see into would be the first thing I’d change. You may love natural light but I bet you like keeping your property too.

Security tint/film?