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Hoplite Arms
- Thread starter THEIS
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It’s a rifle lesbian love story.
AI tests the finish on hoplite with licking, rubbing and grinding
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From what I gather from the initial pages.
It’s of the same or better quality
But spec’d out to run cartridges as a higher pressure, giving you a larger margin of error for pressure spikes
Or/and
The ability to get a higher velocity equaling better performance
My favorite part is the no BS totally transparent nature of the whole process.
It’s of the same or better quality
But spec’d out to run cartridges as a higher pressure, giving you a larger margin of error for pressure spikes
Or/and
The ability to get a higher velocity equaling better performance
My favorite part is the no BS totally transparent nature of the whole process.
It’s also made in the states and probably more accommodating to peoples desire for bolt faces other than 308, magnum and lapua.
It's another quality option. More options is always to the benefit of the consumer.
Some may want AI's, some may want Hoplite rifles. I'm happy we have the choice to pick either.
The upcoming HP cartridges really interest me.
The speed numbers on those cartridges are quite interesting!
The headline feature is that this rifle system is designed to run at up to nearly double the pressures that other conventional cartridges run at.
That gives you the option to:
1. Get a bit more speed out of your existing components safely, if you don't mind not reusing your brass as much
2. Get a fair bit more speed by using expensive lathe turned brass
3. Go really all out with the new bimetallic cases and have a very significant jump in performance
4. Have an amazing margin of safety for if something goes really wrong with your reloading.
Next part is the modularity of the system.
You can pick the in house chassis that lets you use standard AR style grips and buttstocks of which there are endless varieties.
You can have it in a more traditional standard stock format.
Then probably just as important, you have the company owner @THEIS who is dedicated to engaging with the community and providing detailed personal customer service and contact. Try him, just ask him about things and he'll get back to you pretty quickly. Unlike AI which will never get back to you and refer you to one of their distributors (MH and EO do their own excellent customer service, so if you want to buy an AI keep that in mind.) @THEIS is trying to set the new gold standard in the firearms industry for having a company that has product ready when they say they will, and has immediate knowledgeable customer service.
Also worth noting is that @DAVETOOLEY who is top notch at chambering barrels & really knows his stuff well is working closely with this project to ensure that the barrels are the best you can get. (Yes he also makes amazing barrels for the AI rifles).
Now to give you an idea, I would guess a lot of folks interesting in buying one of his rifles (such as myself) also own AI rifles and probably don't plan to abandon them anytime soon, but rather add this to the stable due to the above listed unique features.
Took the words out of my mouth on all fronts. I love my AI and will never get rid of it. I would also love to have a Hoplite. Win win.
Hi,
We still have some T&E on the HP cartridges,
.
Now in regards to what the rifle does that an AI doesn't do......
Hi,
It is not that the rifle itself does things that an AI doesn't; It is more along the lines that we are completely public on our process to include alloys, heat treatments, tolerances, philosophies, etc etc.
Stuff that everyone seems to be super-secret squirrel about but we do not feel there is a reason for such elusiveness.
In regards to design vs design....
We feel we have a more rugged (via alloy and treatments) receiver system while at the same time being a more simplified system. The bolt stop is manual with no push buttons, levers, etc etc to get damaged during field abuse.
We also have pressure tested our receiver to the failure point of traditional brass case (Right around 151k) in which we had to cut the barrel out of the breech cylinder so we could check the receiver..to find not even a broken extractor. As to where the normal manufacturer shoots 2 rounds of proof ammo which is basically 1.5x normal operating pressure and calls it a day...so around 90k.
We will be continuing that destruction test with not only thicker RCC brass but with some new bi-metal 2 piece case designs built specifically for high pressures too.
Our chassis allows the end user to utilize different buttstocks for a more dedicated fit/feel.
Being a more customer focused company we can be more agile in response to trends of the market. For example our Hoplite Arms weapon systems come with RRS dovetail forends, unlike others rifles that need to replace factory parts with non OEM parts.
Our handguard and chassis section is also 7075 instead of the more commonly used 6061.
But here is what separates Hoplite Arms from AI and trust me we are AI fans ourselves!!!
1. The Manufacturer to Consumer interface--- because lets face it...all rifles do essentially the same thing. You pull trigger, gun powder ignites and projectile goes out the barrel.
2. Made in the USA.
3. Transparency...I have not only listed out the alloys per each component, I have listed out the hardening process and specifications for each component. This as others have mentioned would normally require NDA, etc etc but I chose to do it publicly in the attempt to get other manufacturers to do it. AND the consumers should demand it from manufacturers so that an action vs action can be compared properly, so that a rifle vs rifle can be compared properly, etc etc instead of just by price.
We always see threads of x vs y instead of x,y, and z details.....I want customers to know exactly what they have from Hoplite Arms...from the source....Customers deserve that!!
Sincerely,
Theis
We still have some T&E on the HP cartridges,
.Now in regards to what the rifle does that an AI doesn't do......
Hi,
It is not that the rifle itself does things that an AI doesn't; It is more along the lines that we are completely public on our process to include alloys, heat treatments, tolerances, philosophies, etc etc.
Stuff that everyone seems to be super-secret squirrel about but we do not feel there is a reason for such elusiveness.
In regards to design vs design....
We feel we have a more rugged (via alloy and treatments) receiver system while at the same time being a more simplified system. The bolt stop is manual with no push buttons, levers, etc etc to get damaged during field abuse.
We also have pressure tested our receiver to the failure point of traditional brass case (Right around 151k) in which we had to cut the barrel out of the breech cylinder so we could check the receiver..to find not even a broken extractor. As to where the normal manufacturer shoots 2 rounds of proof ammo which is basically 1.5x normal operating pressure and calls it a day...so around 90k.
We will be continuing that destruction test with not only thicker RCC brass but with some new bi-metal 2 piece case designs built specifically for high pressures too.
Our chassis allows the end user to utilize different buttstocks for a more dedicated fit/feel.
Being a more customer focused company we can be more agile in response to trends of the market. For example our Hoplite Arms weapon systems come with RRS dovetail forends, unlike others rifles that need to replace factory parts with non OEM parts.
Our handguard and chassis section is also 7075 instead of the more commonly used 6061.
But here is what separates Hoplite Arms from AI and trust me we are AI fans ourselves!!!
1. The Manufacturer to Consumer interface--- because lets face it...all rifles do essentially the same thing. You pull trigger, gun powder ignites and projectile goes out the barrel.
2. Made in the USA.
3. Transparency...I have not only listed out the alloys per each component, I have listed out the hardening process and specifications for each component. This as others have mentioned would normally require NDA, etc etc but I chose to do it publicly in the attempt to get other manufacturers to do it. AND the consumers should demand it from manufacturers so that an action vs action can be compared properly, so that a rifle vs rifle can be compared properly, etc etc instead of just by price.
We always see threads of x vs y instead of x,y, and z details.....I want customers to know exactly what they have from Hoplite Arms...from the source....Customers deserve that!!
Sincerely,
Theis
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Hi,
We still have some T&E on the HP cartridges,
Now in regards to what the rifle does that an AI doesn't do......
Hi,
It is not that the rifle itself does things that an AI doesn't; It is more along the lines that we are completely public on our process to include alloys, heat treatments, tolerances, philosophies, etc etc.
Stuff that everyone seems to be super-secret squirrel about but we do not feel there is a reason for such elusiveness.
In regards to design vs design....
We feel we have a more rugged (via alloy and treatments) receiver system while at the same time being a more simplified system. The bolt stop is manual with no push buttons, levers, etc etc to get damaged during field abuse.
We also have pressure tested our receiver to the failure point of traditional brass case (Right around 151k) in which we had to cut the barrel out of the breech cylinder so we could check the receiver..to find not even a broken extractor. As to where the normal manufacturer shoots 2 rounds of proof ammo which is basically 1.5x normal operating pressure and calls it a day...so around 90k.
We will be continuing that destruction test with not only thicker RCC brass but with some new bi-metal 2 piece case designs built specifically for high pressures too.
Our chassis allows the end user to utilize different buttstocks for a more dedicated fit/feel.
Being a more customer focused company we can be more agile in response to trends of the market. For example our Hoplite Arms weapon systems come with RRS dovetail forends, unlike others rifles that need to replace factory parts with non OEM parts.
Our handguard and chassis section is also 7075 instead of the more commonly used 6061.
But here is what separates Hoplite Arms from AI and trust me we are AI fans ourselves!!!
1. The Manufacturer to Consumer interface--- because lets face it...all rifles do essentially the same thing. You pull trigger, gun powder ignites and projectile goes out the barrel.
2. Made in the USA.
3. Transparency...I have not only listed out the alloys per each component, I have listed out the hardening process and specifications for each component. This as others have mentioned would normally require NDA, etc etc but I chose to do it publicly in the attempt to get other manufacturers to do it. AND the consumers should demand it from manufacturers so that an action can be compared properly, so that a rifle can be compared properly, etc etc instead of just by price.
We always see threads of x vs y instead of x,y, and z details.....I want customers to know exactly what they have from Hoplite Arms...from the source....Customers deserve that!!
Sincerely,
Theis
I reckon the chap in the picture was not into rifles then (@Steelhead, no pun intended). Seems many here don’t mind having the two at the same time. Erm...same time in the gunsafe...I mean the rifles...well, whatever, no use trying to rephrase that anymore. That Hoplite though will be able to function with even greater pressure to get you la...to use more interesting ammo. Sorry guys. English is my 3rd language, so I keep making some mistakes when I type.
i've never had the privilege of shooting some of the multi-adjustable skeletonized stocks such as one sees on the Accuracy International AXMC or the Tikka T3x Tac A1 ....wondering how the Hoplite stock compares?
Per the skill, knowledge and experience of Mr. Theis i've no doubt it must be an excellent option but wondering about it's attributes in comparison. thanks
Per the skill, knowledge and experience of Mr. Theis i've no doubt it must be an excellent option but wondering about it's attributes in comparison. thanks
Hi,
No Mr, here, lolol
Well first thing is those others designed and manufacture an entire chassis assembly as to where we did not; by design and philosophy mind you.
We decided to focus on the "center" section of the chassis first and foremost as that is the interface between the receiver and essentially all the other chassis components. This allows us to be a little more modular in the concept.
Our design allows the receiver to sit fairly low in the chassis in relation to scope line of sight as this really helps with the Center of Gravity feel of the rifle under recoil.
The chassis is 7075 T-6 instead of the normal 6061.
The chassis design also allows us to glue the receiver in with the action screws and dual recoil lugs being the reference point or we can just screw and go with no bedding since the chassis is milled to fit the receiver exactly...the flat bottom of the receiver design greatly assist with this.
After that, we started looking at the handguard...as you can see some of the earlier pictures in this thread showed just a standard aftermarket handguard but then IIRC someone here in the thread brought up RRS Dovetail....so a couple weeks later we decided to do away with aftermarket and make our 18" handguard with integral RRS Dovetail....also out of 7075 T-6.
I like the Ergo Grip TDX-0 so that is what the rifles come with as standard.
I like the Magpul PRS Gen III so that is what the rifles come with as standard.
But the chassis center section allows the end user to change to the grip and buttstock to suit their feel.
Sincerely,
Theis
No Mr, here, lolol
Well first thing is those others designed and manufacture an entire chassis assembly as to where we did not; by design and philosophy mind you.
We decided to focus on the "center" section of the chassis first and foremost as that is the interface between the receiver and essentially all the other chassis components. This allows us to be a little more modular in the concept.
Our design allows the receiver to sit fairly low in the chassis in relation to scope line of sight as this really helps with the Center of Gravity feel of the rifle under recoil.
The chassis is 7075 T-6 instead of the normal 6061.
The chassis design also allows us to glue the receiver in with the action screws and dual recoil lugs being the reference point or we can just screw and go with no bedding since the chassis is milled to fit the receiver exactly...the flat bottom of the receiver design greatly assist with this.
After that, we started looking at the handguard...as you can see some of the earlier pictures in this thread showed just a standard aftermarket handguard but then IIRC someone here in the thread brought up RRS Dovetail....so a couple weeks later we decided to do away with aftermarket and make our 18" handguard with integral RRS Dovetail....also out of 7075 T-6.
I like the Ergo Grip TDX-0 so that is what the rifles come with as standard.
I like the Magpul PRS Gen III so that is what the rifles come with as standard.
But the chassis center section allows the end user to change to the grip and buttstock to suit their feel.
Sincerely,
Theis
The modular buttstock is good news for us short folks. A PRS only goes down to what... 13.5”?!? Some of us need 12-12.5” to maintain proper positioning.
Might not ever buy one of these rifle, but I am loving watching this grow! Good luck to HA and to you Theis.
Might not ever buy one of these rifle, but I am loving watching this grow! Good luck to HA and to you Theis.
Hi,
Yes the PRS is on the long side, after I get the first set of demo rifles completed for Shot Show I intend to sit down with my machine programmer and come up with an easy process to shorten the PRS by 1 to 1.5 inches if possible from cutting that much out of it out right at the connection point.
There are a few threads on the internet (a couple here on SH) about guys shortening their PRS by 1 inch.
Sincerely,
Theis
Did you measure LOP yet with the PRS 3? Kinda bummed one of these isn’t under my tree.
Hi,
Loading for 4th and 5th operation.....
Appointment set with Birdsong facility tomorrow to drop batch of receivers off for coating...
Then 10 get sent to Tooley right around 4th of January for him to get all the measurements he desires along with chambering and putting barrels on them.
4 are going to NTS for official destruction testing.
Will get assembled LOP in morning, chassis finally hits receiving dock today from anodizing.
Sincerely,
Theis
Loading for 4th and 5th operation.....
Appointment set with Birdsong facility tomorrow to drop batch of receivers off for coating...
Then 10 get sent to Tooley right around 4th of January for him to get all the measurements he desires along with chambering and putting barrels on them.
4 are going to NTS for official destruction testing.
Will get assembled LOP in morning, chassis finally hits receiving dock today from anodizing.
Sincerely,
Theis
Hi,
Another in the raw bolt picture, lol.
Bolt body and lugs all machined after full vacuum hardening process (4340 Alloy at 50 HRC). Rear piece of bolt machined completely before the full vacuum hardening process (4340 Alloy at 45 HRC)
Sincerely,
Theis
Another in the raw bolt picture, lol.
Bolt body and lugs all machined after full vacuum hardening process (4340 Alloy at 50 HRC). Rear piece of bolt machined completely before the full vacuum hardening process (4340 Alloy at 45 HRC)
Sincerely,
Theis
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Hi,
So a couple day delays in getting to coating....
Had some power issues at the shop but here are a few pic updates.
Checking fit of the raw, unblasted receiver in the chassis.
Getting engraving program ready.
Running last OP on 5th axis.
ASPIS receiver bodies in M1, KOPIS receiver bodies in M2.
Sincerely,
Theis
So a couple day delays in getting to coating....
Had some power issues at the shop but here are a few pic updates.
Checking fit of the raw, unblasted receiver in the chassis.
Getting engraving program ready.
Running last OP on 5th axis.
ASPIS receiver bodies in M1, KOPIS receiver bodies in M2.
Sincerely,
Theis
I would love to tour your facility someday. Nothing but impressed with your operation. These manufacturing standards should be expected from all.
Hi,
Big Red in the background can be for sale if you want it, lol...
13 pallet conveyor system setup with 6 sided tombstone holders....makes for great lights out operation for AR lowers and uppers, lol.
Sincerely,
Theis
Hi,
Thank you. None of the standards could be met without the guys standing at those machines!!
Equipment is easy to purchase but no matter what it cost it doesn't do shit without incredibly knowledgeable and hard working floor hands.
Sincerely,
Theis
I dont have that overseas money yet. But when I do, it's gonna be going toward real estate and my hallucinations of a plinking ammo company, and medical/tactical education businesses I wanna start.
That Nigerian prince will be sending that check any day now.
I sure as fuck hope so! I already prepaid the taxes via western union to him!
Amen to that. Fully invested employees will definitely make you a rockstar.
Let me guess. The prince personally emailed you the offer. Did it go something like this:
”...You me first transfer $500 000. This small money is need to release the fund after local tax, interntional fund transfer cost and humble service fee for interntional fund transfer ministry. After we receive your money, we send you $50 milllion.”.
Damn. What a small world this is. The Prince emailed me too. I already sent that $500 000, but haven’t yet heard back from him. He must be experiencing some internet connectivity issues.
Hi,
Finishing OP on 5 axis.
Sincerely,
Theis
Finishing OP on 5 axis.
Sincerely,
Theis
Hi,
5 ASPIS receivers heading to blasting for clean-up.
Sincerely,
Theis
5 ASPIS receivers heading to blasting for clean-up.
Sincerely,
Theis
Hi,
Here is video of bolt cycle on a raw un-media blasted receiver (Cleaned and coated should be even smoother)..straight off the machine this evening.
Disclaimer----Horrible video quality but enough you can see and hear the bolt cycle.
Here is a video of code flow on one of the Mazaks...
Sincerely,
Theis
Here is video of bolt cycle on a raw un-media blasted receiver (Cleaned and coated should be even smoother)..straight off the machine this evening.
Disclaimer----Horrible video quality but enough you can see and hear the bolt cycle.
Here is a video of code flow on one of the Mazaks...
Sincerely,
Theis
Hi,
That is raw and plain; still has to be media blasted to clean up surface areas then prepped for coating.
I am seriously contemplating just bead blasting the ones for shot show so that people can feel the bolt cycle in its most basic state...without any coating to reduce friction, etc etc; just pure feel of the design, quality of machining, etc.
Sincerely,
Theis
Maybe take one as close to in the raw as you can, and the others finished so that people can experience both the quality and attention to detail of the machining as well as the refinement and execution of the final product.
I think this is a solid plan and good way to show off your products.
Hi,
Hoping to get the call from Birdsong tomorrow that my coated products are ready.
They have lots of different colors and variations of colors than listed on their website and since I told Wally to basically "surprise" me with color, color schemes and color combinations......I cannot wait to see what he come up with.
Here is fully assembled Kopis (top) and Aspis (bottom) in the raw metal form that are destined for NTS testing facility for destruction testing.
Sincerely,
Theis
Hoping to get the call from Birdsong tomorrow that my coated products are ready.
They have lots of different colors and variations of colors than listed on their website and since I told Wally to basically "surprise" me with color, color schemes and color combinations......I cannot wait to see what he come up with.
Here is fully assembled Kopis (top) and Aspis (bottom) in the raw metal form that are destined for NTS testing facility for destruction testing.
Sincerely,
Theis
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May i ask, will you perhaps be offering for sale the complete action or must one purchase a complete rifle?
I'm hoping to purchase a complete action as i slowly save up enough for a build. thank you
I'm hoping to purchase a complete action as i slowly save up enough for a build. thank you
Hi,
From post #109 way back, lol...
Ok guys....I wanted to take a minute to explain the "why" we will be releasing complete weapon systems in the beginning and not stand alone actions.
I have also added this information to the first post to make it easier to follow and access if needed.
Initially, we (Hoplite Arms) will offer complete weapon systems and will not be offering actions alone.
Through a methodical R&D testing program the soon to be offered weapon system and its specifically selected components have been painstakingly tested, redesigned and refined. For over 2 years the R&D process using software in tandem with field trials, have been performed in the most adverse conditions that can be found. Including but not limited to the winters in Finland and the deserts of the UAE. ranging in temperatures from subzero to 120F, while also enduring windblown snow and ultra-fine sand/dust particles which are known adversaries of firearm actions.
By offering a complete weapon system from the onset we (Hoplite Arms) can ensure that our design is not left vulnerable to issues that have plagued certain sectors of our industry, particularly over the past 5-10 years. Issues that are not only limited to small shops but the largest of manufacturers as well.
The action market at this moment has become myopic in trying to become the cheapest in price and/or continually offering products that have not gone through what we believe a proper R&D testing process should consist of. While not problematic at face value we believe that strategy has caused several continual and repeated detrimental issues within the industry.
Customers have had to experience unacceptable issues consisting of erratic lead times, manufacturers having to roll out product fixes/updates to designs that were not found during accelerated T&E, along with auxiliary items such as magazines or triggers not functioning properly.
While a continuous stream of new products is always a positive for the action market, those products should aim to improve or replace existing legacy products not only expand options available. The sheer amount of bolt-on aftermarket parts now available; while designed to meet OEM specs and interchangeability do not always work in sync with all customer build specs, criteria and combinations of component choices. This causes unforeseen issues by the end user/customer which a well-designed and thoroughly tested complete system will not have.
Hoplite Arms criteria and performance targets for these new projects (Kopis, Aspis and Phalanx weapon systems) has been aimed at not only adding value and increasing reliability (which should be paramount for any weapon system) but also to enlarge and exceed the current performance envelope.
Sincerely,
Theis
Instead of destruction..send them my way.
don’t waste good actions on something no one else does lol
thank you...sorry i missed this information.
I was just admiring the progress of the design and build.
I was just admiring the progress of the design and build.
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