Range Report Hornady 147 ELDM blowing up

[AccuSol-ERN]

The oldschool 142 smk is a great bullet with a tough jacket.

 

[capreppy]

The oldschool 142 smk is a great bullet with a tough jacket.

I have some left (350 or so), but can't find them anywhere to save my life

I'll keep on the look out, but the Barnes Match Burner and Hornady HPBT are both in stock with decent G7 values. I have 140 Amax that I'm going to run just to get trigger time (unless I can sell them to buy newer bullets),

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

If you are having issues with hornady 147s coming apart in flight.......you may get the same result with hornady 140s (not sure if jacket thickness/toughness is the same.)

 

[Ledzep]

If you are having issues with hornady 147s coming apart in flight.......you may get the same result with hornady 140s (not sure if jacket thickness/toughness is the same.)

The only 140's I've heard of coming apart were in a barrel that was also blowing 140 Bergers, 153 bergers, 147's, 153 a-tips, 142 SMK's, and 150 SMK's...

143 ELD-X is the end-all be-all if you've got a mean barrel.

 

[db2000]

I just dropped by to see if folks are still debating this. Throw money away however you see fit.

 

[KnowNothing256]

If you want to switch bullets, what are good options for a 6.5CM?

I realize Berger would be the best, but availability is still a huge issue.

Are Hornady 140 HPBT an option?
Nosler 140 CC or RDX
Barnes 140 Match Burners

Are there any Sierra options?

Use Case: Regularly shooting to 1200 out a SS Proof Research barrel.

The 140 HPBT is a solid budget choice, and no not the same jacket.

 

[Rob01]

If you are having issues with hornady 147s coming apart in flight.......you may get the same result with hornady 140s (not sure if jacket thickness/toughness is the same.)

Never heard of any issues with the 140 ELDS. Have shot a lot of them in multiple rifles and no issues.

 

[capreppy]

Trying to find some 140 ELDM and give them a try. Worst case, I go to 140 HPBT and run those till I can get a decent stock of Bergers. Not a fan of keeping different loads especially since I only have 600 Lapua brass at this time.

 

[Rob01]

The Hornady 140 BTHP aren't a bad bullet but BC is a good deal lower than the newer 140 bullets. Much better than the 140 SMK which is a terrible BC for a 6.5 bullet.

 

[capreppy]

The Hornady 140 BTHP aren't a bad bullet but BC is a good deal lower than the newer 140 bullets. Much better than the 140 SMK which is a terrible BC for a 6.5 bullet.

I did manage to find 200 140 ELDMs at Scheels (too bad I can't pick them up, but it is free shipping).

The Hornady 140 BTHP is a worst case scenario. I would ideally like to go with a newer bullet.

 

[KnowNothing256]

I did manage to find 200 140 ELDMs at Scheels (too bad I can't pick them up, but it is free shipping).

The Hornady 140 BTHP is a worst case scenario. I would ideally like to go with a newer bullet.

Hornady 6.5mm 140 Gr ELD Match Bullets (100 Ct)

Hornady 6.5 (.264) 140 Gr ELD Match Bullet (100 Ct) 100 ct. Extend your range and never compromise at any distance! ELD (Extremely Low Drag Match) ELD Match bullets are technologically advanced, enhanced accuracy target bullets featuring Heat Shield tips with the PERFECT MEPLAT (tip...

www.creedmoorsports.com

The 140’s aren’t hard to find these days.

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

Thats good to know about the hornady 140s jackets being tougher. I kinda figured it was different but didn't want to put out bad info without knowing for sure.

I don't think hornady has a bullet "issue" however I think certain bullets are closer to the failure point than others by design.

Again, the problematic rifles should be looked at also......don't assume the chambers are perfect and blame the bullet. With borescopes being cheap and readily available, doublecheck your builders work.

Ern

 

[lash]

Here, try some A-tips. They do really well at distance:

The 135s are a great choice for out to 1200.

 

[TangoSierra916]

I know this is a somewhat older thread, but are people still seeing these 147 ELD-M fail in flight?

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

I know this is a somewhat older thread, but are people still seeing these 147 ELD-M fail in flight?

These were 5 shot groups at 350m loaded with 147 eldms I shot this last spring during load development. They would shoot .5 moa groups at 100m and then blow up or destabilize between 300-400m.

I decided they weren't worth the trouble. It seems like it might be a lot to lot kind of issue. Hornady told me they hadn't heard about this before, which seems, unlikely.

 

[hic28]

Hornady told me they hadn't heard about this before, which seems, unlikely.

what an outright lie.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

what an outright lie.

I'm assuming you're not accusing me of lying, correct?

 

[hic28]

I'm assuming you're not accusing me of lying, correct?

Correct. Should have clarified that the statement from hornady is an outright lie. Unless they fired the entire staff that knows about it and hired the janitors as customer service reps

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

Correct. Should have clarified that the statement from hornady is an outright lie. Unless they fired the entire staff that knows about it and hired the janitors as customer service reps

Just making sure. I didn't pursue it further with them and sold the rest of the bullets at a loss.

I've starting working on a load using the 225gr eldm for my 300 prc. I am hoping that I have good success with those. I never had any issues with the 6.5mm 140 eldm, but I changed over to loading 140gr sierras after the shitshow that was the 147 eldm.

 

[Baron23]

Just making sure. I didn't pursue it further with them and sold the rest of the bullets at a loss.

I've starting working on a load using the 225gr eldm for my 300 prc. I am hoping that I have good success with those. I never had any issues with the 6.5mm 140 eldm, but I changed over to loading 140gr sierras after the shitshow that was the 147 eldm.

May I assume that the vintage of the bullets you bought were close to last spring when you were doing load dev and having some come apart. That is, they were not from a year ago or that type of thing.

Of course I believe you...and I've seen vid of the puff of smoke but if I recall correctly this was a year or two ago and haven't heard much about it lately.

I've never had any blow up but I've only shot them in factory loads. My friend @GBMaryland finds one of his rifles likes them a lot and I don't believe he's had any similar issue.

And I agree...Hornady says "we dunno nutin' aboud it" when we know its been reported to them many, many times. That kind of crap really undermines trust in the brand.

Cheers

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

May I assume that the vintage of the bullets you bought were close to last spring when you were doing load dev and having some come apart.

According to the date info on some pics, I bought a box (which was the pics above) in mid February 2022 from an Academy in Texas and I tried a second box in March which might have been from Brownells, but IDK? So this didn't happen yesterday, but also wasn't years ago.

 

[Longshot231]

These were 5 shot groups at 350m loaded with 147 eldms I shot this last spring during load development. They would shoot .5 moa groups at 100m and then blow up or destabilize between 300-400m.

I decided they weren't worth the trouble. It seems like it might be a lot to lot kind of issue. Hornady told me they hadn't heard about this before, which seems, unlikely.

What was the muzzle velocity and twist rate?

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

What was the muzzle velocity and twist rate?

1:8 twist
Honestly, I never chronoed them and doubt I have any notes left for them. But they were probably upper middle of the road powder drops of staball 6.5 according to the hornady reloading book for that bullet. So nothing crazy fast.

 

[Lowlight]

MV and Twist Rate are not the cause.

it is happening with factory ammo, factory gun, we had one in class doing it so often we could predict it and got some good video of it happening

 

[TangoSierra916]

MV and Twist Rate are not the cause.

it is happening with factory ammo, factory gun, we had one in class doing it so often we could predict it and got some good video of it happening

Thanks for the insight, was this happening in a class recently?

 

[Lowlight]

More than once

 

[Lowlight]

 

[Shoots 700's]

But Hornady says they don't blow up.

 

[Undrgrndprdcts]

Any updates on these or are they a lost cause at this point?

 

[db2000]

Lost cause I believe. Hornady won’t acknowledge they’re even doing it. It’s pitiful.

 

[Pbgt]

We still see 1% avg from 6.5 cm..1/8 twist not making it to their destination intact. (this included 6.5 prc) Only the 147, no other weight. I can not say, and would venture to guess some of this ammo is a year or two old...I have folks that bought 10 boxes and that is a year or 2 supply for them....so hornady could have addressed the issue on the newest manufactured stuff, I cant say.

 

[Undrgrndprdcts]

Man that sucks. Even in my short barrel running the numbers these bullets really shine.

 

[acourvil]

Give them a try and see what happens. There are a lot of factors that can contribute to the problem: rotation rate (twist/fps), barrel type, number and style of lands, barrel age/condition, bullet jump to lands, how clean/dirty the barrel is, etc. Your configuration/use might be ok (or it might not).

Hornady knows this is a problem, and if pressed will tell you not to shoot their bullets faster than 290k rotational rate. They will also tell you about all of the things that can make the problem worse and why it is your fault.

Personally, I had the problems with 153gn A-Tips n a 6.5PRC. I did not have a problem with the 147ELDs, but did not shoot as many as the ATips. I did not have a problem in my 260 Rem with Atips or ELDs, and I regularly shoot the 110 ATips in my 6CM w/o any problem.

 

[hic28]

Give them a try and see what happens. There are a lot of factors that can contribute to the problem: rotation rate (twist/fps), barrel type, number and style of lands, barrel age/condition, bullet jump to lands, how clean/dirty the barrel is, etc. Your configuration/use might be ok (or it might not).

Hornady knows this is a problem, and if pressed will tell you not to shoot their bullets faster than 290k rotational rate. They will also tell you about all of the things that can make the problem worse and why it is your fault.

Personally, I had the problems with 153gn A-Tips n a 6.5PRC. I did not have a problem with the 147ELDs, but did not shoot as many as the ATips. I did not have a problem in my 260 Rem with Atips or ELDs, and I regularly shoot the 110 ATips in my 6CM w/o any problem.

You know what I’ve never had a problem with?

Any berger from the LRHT line.

And I’m using the same barrels the 147s were blowing up in.

Hornady told me it was my barrel.

 

[Longshot231]

You know what I’ve never had a problem with?

Any berger from the LRHT line.

And I’m using the same barrels the 147s were blowing up in.

Hornady told me it was my barrel.

What kind of barrel do you have and how fast is the bullet going?

 

[hic28]

What kind of barrel do you have and how fast is the bullet going?

See post #1

 

[acourvil]

You know what I’ve never had a problem with?

Any berger from the LRHT line.

And I’m using the same barrels the 147s were blowing up in.

Hornady told me it was my barrel.

Same here. The barrel that was blowing up the 153gn A-Tips was just fine with the 153.5gn Berger LRHT bullets. That was a 26” Bartlein 5R 1:7 barrel with maybe 1100 rounds on it, bullet speed ~2980fps. My point was that there are a lot of variables and the 147s might work, you don’t really know until you try. If you can get the Bergers and don’t want to take a chance of losing bullets, that’s the way to go. But some people like to experiment, or maybe have a bunch of 147s to use up.

 

[hic28]

Same here. The barrel that was blowing up the 153gn A-Tips was just fine with the 153.5gn Berger LRHT bullets. That was a 26” Bartlein 5R 1:7 barrel with maybe 1100 rounds on it, bullet speed ~2980fps. My point was that there are a lot of variables and the 147s might work, you don’t really know until you try. If you can get the Bergers and don’t want to take a chance of losing bullets, that’s the way to go. But some people like to experiment, or maybe have a bunch of 147s to use up.

Yep, exactly. Same barrel that had all the factory hornady ammo blowing up was the same barrel I won the NF ELr last year with. According to the hornady rep, my barrel was the issue…

 

[atepointer]

Yep, exactly. Same barrel that had all the factory hornady ammo blowing up was the same barrel I won the NF ELr last year with. According to the hornady rep, my barrel was the issue…

This thread was quite a read as I've looked into some faster twist options at sea level for heavier 6.5 bullets. I did notice Hornady's site for both the 147 ELDM and 153 Atip say 8t 'minimum recommended'. Sierra 150g states 7.5t min and Berger 153.5 1:8 or faster.

 

[GBMaryland]

One thing that I’ve noticed is that the 153.5 burger bullets don’t seem to shoot very well in any gun that I have that has a standard SAAMI chamber…

I currently have a PVA Osprey 1:7 and that would be the fourth barrel I’ve tried, and it doesn’t really work well either for those very heavy bullets.

147 ELDM I can shoot all day long and have no issues whatsoever.

Pretty much go to round…

The highest velocity, I’m seeing with those are 2750, and I’m obviously not having any problems with them exploding.

 

[acourvil]

This thread was quite a read as I've looked into some faster twist options at sea level for heavier 6.5 bullets. I did notice Hornady's site for both the 147 ELDM and 153 Atip say 8t 'minimum recommended'. Sierra 150g states 7.5t min and Berger 153.5 1:8 or faster.

When I was shooting the 153gn ATips, the box said 1-7.5 twist minimum. They also published 6.5PRC load data showing velocities of 2950-3050. But if you put those together, it spins faster than their recommended max.

One thing that I’ve noticed is that the 153.5 burger bullets don’t seem to shoot very well in any gun that I have that has a standard SAAMI chamber…

I currently have a PVA Osprey 1:7 and that would be the fourth barrel I’ve tried, and it doesn’t really work well either for those very heavy bullets.

147 ELDM I can shoot all day long and have no issues whatsoever.

Pretty much go to round…

The highest velocity, I’m seeing with those are 2750, and I’m obviously not having any problems with them exploding.

I've only shot them in a 6.5 PRC at higher speeds (i.e., 2950 to 3050) in a 1:7 barrel, but they both shot well with a SAAMI chamber. They are very long bullets, so the bullet position in the cartridge in not optimal if you use a short action. I got slightly better precision with the ATips (when they didn't blow up) than the Bergers, but it was very close. I did find that the 147s were easier to load for, but overall performance was better with the heavier bullets.

 

[atepointer]

When I was shooting the 153gn ATips, the box said 1-7.5 twist minimum. They also published 6.5PRC load data showing velocities of 2950-3050. But if you put those together, it spins faster than their recommended max.

I've only shot them in a 6.5 PRC at higher speeds (i.e., 2950 to 3050) in a 1:7 barrel, but they both shot well with a SAAMI chamber. They are very long bullets, so the bullet position in the cartridge in not optimal if you use a short action. I got slightly better precision with the ATips (when they didn't blow up) than the Bergers, but it was very close. I did find that the 147s were easier to load for, but overall performance was better with the heavier bullets.

Are your thoughts on the SA/bullet position b/c of needing to load in an SA mag or were they so long that even single loading block shooting causes you to cram them in? I bench rest single feed so as I keep looking into one of these 7.5t options want to make sure I don't run into that, but am hoping you are alluding to needing mag feeding.

 

[GBMaryland]

In the case of the ARC CDG and the Sako TRG-22, you get plenty of extra room. Specifically if you are using AW mags, and standard Sako mags.

 

[acourvil]

Are your thoughts on the SA/bullet position b/c of needing to load in an SA mag or were they so long that even single loading block shooting causes you to cram them in? I bench rest single feed so as I keep looking into one of these 7.5t options want to make sure I don't run into that, but am hoping you are alluding to needing mag feeding.

For short action mag feeding. I was limited to 2.95 OAL by the mag. For single feeding, I could have gone longer. For the SAAMI chamber, I could have gone to 3.035 (to jam) if I was single feeding. For single feeding or a long action, I would consider a longer free bore than the SAAMI chamber, but I never modeled that so I don’t know how much longer.

 

[atepointer]

For short action mag feeding. I was limited to 2.95 OAL by the mag. For single feeding, I could have gone longer. For the SAAMI chamber, I could have gone to 3.035 (to jam) if I was single feeding. For single feeding or a long action, I would consider a longer free bore than the SAAMI chamber, but I never modeled that so I don’t know how much longer.

Ok great thanks for clarifying appreciate it.

 

[Mtblackdog]

Searched for 147 ELDM jacket separation or bullets blowing up/coming apart down range on here and one dead thread with 7 posts about the 147 and another on the 180 ELDMs.

Over the past 2 weeks i've talked to at least 15 people who have experienced both factory Hornady 6.5PRC and reloads using 147gr ELDM bullets coming apart between 40 and 150 yards down range.

June 13/14th and 20/21st I had back to back matches. The NF ELR outside of casper and SnipersHide Cup in eastern Washington. I planned on shooting factory 300PRC 225ELDM for the ELR and factory 6.5PRC for the hide cup. Normally I would reload but I bought a house just before the covid bullshit and i've been putting in new flooring. I haven't even unpacked my reloading equipment. I had time to prep and test the 300PRC which was showing good results, I didn't bother testing the 6.5PRC because I was going to shoot the same lot and barrel that I shot at the NF ELR last year and had zero issue.

At the NF match, the factory 300 worked pretty well, yet one of the guys in my squad (Steve) was going to shoot factory Hornady 6.5prc. During zero, he got 5 round on target which grouped around 1-1.5 inches. Pretty horrible really considering last year that same rifle with the same lot of ammo was shooting 1/2 inch. He asked me to zero his rifle to double check he wasn't just screwing something up majorly. I got behind the rifle, double checked turrets were zeroed, picked a fresh shoot-n-see and broke a shot. Nothing. I had @NoLegs24 get behind me and watch over top to look for anything out of the ordinary. Second shot I took, I watched a banana appear about 6 inches away from point of aim and I hear laughing behind me as he said there was a white puff around 40 yards down range.

View attachment 7381801
I passed the target around to a few people at the match and multiple people spoke up saying they have either experienced the same thing themselves with the 147gr ELDM or they know of some who has had the same issue.

Luckily we drove to Wyoming and most of us brought 2 guns. Steve was able to use a 6x47 which he got some hits at 1400 with.

After the match, we drove home and because the SH cup requires short action calibers, I swapped to my 6.5PRC barrel (Bartlein 5r - 1:8) and had a bunch of factory hornady. It worked great last year so I figured it would be fine this year as well. Fast forward to thursday and we flew out to Spokane. Pulled my rifle out to check zero since I didn't even have a chance to shoot between getting home from Wyoming and flying to Spokane.

Fuck me, wouldn't group for shit and bullets were blowing up just past the 100 yard line.
View attachment 7358289

Here is a link to the video of it blowing up. set playback speed to .25 and quality as high as can go and you will see them pop then impact the dirt


Cleaned the shit out of the barrel to see if maybe there was a carbon ring increasing pressure as velocity was at 3060. Removed all carbon and no luck. still popping them.

This was damn frustrating because of all the time and money spent to get to this match just to have the rifle go down due to factory ammo , which worked fine last year.

@NoLegs24 was shooting a 6.5PRC also, our barrels were ordered together and probably came off the line one after another from bartlein, they were both chambered one after another by Matt at Sawtooth rifles. He hand loaded 140 Nosler RDFs at 2950 and had no issues. The issue here comes down to the 147 ELDM. Factory ammo should not come apart like this.

According to the RPM formula (12/8 = 1.5*3060 = 4590*60 = 275,400RPM) these 147s should not have been coming apart. Anything over 290,000 rpm is the danger zone for bullets coming apart.

Ended up getting lucky and borrowed 2 separate rifles. Most of the match I shot an Axial Precision chambered in 25SST in a manners EH1A and a steiner m7xi MSR2 with a prototype Elite Iron suppressor. When ammo was getting low, I swapped and shot a 6.5cm

anyone else see the 147ELDMs come apart on them?

Ive killed 3 elk, 2 antelope, and 4 deer with the 147s out of my 6.5 PRC. All one shot. 3090 fps. Not a single hiccup. Got about 300 rounds through the gun. Must have got a good batch.

 

[hic28]

Ive killed 3 elk, 2 antelope, and 4 deer with the 147s out of my 6.5 PRC. All one shot. 3090 fps. Not a single hiccup. Got about 300 rounds through the gun. Must have got a good batch.

Depends when you purchased the ammo or projectiles. I was told by some reliable sources the jacket thickness was increased at some point and they haven’t been blowing up as much anymore.

I still have 200 rounds I’ll sell you that will poof.

 

[lash]

If like some of us, you’ve seen them go poof, you’d know. Otherwise you don’t. It’s pretty simple.