i am loading some 243 to do load testing and was comparing data between the Hornady book 7th edition and 2012 Hodgon manual for 95 SMK's and 105 amax's. There is quite the difference in min/max for H4831, H4350, which data would yall suggest to go by?
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Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
- Thread starter FamilyMan
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Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
I went with the Hornady H4350 load data for the 105 Amax and had no pressure signs or any problems going to the book max. I actually ended up at 42.5 vs the 41 book max. 3130 FPS at that load.
I went with the Hornady H4350 load data for the 105 Amax and had no pressure signs or any problems going to the book max. I actually ended up at 42.5 vs the 41 book max. 3130 FPS at that load.
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
I've always noticed that Hodgon's Max loads are pretty low. I would go by Hornady's max loads. Just like VS said, I too ended up on 42.5 of H4350 for the 105 A-Max.
I've always noticed that Hodgon's Max loads are pretty low. I would go by Hornady's max loads. Just like VS said, I too ended up on 42.5 of H4350 for the 105 A-Max.
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Varmint Slayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went with the Hornady H4350 load data for the 105 Amax and had no pressure signs or any problems going to the book max. I actually ended up at 42.5 vs the 41 book max. 3130 FPS at that load. </div></div>
i was leaning towards th Hornady book as well on the H4350 because the Hogdon says max is 37.5 and that seemed too low to me
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Varmint Slayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went with the Hornady H4350 load data for the 105 Amax and had no pressure signs or any problems going to the book max. I actually ended up at 42.5 vs the 41 book max. 3130 FPS at that load. </div></div>
i was leaning towards th Hornady book as well on the H4350 because the Hogdon says max is 37.5 and that seemed too low to me
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Start with the low one and work up </div></div>
And if we do that - correctly - it doesn't matter who provided the starting load data.
I've been doing this stuff a very long time and haven't yet reached the level of looking at book data and judging it too little or too much. ??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Start with the low one and work up </div></div>
And if we do that - correctly - it doesn't matter who provided the starting load data.
I've been doing this stuff a very long time and haven't yet reached the level of looking at book data and judging it too little or too much. ??
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Start with the low one and work up </div></div>
And if we do that - correctly - it doesn't matter who provided the starting load data.
I've been doing this stuff a very long time and haven't yet reached the level of looking at book data and judging it too little or too much. ?? </div></div>
Absolutely! Just remember that manufacturers can, and do, change powder formulations from time to time, as well as load recommendations based on continued testing.
A book, which even if "current edition" can still be out of date due to lead time for publication. Just think how out of date some of those old Garage Sale loading manuals can be. I tend to use the powder manufacturer's website for my starting points. In this current "technology age" it's almost too easy to get up to date information. The rest is up to the loader/shooter to adjust for THEIR rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Start with the low one and work up </div></div>
And if we do that - correctly - it doesn't matter who provided the starting load data.
I've been doing this stuff a very long time and haven't yet reached the level of looking at book data and judging it too little or too much. ?? </div></div>
Absolutely! Just remember that manufacturers can, and do, change powder formulations from time to time, as well as load recommendations based on continued testing.
A book, which even if "current edition" can still be out of date due to lead time for publication. Just think how out of date some of those old Garage Sale loading manuals can be. I tend to use the powder manufacturer's website for my starting points. In this current "technology age" it's almost too easy to get up to date information. The rest is up to the loader/shooter to adjust for THEIR rifle.
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
The best loading book I have found is "Modern Reloading" by Richard Lee. All of my loads seem to be pretty spot on with this one, but again it is all about what YOUR rifle will shot. Many factors change the pressures and velocities you will get in reloading.
Shoot your rifle and find what it likes and you will be good to go!!!
The best loading book I have found is "Modern Reloading" by Richard Lee. All of my loads seem to be pretty spot on with this one, but again it is all about what YOUR rifle will shot. Many factors change the pressures and velocities you will get in reloading.
Shoot your rifle and find what it likes and you will be good to go!!!
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
Any manufacturer will tell you that different bullet lots, different case lots, different powder lots, different primer lots, and different barrels will ALL cause different results.
Thus, you can't just step right up to the plate and load "max" charge. Even there, to every manufacturer, it's still an interpretation. The reported data has to represent what the "data generator" feels is the "worst case scenario".
So, that's why you'll see differences in max loads from the various data publishers. It's an interpretation. A few thousanths of an inch in one chamber to another, or 5 ten thousands of an inch in barrel diameter could cause a significant disparity between test locations.
You have to know your own gun, you have to work up your own load, you have to know how to read pressure signs if you want to "tickle the dragon's belly".
Start low, and work up slow!
Any manufacturer will tell you that different bullet lots, different case lots, different powder lots, different primer lots, and different barrels will ALL cause different results.
Thus, you can't just step right up to the plate and load "max" charge. Even there, to every manufacturer, it's still an interpretation. The reported data has to represent what the "data generator" feels is the "worst case scenario".
So, that's why you'll see differences in max loads from the various data publishers. It's an interpretation. A few thousanths of an inch in one chamber to another, or 5 ten thousands of an inch in barrel diameter could cause a significant disparity between test locations.
You have to know your own gun, you have to work up your own load, you have to know how to read pressure signs if you want to "tickle the dragon's belly".
Start low, and work up slow!
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Start with the low one and work up </div></div>
+1 and I suggest always cross referencing manuals rather than using just one.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Start with the low one and work up </div></div>
+1 and I suggest always cross referencing manuals rather than using just one.
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
Thanks for all the replies and info.What y'all said is exactly what i am trying to do "get to know my rifle" by doing some load development and learning what she likes. a second thought i always hear about a sticky bolt as a pressure sign, can some one describe this to me?
Thanks for all the replies and info.What y'all said is exactly what i am trying to do "get to know my rifle" by doing some load development and learning what she likes. a second thought i always hear about a sticky bolt as a pressure sign, can some one describe this to me?
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
A sticky bolt is simply one that takes greater than normal effort to unchamber a fired case. You'll notice it as you lift up on the bolt handle. Its one of those things that when it happens you will know it.
A sticky bolt is simply one that takes greater than normal effort to unchamber a fired case. You'll notice it as you lift up on the bolt handle. Its one of those things that when it happens you will know it.
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phearkno1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A sticky bolt is simply one that takes greater than normal effort to unchamber a fired case. You'll notice it as you lift up on the bolt handle. Its one of those things that when it happens you will know it. </div></div>
thanks i have wondered about that for a while. I will be starting my load development soon i have the last odds and ends arriving in the mail this coming week.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phearkno1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A sticky bolt is simply one that takes greater than normal effort to unchamber a fired case. You'll notice it as you lift up on the bolt handle. Its one of those things that when it happens you will know it. </div></div>
thanks i have wondered about that for a while. I will be starting my load development soon i have the last odds and ends arriving in the mail this coming week.
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
My personal experience across multiple calibers with multiple powders is that the Hornady data tends to be on the low side and Hodgdon tends to be on the hot side.
In many cases I been able to safely go beyond the max listed in my Hornady book without signs of pressure. With the Hodgdon data I always seem to get pressure signs before I reach the max listed load. Just my personal experience.
My personal experience across multiple calibers with multiple powders is that the Hornady data tends to be on the low side and Hodgdon tends to be on the hot side.
In many cases I been able to safely go beyond the max listed in my Hornady book without signs of pressure. With the Hodgdon data I always seem to get pressure signs before I reach the max listed load. Just my personal experience.
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
"I suggest always cross referencing manuals rather than using just one."
That sounds smart, but is it? Why not use "just one"?
Load books vary so which do you suggest people follow, the high or low charges? Or average them? And, if we average two then it follows we are just cutting an over charge in half. But if a book max load is an overcharge for MY firearm how am I much better off with just half od kof an overcharge?
I suggest always starting with any suggested low charge and slowly working up to any book max UNLESS signs of excess pressure start early. Working that way accomidates any variables of our own rig and components so the source of our loads is irrelivant. Including mulitipule manuals.
I started reloading with one manual on the advice of an old dude who suggested I do it that way until I learned what the smell I was doing. For five years I worked out of that first book and never felt I was unsafe. Only reason I eventually got a second book was to get data on new powders and new cartridge. Now I have maybe three dozen, buy a new one about once a year, but I sure could go back to just one if need be. YMMV.
"I suggest always cross referencing manuals rather than using just one."
That sounds smart, but is it? Why not use "just one"?
Load books vary so which do you suggest people follow, the high or low charges? Or average them? And, if we average two then it follows we are just cutting an over charge in half. But if a book max load is an overcharge for MY firearm how am I much better off with just half od kof an overcharge?
I suggest always starting with any suggested low charge and slowly working up to any book max UNLESS signs of excess pressure start early. Working that way accomidates any variables of our own rig and components so the source of our loads is irrelivant. Including mulitipule manuals.
I started reloading with one manual on the advice of an old dude who suggested I do it that way until I learned what the smell I was doing. For five years I worked out of that first book and never felt I was unsafe. Only reason I eventually got a second book was to get data on new powders and new cartridge. Now I have maybe three dozen, buy a new one about once a year, but I sure could go back to just one if need be. YMMV.
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
Yes, I too suspect that published load data, especially the more modern stuff, is what I'd call 'lawyer-conservative'.
I have also concluded that playing around in the deep end of the load weight pool is plainly a matter of twisting the dragon's tail and not just tickling her belly.
It's rough on guns, especially in the long run. It can quickly gang up on the shooter and break their day; and besides, there's nothing wrong with trying for a milder accuracy node.
I will begin by testing <span style="font-style: italic">downward</span> from at least 1gr below published max to see if accuracy can be found before I hit the published min. I can usually find that at least once. If I can't, I'd actually rather try another propellant before I start tiptoeing around in the dragon's tomato patch.
Greg
Yes, I too suspect that published load data, especially the more modern stuff, is what I'd call 'lawyer-conservative'.
I have also concluded that playing around in the deep end of the load weight pool is plainly a matter of twisting the dragon's tail and not just tickling her belly.
It's rough on guns, especially in the long run. It can quickly gang up on the shooter and break their day; and besides, there's nothing wrong with trying for a milder accuracy node.
I will begin by testing <span style="font-style: italic">downward</span> from at least 1gr below published max to see if accuracy can be found before I hit the published min. I can usually find that at least once. If I can't, I'd actually rather try another propellant before I start tiptoeing around in the dragon's tomato patch.
Greg
Re: Hornady or Hodgon load Data???
One thing to keep in mind is that you will see other pressure signs before you get to the sign of a stuck bolt. Most shooters, will tell you that cratered primers and other things wll give you a better indicator of over pressure.
Personally I do not let my loads get hot enough to stick the bolt, and if they do then that is a good indicator to me that it may be time to get rid of my brass, as it has been reloaded too many times, stretching the case significantly.
Good Luck!!!
One thing to keep in mind is that you will see other pressure signs before you get to the sign of a stuck bolt. Most shooters, will tell you that cratered primers and other things wll give you a better indicator of over pressure.
Personally I do not let my loads get hot enough to stick the bolt, and if they do then that is a good indicator to me that it may be time to get rid of my brass, as it has been reloaded too many times, stretching the case significantly.
Good Luck!!!
