Range Report How can a rifle shoot poorly at 100 but well at 1000?

[jaybic]

Hey folks,

I have a crabby 22 Creedmoor and while working on some load data for it and trouble shooting why it wont shoot well, I have come across some, what is to me, strange advice. The rifle was put together by a very reputable and well known organization using quality parts and seems to have trouble getting under 1 moa at 100 yards. It has shot a few groups better than that but nothing that seems reliable or consistent. Here is where it gets weird to me.

I have had several persons opine that I should not worry about it but just shoot it at distance and I am thinking that if it wont consistently put 3 under a nickel(my other rifles will often put 5 under a dime) at 100 yards why would it shoot further. And its about then that someone will say something like "my rifle only groups about 1.5 inches at 100 but will do it at 800 yards also so dont worry about the close stuff"...and its this that I find incredibly hard to believe, so if it is true/possible, then can anyone explain to me how a rifle that shoots poorly at 100 suddenly turns into a tack driver at distance?

I do understand that some rifles shoot very well at 100 and then fall apart at distance but how is the reverse possible? bullets that will not touch at 100 will certainly not be touching at 5, ,6, 7 or 1000 yards in my mind. Now, that said, perhaps I am very wrong here and would love to learn more so please feel free to share if so inclined.

Thanks for your time and have a great day!

Jamie

 

[Donelan47]

Tagged for a later read but I am on your side as far as i think a rifle that wont shoot at 100 would only group larger at distance! To me the angle only grows the more distance the bullet travels.

 

[stello1001]

When this happens, I like to think it comes down to fundamentals. I have a very hard time shooting tiny groups at 100 but seem to shoot relatively well out at distance. I struggle so much with being able to focus on tiny targets and become a bit paranoid doing so. Another thing that helps me @ long range, I like painting/drawing a huge crosshair so that I can align my reticle to it, this makes my POA extremely consistent. When I shoot @ 100, I don't have that.

Also, what are you shooting @ 1000 that seems to be doing so much better than @ 100? I don't want to say that steel lies, but it definitely gives a false sense of group size. Shoot paper and then go measure, analyze, etc.

 

[eastexsteve]

I do understand that some rifles shoot very well at 100 and then fall apart at distance but how is the reverse possible? bullets that will not touch at 100 will certainly not be touching at 5, ,6, 7 or 1000 yards in my mind.

I've heard that theory before and I don't see how that's possible. One MOA at one hundred yards is about one inch, and at a thousand yards it's about ten inches. It doesn't shrink to two or three. A one MOA rifle/load is one MOA. If anything, it might open up from that at long distance due to other factors.

 

[Matches Malone]

Aim small, miss small. Most issues arise at long distance with poor ES as far as groups are concerned. If your Es is good but are shooting a 1.4 inch group, then you suck, but and as long as the target at 1000 is big enough, you can still hit it technically. Especially when the target looks smaller, and you have to center the rifle on a finer aiming point.

Lastly, parallax tends to affect groups at closer range then they do at longer....so there that, if you aren’t checking for parallax swim, and then crank your parallax to somewhere around infinite for 1000y shot, that could very well make the difference.

It could be a few things.

 

[jaybic]

Quite honestly, my rifle hasnt been to 1000 yards because I cant seem to get it to run decent closer. Sometimes I feel like I may be asking too much of it but I have three 6x47l, a 6BRA, severall 22-250ais, a pair of 223s and all of them outperform this rifle. Accuracy issues with this rifle aside, how does a person say to themselves, "welp, she wont touch 5 a hunnert, better try my luck at 6 or 7 or 8 hunnert and see if she runs there!" I makes no sense to me but maybe folks know something I dont I guess.

I do feel like I am addressing the parallax issue but I will give it particular attention next range day. My target of choice at 100 yards is 1/4 inch grid paper with one 1/4 square painted black with a sharpie. Razor Gen 2 on 27 power, bipod and rear bag. its the same set up that has yielded many good x47 groups in my PRS guns. This is a dedicated coyote rifle which is a custom trued up 700 with a Wisconsin "B" tube, 7 twist, 24 inch in a manners EH6a, TT special. Tried H4350 and H4831sc with 75 eldms, 80 vlds and 88 eldms thus far. Just got some other bullets and some RL26. Copper Creek load development pack on the way also. it shoots ho hum with the 80 vlds but it has 500 rounds on it now and it just isnt where I believe it should be.

In any case, I still cant wrap my head around how a person shoots a rifle at distance that wont shoot up close. I am 500 rounds in and still stuck on the starting line.

 

[stevenc23]

How can a rifle shoot poorly at 100 but well at 1000?

Answer: It can't. If someone thinks they have a rifle that shoots better at a 1000 than 100 they should take it out to Brian Litz and pick up some cash as I believe he had a standing offer to give out a good chunck of change it you could show that it did by simultaneously shooting through 2 pieces of paper at 2 distances.

BUT that doesn't mean that some shooters don't shoot better groups at longer distances for multiple reasons. Same reason why some shooters shoot better groups when they turn down their magnification.

 

[jaybic]

Lol...good point!!!

 

[Ravenworks]

Maybe it's nearsighted?

 

[NamibHunter]

How can a rifle shoot poorly at 100 but well at 1000?

Answer: It can't. If someone thinks they have a rifle that shoots better at a 1000 than 100 they should take it out to Brian Litz and pick up some cash as I believe he had a standing offer to give out a good chunck of change it your could show that it did by simultaneously shooting through 2 pieces of paper at 2 distances.

BUT that doesn't mean that some shooters don't shoot better groups at longer distances for multiple reasons. Same reason why some shooters shoot better groups when they turn down their magnification.

Have to agree, the theory that some rifles shoot better at distance (in MOA terms) has been thoroughly debunked by the intrepid Bryan Litz and the boys at Applied Ballistics. You can run the same experiment if you like: Set up a thin paper target at 100 and another at say 400 so that all the shots will pass through both paper targets. The near target will always have a smaller group than the 400 yard target (measured in inches). The same angle will of course give a bigger shift in POI at distance. Then the effect of muzzle velocity (bad ES) will add additional vertical, and variable wind speed will add a lot of horizontal bullet drift at distance. [The only exception here is “positive compensation” which can be used to reduce vertical stringing but at one specific distance only. This is usually achieved via a good adjustable barrel tuner or top notch load development.]

His conclusion was that the way the human eye/brain combo works, you will aim more accurately at longer distances. So less aiming error. I have found that if i aim at the corner of a small triangular target at 100 i get better group size compared to aiming at the poorly defined center of a 1” red circle. [Also: A 1” circle at 400 will give smaller aiming error than the same circle at 50.]

And yes parallax error can contribute to bad groups at 100 yards. Parallax error has much less impact at long distances.

Get all his books, they are a good read. Lots of useful info in there!

 

[NamibHunter]

On a more practical note: Some rifles are very bullet picky. My most accurate light weight hunting rifle (Howa 30-06 with a pencil barrel) on the very first day shot 3” to 5” groups at 100 with all 150 grain factory ammo, no matter the manufacturer. I was so disappointed. Drove back to Academy and picked up one box of each type of ammo they had, including some 168 and 180 grain ammo. The 168s shot under 1”, but the 180 grain groups went down to 1/4” to 1/2”! Same day, same conditions, same shooter, all factory ammo. Reloads especially Barnes TTSX will shoot through the same hole at 100. [Yes: Not all guns are this bullet picky, it is mostly an issue with pencil barrels. My target rifles with heavy barrels are not like this.]

Just try a range of bullet weight (or bullet types), run a ladder test, and see which load and which bullet your rifle likes best.

If you are not reloading yet, try different commercial ammo, like Berger or Federal Premium Match. There are companies that will send you hand loaded ammo of different charge that you can try. Not cheap but people say they got good results this way.

Of course double check action screws and scope mount, see if the barrel rubs against the stock, etc. And let a buddy that shoots well test the rifle to isolate ‘form’ mistakes.

 

[PAYDIRT]

I hate 100 groups and I don't shoot them anymore.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I hate shooting longer range groups.
My 600 yards groups are about 1.5 MOA for 60 shots.
With maybe a couple darn flyers
I keep reading about people with 1 inch to 1.5 inch groups at 600 to 800 yards.

 

[PAYDIRT]

I hate shooting longer range groups.
My 600 yards groups are about 1.5 MOA for 60 shots.
With maybe a couple darn flyers
I keep reading about people with 1 inch to 1.5 inch groups at 600 to 800 yards.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Most people wouldn't know how to configure a "LASER" for a 0.1 MIL beam diameter @ 600 yards but can shoot bullets that well.

 

[Jerry m]

There is a term LR target shooters use: when the bullet "goes to sleep". Long bullets wobble. SOMETIMES they "go to sleep: at 300-400 yards. I had a 6.5-06 that shared this idea. How to say this clearly: It shot as 'better' at longer yards than it did at 100. Groups opened up less at 600 to 1000 yards than the 100 yard group would predict.

 

[Precision Underground]

It can’t. When people have this happen its because they aren’t all tense and jacked up trying to shoot a tiny group when they get out to 1000. When they are just quartering a target at 1000 they relax and send it. When thy are at 100 they are struggling to hold everything exactly perfect on a tiny target.

 

[phlegethon]

There is a term LR target shooters use: when the bullet "goes to sleep". Long bullets wobble. SOMETIMES they "go to sleep: at 300-400 yards. I had a 6.5-06 that shared this idea. How to say this clearly: It shot as 'better' at longer yards than it did at 100. Groups opened up less at 600 to 1000 yards than the 100 yard group would predict.

Debunked fudd lore.

edit: just to expand, think about the trajectories. A bullet does not know the path to the target. If the paths are diverging at 1.5 MOA at 100 yards, they cannot turn back inward toward the target at 500. The only theoretical exception as noted above is positive compensation, which can only work in the vertical because gravity doesn’t act horizontally, is controversial, and would only work at specific distances even if it’s real. As for going to sleep or anything about stability, stability comes from rifling and is maximal as the bullet leaves the barrel. And if the bullet were somehow magically not fully stabilized at 100 yards, it would manifest as keyholing, not increased group size.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I hate shooting longer range groups.
My 600 yards groups are about 1.5 MOA for 60 shots.
With maybe a couple darn flyers
I keep reading about people with 1 inch to 1.5 inch groups at 600 to 800 yards.

Lol, most don't shoot 60 rd groups at distance. On a warm day, shooting 60 rds in under an hour and a quarter would be foolish. But the more time you spend letting the barrel cool off, the more conditions change, or they do here anyway. I'd say 1.5moa for 60 shots is good.

 

[Rocketvapor]

There's usually a break every 20 rounds while I go down range to the butts to pull targets

 

[NamibHunter]

Litz offered a bounty, a serious amount of money, for anybody that would bring such a rifle to the Applied Ballistics range and prove that groups contract at distance. Litz likely wanted to put a high speed camera on said rifle to figure out what the bullet was really doing on exit. Nobody ever did!

One person (who was very insistent that his rifle exhibited this weird behavior) repeated the two target test on his own (i think at 100 and 300), and found that aiming at the 300 yard target made his groups at both distances much smaller, while aiming at the 100 yard target made the groups bigger! The problem was not the rifle, it was the operator. Brain-eye-finger system works differently at short distance. Probably a combination of optical (aiming at large round targets is too imprecise) and stress factors (trying to shoot 0.2” groups at 100) that make people tense up.

Yes, there is a tiny wobble in bullets when they exit the muzzle, but the resultant change in 100 yard group size is almost nothing (a few thousands of an inch). [That behavior does slightly affect BC and drop at long range, but the effect is just a click or two.]

Stabilized bullets do not exit in a spiral pattern.

[Unstable bullets (long bullets with not enough spin rate) will tumble (tail will flip forward and bullet will cartwheel) and then keyhole sideways through the paper target. Not relevant here.]

 

[NamibHunter]

Getting back to the OPs original problem (his rifle is not shooting well):

What bullets are you shooting, what is your barrel twist rate, barrel length, and what speed are you getting from your 22 Creed?

Bullets that have a very high spin rate (high bullet rpm) amplifies any jacket thickness inconsistencies where the center of gravity of the bullet is slightly off axis, the bullet path then diverges from line of sight and you get poor groups.

Try the new heavy high BC Bergers, assuming you have the twist rate needed. They are made from J4 jackets, which have a more stringent quality spec, or try some custom flat based custom bullets used in the BR world. For example Barts Bullets.

 

[Mordamer]

I have observed people with 1.5 MOA or worse guns shoot at huge 3 or 4 MOA targets that were 600+ yards away. They always come away thinking their gun is super accurate because they hit the plate 4 or 5 times in a row. They could have hit opposite corners of the plate every other shot, but they get a nice warm and fuzzy feeling because the plate rang every time. I think the fact that people shoot at paper targets at 100 yards and steel targets out at long distance makes them think that their gun somehow shoots better at long distance..

 

[Steel head]

It can’t. When people have this happen its because they aren’t all tense and jacked up trying to shoot a tiny group when they get out to 1000. When they are just quartering a target at 1000 they relax and send it. When thy are at 100 they are struggling to hold everything exactly perfect on a tiny target.

this!
People often muscle the rifle more when shooting groups.

 

[wade2big]

Wind error playes a larger role at 1000 yards than the mechanical accuracy of the rifle. A .308 175 gr match king drifts over 10” per 1mph wind at 1,000 yards. The difference between a 1moa rifle and 1/2moa rifle pales in comparison to wind error when it comes to making hits at that distance.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Wind error playes a larger role at 1000 yards than the mechanical accuracy of the rifle. A .308 175 gr match king drifts over 10” per 1mph wind at 1,000 yards. The difference between a 1moa rifle and 1/2moa rifle pales in comparison to wind error when it comes to making hits at that distance.

Lol, not arguing, but when I came here in 2011, there was a general consensus that a 1.5moa rifle could hit at 1K. I remember asking on which shot, and how the fuck do you chase a miss, as in which side of POA was on the rifle itself.
I have spotted for guys at 1K shooting shit rifles and loads.
Carry on,

 

[wade2big]

Lol, not arguing, but when I came here in 2011, there was a general consensus that a 1.5moa rifle could hit at 1K. I remember asking on which shot, and how the fuck do you chase a miss, as in which side of POA was on the rifle itself.
I have spotted for guys at 1K shooting shit rifles and loads.
Carry on,

Yeah it is hard to argue against the truth. ?

 

[j-huskey]

@jaybic

People say a lot of stuff..... some true, some not.

I have seen people shoot the same rifle better at distance than up close. I've seen other people shoot the same rifle with interesting results.....

Instead of asking on the board, I think going to a 1000 yard range and shooting a big target just to see if your best load in that 500 round barrel shoots better at distance would be my next move.....

In my twisted thought process, if it shot average 1.5 at 100, 1.5+ at 500, and 1000, my next thought would be, can I live with this for what I want it to do....

Followed by just how much am I willing to spend 'trying' to find a sub moa load,
Vs, waste that try to find $ or rebarrel the thing, now.

Unless u got the time & $ to waste and really want that challenge....

My cheap .02...
VR.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Yes wind is a big factor.
I have problems with switching 10mph winds,
but a steady 3mph wind that I might call 2mph or a 5mph full value I might call 6 (one mph error) is a .75MOA error @ 1000yds on one shot and maybe correct for a little on the second shot. It's not really that much more than half the width of an F-Class 10 ring.
I get a few of those at 600 where wind doesn't really matter, hope to when I go to 1000 where it does matter.
A few 9's, and really cringe with an 8. But it happens

Think about it. A 1 MOA rifle should get a majority of the hits within the F-Class 10 ring.
Scatter gives you X's.
Add in a one MPH full value error in the wind call and half the hits move left or right into the 8 or 9 ring.

Now, if some of your shooting is just to shoot (some people do that) then spending time and money developing that 1/2 MOA load is sort of free.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Yeah it is hard to argue against the truth. ?

Lol, I look at a guy shooting a 1moa rifle, and question just how finite his wind calls can be, he's always had 5" of play either way , which is never known.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Funny no one mentioned or asked about what magnification you shoot at 100yrds with and at 1000yrds.

Try dialing it back to 10 at 100 and see what you do. Also dial 1mil in your scope and shoot a group with the same poa.

Another trick...do thhis with a friend...get yourself ready to take the shot ip until the final trigger press. Close your eyes and keep them closed, take 3 good breaths and shoot. To this 2 or 4 more times to get a group. Youll find if you really are shooting with a relaxed npa or not. Friend is to make sure you are safe to shoot when eyes are closed.

Id bet money its you and its not just you that it happens to.

 

[eastexsteve]

@jaybic

Followed by just how much am I willing to spend 'trying' to find a sub moa load,
Vs, waste that try to find $ or rebarrel the thing, now.

My next move would be to keep looking for that magic round. Don't always assume that a Federal GMM will out shoot everything else. I have one rifle that will make a liar out of you on this. Find the weight/bullet that shoots the best, then start slowing the load down and see what that does.

 

[Rocketvapor]

When I am developing a new load I use 1/2" dots.
Groups look terrible and are so depressing.
Can't keep everything in the dot

For my 600yd practice at 100yards I use 6" splatter targets and 30X.
Angles is angles.
The target and reticle appear about the same as a F-Class mid range target.
Just less mirage.
I set up as close to the same as I would at 600.

 

[jaybic]

I kinda feel like i just paid 1100.00 to have it rebarreled. It is a 700 completely trued up by an extremely well known company. 7 Twist Bart, 24 inches. TT diamond in a manners stock with the mini chassis. best load to date is 80 vlds over H4350 at 3465fps....CCI BR primers. SD is 8.7 and ES is 19 fps as per the magneto speed. not an expert but reloading since 1984.

 

[jaybic]

 

[Clearlight]

Same shooting position at both distances ?

 

[jaybic]

I have not shot at 1000 as of yet because i dont feel that I have an accurate, consistent load worked up at shorter distances. I guess my original post was this: why would someone even be shooting at distance if the load doesnt work up close....?

 

[Long Range 338]

You’ve got some good advice here. I would take stock of yourself and expectations. Remove any variables and make sure the issue isn’t you the shooter.

next trip out take a few minutes to go thru the rifle and check everything is as it should be. If results don’t improve talk to your smith and ask for his recommendation for bullet/load combo. Often a given bullet won’t work well with a given reamer and the smith can tell you such things. At the very least you have given him the opportunity to give you some input before you call looking for repairs...

your rifle is as accurate at 100 as it will be at distance. Just like our scopes work in angular units so does our accuracy. That .5 moa group at 100 only has the potential for .5 moa at further distance but with more input from outside influences, it is less likely.

 

[Rocketvapor]

And you have shot groups without the Magnetospeed?

 

[j-huskey]

It's beginning to sound like you havent found the 'node' yet that your platform likes. Nice speed and numbers, but if it's out of the accuracy node, no joy.

Had a 6.5-06 Ackley that had nodes at 2950, 3050, 3150, and 3250.
Burned throats out fast at 31 and 32, had to chase the lands, losing the kreiger barrels at 500 rounds.
3150 barrel life was 1500 and longer periods of useful accuracy between seating depth changes.
2950 gave 2000+ rounds and the longest most forgiving useful accuracy periods. That sucked bc the plain 6.5-06 would do 2950 all day long, could load 500 rounds and shoot a lot b4 having to change something. And that's where that ended up, no ackley.

But, finding the node was critical. Shooting crows and other nuisance animals under 1000 and targets past 1000, it was nice to build consistent data, and get lots of good first round hits without having to tweak the loads and data every 100-150 rounds.

Every thing I have owned that put a bullet past 3000 fps ate barrels and required constant adjustments that didnt give consistent data to use for first round hits.
Speed kills.... in more than one way.

Just a for instance, the 375CT running a 350 at 2950 is soooo much fun at a mile, but not a contender for Ko2M. So it's like build a Mercenary, and reinvent the wheel, and watch the Merc eat a bunch of $ and barely get in the Ko2M ballpark to get beat out by a 416 with ease.
I can do the mile thing easier and much cheaper with a 338L and 300 Berger hybrids.

Maybe your rifle isnt going to perform until you drop say a 100fps into the mode it likes. Ymmv.

As far as that strange advice, lotta people say a lot of things. On some of those people, it's always nice to ask them to go shoot with you and show you. Or, like I said earlier, go shoot that load at 1000 and find out yourself.

@eastexsteve
I'm not shooting fed gmm btw. Bulk Privi is doing real good right now.
But I was thinking about trying some Walmart Remington, it's pretty cheap right now.

 

[eastexsteve]

It's beginning to sound like you havent found the 'node' yet that your platform likes. Nice speed and numbers, but if it's out of the accuracy node, no joy..

..Every thing I have owned that put a bullet past 3000 fps ate barrels and required constant adjustments that didnt give consistent data to use for first round hits.
Speed kills.... in more than one way.

@eastexsteve
I'm not shooting fed gmm btw. Bulk Privi is doing real good right now.
But I was thinking about trying some Walmart Remington, it's pretty cheap right now.

That was definitely my experience when I was headlong into the 6mms. Kinda what I told him in an earlier post. Find the best bullet and then slow it down and see what happens. Take that 3450fps load and slow it down one, two, or three hundred fps. It will still get there. And, it will likely be more accurate.

On your second note, the PPU shoots good out of at least one gun I have. But, I never had much luck out of the bulk Remingtons.

 

[FCS]

Hey folks,

I have a crabby 22 Creedmoor and while working on some load data for it and trouble shooting why it wont shoot well, I have come across some, what is to me, strange advice. The rifle was put together by a very reputable and well known organization using quality parts and seems to have trouble getting under 1 moa at 100 yards. It has shot a few groups better than that but nothing that seems reliable or consistent. Here is where it gets weird to me.

I have had several persons opine that I should not worry about it but just shoot it at distance and I am thinking that if it wont consistently put 3 under a nickel(my other rifles will often put 5 under a dime) at 100 yards why would it shoot further. And its about then that someone will say something like "my rifle only groups about 1.5 inches at 100 but will do it at 800 yards also so dont worry about the close stuff"...and its this that I find incredibly hard to believe, so if it is true/possible, then can anyone explain to me how a rifle that shoots poorly at 100 suddenly turns into a tack driver at distance?

I do understand that some rifles shoot very well at 100 and then fall apart at distance but how is the reverse possible? bullets that will not touch at 100 will certainly not be touching at 5, ,6, 7 or 1000 yards in my mind. Now, that said, perhaps I am very wrong here and would love to learn more so please feel free to share if so inclined.

Thanks for your time and have a great day!

Jamie

Powder, bullet, barrel mfg’er, chamber dims....whole slew of possible reasons not shooting well at 100.
Could be a bad barrel.
Have you verified twist rate of barrel?
I’ve gotten incorrectly marked barrels, for example said 8 twist on breech end of blank but when didn’t group for squat and used tight patch, rotating handle cleaning rod I found barrel was a 10 twist. Caca happens, even from very best mfg’ers.
Could be a bad scope.
Have you tried a different scope, preferably a known & trusted second scope? Alternatively, have you moved scope from 22 Creed to known rifle to verify function?
Could be trying to push too fast.
Could be wrong powder / burn rate?
Could be that barrel just doesn’t shoot that bullet well.
Does Smith have a pet load that works in that barrel, chamber, bbl length?
Tried that load?

 

[j-huskey]

That was definitely my experience when I was headlong into the 6mms. Kinda what I told him in an earlier post. Find the best bullet and then slow it down and see what happens. Take that 3450fps load and slow it down one, two, or three hundred fps. It will still get there. And, it will likely be more accurate.

On your second note, the PPU shoots good out of at least one gun I have. But, I never had much luck out of the bulk Remingtons.

Remington comment was a fun poke. I wouldn't by that crap for anything. There is a post in semi auto with a blown out Ar15, Remington ammo. I'm not even going to reload Rem brass.....

Buying some bulk ammo for crop damage and I've been impressed by the Privi. Last lot ran out, so I'm shopping right now for some more. Hope next lot is as good as the last two.
Best to you and hope OP finds an answer.

 

[brianf]

Shoot the dot drill.

Most of the time it’s mental, like everything else.

a group is just a succession of shots, in reality you don’t need the same aiming point

You only need the same distance.
put a bunch of circles (small not 2”) on a paper at 100.

One shot per dot. Then see what happens.

If your at 1 1/2 spread it’s you and or the weapon/load.

If it’s a lot smaller then it’s your brain getting in the way.

 

[NamibHunter]

View attachment 7249708

Bartlein barrels are usually superb quality. You could slug the barrel and feel for tight spots.

With an SD of 8.7 and an ES of 19 fps, you are in the right ballpark in terms of the quality of your reloads.

Just ignore that old wife’s tale that some rifles shoot smaller groups at long range. File in the “Urban Myth” category.

Ask the gunsmith for a bullet and load recommendation, and then explore a fairly wide range (150 - 250 fps) of powder charges in steps of 0.3 grain, and see if you can find a nice wide node. Don’t be shy to give up a 100 fps or even 200 fps in speed, and fully explore lower down the speed range as well.

Perhaps your gunsmith can put you in contact with others that have the same chamber made by the same reamer. Very likely they have found the best bullet/powder combo already.

Good luck to you sir.

 

[Dog]

Bullets that are designed for long distance take a little time to stabilize. Which may look like it’s not accurate at 100, but then flatten out as it goes.

 

[Pappasniper]

My 300's often shoot .25 moa but they dont shoot better at 1,000 or a mile. Shoot the same if I do my part. Ive never found mine to go to sleep, wake up, relax and smoke a cigar then do better at distance. Never bought that talk but was glad to see not a lot of that talk here amongst real shooters.

Good points were made to understand how it could happen to folks: magnification - parallax - pressure on shooter..but no cigar smoking bullets. Thanks you SH.

PB

 

[SBT GMG]

I'm not commenting on close vs. long range accuracy, but it is well known that in some cases it can take up to 200M or so for a projectile to stabilize- and the problem is worse the heavier the bullet is relative to the barrels twist rate. Long range shooters obviously tend to push bullet weight to the high end of the limit.
As an example, in the military AP bullets will often penetrate much more at 300M than at close range- at close range, the bullets are still yawing and on impact the hardened penetrator snaps in half, not being able to take bending stress, limiting penetration. At distance, it may easily go through 3X as much.
The crown of your barrel is more critical than most people believe. I had a rifle come back to my shop that after many rounds suffered a drop in accuracy Eventually I found a tiny nick in the edge of the crown that you could barely see- the owner must have done it cleaning the rifle. I had to use a jewelers loupe to get a good look at it, it was that minute. I recrowned the barrel and that corrected the problem. Suprised me.
I'd closely inspect the crown on that rifle. A nice precise recessed match crown never hurt accuracy.

 

[SBT GMG]

Bartlein barrels are usually superb quality. You could slug the barrel and feel for tight spots.

With an SD of 8.7 and an ES of 19 fps, you are in the right ballpark in terms of the quality of your reloads.

Just ignore that old wife’s tale that some rifles shoot smaller groups at long range. File in the “Urban Myth” category.

Ask the gunsmith for a bullet and load recommendation, and then explore a fairly wide range (150 - 250 fps) of powder charges in steps of 0.3 grain, and see if you can find a nice wide node. Don’t be shy to give up a 100 fps or even 200 fps in speed, and fully explore lower down the speed range as well.

Perhaps your gunsmith can put you in contact with others that have the same chamber made by the same reamer. Very likely they have found the best bullet/powder combo already.

Good luck to you sir.

Good post, and agreed on the Bartlein barrels. They're all that I've used for precision rifles for the last few years.

 

[jaybic]

Here is some info that I perhaps should have included much earlier. Its the ladder test used to determine the load and the target I shot while conducting the test. Maybe youfellaswill see something that I don't