Rifle Scopes How difficult would it be for two noviceish long-range shooters to have an MOA and a MIL scope?

[Iwabolol]

Hey guys, question is pretty much in the title.

My wife is rocking a Vortex PST II 5-25 in MOA.
My current scope is MOA.
We run pretty similar rifles.
I'm looking to get a scope around the 5-700$ (waiting for black Friday sales to drop) mark, but it seems most of them are in MILS. For two donkeys like us would it be super hard for both of us to make our adjustments? I'm not new to shooting, but I am new to tight groups at a distance; wanting to be both accurate and precise. I feel like I'm married to MOA because we'll have different calculations. I've read comparisons and done a ton of research, but it still doesn't answer my question of is it that inconvenient to you and your shooting buddy to have 1 MOA scope and one MILS scope? TYIA!

 

[smoothy8500]

Yeah it can be a bit challenging. Like you I was a long time MOA shooter, years of NRA Highpower and F class. You will soon learn the shortcuts to converting your mils when giving corrections to an MOA shooter. Since you are already familiar with MOA it should be easy. The learning curve for you in mils will come easy also.

 

[Iwabolol]

Yeah it can be a bit challenging. Like you I was a long time MOA shooter, years of NRA Highpower and F class. You will soon learn the shortcuts to converting your mils when giving corrections to an MOA shooter. Since you are already familiar with MOA it should be easy. The learning curve for you in mils will come easy also.

Would you recommend just doing my best to stick to MOA then? If something like the Match Pro ED goes on sale, I might have a hard time saying no though....

 

[smoothy8500]

Well, if all you will ever do is plain old target shooting at known distance with other MOA shooters, then stick with that.

If you think you will do something like PRS or other practical action shooting, attend long range classes, etc. Then mils is the way to go. Everyone in that realm uses mils. Besides, weaponized math and using mph wind speeds for dope is all mils too.

 

[Iwabolol]

The problem with prs matches and anything of the like is that, to put it very lightly, my state doesn’t care at all about my 2A rights. Closest PRS match this year was over 250 miles away. I’d love to check it out at least once, but I highly doubt I’d become a regular.

 

[BurtG]

Just sell stuff and switch to mil

 

[Rob01]

Inconvenient? Makes spotting and calling corrections a little harder at first but not impossible. Other than that it's just a different number in a ballistic program. She needs data switch to MOA and if you do then switch to mil. Or if you both have ballistic programs it's no different and you just run your data. We used to run scopes with mil reticles and moa knobs and made it work. I think you will be fine with mils and her with moa but as mentioned you could sell and buy in mils if you really wanted to have both the same.

And neither is going to make you shoot more accurately at long range than the other.

 

[KYAggie]

Dude, you have to get a MIL scope; MOA is the language of a woman…….just saying. After all, the book “Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus” could have been titled “Men think in MILS and Women think in MOA” and it would have meant the same exact thing.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Just sell stuff and switch to mil

This is the right answer.

 

[Makinchips208]

Well, if all you will ever do is plain old target shooting at known distance with other MOA shooters, then stick with that.

If you think you will do something like PRS or other practical action shooting, attend long range classes, etc. Then mils is the way to go. Everyone in that realm uses mils. Besides, weaponized math and using mph wind speeds for dope is all mils too.

Weaponized math works for moa or mil, as well as meters or yards.

To the OP, I use moa on most stuff because that’s what all my partners in crime use.
Aside from that I personally would use mils exclusively.

 

[Long Range 338]

Probably end in fights…. But pure comedy for others to watch!

 

[adubeau]

I switched from MOA to MILS and can go back and forth between them - I did not find it difficult to do.

 

[acourvil]

It depends on how you think about it, and whether you will confuse yourself. I shoot MOA and most of the people I shoot with shoot MIL. It doesn't bother me at all, it's pretty easy to do a rough conversions in my head. But it is a little easier if you are shooting the same flavor as people you are comparing notes to.

Contrary to what a lot of people claim, the math for MOA ballistics is exactly the same as the math for MIL ballistics, and all popular ballistics programs will do it either way.

 

[johnnyvw]

Biggest issue is keeping your DOPE notes seperate and for the correct rifle. I recently did this mix-up...why TF is my rifle shooting so high on the berm?
At some point I'm selling off my MOA stuff just for consistancy sake. If I was doing it all over again, I would never mix the two.

 

[saddlerocker]

Just throwing it out there that in the $500-700 range there are a few deals already in MOA
Burris XTR 2 4-20x50 or 5-25x50 $600 @Natchez/EuroOptic
Zeiss Conquest V4 6-24x50 $800 @MIDWAY

I just got the Burris, but may return for the Zeiss

I assume you checked out the Under $700 Scope thread

 

[Long Range 338]

Contrary to what a lot of people claim, the math for MOA ballistics is exactly the same as the math for MIL ballistics, and all popular ballistics programs will do it either way.

Not sure what you mean. But of course math is math…. But your same calculations for MIL are not the same as MOA.

But if you’re not doing any math and leaving it all to the ballistic calculator, it is just inputs and your units are easily changed to MIL/MOA/Inches

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

If you are thinking angles instead of inches, and have a decent reticle in each scope, all MOA or all MIL is not an issue.

If you are shooting with people who use MIL, virtually cross helping each other out is pretty much impossible. It’s not apples and oranges, it’s apples and beef steak. Or apples and Cobalt 60.

I was a long term MOA shooter. Being dislexic to boot made making corrections a real nightmare, even considering I al also a former mortar man and know Bracketing. Always thought in inches and trying correlate how many inches to hold for ex number of yards and put the correct setting on the turret. It just does not work. At my son’s urging, several years ago, I switched to MIL and Christmas tree reticles, and now it is so much easier to make corrections, make and share wind calls, just figuring out what errors are happening in shooting.

So, I would recommend going to MIL for both, if not, stay with MOA, but whatever you do, think angles, not inches.

Final thought. Using a MILRAD reticle, Shooting multi range 400 to 1050 yard stage in a match on Saturday. Wind call needed to hold a half mil in the crosswind. Half mill at 400, half mil at 1050, on target at every range. Easy, simple, simply the way to go. Paraphrasing ole Wolfman Jack in the Guess Who record, “Clap for the Wolfman,” You got the wind baby, I got the angle.

 

[smoothy8500]

Wind call needed to hold a half mil in the crosswind. Half mill at 400, half mil at 1050, on target at every range

Hmmmm, MOA never seems to work that way….fascinating.

 

[acourvil]

. But your same calculations for MIL are not the same as MOA.

The calculations are the same, the numbers are different. If you find one set of numbers is easier for you to think about than another set, you should do what is easiest for you.

 

[6.5SH]

If the OP is looking for a reason to change to all MIL the "gun MPH" wind method and the much simpler math around it is usually the item that convinces someone.

 

[Long Range 338]

The calculations are the same, the numbers are different. If you find one set of numbers is easier for you to think about than another set, you should do what is easiest for you.

Well that would depend on what you are calculating…. Not trying to sway you in any way, just being meticulous in the details.

 

[stanley_white]

Hey guys, question is pretty much in the title.

My wife is rocking a Vortex PST II 5-25 in MOA.
My current scope is MOA.
We run pretty similar rifles.
I'm looking to get a scope around the 5-700$ (waiting for black Friday sales to drop) mark, but it seems most of them are in MILS. For two donkeys like us would it be super hard for both of us to make our adjustments? I'm not new to shooting, but I am new to tight groups at a distance; wanting to be both accurate and precise. I feel like I'm married to MOA because we'll have different calculations. I've read comparisons and done a ton of research, but it still doesn't answer my question of is it that inconvenient to you and your shooting buddy to have 1 MOA scope and one MILS scope? TYIA!

I would never knowingly choose a course of action that would make communication between my wife and I more complicated, even in a hobby.

-Stan

 

[NateVA]

I shoot with my father occasionally and he uses MOA. I just got an MRAD scope (had one before but when I downsized all that was left was MOA) and will be going through this same thing. If he wasn't so attached to his scope (and stubborn) I'd get him to switch to MRAD in a heartbeat. How set is your wife on MOA?

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

I shoot with my father occasionally and he uses MOA. I just got an MRAD scope (had one before but when I downsized all that was left was MOA) and will be going through this same thing. If he wasn't so attached to his scope (and stubborn) I'd get him to switch to MRAD in a heartbeat. How set is your wife on MOA?

You tell your Dad that I am 75 years old, I made the switch and now am totally sold. I‘ve been shooting since 1953 and shooting scopes since 1964. Using Frank’s angles and MILRAD is so much easier than trying to compute inches on a target 300 yards away and then trying to correlate that with 1/4 MOA clicks on a scope if that is even the actual turret value.

I swear by MILRAD and the infamous Christmas Tree reticles. For a shooter always worrying with inches and is it MOA or is it an inch per 100 yards, MILRAD is a whole new and a completely better way to shoot.

If I can do it with 70 years of shooting experience, he can do it.

(Yes my dad had me shooting a .22 at five years of age under his supervision.)

 

[spife7980]

The easy conversion is .3 mils = 1 moa.
Just multiply or divide by 3 to get a good enough correction.

 

[Makinchips208]

…trying to compute inches on a target 300 yards away…

You understand mil and it works for you, so I’m not singling you out sir, but in general many shooters do this exact thing. This is the wrong way to look at an angle, whether moa or mil. And is the reason moa seems confusing to shooters in general.
Moa is an angular value.
Milradian is an angular value.

Going to mil forces people away from thinking of ‘inches on the target’ so it breaks the old ways.

 

[NateVA]

Going to mil forces people away from thinking of ‘inches on the target’ so it breaks the old ways.

I'm with you guys on that. Neither scope adjusts in inches so I don't need to think about inches. I like MRAD just because when I use MOA I feel like I'm doing slightly more annoying fractions when rounding drop values at an intermediate distance and then dialing it into my scope. That and I feel like reticles are designed with MRAD as the base and then they change them to work with MOA so reticles just seem better to me in MRAD. For him I think he'd be fine with MRAD but that would require selling his favorite scope which he'd hate. I'd love to leave MOA behind though.

 

[Iwabolol]

I would never knowingly choose a course of action that would make communication between my wife and I more complicated, even in a hobby.

-Stan

Best input in the thread lol. I think what I'm going to do is pick up an MOA scope this time around from the feedback I'm getting. Once I get a new rifle (hopefully early next year!) I'll switch to MILS and learn both. If I really love it I'll buy / resell some stuff to switch my bolt guns over! I appreciate all of your input, guys!

 

[Taylorbok]

I agree with selling both scopes and buy 2 new. It always makes sense to shoot the same as your shooting partner but if you are planning on switching anyways the sooner the better. If you buy another MOA scope now and have to sell it later it's just gonna cost you more money overall. Buy once cry once. Or Buy a Mil scope now on sale and wait until you can afford another one to put it on.

 

[Iwabolol]

I agree with selling both scopes and buy 2 new. It always makes sense to shoot the same as your shooting partner but if you are planning on switching anyways the sooner the better. If you buy another MOA scope now and have to sell it later it's just gonna cost you more money overall. Buy once cry once. Or Buy a Mil scope now on sale and wait until you can afford another one to put it on.

also a good idea!

 

[45-90]

Use what ya have, become proficient with it. And that's exactly what happens when ya spend alot of time on it...it becomes easy.
I used mildots with MOA turrents for years. Still have a few of those old scopes. Most of the new ones are mixed some mil, mil or moa, moa, matching reticles and turrents.