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Maggie’s How do so many people make a living making nothing

oregon

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 9, 2011
71
0
60
Portland, Oregon
www.designavs.com
As SH is global, want to say up front this is written about the USA. From the inside by someone old enough to know.

There are so many ways to make a living. Public and government jobs are thriving. Yet when look around so many people in them do not actually create anything real.

Seems too many paper pushers punching computer keys with a government paid cell phone possibly in company vehicles going between offices doing things like: monitoring, training, counting, answering, regulating, designating, qualifying, collecting, visiting, meeting, taxing, investigating, litigating, ruling, observing ... all sucking good money making bad decisions often with limited natural resources.

Basic things like drinking water, population, pollution, and fuel (oil, coal, wood, etc.) are going to become bigger future global problems.

Are the surprises from natural disaster bigger or do they make a bigger deal out of them now so more people make a living when they do?

Most of the industry where things are actually created is moving outside the USA for lower cost labor. Computer manufacturing, steel, chips, boards, systems, software, and ... Often technology gets created in the USA. Then with government investments outside the USA perfected and produced creating industry with the jobs outside the US - maglev trains are an example. China could not buy fast Intel computer chips a few years ago now they can buy the chips, have trained their people in our schools, Microsoft gives up their source code to sell there, and now China companies buy the EDA tools to create from a few US companies who need to make dollars to keep doors open. Now EDA simulation designers in China / India with experience are $7 per hour and all the chips, boards, systems,and software is being made overseas. Right next to all the steel, and ... World power has moved elsewhere no matter what we say in the USA.

The US Government regulates free trade so citizens can not get some of the best products for reasonable prices. For example, tax tariffs double the price of the best french products such as Pommeray mustard I never can convince myself to afford anymore.

I used to be able to get good deals on goods overseas, like Kef speakers from England. The US dollar has done so poor in the last decades against the Euro it has become hugely expensive to travel in Europe even though have places to stay and tipped the balance of trade outside the USA maybe forever. Airbus is giving Boeing a run for their life.

US Democrat and Republicans all seem to act the same and no one has unique new needed ideas. They are the same, the current US system beats all politicians into the same mold. So there are no creative thinkers, who are visionary enough to determine needed changes then enable them.

Mortgage, investment, and banking rules are always changing often through government regulation creating the wrong kind of jobs. When if the change didn't happen these people would have to do something else probably more useful to humanity in the long run.

The food we eat in our stores and restaurants is not a known thing. Legal poison. For example, Monsanto BST fortified milk is an example that started in the mid 90s with FDA approval was mixed into the entire milk system - the fox news team couple got fired in Tampa when broke the story so was swept under the rug after as taboo news for anyone else to cover.

When bad things happen and mistakes are made in this country. Things end up in court and that creates more government jobs. Where people are paid big bucks to make nothing.

Educators can do better and do not guarantee jobs for graduates, yet have a guaranteed pay check with some of the best retirements anywhere.

Looking around see big buildings, roads, water, and airways with way too many people not really doing anything when think about it. <span style="color: #009900">{added to clarify as this sentence was being taken wrong. Not criticizing infrastructure builders as they make something. While some are wasteful. And new contracts always seem given to the already rich already retired to put extra in their pockets. Those needing jobs doing the work making things do not ever see big money as those who don't need more get richer - but that is another thread. What was meant when written is see lots of people 100s of thousands (maybe millions) every day moving around in existing infrastructures spending money to have the latest communications in kept up to date modern transportation burning fuel in cars, boats, aircraft, and huge buildings. So many people in: the field, cities, private sector, public sector, ... apparently working together in huge masses moving around while most are not creating anything in the end. Simply communicating, having a temperature controlled desk to work at, the most modern computers, contracts in place for new office equipment every 3 years (printers, scanners, faxes, servers, phone systems, cell phones, etc), and getting people to apparent work locations where nothing is produced. Every day in the USA there is huge amounts of needless wasteful spending disguised as 'business' as well as 'government' where no new results ever come out to show for the huge amounts of money spent. To milk the country and not produce anything real seems normal too often here.}
</span>
Other countries have better health care for less spent. While the huge number of medical professionals in this country make very good livings every year for not keeping up with the rest of the world. Where people are not as well taken care of for the money as they could be.

The average US citizen is in their own little world not realizing how good they have it. Most have never traveled to a third world country or camped without running water. When two thirds of the world does not have running water, power, and refrigeration.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #3333FF">How can this continue with so many people making great wages creating nothing?</span>
</span>
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

Oregon, I know where you are coming from, but I disagree with you.

Lets take an exaple you gave...such as roads....roads need maintenance, and you cant DIRECTLY maintain a road with a pen, paper or a keyboard. You can, however, make the work-load on the man with a shovel or a tamper a lot lighter...with a keyboard, pen and paper.

You take the responsibility of an entire job...and split it up.
You dont need to be able to endure hot summer afternoons to deliver asphalt or handle billing or maintain trucks and equipment.

Now lets go from something tangible like roads....to something less tangible, such as...hell, I dont know, an investment firm.

Alot of the responsibilits I listed apply here too....
Billing, research in trends, advertiesment. One guy CAN do it all, but a bunch of guys, focused on thier individual task can do it much better.

They dont create anything tangible. But none the less, the man who signs their check hardly cares.
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

The OP has it right on the nose. I am in Construction and have said for years we have to many Thinkers and not enough Doers.

If the .Gov would have invested those Trillions they gave to the Banks and Auto, into the Infrastructure the Economy would have burped and that would have been it.
What the .Gov did was basically give the Trillions as an unsecured loan. They are hoping they get it back with interest.

How many people did this put to work?

If this would have went to Heavy Highway and such it would have put Millions back to work in six months.

For example Lets build one Bridge the numbers are staggering at how many people it would put back to work. It would actually start with some Thinkers and then trickle down to the Doers. Like the IT guys, Lumberjacks to the Sawmill, to the Steel Miners to the Steel Mill. Trucking for Shipping and then to the Construction of the Bridge. Concrete, Nails, Hand Tools. The list could go on.

All of these people that worked to build this one Bridge then spend their Money on other stuff. Cars, Houses, toys.

I hope this is not viewed as a Political statemnet. It's just a fact of Life that we can't get away from.
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

One thing in particular that you said:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Airbus is giving Boeing a run for their life.</div></div>

Airbus is heavily, and sometimes illegally, subsidized by the EU governments to keep those workers employed. The only reason that they had a prayer of coming in at a reasonable cost on the new KC-X Tanker was because they sorely underbid the contract knowing that they would "budget over-run" and they were also being given several billion under the table by the French gov't.

That's how badly the French wanted into the US Defense budget, the contract was very lucrative, but it was also precedence setting.

It's not only because the dollar is faltering and in some places completely falling down that we are seeing these things happen. Other countries are in just as rough of a shape as we are. The morons in charge, that were elected by the window lickers of this country have decided "let's be like Europe!"

Our country is NOT like Europe and it was designed from the start NOT TO BE EUROPE. Sadly we're going towards them more and more each day.
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

I think you are missing quite a big point: support. The military knows all too well that for every "doer" there is a fleet of support staff to get them the supplies, training, medical necessities, food, shitters, etc. to "do" effectively. I am an engineer now so I don't technically make anything. However, without me the construction workers couldn't build the project correctly/safely/cost effectively.

We've become a nation of consumers. On the global scale, the USA doesn't produce shit. As much as people say they are mad that the USA is losing jobs to overseas countries they sure aren't mad about the cheap price of things. Everyone wants to make a bunch of money and pay very little for their goods. You can't have both.
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

You could have stopped right here:

"The average US citizen is in their own little world not realizing how good they have it."

Manufacturing is the only way to improve things. And I mean doing it without .gov incentives. The incentives, just like public infrastructure, do nothing to improve the economy for the day after the incentive ends.

When you take raw materials from the ground, and make them into a final product, you are creating wealth. That wealth gets paid to the workers. Those workers now have money to buy more things, and the cycle builds from there. Any time the .gov spends money, from incentives to infrastructure, the opposite happens.

We keep hearing that "people don't want to do this work here." Really? I bet a lot of people would like to work in steel mills again. Or shoe factories. What they really mean, is "people don't want to do this work here for the same price as someone in (name your third world country) will do the work for".

We need the big banks and investment firms to back off from demanding stock dividends every quarter. Companies need to be able to reinvest, in this country, to stay ahead. Mutual fund managers care only about their numbers this quarter, they can sell that stock off once they squeeze it dry.

To the OP - do some more research on health care. Yes, other countries have better access to doctors. But their survival rates for a lot of problems is much less than here. My wife had breast cancer, so I'll use that as an example:

At age 40 she had a mamogram that showed some spots. They ordered a biopsy. Then an MRI. Then an MRI biopsy. The results confirmed that she has no tumors, but multiple spots. The only way to get it all was a double mastectomy and reconstructive surgery.

In France, no mamograms before age 50 for any reason. No MRI for any reason at any age. Mastectomy is a last resort. Breast cancer survival rate is somewhere around 5 in 10.

In England, even less care was available, and survival rate is 3 in 10.

Survival rate here is 9.5 in 10. And for the type of cancer my wife had, she would not have made it to 50 and would never had developed "lump" type tumors (which doctors in France and England use to determine the need for a mamogram) unless she developed a second type of cancer.

The bottom line is this - sure, everyone in those countries can go to the doctor. But there is a difference between seeing the doctor and getting quality healthcare.

And this brings us back to manufacturing. If we had more people working, and their employers paying insurance, we would have fewer people going to the doctor and passing the bill to the .gov.

All of this can't go on forever. When it fails, it will be ugly.
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

Thank you all for positive additions and comments. Was just venting in general at "Maggie's Drawers Bar & Grill while looking at the bottom of a glass". Not trying to be specific just make a general observation about the USA backed by factual examples on something real that concerns me. Instead of telling a joke. The kind of comment would make at a tavern with locals to start positive constructive conversation over a beverage - something people who can make a difference may think about later when it matters.

bohem, so right on about Airbus. And there are other examples including maglev trains. Their governments give them just that bit of extra boost to get them just ahead of US companies who predictably run only on profit. Until US companies go under then can raise prices to recoup initial expenses owning a global unregulated monopoly to dominate for decades. Monopoly is a US-only invention limiting only those doing business in the USA who are most successful, when the rest of the world banking / governments like the m-word so will do whatever they can in the fights to win for the long-term. Possibly the US banking world needs to have more long-term vision, while US government regulation often kills monopolies here so why would more banks invest big in something long-term when guaranteed to fail if win. History shows, the US government will step in and investigate and break up if anyone here has too much success like was done to the original AT&T. Microsoft, Intel, and others when earn success get investigated as monopolies here in the USA if everything goes well with strategic business plans. Thus 'creating' more of the bad kinds of jobs for more people investigating, regulating, litigating, and sucking on the US existing systems when doing nothing really in the end.

sled, we do have decent top health care at times in specific areas and glad you had a good experience. Especially with the life of someone so close to you. My comments about healthcare are more general. You are so right in the USA going to the doctor goes with jobs. Unfortunately for 20+ percent of the people, when jobs are not stable neither is health care. The smart ones with options are taking jobs they would not otherwise only for health benefits another 20+ percent? Health care providers in the USA more often react later to make big-money rather than preventing small problems earlier in the first place for small-money. In many countries people see health care providers more often. The new plan isn't much of a help to the masses. In the USA clauses in insurance contracts such as 'pre-existing condition', 'delay to services on new hire', 'limited liability' maximum #s can turn decent savings into huge debt when stuff happens. To the 'unlucky' at the 'wrong time' it is enough to devastate many families forever. Possibly my two favorite shows on US healthcare issues are made by PBS Frontline where they have ways to rate health systems such as infant mortality rates, disease recovery, live expectancy, average cost, etc. Overseas. Then talk about how it is in the USA for some. Can be watched free at the links below clicking on 'watch video' on the right and are called,

In Sick Around the World, FRONTLINE teams up with veteran Washington Post foreign correspondent T.R. Reid to find out how five other capitalist democracies -- the United Kingdom, Japan, Germany, Taiwan and Switzerland -- deliver health care, and what the United States might learn from their successes and their failures:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

In Sick Around the USA, as the worsening economy leads to massive job losses—potentially forcing millions more Americans to go without health insurance—FRONTLINE travels the country examining the nation's broken health care system and explores the need for a fundamental overhaul. Veteran FRONTLINE producer Jon Palfreman dissects the private insurance system, a system that not only fails to cover 46 million Americans but also leaves millions more underinsured and at risk of bankruptcy:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundamerica/

Just making a huge general comment about how I feel that so many make great livings making so little - while consume limited natural resources like we are not running out of them. If think about it makes my stomach turn because feel the average US person doesn't appreciate or notice. For so many food comes from the store or restaurant - such as Subway not understanding the basics of country life. Problems never acknowledged are usually not fixed. Simply making a comment in public predicting the future by gut when hope wrong, that someday the majority in the US will wonder how we lost so much world power. Our ancestors as well as many here on SH risked and are risking life to keep what we have in our laps. What we are doing with it is what concerns me. Thank you to all who serve.
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

Been observing trends for well over half a century.

I became an adult at about the same time as the US discovered offshore competition was finally pulling up even. Before then WWII's devastation had beaten back the rest of the world to the point where an American could put out a shingle and do just about anything, even do it badly, and still make a tidy living.

Once the rest of the world caught up, that changed, and besides that, they were doing it all using brand new plants and tools, paid for mainly with the Marshall Plan. We were essentially fronting the subsidies that made our competitors profitable, and in one way or another, we have continued.

Soon, they undercut our international trade, and our economy switched over to providing services instead of goods. For as long as our economic leadership understood the importance that R&D played in our technical dominance, that worked. This was the regime that founded NASA and put us ahead in space, as well as most other technical playing fields.

Unfortunately, our leadership then converted our economy from producing services to producing voters, keeping them furnished with goods and services independent of their contributions to the economy; and that's what we've been doing ever since. That's except for jumping on hot button international conflicts, and plowing our national product into financing other nations' welfare, especially ones with hostile populaces.

Excuse me, Driver; I'd like to get off the ride now...

Oh, nevermind...

Greg
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

I have 25 years in the Coal mining industry and in that time I have seen our Government regulate our industry to the point of near extinction. And through all this help guess what has happened to the price of a ton of coal, its more than tripled just to stay in business. Guess who picks up the bill, anyone with a light switch or a steel product. It is now cheaper to import Chinese steel than buy our own, from what’s left of the industry.
Now one only has to do a little thinking to see a problem in that, we have an abundance of all the natural resources to make steel right here in the eastern U.S but the steel we use comes from China.
I personally have witnessed the attack on the industry through regulation from MHSA in the name of safety and progress, drive operating costs up 4 fold. And I saw the speech “Let them build coal fired plants, we will legislate them to bankruptcy”
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oregon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Health care providers in the USA more often react later to make big-money rather than preventing small problems earlier in the first place for small-money.
</div></div>

wow, you nailed that on the head. the drug industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, often creating pills for illnesses that dont even exist, prescribing meds for issues you dont have. My wife has recently been converting to the organic food thing for good reason, all the poisons that are in regular manufactured food that is pushed on you that make you sick. MSG's, flouride, GMO's, even something as simple as FOOD COLORING etc etc ARE causeing a health epidemic. Dont be fooled. These are all money makers. Do your research before you buy food. Yes it will cost a little more up front, but pay for it now, or pay for it with your health later. Your choice.

Also, I highly reccomend everyone to watch the documentery (sp) "<span style="font-weight: bold">Food, Inc</span>." Very enlightening about exposing corporate monopolies in food production, which could lead to serious health and environmental problems... Seriously, I dont know how the government EVER made it legal to have a patent on a food product such as corn. Monsanto has the patent on genetically modified Corn amongst MANY other things. And dont tell me it was not dirty dealings that made it possible. It is a gut wrenching/thought provoking documentary.

Regards,
DT
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oregon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #3333FF">How can this continue with so many people making great wages creating nothing?</span>
</span> </div></div>

It won't.
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D_TROS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also, I highly reccomend everyone to watch the documentery (sp) "<span style="font-weight: bold">Food, Inc</span>." Very enlightening about exposing corporate monopolies in food production, which could lead to serious health and environmental problems... Seriously, I dont know how the government EVER made it legal to have a patent on a food product such as corn. Monsanto has the patent on genetically modified Corn amongst MANY other things. And dont tell me it was not dirty dealings that made it possible. It is a gut wrenching/thought provoking documentary.

Regards,
DT </div></div>

Thank you for this recommendation about food. While food is only one part of the big picture. When looked into the movie it seems very interesting so plan to watch.

A link to the HD movie trailer sucked me in at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eKYyD14d_0

Their official website with discussions and more is at:
http://www.foodincmovie.com/

More about the issues discussed in the film in more detail is at:
http://www.foodincmovie.com/about-the-issues.php

To buy it on a quick search the best prices were either at Walmart or Amazon who both have it for just under $13. I plan to check it out the Food Inc movie at my local library to watch free.

More about food issues is a conversation I started on another site a while ago at:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/769495

Chowhound is a great place to communicate if you like to cook and eat. It is one of my favorite food websites. Personally focus on eating basic foods to know what goes in. Also have a garden, make my own seasonings, and devour home made hot pickled anything (cucumbers, green beans, beets, carrots, culliflower, ... ). I quit hunting and fishing for a while and now am going back to eating critters from clean wilderness for my protein when able. When do not get something hunting or fishing try to eat critters raised by friends and family without hormones the natural way.

Further useful food information is ... when picking a place to go out to eat in your local area, to check out reviews and see a map to help not waste money. In recent times notice Google Places is taking off, possibly because so many people have smart phones. For example, if want to get a steak in Portland Oregon (use your favorite city and type of food you are into) can Google search for Portland, OR steak like:

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&...x=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=d8193e5b46b6707

I digressed down the food path so will try to get back on track of the OP. I cook for myself mostly, so when I look at the map and all the dots when do a search for restaurants get back to the general feeling so many people are making a great living doing nothing special using limited natural resources to create nothing useful to future generations. Only maximizing incoming money now is the focus. The Food industry is only one example. Money is the universal language of business, and nothing else really matters most often - when there are usually other considerations ignored. Everyone's focus is in the short term (to make money this quarter for investors as shared above) when long-term important valuable matters constantly get ignored.
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="text-decoration: line-through">Been observing trends for well over half a century.

I became an adult at about the same time as the US discovered offshore competition was finally pulling up even. Before then WWII's devastation had beaten back the rest of the world to the point where an American could put out a shingle and do just about anything, even do it badly, and still make a tidy living.

Once the rest of the world caught up, that changed, and besides that, they were doing it all using brand new plants and tools, paid for mainly with the Marshall Plan. We were essentially fronting the subsidies that made our competitors profitable, and in one way or another, we have continued.

Soon, they undercut our international trade, and our economy switched over to providing services instead of goods. For as long as our economic leadership understood the importance that R&D played in our technical dominance, that worked. This was the regime that founded NASA and put us ahead in space, as well as most other technical playing fields.

Unfortunately, our leadership then converted our economy from producing services to producing voters, keeping them furnished with goods and services independent of their contributions to the economy; and that's what we've been doing ever since. That's except for jumping on hot button international conflicts, and plowing our national product into financing other nations' welfare, especially ones with hostile populaces.

Excuse me, Driver; I'd like to get off the ride now...</span>

Oh, nevermind...

Greg </div></div>

Not sure why you crossed that out as is awesome insight and well thought out. Liked how you put what you have seen in your lifetime. Especially appreciate the part about he Marshall Plan making US overseas competitors profitable with better equipment still continued forward. Possibly got too carried away down the food path in my last post, when should focus on the big picture which is not pretty. And I have the same feeling about wanting off the ride now ...
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D_TROS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oregon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Health care providers in the USA more often react later to make big-money rather than preventing small problems earlier in the first place for small-money.
</div></div>

wow, you nailed that on the head. the drug industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, often creating pills for illnesses that dont even exist, prescribing meds for issues you dont have. My wife has recently been converting to the organic food thing for good reason, all the poisons that are in regular manufactured food that is pushed on you that make you sick. MSG's, flouride, GMO's, even something as simple as FOOD COLORING etc etc ARE causeing a health epidemic. Dont be fooled. These are all money makers. Do your research before you buy food. Yes it will cost a little more up front, but pay for it now, or pay for it with your health later. Your choice.

Also, I highly reccomend everyone to watch the documentery (sp) "<span style="font-weight: bold">Food, Inc</span>." Very enlightening about exposing corporate monopolies in food production, which could lead to serious health and environmental problems... Seriously, I dont know how the government EVER made it legal to have a patent on a food product such as corn. Monsanto has the patent on genetically modified Corn amongst MANY other things. And dont tell me it was not dirty dealings that made it possible. It is a gut wrenching/thought provoking documentary.

Regards,
DT </div></div>


Also to kind of back up your statement, those who are interested in what organics can do for your health. Look into "Max Gerson Therapy" it's amazing what a natural life style can do for you. This man was curing cancerous cells with mega doses of vitamin C and the FDA shut him down.
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oregon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thank you for this recommendation about food. While food is only one part of the big picture. When looked into the movie it seems very interesting so plan to watch.

A link to the HD movie trailer sucked me in at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eKYyD14d_0

Their official website with discussions and more is at:
http://www.foodincmovie.com/

More about the issues discussed in the film in more detail is at:
http://www.foodincmovie.com/about-the-issues.php

To buy it on a quick search the best prices were either at Walmart or Amazon who both have it for just under $13. I plan to check it out the Food Inc movie at my local library to watch free.

More about food issues is a conversation I started on another site a while ago at:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/769495

Chowhound is a great place to communicate if you like to cook and eat. It is one of my favorite food websites. Personally focus on eating basic foods to know what goes in. Also have a garden, make my own seasonings, and devour home made hot pickled anything (cucumbers, green beans, beets, carrots, culliflower, ... ). I quit hunting and fishing for a while and now am going back to eating critters from clean wilderness for my protein when able. When do not get something hunting or fishing try to eat critters raised by friends and family without hormones the natural way.

Further useful food information is ... when picking a place to go out to eat in your local area, to check out reviews and see a map to help not waste money. In recent times notice Google Places is taking off, possibly because so many people have smart phones. For example, if want to get a steak in Portland Oregon (use your favorite city and type of food you are into) can Google search for Portland, OR steak like:

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&...x=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=d8193e5b46b6707

I digressed down the food path so will try to get back on track of the OP. I cook for myself mostly, so when I look at the map and all the dots when do a search for restaurants get back to the general feeling so many people are making a great living doing nothing special using limited natural resources to create nothing useful to future generations. Only maximizing incoming money now is the focus. The Food industry is only one example. Money is the universal language of business, and nothing else really matters most often - when there are usually other considerations ignored. Everyone's focus is in the short term (to make money this quarter for investors as shared above) when long-term important valuable matters constantly get ignored.
</div></div>

thanks for the link. looks interesting. def have to be careful what to eat.

and you are right. it is about profits now, who cares about later.

I seriously dont even know how having fiscal policy that is allowed to operate at a deficit is even allowed. Really is amazing. I understand slow years might put us a little behind budget, but now were talking about trillions of dollars a year. amazing. you are guarenteed to life, liberty and the <span style="font-weight: bold">PERSUIT</span> of happiness, but not to be given something for nothing.

My 2 favorite quotes:

A warning ... circa 1787 re the fall of the Athenian Republic:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money (generous gifts) from the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."


"The average age of the world's greatest civilization has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence.

From bondage to spiritual faith;
from spiritual faith to great courage;
from courage to liberty;
from liberty to abundance,
from abundance to selfishness;
from selfishness to complacency,
from complacency to apathy,
from apathy to dependency,
from dependence back into bondage."

I believe America is somewhere between selfishness and apathy/dependence. tough because the country is so diverse and spread out. Some areas are prob still in abundance, but they are getting sucked dry more and more every day.

regards,
DT
 
Re: How do so many people make a living making nothing

No, but with all that food industry chatter, it looked like a thread hijack; and I was concerned I might be finding myself getting banned again for participating in a post that got too political. I rather suspected I was just pissin' upwind, too...

Rather than delete it all, I opted for semi-subtlety.

In my teens, I dated a gorgeously pretty Hungarian refugee whose father was a college professor expounding on the effects of the Marshall Plan on the European Postwar Recovery. He condemned it. He was an assh*le and a closet Commie. Calling him 'conflicted' does a disservice to all the conflicted worldwide...

I later considered him one of the founding fathers of the movement to bite the hand that underwrites their free speech. Typical Commie subversion.

Lot of that still goin' on... Lotta folks tend to wonder where all that stuff got started. I don't. I don't have to, I was witness at the beginning (of the current crop, anyway).

The Japanese, under Mac Arthur's dictatorial hand, employed a few American efficiency experts, and ended up essentially deifying them.

While the Marshall Plan was a crucial bulwark footing Western Cold War strategy, it was far from without its negative impacts on western economies.

FYI, read up on <span style="font-style: italic">Blowback...</span>. The author gets it.

Again, I didn't <span style="font-style: italic">learn</span> about these issues, I <span style="font-style: italic">lived</span> within them.

Comments about the Democrats are running the country are half right. The Republicans, too; and pretty soon I reckon they'll both run us out of country to run. The newsies are in there somewhere, too.

The issue isn't about partisanship. It's about something a lot more basic than that.

For example, last night's local 'in the news at eleven..." sound byte headlined how there's a debate going on about choosing a state vegetable for New York. Like..., there's nothing more important going on?

I look on my Nation and despair...

Greg