Suppressors How do you carry/track you paperwork to the range or out shooting?

[longtines]

I have a few suppressors that serve on several guns. I've caught myself at the range once or twice without the right paperwork (fortunately not busted). Do you just put a copy of everything in your bag/pack so you are always covered? Taped under your pack? In your pocket?

There must be an easy way. I'm paranoid it will end stupidly one day while I am out trying to have fun.

Thanks, LT

 

[Huskydriver]

I have a few suppressors that serve on several guns. I've caught myself at the range once or twice without the right paperwork (fortunately not busted). Do you just put a copy of everything in your bag/pack so you are always covered? Taped under your pack? In your pocket?

There must be an easy way. I'm paranoid it will end stupidly one day while I am out trying to have fun.

Thanks, LT

What pray tell is the "right" paperwork ?

 

[longtines]

Stamp. Or would a copy in my phone work?

 

[smokin.338]

pdf on phone and clouded backed up...

 

[FuhQ]

I have a 1200 DPI (high-quality) scanner. I scanned the first page of my approved Form 4's showing the tax stamp and the serial numbers of the cans, and store them on my phone in a folder just for that. I keep the originals at home locked up in the safe.

My local range knows me, and knows all my cans are legit, so they'll never question me. But I haven't traveled with them anywhere else yet, other than a friend's house that lives up the road, so he could shoot them and see whether or not he was interested in going down the NFA road. But even then, if there's ever a question about them, I have copies of the form 4's and stamps on my phone, showing the proper S/N's. So, one quick call to the ATF can verify the legitimacy of everything.

 

[vinniedelpino]

In a sleeve in my data book and as a file on my phone.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I copy them at 60% and laminate them. I have a set of copies in each of my vehicles and my range bag.

 

[CountryShooter]

I don't treat my copies as irreplaceable. Fold them in thirds and thrown into the glove box of my truck. I'm not likely to travel with my cans in another vehicle. I have another set, treated similarly, in the bottom of my case that goes to the range on the rare occasion I leave my property to go to a range.

 

[PDXGS]

I don't treat my copies as irreplaceable. Fold them in thirds and thrown into the glove box of my truck. I'm not likely to travel with my cans in another vehicle. I have another set, treated similarly, in the bottom of my case that goes to the range on the rare occasion I leave my property to go to a range.

This.....but who the hell is asking you for docs?
I've been toting cans some for years and have never been asked.

 

[BullGear]

Copies are carried in a small folder inside one of my range bags. Easy peazy.

 

[Mr.Kirk]

I keep a copy in my truck. I was asked about it once by a cop who stopped me with a suppressed sbr on back seat. It wasn’t very formal. Sort of “ do you have some sort if documents for that from the atf?” “Yep, in the back of my seat” “ok, slow down”.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Just "who" is authorized to ask for said papers??

 

[strikeeagle1]

I too use the iPhone / Cloud approach too.

In theory you shouldn’t have to have a copy of an approved BATFE stamp on your person, it is a Tax Stamp, not a License; no more than having a roadside State Trooper requesting to see your driver’s license / insurance card and oh by the way your last year’s IRS 10-40 Form, please step of the car.

The Federal Law states “make available upon request”, so if an BATFE agent (not just any law enforcement agent) requests to present your NFA device documentation, you can “make it available” by faxing or emailing the documents to their regional office or invite them to follow you home to the documents right then if it’s important enough. If using eForms you will not see this information as it is not shown in the electronic application process but is on the standard printed forms.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

You guys are a bunch of “pease look at my papers” weirdos.

Do you carry your tax returns incase an IRS agent arrives while you are earning money?

Does ANYONE have a proven example of an ATF agent arriving on a range demanding to see your paperwork?

“iM a FrEe AmRrIcAn PeW pEw, I JaCk OfF iN a RiTtEnHoUsE FaN cLuB sHrT lOoKiNg At My TaX sTaMp”

*SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED*

here, take my can you stupid cunt, I hope your mother is already dead, lawyer up and get it back. What, you never been detained before? Fuck your feelings.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

This.....but who the hell is asking you for docs?
I've been toting cans some for years and have never been asked.

I agree, never been asked. But based on the amount of grief not having it could cause, I am very vigilant.

 

[BullGear]

I was asked at an indoor range once. First time there, they wanted to see each firearm and ammo. When they saw the can, they asked for the paperwork.

I showed them. I didn't feel threatened, but a little annoyed.

 

[B y r o n]

Just "who" is authorized to ask for said papers??

Any law enforcement officer can, no pun intended.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Any law enforcement officer can, no pun intended.

I suppose they can ask for all the money in Rome. Doesn’t mean they are authorized to see it.

yeah they can detain you. And that’s fine.

 

[loveha]

Copies are stuck in some obscure pocket of my bag.

Only place I have ever been asked to see anything was an indoor range just checking that I didn't have any M855. Otherwise they could give two shits what you have. If a range wanted to see everything I would have to ask if they wanted to see my dick too.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

My concern would be police, without proof of legality, the safe thing for a cop to do is take suspect items into custody and let the lawyers sort it out.

You can say it is BATF issue, but then you may have to wait while they contact them for disposition or be held until they can arrive.

Best to he prepared.

 

[B y r o n]

I suppose they can ask for all the money in Rome. Doesn’t mean they are authorized to see it.

yeah they can detain you. And that’s fine.

As former law enforcement officer, if you want to spend the weekend in jail because you are not complying with a federal law before you see a judge, do whatever makes you feel good!

 

[FuhQ]

As former law enforcement officer, if you want to spend the weekend in jail because you are not complying with a federal law before you see a judge, do whatever makes you feel good!

Exactly... It's just as simple to have a digital copy on my phone INCASE, and then after 5 minutes, and proof, I'm on about my way with all my property still in-hand, and not being detained for acting like a jackass.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

As former law enforcement officer, if you want to spend the weekend in jail because you are not complying with a federal law before you see a judge, do whatever makes you feel good

I literally don’t care about former JBT’s

Have a great day telling me stories about things that no longer matter. Will you tell me a story about when gas was 99cents.

The real question is: why do you care about me following your version of the rules? My way works and doesn’t bother your life. Mind your business private.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Exactly... It's just as simple to have a digital copy on my phone INCASE, and then after 5 minutes, and proof, I'm on about my way with all my property still in-hand, and not being detained for acting like a

Better keep a copy of your tax returns just in case.

still waiting for actual proof an ATF agent has asked for this.

 

[B y r o n]

I literally don’t care about former JBT’s

Have a great day telling me stories about things that no longer matter. Will you tell me a story about when gas was 99cents.

The real question is: why do you care about me following your version of the rules? My way works and doesn’t bother your life. Mind your business private.

It's not about me following my version of the rules, it's about what can happen if you don't comply with the federal law. My comment was about keeping those that care about keeping their property in their possession instead of having it confiscated by law enforcement officers, no matter their organization.

Don't worry about stories of when gas was 99 cents a gallon, I can tell you a few when it was 35 cents a gallon, and whether or not you choose to believe it no longer matters it really still does.

What are you trying to insinuate with "Mind your business private" this is a public forum where people are free to express their thoughts and knowledge. If that intimidates you, I'm sorry, but live with it!

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

It's not about me following my version of the rules, it's about what can happen if you don't comply with the federal law. My comment was about keeping those that care about keeping their property in their possession instead of having it confiscated by law enforcement officers, no matter their organization.

Don't worry about stories of when gas was 99 cents a gallon, I can tell you a few when it was 35 cents a gallon, and whether or not you choose to believe it no longer matters it really still does.

What are you trying to insinuate with "Mind your business private" this is a public forum where people are free to express their thoughts and knowledge. If that intimidates you, I'm sorry, but live with it!

you are disingenuous with yourself and others.

IF you cared about Rule of Law you would defend the law. Not the illegal actions of your former paycheck presenter. Sure there is a process. You telling me that my way is wrong and I should bend to the enforcers who are not legally allowed to request my documentation. Sure they can get chippy and insulted and make things unnecessary difficult.

you are the problem. YOU and people like you.

I’m not offended. I’m insulted.

You will continue to think your way of thinking is correct because it’s “the easy way” all while claiming to be a man “of the people, for the people”

you sound like the type of Former JBT who got pushback and relied “okay we can do this the hard way”’rather than taking time to fully understand the rules.

even your previous statement to me indicates this. You knowingly would subvert my rights because you “can” rather than choose the alternative action of confiscating my goods and allowing me to sort it out later.


for those reasons…..I believe you were and still are a JBT. Like the many who came before you, when your perceived authority is challenged you punish and when the courts sort it out you tell yourself “well he choose the hard way”


I ALWAYS challenge your type. And your type always has to chime in and offer “your version of the law”

You should have taken the time to learn to follw logic and not write terrible, contradictory nonsense.

I choose: take my gear and I’ll figure it out later. You choose to belive I should be incarcerated for knowing how to “push back”

YOU are the worst kind of tender.

 

[alamo5000]

I've caught myself at the range once or twice without the right paperwork (fortunately not busted).

Busted by whom and for doing what?

It won't be for having a legally possessed suppressor, so what else are you doing to warrant unwanted attention? The idea that someone will walk up to you, random guy at the gun range, and say 'show me your paperwork' generally will not happen unless someone calls the cops on you (specifically) for some other kind of behavior.

The only time I have heard of anyone being even approached is when an FFL had a few machine guns and they were out shooting on some public areas in the forest. Some local campers called the cops, the cops showed up, he showed them the firearms and he did have some paperwork about those guns in his truck so the cops left and went to the camp ground that called and said everything is fine.

That is the sole instance I have ever heard or seen anyone ever (voluntarily) showing paperwork and they did that just to make the process easier. I won't say don't carry anything but the odds are pretty low that anyone will ask about your suppressor.

 

[alamo5000]

the odds are pretty low that anyone will ask about your suppressor.

I will caveat that by saying if you live in or near a liberal bastion of any kind there might be more people willing to call. That said if you are in an environment where guns are normal (ie not walking around Wal Mart with a suppressed MP5) the chances are exceedingly low.

If you are in California or similar state and somehow have a legal NFA item (if that's even a thing) I would expect more calls to the cops should you flash your firearm and suppressor around.

 

[HeavyAssault]

As @DevilDocAZ stated I'm more concerned with the law as written. Sure I can say my interpretation is going to be different than someone with a badge, but using a badge as the "de facto" Probable Cause method to hold me in jail is about as close to a tyrant as one can get.

Yea....I said it.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

As @DevilDocAZ stated I'm more concerned with the law as written. Sure I can say my interpretation is going to be different than someone with a badge, but using a badge as the "de facto" Probable Cause method to hold me in jail is about as close to a tyrant as one can get.

Yea....I said it.

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to sit and do nothing.

our “speaking” or “typing” is enough to get their panties all worried.

 

[chrome]

Like most here, have owned NFA items for well over 15+ years. Carried and shot them across 20+ states, on state/fed government property, checked them into air planes, transported on private and commercial businesses.

Never been asked for anything.

Act accordingly.

 

[B y r o n]

you are disingenuous with yourself and others.

IF you cared about Rule of Law you would defend the law. Not the illegal actions of your former paycheck presenter. Sure there is a process. You telling me that my way is wrong and I should bend to the enforcers who are not legally allowed to request my documentation. Sure they can get chippy and insulted and make things unnecessary difficult.

you are the problem. YOU and people like you.

I’m not offended. I’m insulted.

You will continue to think your way of thinking is correct because it’s “the easy way” all while claiming to be a man “of the people, for the people”

you sound like the type of Former JBT who got pushback and relied “okay we can do this the hard way”’rather than taking time to fully understand the rules.

even your previous statement to me indicates this. You knowingly would subvert my rights because you “can” rather than choose the alternative action of confiscating my goods and allowing me to sort it out later.


for those reasons…..I believe you were and still are a JBT. Like the many who came before you, when your perceived authority is challenged you punish and when the courts sort it out you tell yourself “well he choose the hard way”


I ALWAYS challenge your type. And your type always has to chime in and offer “your version of the law”

You should have taken the time to learn to follw logic and not write terrible, contradictory nonsense.

I choose: take my gear and I’ll figure it out later. You choose to belive I should be incarcerated for knowing how to “push back”

YOU are the worst kind of tender.

Why am I disingenuous with others?

Why do you believe that "enforcers who are not legally allowed to request my documentation"?

I never said your way was wrong, I just suggested there may be a better way to deal with the interaction with law enforcement.

You can challenge my version of the law but you actually have to deal with the court's interpretation of the law.

 

[chrome]

The middle ground here is, IMHO:

1.) In the very LOW PROBABILITY event that some non-ATF agent asks for your paperwork, and you decline based on their (lack of) authority, you run a higher risk of being arrested and/or detained, albeit for more than likely unlawful purposes, for some amount of time.

2.) If you go down this route, you will hopefully have your day in court and fucking curb check the FUDD LEO and set the precedent that this broader thread above is advocating we all embrace.

Some are willing to accept this risk, some are not.

Another variable is where you live and where you shoot. If you go to ranges where NFA is heavy and regular, aint no one gonna give a shit. I've never been to a range that has ever asked me for any tax stamps.

Me personally, I have scans I keep on my dropbox but those are for my own records, not because I am concerned about a LEO asking for them.

 

[TheGerman]

LOL @ anyone worried about this in their lives

 

[...]

1) anyone who isnt ATF asking for proof of a stamp you can tell to suck your dick.

2) the stamp needs to be "made available upon request"....notice it doesnt say "made immediately available"....meaning you can tell ATF man that you will fax, mail, email, him a copy when you get home.

3) they are tax forms....not "licenses".....do you carry around your W2 with you just in case the IRS man tracks you down for an audit?


you dont have to carry that shit around with you...frankly, ive never once heard of an random ATF agent asking someone for their stamps on a whim...

how often do you pull out SBRs in front of feds?


also, everything has a fucking SN on it,.....if the alphabet boys wanna know if i have a stamp, they can call in the SN and check.

hell, just log into your Eforms account on the ATF portal and you have proof of all your stamps there.

....or just go all ron swanson on them....

 

[acudaowner]

if by paper work you mean notebooks tons of laminated 3x5 cards and boxes of extra pens and scrap paper then oh yes if your talking about anthing that shows ownership of my gun oh hell no

 

[sgtkeebler]

I have never run into legally owned NFA items in 8 years working the streets as an Officer. Most likely because those who do are not out breaking the law with them.

I have run into a few illegal NFA items, mainly after market auto sear on Glocks.

For my SBRs I make a reduced copy of the tax stamp and put it in the grip. If it runs with suppressor I just add it in the grip. Also PDF on phone, as originals remain locked it safe.

 

[Beefmanne]

Why am I disingenuous with others?

Why do you believe that "enforcers who are not legally allowed to request my documentation"?

I never said your way was wrong, I just suggested there may be a better way to deal with the interaction with law enforcement.

You can challenge my version of the law but you actually have to deal with the court's interpretation of the law.

You seem to have an issue with that little thing called “probable cause.”

 

[Holliday]

I too use the iPhone / Cloud approach too.

In theory you shouldn’t have to have a copy of an approved BATFE stamp on your person, it is a Tax Stamp, not a License; no more than having a roadside State Trooper requesting to see your driver’s license / insurance card and oh by the way your last year’s IRS 10-40 Form, please step of the car.

The Federal Law states “make available upon request”, so if an BATFE agent (not just any law enforcement agent) requests to present your NFA device documentation, you can “make it available” by faxing or emailing the documents to their regional office or invite them to follow you home to the documents right then if it’s important enough. If using eForms you will not see this information as it is not shown in the electronic application process but is on the standard printed forms.

View attachment 7689189

So, not being a lawyer and thinking out loud. I don’t see that this says they must be carried always. If you are 6 miles from home and say “I’ll run home and produce it” , are you in violation?

 

[Holliday]

As former law enforcement officer, if you want to spend the weekend in jail because you are not complying with a federal law before you see a judge, do whatever makes you feel good!

What Federal Law exactly?

 

[chrome]

So, not being a lawyer and thinking out loud. I don’t see that this says they must be carried always. If you are 6 miles from home and say “I’ll run home and produce it” , are you in violation?

not much precedent to really fall back on with this, so its going to depend on how the LEO is feeling that day, and their knowledge of the law.

 

[chrome]

What Federal Law exactly?

I would think, if anyone is really concerned about this (and they shouldn't), I'd be more worried about the variances between state laws vs federal laws.

Some states have legislation where SBRs are "illegal" unless otherwise registered with the NFA (like VA, PA, OR). Therefor, a local cop could potentially use this to conduct an investigation into a crime at the local level.

 

[Schütze]

Just amazing to me how many sheep’s there are in this country, on the way to become just like Europe.
Why is there such a small amount of guys accepting the constitution and sticking with the rights your
forefathers gave you? If you’re not waking up soon the constitution will be just as worthless then the German Grundgesetz.

 

[Holliday]

not much precedent to really fall back on with this, so its going to depend on how the LEO is feeling that day, and their knowledge of the law.

Exactly, I am in Wyoming so I don't worry much. If I were in Colorado I would make damn sure I had my paperwork with me just to avoid the hassle. I know if I do get hassled, it's me against them. No ones rising up with a GoFundMe or anything else, because I don't have tits...... Annnnd, if I make the mistake of wearing a BRCC shirt, they will publicly disavow me......How embarrassing

 

[BullGear]

Just amazing to me how many sheep’s there are in this country, on the way to become just like Europe.
Why is there such a small amount of guys accepting the constitution and sticking with the rights your
forefathers gave you? If you’re not waking up soon the constitution will be just as worthless then the German Grundgesetz.

You been here for more than 3 years and have less than 400 post and you want to preach to us all about the Constitution.

 

[...]

Exactly, I am in Wyoming so I don't worry much. If I were in Colorado I would make damn sure I had my paperwork with me just to avoid the hassle. I know if I do get hassled, it's me against them. No ones rising up with a GoFundMe or anything else, because I don't have tits...... Annnnd, if I make the mistake of wearing a BRCC shirt, they will publicly disavow me......How embarrassing

Why do you need a gofundme?

the worst that could ever possibly happen to you is you get detained temporarily until you provide your tax stamps.

fuck, yall act like they are going to black bag you and ship you off to GITMO.

 

[Holliday]

Why do you need a gofundme?

the worst that could ever possibly happen to you is you get detained temporarily until you provide your tax stamps.

fuck, yall act like they are going to black bag you and ship you off to GITMO.

Google "Tongue in cheek"......

 

[Holliday]

not much precedent to really fall back on with this, so its going to depend on how the LEO is feeling that day, and their knowledge of the law.

Ok I hear you but where is the precedent that "must produce" means "must carry"? If you are going on hyperbole, conjecture and/or fear, that's a fair answer.

 

[BullGear]

I need a GoFundMe page. I am in need of about $200,000. I need all my bills paid off so that I can party like it's 1999. I only have 2 feet and 2 hands. How's a guy suppose to do anything with just that?

 

[BullGear]

I love all these John Wayne types and those who developed the Thesaurus on their own. Why live under tyranny? What does produce mean? Did you folks ever read the paperwork BEFORE you applied? There are conditions for you to have your Class 3 weapon.

Don't like it. Change the laws. It's simple.....