Suppressors How do you carry/track you paperwork to the range or out shooting?

[Holliday]

I need a GoFundMe page. I am in need of about $200,000. I need all my bills paid off so that I can party like it's 1999. I only have 2 feet and 2 hands. How's a guy suppose to do anything with just that?

This freakin chick made millions......now has a gofundme https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/t...speaks-out-on-financial-struggles-1234998647/

Please Help My Friend Brett Butler, organized by Lon Strickler

Friends and loved ones are reaching out and asking for fans of actress Brett Butler … Lon Strickler needs your support for Please Help My Friend Brett Butler

www.gofundme.com

 

[Holliday]

I love all these John Wayne types and those who developed the Thesaurus on their own. Why live under tyranny? What does produce mean? Did you folks ever read the paperwork BEFORE you applied? There are conditions for you to have your Class 3 weapon.

Don't like it. Change the laws. It's simple.....

I did read the paperwork. Where does it say "must produce this minute". I am not being obtuse. Are we reading too much into this or IS there such language /precedent?

So if they mandate vax by law you're in?

 

[BullGear]

I did read the paperwork. Where does it say "must produce this minute". I am not being obtuse. Are we reading too much into this or IS there such language /precedent?

So if they mandate vax by law you're in?

So are you saying that when a police officer asks you to produce your driver's license and you tell him, you'll show it to him next week, they will be okay with that? Or a game warden will be okay with you showing them your hunting license next week when you've shot a deer and are loading it up in your truck.

Or if you apply for a job which demands a license and you go to the interview and they ask you to produce your license. Do you really expect to get that job?

I can see an ATF agent asking you for your paperwork at the range and you say, leave me alone, I'll show it to you tomorrow. Do you honestly believe you have a legal leg to stand on? If so, well, we're not suppose to personally attack anyone on the forum

But you go right ahead Skippy and play your games. We'll see ya in 7-15 years.

 

[chrome]

Ok I hear you but where is the precedent that "must produce" means "must carry"? If you are going on hyperbole, conjecture and/or fear, that's a fair answer.

Yeah, i think we're in agreement, precedent is murky on all of this.

Like most interactions with the law, I can/we can safely assume it is going to come down a lot of context/nuance, specifically your demeanor and the cops demeanor/understanding of the law.

 

[Holliday]

So are you saying that when a police officer asks you to produce your driver's license and you tell him, you'll show it to him next week, they will be okay with that? Or a game warden will be okay with you showing them your hunting license next week when you've shot a deer and are loading it up in your truck.

So you make no distinction between a “license” and a and a tax stamp?

Christ it’s no wonder we lose. We do the ATFs work for them.

I have given you ample opportunity to produce one quote or court case to bolster your point. Instead you produce hyperbole, conjecture and fear mongering.

Ok suppose we are in bizarro bullgear world and we equate a hunting license to a NFA tax stamp. Here in Wyoming it is CLEARLY spelled out that you must carry said “carcass coupon” aka license in the field . There is NO ambiguity.

While you are coming up with your trailer trash insults, what you fail to realize is that I am not saying you are wrong. I am not even saying that I don’t intend to comply with the prevalent interpretation. At my age I don’t need the hassle and I am not dying on that particular hil

All I am saying is show me a case, precedent or something that makes YOUR INTERPRETATION, the gold standard.

To argue your side for you (because it seems I have to) my NFA Trust Lawyer advises to always carry stamp and trust (copies). This is in writing in his trusts.

As for John Wayne? Not on my best day........

 

[...]

So are you saying that when a police officer asks you to produce your driver's license and you tell him, you'll show it to him next week, they will be okay with that? Or a game warden will be okay with you showing them your hunting license next week when you've shot a deer and are loading it up in your truck.

Or if you apply for a job which demands a license and you go to the interview and they ask you to produce your license. Do you really expect to get that job?

I can see an ATF agent asking you for your paperwork at the range and you say, leave me alone, I'll show it to you tomorrow. Do you honestly believe you have a legal leg to stand on? If so, well, we're not suppose to personally attack anyone on the forum

But you go right ahead Skippy and play your games. We'll see ya in 7-15 years.

....form 1/4s are not licenses.....

they are taxes

yes, there is a difference

 

[FuhQ]

not much precedent to really fall back on with this, so its going to depend on how the LEO is feeling that day, and their knowledge of the law.

That's the main reason I have digital scans on my phone... Nothing to do with "being a sheep", it's most cops don't know shit about shit, especially cans and SBR's, so if you can produce undeniable proof they are legally obtained by me, then they'll leave you the fuck alone, and they'll feel like a dumbass for it.

 

[_Windrider_]

I use a data book, I have a binder with other data and a battle board kit depending on what’s going on. But mostly just a simple spiral notebook and a pencil.

 

[BullGear]

....form 1/4s are not licenses.....

they are taxes

yes, there is a difference

They are a permit to own. You pay a tax for that permission to own.

 

[chrome]

They are a permit to own. You pay a tax for that permission to own.

Half joking, half not:

Sun Tsu says, if government can take it away at a drop of a "policy change", do you really **own** it?

 

[JMGlasgow]

My stamps stay in my safe where I won't lose them in a bag or glove box.

And honestly, like has been mentioned before they can run the serial number at the ATF and see that I am the owner, or come to my residence where I will produce them. Even when I shoot in Colorado I leave my paperwork at home, and have never been asked for it.

 

[_Windrider_]

They are a permit to own. You pay a tax for that permission to own.

Actually no. They are proof you paid the tax and they are registered.

 

[alamo5000]

They are a permit to own. You pay a tax for that permission to own.

This is 10000% wrong.

 

[strikeeagle1]

Tax stamps are what seal liquor bottles so the whole world knows a fee was paid to the government to allow its legal manufacture / sale to
the public at large. When you purchase the liquor it is not now a license in your possession, it's absence is what gets moonshiners in conflict with the law.

The little annual sticker on your license plate is a tax registration, not a license in your wallet, demonstrating you have paid the govt for use of public roads, there may be other reasons you are a prohibited driver on said roads. When you purchase the liquor you can be vetted by the clerk to show minimum age of 21; the license plate stamp is vetted by producing a valid owner registration.

In 1934 the National Firearms Act was passed by Congress to have citizens pay a $200 fee to register their short barrel shotguns /rifles etc. as these were menacingly popular with mobsters / gangsters (Al Scarface Capone, Pretty Boy Floyd) of the day to rob banks etc. At the time, coming out of the Great Depression $200 was a huge fee that prohibited most common folks from being able to register such firearms, of the course the crooks didn't care; fast forward to 2021, same $200 fee!

Fingerprints are submitted with the NFA device registration to partially vet the applicant as they don't have the complete current data bases to know if you have some other legal disability prohibiting you to own / possession of the device (you self-report by checking boxes on the application) e.g. fugitive on parole, dishonorable military discharge, domestic violence issues, controlled substances arrest etc etc.;
BATFE tax stamp is proof you paid-to-play and posess legally at the Federal level, not a license to play.

 

[mark5pt56]

In Virginia, it's in the state code also. Had this one time with the typical tuff guy, yeup, goatee and bro dozer, etc. Two choices skippy-show the stamp to prove it's legal or go to jail-he had some brain cells.

Pretty simple, don't be a dick and go on your way.

My personal opinion, one should be able to simply check a box on a 4473 indicating it's a SBR or suppressor, don't care on way or the other on the 200. Dealer can submit the taxes collected monthly to DOJ, just like sales tax. Age of electronics, easy to check via name.

oh-reduced copy, rolled up and in battery tube on stock, along with 5320 if applicable

 

[deersniper]

In Virginia, it's in the state code also. Had this one time with the typical tuff guy, yeup, goatee and bro dozer, etc. Two choices skippy-show the stamp to prove it's legal or go to jail-he had some brain cells.

Quote for the brain dead that think police won’t enforce gun bans ^.

 

[deersniper]

That's the main reason I have digital scans on my phone... Nothing to do with "being a sheep", it's most cops don't know shit about shit, especially cans and SBR's, so if you can produce undeniable proof they are legally obtained by me, then they'll leave you the fuck alone, and they'll feel like a dumbass for it.

Yes this^

ive had cans and machine guns for a lot of years. Only got checked by one dumbass Fudd fish cop who was jerking off to my rifle (taking pics in trunk of his car etc ) and was going to “were seizing the rifle cause that’s a silencer and that’s illegal”. Luckily I had someone to bring my NFA binder that luckily included FAQs from .gov websites.

then there’s the states that have laws “illegal unless federally approved “




IDK what some of you guys don’t get. There’s a lot of ignorant cops out there and ignorance of the law is no excuse unless you’re a cop. They can take your stuff ruin your day arrest you etc and they will be getting paid the whole time. Might as well show them a paper and let them take their **** **** ***** ****** somewhere else to the next victim.

 

[JbBooks]

Better keep a copy of your tax returns just in case.

still waiting for actual proof an ATF agent has asked for this.

This! As having to deal with the atf most of my career, either in the oilfield dealing with explosives or the two gun stores we own now, 99% of the field agents give two fucks about suppressors, as a matter of fact most of them want them off the nfa, as it is the biggest pain in the ass they deal with as far as paperwork goes.

 

[mark5pt56]

Quote for the brain dead that think police won’t enforce gun bans ^.

I think it would be by region, etc, down to the individual. Wholesale, no. I know it's a big rabbit hole, one better unseen maybe.

 

[deersniper]

I think it would be by region, etc, down to the individual. Wholesale, no. I know it's a big rabbit hole, one better unseen maybe.

Unless I misread, You said you hassled a guy about muffler paperwork. So there’s one who enforces bs law right there

 

[Swatman]

It really pissed me off that we had a local range that made you show your paperwork if you were shooting a NFA item. These are the same jack asses that made you pay a fee to authorize you to be able to draw your gun.

Local law enforcement can not make you show your paperwork. When they call the ATF to inquire if someone owns NFA items they have to run the request up their chain of command because it is a tax document. Usually ATF agents are only reachable during business hours too.

As far as getting arrested or having your stuff seized, that shouldn’t happen. Let’s say you get stopped, at that point the police have you identified and know where you live. They can run a criminal history on you and make sure you are not a felon. If the NFA items turned out to be illegal they could come back to your place with a search warrant and seize them so they don’t have to do anything at the point of contact. If they sieze the item or arrest you that is a bad arrest and you may have grounds for a law suit. Just because you are in possession of an item that might be illegal doesn’t mean that you should be arrested or have the item seized without a proper investigation. Every illegal silenver that I have seen was stuff like mag light or oil filter suppressors without engraving. Every illegal firearm that I have run across was possessed by a felon. Generally it is pretty obvious from a little investigation when someone is illegally possessing an item.

It is up to you to decide if you want to carry your paperwork and show it to anyone who asks, but remember this is the US and you are not presumed guilty. We train our guys to avoid these types of situations and to not harass legal gun owners.

 

[Ledzep]

The other thing to consider is that some states have specific legislature in place that specifically prohibits certain NFA items (and more, or less), and use the Form1/4 or whatever other federal licensing as your "get out of jail free card". In which case, it may be within the jurisdiction of the state/local officers to check your paperwork.

Ranges, match directors, other shooters, karens, etc.. can fuck right off.

FWIW I made copies of them and keep them in a plastic binder sleeve in the back of my range pack. Easy enough, out of the way... never been asked to see any of it.

 

[Baron23]

Wow, I do wonder about all of the "all balls, no forehead" crowd who are proudly "not sheeple" and want to wipe a cops eye over showing NFA paperwork.

You guys do you.....me, I view it differently.

Yes, there is absolutely zero requirement in law or regulation to show law enforcement, other than the ATF, your paperwork.

And the time to object and fight this is after you have shown the cop, who is ignorant of the law/regs or is just being an asshole, and sent him on his way.

As Warren Zevon famously sang (well, famous to me):

You know, the Sheriff's got his problems too​

He will surely take them out on you​

You want to see who can piss higher on the tree with a cop, be my guest and I hope the food in the local jail is good.

Cheers

 

[...]

You want to see who can piss higher on the tree with a cop, be my guest and I hope the food in the local jail is good.

Cheers

...and ill enjoy a nice steak when i get my settlement for unlawful arrest...

for all the "shall not be infringed" and "fuck covid passports!" and "i aint showing mah papers" people post on here.......a shocking number of you are willing to bend over backwards to "show your papers", fuck, its almost like you guys want to be asked for your stamps.

 

[Baron23]

fuck, its almost like you guys want to be asked for your stamps.

That is absolutely not supported by ANYTHING I wrote.

Enjoy arguing with yourself.....Cheers

 

[deersniper]

You want to see who can piss higher on the tree with a cop, be my guest and I hope the food in the local jail is good.

Cheers

yup.
You can be completely right and still end up hauled away in cuffs. Crooked lying system from the cops to the judges who used to be prosecutor’s in the same courtroom.

 

[deersniper]

...and ill enjoy a nice steak when i get my settlement for unlawful arrest...

You’re high. You’ll pay the attorneys in both sides. And be playing against a stacked deck.

 

[chevy_man]

I've never been asked nor have I ever taken my stamps anywhere.

They're in the safe, where they belong, and I can produce them if needed.



If I get arrested for not having it on me I plan on retiring on their dime.

 

[mark5pt56]

Unless I misread, You said you hassled a guy about muffler paperwork. So there’s one who enforces bs law right there

I wouldn't call it hassling. He was stopped for a reason, not related to the item, had it on a gun uncased and loaded. You just don't agree there should be a tax stamp required and don't like that he had to prove he held the stamp. Oh--yeah-he got a warning since he didn't have a CHP and not exempt from having a loaded long gun in the vehicle.
Moral of the story is don't violate the law, get involved in a dispute and want to get in a pissing match because you don't think anyone can see your little stamp.

 

[deersniper]

Shall not be infringed

 

[aslrookie]

I carry mine with me just out of habit. I had one shooting range safety guy (i was not a member there) that said it’s their policy to check paperwork for NFA stuff. I just opened my folder and he went on with his day.

As far as legal stuff goes, it depends on your state laws for local LE. In my state, the law reads:

Subd. 1a.Felony crimes; suppressors; reckless discharge.​

(a) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced as provided in paragraph (b):


(1) sells or has in possession a suppressor that is not lawfully possessed under federal law;


Therefore, there is legal authority by a local LE to request proof of legal ownership and could charge/arrest if probable cause arises. I’m not a lawyer, just someone who doesn’t rely on forums for legal advice.

 

[Swatman]

So if your silencer is in a trust you have to have the trust documents to show too?

 

[chrome]

Thread Summary:

There are four ways to help educate and/or set legal precedent when it comes to carrying/showing your tax stamps:

1.) Keep copies on you in the event you are asked by a LEO, immediately shut the LEO down with paperwork and hope that knowledge transfers to his lateral counterparts;

2.) Dont keep copies on you, risk the extremely low probability that a LEO makes an issue out of it, enough to either detain you and/or your property, take it to court (depending on your state law), and tap dance your way to a not guilty verdict but go through all the hassle.

3.) Give zero fucks about any of this.

4.) Epstein didn't kill himself.

 

[07SGT4623]

So if your silencer is in a trust you have to have the trust documents to show too?

Again depends on your view point, as read for the last half hour of back and forth. but the my silencer shop cheapo trust paperwork recommends it as well as a copy of the stamp

I keep life simple and shoot on my own property and have no neighbors. I guess I am lucky

 

[elwarpo]

While you may be correct about the ATF, being able to ask for it federally, you gorgot that some states have more confined rules. I was asked for it once by a LEO on a traffic stop. He saw a bunch of gun cases anf in MI you jave to inform if carrying. He asked what guns were in my car and asked if all complied with MI law ( look up MI pistol, a loophole that allowed long guns to be registered as pistols and carried under a CPL). He examined them to make sure they were registered when he saw suppressors and sbrs. I was asked for paperwork, and if I did not comply would be riding in the back seat of his car. I had a copy and was good. MI law states possession of an unlicensed suppressor is a 5 year felony. So unless you want to go to jail, and wait to see a judge and prove it is legal, carry your paperwork.

 

[_Windrider_]

While you may be correct about the ATF, being able to ask for it federally, you gorgot that some states have more confined rules. I was asked for it once by a LEO on a traffic stop. He saw a bunch of gun cases anf in MI you jave to inform if carrying. He asked what guns were in my car and asked if all complied with MI law ( look up MI pistol, a loophole that allowed long guns to be registered as pistols and carried under a CPL). He examined them to make sure they were registered when he saw suppressors and sbrs. I was asked for paperwork, and if I did not comply would be riding in the back seat of his car. I had a copy and was good. MI law states possession of an unlicensed suppressor is a 5 year felony. So unless you want to go to jail, and wait to see a judge and prove it is legal, carry your paperwork.

All silencers are unlicensed. There are no licenses. That law is invalid. It’s a tax stamp. Not a permit. Not a license.

 

[jbuck88]

I carry mine with me just out of habit. I had one shooting range safety guy (i was not a member there) that said it’s their policy to check paperwork for NFA stuff. I just opened my folder and he went on with his day.

As far as legal stuff goes, it depends on your state laws for local LE. In my state, the law reads:

Subd. 1a.Felony crimes; suppressors; reckless discharge.​

(a) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced as provided in paragraph (b):


(1) sells or has in possession a suppressor that is not lawfully possessed under federal law;


Therefore, there is legal authority by a local LE to request proof of legal ownership and could charge/arrest if probable cause arises. I’m not a lawyer, just someone who doesn’t rely on forums for legal advice.

Guilty until proven innocent or innocent until proven Guilty.

Who have the burden to prove?

Edit:
I know some awesome cops and know some assholes that power trip like a MF'r. I've worked with the spectrum.

 

[...]

While you may be correct about the ATF, being able to ask for it federally, you gorgot that some states have more confined rules. I was asked for it once by a LEO on a traffic stop. He saw a bunch of gun cases anf in MI you jave to inform if carrying. He asked what guns were in my car and asked if all complied with MI law ( look up MI pistol, a loophole that allowed long guns to be registered as pistols and carried under a CPL). He examined them to make sure they were registered when he saw suppressors and sbrs. I was asked for paperwork, and if I did not comply would be riding in the back seat of his car. I had a copy and was good. MI law states possession of an unlicensed suppressor is a 5 year felony. So unless you want to go to jail, and wait to see a judge and prove it is legal, carry your paperwork.

.....or.......just maybe......make the officer obtain a warrant and dont let him rout around your stuff.....

inform him you are carrying, as required by law.....and if he wants to look around your car.....or in locked cases....a warrant is required.....

you couldve avoided the whole situation by actually using your rights

also, the burden of proof is on LEO to prove they are illegal....not on you to prove they are legal.....thats generally how laws work in this country.

 

[Swatman]

also, the burden of proof to is on LEO to prove they are illegal....not on you to prove they are legal.....thats generally how laws work in this country.

Yes!

 

[sgtkeebler]

This is from Texas Penal Code. It covers it being registered, which is what the tax stamp is, so I would recommend keeping a copy of the stamp readily available in case it’s needed. But again those of us who go through the paperwork and pay for the stamp are law abiding citizen and not likely to ever have an issue.

Sec. 46.05. PROHIBITED WEAPONS.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) any of the following items, unless the item is registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record maintained by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives or otherwise not subject to that registration requirement or unless the item is classified as a curio or relic by the United States Department of Justice:
(A) an explosive weapon;
(B) a machine gun; or
(C) a short-barrel firearm;
(2) armor-piercing ammunition;
(3) a chemical dispensing device;
(4) a zip gun;
(5) a tire deflation device;
(6) a firearm silencer, unless the firearm silencer is classified as a curio or relic by the United States Department of Justice or the actor otherwise possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells the firearm silencer in compliance with federal law; or
(7) an improvised explosive device.

 

[...]

This is from Texas Penal Code. It covers it being registered, which is what the tax stamp is, so I would recommend keeping a copy of the stamp readily available in case it’s needed. But again those of us who go through the paperwork and pay for the stamp are law abiding citizen and not likely to ever have an issue.

Sec. 46.05. PROHIBITED WEAPONS.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) any of the following items, unless the item is registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record maintained by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives or otherwise not subject to that registration requirement or unless the item is classified as a curio or relic by the United States Department of Justice:
(A) an explosive weapon;
(B) a machine gun; or
(C) a short-barrel firearm;
(2) armor-piercing ammunition;
(3) a chemical dispensing device;
(4) a zip gun;
(5) a tire deflation device;
(6) a firearm silencer, unless the firearm silencer is classified as a curio or relic by the United States Department of Justice or the actor otherwise possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells the firearm silencer in compliance with federal law; or
(7) an improvised explosive device.

Possession of stolen property is also a crime...should one also carry receipts of all their personal property to prove its legally owned?

Again...burden of proof is on leo to prove they are illegal.

You know...that whole presumption of innocence thing...

 

[B y r o n]

Possession of stolen property is also a crime...should one also carry receipts of all their personal property to prove its legally owned?

Again...burden of proof is on leo to prove they are illegal.

You know...that whole presumption of innocence thing...

"stolen property" is normally property that someone has reported stolen and is listed in one of the property systems as stolen. Hence, if your property is not stolen there is no need to have receipts showing it is yours as it will not be in any of these systems.

If you choose to leave the possibility of something possibly being illegal, law enforcement in general will error on the side of preventing the destruction of evidence which will usually involve taking it into custody where it can't be destroyed. I don't know if you've ever seen or witnessed a police property storage facility but lets say that if you do prevail and your property is returned there is no guarantee it will be in the same condition it was when taken. As long as you don't mind the scratches and/or dents that it may have received while in police custody then by all means don't provide any documentation that it is legally and lawfully yours.

 

[longtines]

LOL! I've been out for a few days and didn't realize all the posting. One time in college I got busted fishing and had left my license at home. We weren't doing anything wrong otherwise. I told the warden it was at home and he told me to go get it, and had my fishing buddy stay with him until I returned. The pucker factor was high, especially for my friend when I left to go get it. It was about 10 miles from my house. That left an impression on me.

 

[HousePlant]

Suppressor paperwork = vaccine passport. The health of my hearing should not require paperwork.

 

[longtines]

not much precedent to really fall back on with this, so its going to depend on how the LEO is feeling that day, and their knowledge of the law.

This. I wasn't thinking about my range so much as I was thinking about being stopped in a traffic stop, or check point. The side of the road or at the range is not the place to make a case for legal technicalities, IMO.

I CCW routinely, 99% on my person as I believe a gun should be in the safe or under control on your person. A few years ago, I had to stop by the local courthouse to do something before I flew out of town the next day. I took my gun off and put it in my pack and left it in the car. The next day when I went through airport security ... a polite TSA agent working the xray machine looked at me and said, "is that a .40 or a .45?" I had forgotten to put it in the safe when I got home the night before. It took three trips to court, 6 months, $3,500, and a Saturday morning in "violent felon" school to get it dismissed and get my pistol back. Shit happens. Funniest thing about it was they kept my pistol at the airport, so when I got it dismissed I had to go to the airport to pick it up.

 

[Huskydriver]

"stolen property" is normally property that someone has reported stolen and is listed in one of the property systems as stolen. Hence, if your property is not stolen there is no need to have receipts showing it is yours as it will not be in any of these systems.

If you choose to leave the possibility of something possibly being illegal, law enforcement in general will error on the side of preventing the destruction of evidence which will usually involve taking it into custody where it can't be destroyed. I don't know if you've ever seen or witnessed a police property storage facility but lets say that if you do prevail and your property is returned there is no guarantee it will be in the same condition it was when taken. As long as you don't mind the scratches and/or dents that it may have received while in police custody then by all means don't provide any documentation that it is legally and lawfully yours.

Oh boy I bet you are bff's on here with @wade2big @TurboTrout and @deersniper

 

[E. Bryant]

While you may be correct about the ATF, being able to ask for it federally, you gorgot that some states have more confined rules. I was asked for it once by a LEO on a traffic stop. He saw a bunch of gun cases anf in MI you jave to inform if carrying. He asked what guns were in my car and asked if all complied with MI law ( look up MI pistol, a loophole that allowed long guns to be registered as pistols and carried under a CPL). He examined them to make sure they were registered when he saw suppressors and sbrs. I was asked for paperwork, and if I did not comply would be riding in the back seat of his car. I had a copy and was good. MI law states possession of an unlicensed suppressor is a 5 year felony. So unless you want to go to jail, and wait to see a judge and prove it is legal, carry your paperwork.

The cop was out of line to threaten you with arrest, IMO. Here is the relevant MI law:

MCL - Section 750.224b - Michigan Legislature

www.legislature.mi.gov

(5) A person who possesses a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle that is greater than 26 inches in length under this section shall possess a copy of the federal registration of that short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle while transporting or using that short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle and shall present that federal registration to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer.
(6) A person who violates subsection (5) is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $100.00. A short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle carried in violation of subsection (5) is subject to immediate seizure by a peace officer. If a peace officer seizes a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle under this subsection, the person has 45 days in which to display the federal registration to an authorized employee of the law enforcement entity that employs the peace officer. If the person displays the federal registration to an authorized employee of the law enforcement entity that employs the peace officer within the 45-day period, the authorized employee of that law enforcement entity shall return the short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle to the person unless the person is prohibited by law from possessing a firearm. If the person does not display the federal registration within the 45-day period, the short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle is subject to seizure and forfeiture in the same manner that property is subject to seizure and forfeiture under sections 4701 to 4709 of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.4701 to 600.4709.

MI does require papers to be shown upon request, but a $100 fine and temporary seizure of the property is the maximum penalty. Whatever else happened leading up to this part of the conversation with the officer may be a different story, of course (in particular, I bet that attempting to offer a roadside education to most officers on the concept of a "MI pistol" would not have set the stage for a calm and rational discussion on the nature of civil infractions for missing NFA papers). I do know that if I'm talking about my NFA stuff with cop, something else probably led up to that point, and in all likelihood it has to do with the speed at which I was traveling in my motor vehicle.

I don't ever recall any of those conversations turning into a request to see any firearms; in fact, I'm usually requested to do exactly the opposite. An SBR alongside the front seat (as opposed to a CCW pistol under my shirt or a cases long gun in the back) would likely change the dynamic of that conversation in a hurry. In areas with poaching problems (uh, that'd be most of MI), rifle-caliber anything is going to attract special attention - especially if a suppressor and lights/lasers or anything else suggesting low-light operations are involved. Any short of a Ma Deuce in the back is unlikely to attract attention; something that looks capable of killing deer from the driver's seat will turn a sheriff's deputy into a game warden in about oh-point-two seconds.

I've got a copy of Form 1/4s stashed in the lids of Pelican cases or pockets of soft bags. If they get damaged, I print another copy. If I had to pull down copies from the cloud via my phone, I could do that if it meant avoiding a nine-hour drive the following week to get back my stuff. If I were toting around a $45k machine gun that I really didn't want locked up in an rural department's "evidence locker" (read: janitors closet) over the weekend, I'd probably have a couple moreredundant layers of coverage, or just tattoo the Form 4 on my arm like the idiots with their vaccination cards.

 

[TurboTrout]

Oh boy I bet you are bff's on here with @wade2big @TurboTrout and @deersniper

Meh, yeah, I’d say I agree with what he said. Not sure how anyone could disagree

 

[The38Super]

For cans, I can pull the pdf's up on my phone, if nicely asked by a party who has the authority. I keep a paper copy of my approved Form 1 in the grip of my SBR. Those less educated on the subject get nervous when they see a stock.

 

[TurboTrout]

For cans, I can pull the pdf's up on my phone, if nicely asked by a party who has the authority. I keep a paper copy of my approved Form 1 in the grip of my SBR. Those less educated on the subject get nervous when they see a stock.

How often have you been asked to produce paperwork?

I’ve only had it happen once, well kinda, brought a buddy to pickup a revolver I got, place also has a indoor range and he just got a new suppressor, figured we’d shoot a little while we were there, about 3/4 through some kid sweeping brass asked to see his paperwork, buddy is younger and was about to dig it out of his range bag, I told him to leave it be, asked the kid if he could show me the companies tax returns to make sure they arnt violating any laws ether, he went to get his manager and didn’t come back, guess the manager figured best not to piss off good customers

The people who ask to see paperwork like that, what a miserable life they must lead.