How far can you hold 1 MOA accuracy? - Reality check

[loudandproud]

Just got my first AR500 plates. Started out and bought 3 8" little gongs and hung them out at 800, 900 and 1000 yards. My personal goal has been able to make 1 MOA hits out to 1000 yards. I don't know why that's my goal at this point, It just seemed like a pretty good one. My rifle is a savage 10 FCP, B&C medalist, Rifle basix trigger, 22" Criterion barrel, bushnell xrs scope, 175 smk's over varget.

20 shots later I found myself driving back out and moving them all back in to 600, 700, and 800 yards. I just couldn't do it with my 308. I was shooting off a bipod and could only place 7 hits out of 20 shots at 800, 900 and 1000 yards. Pissin in the wind.

I got kind of down on myself because the last couple range sessions I have walked away feeling really good when I was shooting the range steel (12"x12" square blocks). Today was a humbling "well shit" kind of day.

600 and 700 yards are as far as I can "reliably" (8-9/10 hits) shoot those 8" targets.

Are my expectations too high right now? I've been shooting "long range" for around 8 months now every other weekend (not that long, I know). I feel like I am kind of at a plateau with my shooting.

I need to keep practicing, but do you all feel I should readjust my goals? Any tips or exercises you more experienced shooters recommend for this distance?

 

[pinklbd]

It depends. Were u shooting with a berm? When a buddy and I shoot we find hitting a 2 moa target out to 1000 challenging with no berm and a decent wind.

 

[loudandproud]

There isnt a berm... we are shooting up a mountain side, about a 6 degree incline. Wind wasnt terrible... 4-6mph. Place is mifflintown sportsman club.

I think im not gonna get much better unless I stop shooting the same shit. Need to get a little more structured with my practice rather than just going out and poppin steel all over the range.

 

[Erud]

On my best days I can keep 20 shots under 2 MOA at 1000 yards with a .308, sling, and iron sights.

 

[loudandproud]

On my best days I can keep 20 shots under 2 MOA at 1000 yards with a .308, sling, and iron sights.

Well im definately not there yet.

I can reliably hit the silhouette at that distance (8 to 9 for 10) but im gonna need a bipod and an optic to do it.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Well I know one thing. You won't get any better if you make your goals easier to achieve, you will just be fooling yourself. Find out why you weren't hitting them ( ammo not consistent, bullet not stable, misreading the wind, fundamentals off) and learn from each session and shot. To spot hits past 1 moa put some cardboard or something behind the steel so you can see what's going on, but keep the goal.

 

[andrewstc]

I think your personal goal is a good one - don't change the goal, just figure out what it takes to get there ... I'm no expert but I have about 1200 rnds thru my Remington 700 5R .308 with a SWFA scope in the last two years and I'd say if your fundamentals are solid, you have good DOPE on your rifle/optic/ammo combo and you have a consistent batch of ammo then you could easily be wrestling with the wind at 800-1000 yards. Definitely shoot with a spotter and with a berm/backstop to learn where your misses are going and how consistent they are ... then figure out how to fix them. Good luck, let us know what you find/learn!

 

[steve123]

Yep, you are expecting too much!

The problem with many of us is our custom precision rifles are capable of less than MOA, even at 1000Y, but wind changes the notion that we can keep our shots accurately placed in the middle of a target or steel at those distances.

It's not easy using wind flags and shooting wind cheating cartridges to hit a 8" steel in fluctuating winds at those distances.

Did you realize a .5BC bullet going 2650 fps - (approximating 308 Win) drifts 8" at 1000Y with a full value 1 mph change in wind speed??? The cheater cartridges being about half that.

Don't be discouraged, I've won long range championships using some awesome cartridges and equipment capable of less than .5 MOA and I'd be plenty happy keeping half of my shots on a 8" steel in 4-6 mph winds at 800, 900 and 1000Y.

 

[gstaylorg]

The great majority of the top F-Class (Target Rifle) shooters in the world are not ranked as "High Master" in long range (LR) shooting, which requires 98.00% or above. In addition, "cleans" at 1000 yd are very rare in F-TR, which requires a competitor use either .223 or .308. The 10-ring on the F-TR LR target is 10.00", just slightly under 1.0 MOA. That means most of the top shooters are dropping 13 points or more per 3x20 shot competition (60 shots total) on average. Because the outer edge of the bullet hole need only touch the scoring ring, that indicates that 13 shots or more are outside of a 1 MOA circle at 1000 yd. My point is that if the very best shooters in F-TR using the same caliber as you, combined with much longer barrels and much higher BC bullets can't do it, your expectations with your setup are probably much too ambitious.

Sounds to me from the results you described above that you're shooting pretty damn well with that setup. If you feel like "misses" on your 8" steel targets are wasting your time and effort, I would strongly suggest going with a much larger steel target. You can easily mark an 8" circle on it (or any other size you like) to gauge your performance. More importantly, you will also be able to glean some useful information out of shots that go outside the circle, whereas with the 8" steel targets, those shots are simply "misses" and don't tell you much. I think you're doing pretty well - keep at it and don't be discouraged.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

My goal is to have bullet path intersect line of sight. In competition with match conditioned Service Rifle in sling supported prone position I can hold better than an MOA at 100 yards. At 600 yards I can hold a little worse than 2 MOA, and at 1000 yards a little better than 3MOA.

 

[TacticalBoltKnob]

I would say an 8" target is pushing it at 1000 yards. I would want a 18-24" target with perhaps an MOA center circle, to at least see where my shots are hitting. With an 8" target, when you miss the plate completely, you have no idea by how much, etc… It's not giving you much information.

 

[loudandproud]

I would say an 8" target is pushing it at 1000 yards. I would want a 18-24" target with perhaps an MOA center circle, to at least see where my shots are hitting. With an 8" target, when you miss the plate completely, you have no idea by how much, etc… It's not giving you much information.

This is the main issue... missing is one thing, but not knowing which way you need to correct is frustrating.

Ill get a 20 incher and use it at 1000...

Maybe get a 12" or 16" for 800 yards.

Ill stick to the 8" for 600 yards.

 

[idahoorion]

L and P,

We are brothers in this I started a little over a year ago to be capable as a long
Range hunter, knowing I was going to have to upgrade equipment reloading technique and shooting skill, since first time hits are the rule, (not that they aren't for a sniper. Critters dont shoot back). I. Bought 10 inch plates. As that is About the size of the vital area. I have your same issues I recently got shooter for Apple and using real pressure, angle and other parameters have helped but I have lots to do to get to a grand. I just got last week a 18x24 plate and will start this week with that. My buddies says no one gets there with out putting in the effort.

Idahorion

 

[loudandproud]

L and P,

We are brothers in this I started a little over a year ago to be capable as a long
Range hunter, knowing I was going to have to upgrade equipment reloading technique and shooting skill, since first time hits are the rule, (not that they aren't for a sniper. Critters dont shoot back). I. Bought 10 inch plates. As that is About the size of the vital area. I have your same issues I recently got shooter for Apple and using real pressure, angle and other parameters have helped but I have lots to do to get to a grand. I just got last week a 18x24 plate and will start this week with that. My buddies says no one gets there with out putting in the effort.

Idahorion

10-4. I need to put in a couple more thousand rounds....

 

[MontanaMarine]

This is the main issue... missing is one thing, but not knowing which way you need to correct is frustrating.

Ill get a 20 incher and use it at 1000...

Maybe get a 12" or 16" for 800 yards.

Ill stick to the 8" for 600 yards.

Now your cooking with gas.

With fresh white spraypaint you can usually see your splashes on the steel, and get some useful immediate feedback.

I use a 15x25" steel torso, with a 5x5" center square drawn on it. Works pretty good at 1000. 20x20" square sounds like a good size too.

 

[walt willis]

While serving in Germany I shot a 4 inch group out to 800 meters using a NM grade M-14 with iron sights.

 

[mark5pt56]

You can take an IPSC cardboard, place it behind or even duct tape to the back of your steel. That way it will show where your missed shots went. Example is r-l wind and you may be holding to much of not enough and the card board will be a record. Bigger steel with a smaller section painted, etc in the center does the same thing but with instant feedback with the witnessed hit(audible/visual) My vote is with the bigger steel. While I didn't know the exact data, the two books from Litz really show the math and science behind the various calibers and hit percentages, etc. Get both as they are a great source of information-to keep things in perspective with the .308 especially. There's more than marksmanship involved at 1k, you wil find out variations in muzzle velocity affect things along with other factors.

 

[40xs]

The question; "how far can you hold 1 moa accuracy"? is sooo subjective to a lot of variables. Sling, or bi-pod and rear bag? No wind, or varible and gusty. 168gr. or 185 hybrid? All of it will depend on??????whatever!! I've held 1 moa at 600 for 19 rounds, threw one in the 9 ring, of course, no wind. We all know of f/tr shooters that have held 1 moa at 1000 in little or no wind shooting off bi-pods and rear bags. Can't do it with sling and elbows. So, holding 1 moa and reading wind correctly are two totally different animals. As a matter of fact, a lot of F class shooters have the ability to hold 1 moa with their kit and perfectly made bullets as long as there is no wind. But show me a long length of time on any given day when there was "no wind"!!

 

[walt willis]

The question; "how far can you hold 1 moa accuracy"? is sooo subjective to a lot of variables. Sling, or bi-pod and rear bag? No wind, or varible and gusty. 168gr. or 185 hybrid? All of it will depend on??????whatever!! I've held 1 moa at 600 for 19 rounds, threw one in the 9 ring, of course, no wind. We all know of f/tr shooters that have held 1 moa at 1000 in little or no wind shooting off bi-pods and rear bags. Can't do it with sling and elbows. So, holding 1 moa and reading wind correctly are two totally different animals. As a matter of fact, a lot of F class shooters have the ability to hold 1 moa with their kit and perfectly made bullets as long as there is no wind. But show me a long length of time on any given day when there was "no wind"!!

You can adjust if the wind is steady with about two or three sighted shots.
Long range is more like lobbing hand grenades than shooting.

 

[Hootiewho]

OP, you can try to find a piece of rubber mat, like a barn stall mat from tractor supply or conveyor belt. You can even get road gators aka blown out 18 wheeler tires, cut the side walls out. Then make a 20x20 (or however big you desire) frame from wood or metal and stretch the mat out on it or the strips of tire tread. Really with the mat or conveyor belt you do not have to get crazy with a frame as it is pretty sturdy as it. What you want to do is make a backer out of this material and hang a foot or closer behind your steel. Paint the rubber a neon color with a good quality, thick coating spray paint, then paint it a more neutral color. If my steel is white, I like to go light grey on the rubber or something similar. I suppose you could paint black back over the neon. Regardless, a hit on the rubber looks very much like a hit on the steel plate. It will be very obvious at distance esp with a neon color base paint. The rubber will outlast your barrel and it can be hitagain with the rattle can to freshen up.