How handy is a chronograph?

[Photobug]

I am just trying to get back up to do some precision shooting with my modded CZ 452. Would having a chronographer help me dial in my ammo selection or can the stats be found online, or can I rely on DOPE and software to estimate the numbers for different ammo?

I was trying out Ely and Lapua yesterday and at 100 yards and needed 2 more mils of elevation to hit on target. How many of you have a chrony to help evaluate your factory ammo for precision shooting? I don't reload or plan on doing so anytime soon.

 

[justin amateur]

A ballistic chronograph is a diagnostic tool,
for when you want to understand why you get the results you do.
Unecessary for choosing the correct rimfire ammunition.
Your results on paper do that job.
When 50 shots at 50 yards all hit less than 0.15 inch from point of aim, you have good ammunition.
When 50 shots at 50 yards shows 1 inch of spread, that ain't great 22lr.

 

[MajorD]

Personally being an old school guy shooting precision matches since the late 1970’s long before consumer available ballistic apps chronographs etc were a thing, I think we dive into technology far too much.
take the gun and ammo out. Shoot it. Record your dope data based on actual shooting And environments condition. That is your baseline. No calculator app or other tech is ever going to replace actual shooting to see where the bullets actually go

 

[Photobug]

A ballistic chronograph is a diagnostic tool,
for when you want to understand why you get the results you do.
Unecessary for choosing the correct rimfire ammunition.
Your results on paper do that job.
When 50 shots at 50 yards all hit less than 0.15 inch from point of aim, you have good ammunition.
When 50 shots at 50 yards shows 1 inch of spread, that ain't great 22lr.

Thanks as I thought. Besides .22lr I have also invested in air guns to plink while camping. I recently bought a Dan Wesson 357 replica. First one was a lemon the second one I paid to have it chrony tested and the results were all over the place, (avg fps with a standard deviation of 57) and they still shipped it to me. I was tempted to buy a chrony for the airguns. I was wondering if it would come in handy for my 22 precision shooting apparently not.

Speaking of 50 yards. So far my shooting has been right on to 50 yards, but at 100 yards I lose all consistency.

 

[eklarsen]

If you reload a chrono of some kind is imperitive.

 

[Photobug]

If you reload a chrono of some kind is imperitive.

Ya i figured if I reload, i'd need one, but i mostly shoot .22 and some 9mm. Crunching the numbers of raw supplies vs 30cent rounds of 9mm can't rationalize the effort.

 

[acudaowner]

I think mine is extreamly handy . being more accurate than my guesses and having actual numbers to plug into a ballistic calculator is pretty handy for me the best thing is I know at any given moment I can pull it out set it up and have the data I am looking for anytime , anywhere while at the range and I don't need to call a cold ( stopping others from shooting ) just to set it up .

 

[grauhanen]

A chronograph will show the data associated with them, such as individual round MV and the ES and SD of a string of shots. Such information can easily distinguish between certain qualities of various makes or lots of ammo.

What a chronograph can do is offer an explanation for why some of the things that happen on target happened.

But it's important to note that chrony data doesn't always offer an explanation of what occured. Sometimes MV and POI don't match -- for example a round with a higher MV may strike lower than predicted or vice versa. MV doesn't always explain why some rounds strike to the left or right of the expected POI without the effect of wind.

Although the causes of this are another matter, they may occur more frequently in some ammos or lots than in others. Knowing how frequently this happens from one lot to another can be relevant to ammo selection.

 

[Manning5R]

I think it is extremely useful as well.

If nothing else, knowing the velocity will add a bunch of confidence to your ammo selection and inputs into ballistic solvers.

Without a chrono, you can make observations, but those observations of POA/POI at distance might not be directly velocity related, and if those observations are based on small sample sizes, it will most likely have a fair bit of error. (As mentioned previously....)

A magnetospeed sporter is easy to use and works just fine on rimfire.

 

[Boxerglocker]

A ballistic chronograph is a diagnostic tool,
for when you want to understand why you get the results you do.
Unecessary for choosing the correct rimfire ammunition.
Your results on paper do that job.
When 50 shots at 50 yards all hit less than 0.15 inch from point of aim, you have good ammunition.
When 50 shots at 50 yards shows 1 inch of spread, that ain't great 22lr.

This is true if you only intend to shoot at 50 yards. Beyond 50 yards velocity ES and SD are the limiting factor in performance.

 

[Rob01]

Chronos are a very useful tool. I would highly recommend getting one. You can not only get your velocity but learn if the ES/SD of the round will lend itself to staying accurate at longer ranges. Shooting the rifle is great and should be done to check accuracy at your home range but when you go places to shoot you don't always get the chance to shoot to longer ranges so having god chrono data helps you put the right data into your ballistic program and make hits. Not about old school versus new but using newer techniques to make hits.

 

[Longshot231]

I’m not trying to dump on the OP but some of the people that don’t think they need a chronograph are some of the ones asking if they can check the velocity of their rounds with mine when at the range.

I remember the old days when I had to rely on the manufacture specs or what the reloading manual said.

Then I’d sit down for a few hours with a calculator and ballistic table to come up with my own holdover for a starting point.

Then I’d go to the range sending lots of ammo down range to verify or tweak my holdover figures.

I don’t want to depend on technology but it’s sure darn nice to have and saves LOTS of ammunition.

My advice to OP is get a LabRadar and learn how to use it. You will save a lot of time, money and ammunition in the long run.

 

[Kadams1563]

Step 1 buy chrono
Step 2 shoot rifle over chrono
Step 3 buy kestrel
Step 4 input data into kestrel
Step 5 use data to hit whatever you want

Lol

Chrono is one of the dentist items IMO. Especially if your a reloader or you just want to get data from electronic device.

 

[justin amateur]

Even at long range, results on target indicate ammo quality.

A 4 inch 50 shot group at 200 yards with SV 22lr and you know you had a velocity spread of about 40 fps.

A 3 inch group at 200 shows an ES of 30 fps.

A 1 inch vertical 5 shot group says those 5 shots had an ES of 10 fps.

No chronograph needed, just a ballistic calculator.

I like using my chrony. Every trip it's out front, collecting data.
Sometimes it's to verify results on target, sometimes it's to check my 223 hand loads.
Inexpensive Pal optical sensor on a tripod.

 

[Near miss]

Between chrono and good rangefinder, I would choose the rangefinder. You can muster pretty good ballistic table using your dope. It just needs correct distances, thus the importance of rangefinder. Even a cheap one ($150-200) will do quite well. At least when you use lapua that has good doppler data available.
But most likely you will need to tune MV and bc.

If you have max 50yds mostly available, chrono might be a handy asset. Although from my testing, on average the ammo with better 50yd groups also had better MV SD meaning they correlated, it was around 0.64.

In short, if you buy 10 different lots, probably 1 will shoot very well, 2 ok and the rest average or worse. But just testing lots will help you gain intel on how your gun / barrel functions. Do comparison in spreadsheet to really use data to your advantage.

I could probably do load develoment without chrono. In the end I check pressure from casing, accuracy from paper and SD mainly from distance. In reloading you cannot improve your SD by metering it, only by producing more consistent rounds. That mostly comes from good practices and knowledge, chrono helps you test your SD without shooting at long distances though. I already do all I can to keep SD low, it is good enough to keep me on target, wind is much bigger problem.

I use LMBR chrono, most useful it has been for temperatute / MV table data gathering.

 

[Working Man Tactical]

If you’re planning on competing in matches, a chronograph is very useful. Warm weather vs cold weather, it’ll affect your velocities. Knowing them is invaluable and when used with strelok or comparable ballistic app, you’re going to be more successful knowing this info. If you’re not competing and shooting for fun then it’s not as important.

 

[Working Man Tactical]

I shot this group yesterday at 200 yards. Using strelok with known chronographed speed I was able to put hits on paper. Not knowing the velocity is a guessing game.

 

[MarkCZ]

I have a chronograph, and have not used it in years. I used it for USPSA to get my speed for the power factor ( bullet weight X speed). For rifles, i do it old school. I shoot and get my dope from real come ups. I shoot long range 22lr now. I put the know data in Sterlok and true my speed with 200yds data, then true the BC with 300 yds data. My data is very close out to 500yds. I will adjust current weather in Sterlok, thru out the day. A chronograph is a useful tool, but it can be done without one.

 

[lash]

Yes, it can be done without a Chronograph, but not everybody has tons of time and tons of ammo and unlimited access to the long ranges necessary to true your dope without one. That’s where they shine as a tool in the toolbox.

No tools we use are really necessary when you get down to it. Why do you ‘need’ a scope for long range, when there were guys hitting 1000 yards in the late 1800s with just iron sights?

The better question is, “Would I, with my situation and current time and resources available, find this tool to be a major timesaver and components saver for my type of shooting.”

I can regale (bore) you all with numerous stories of guys wasting boxes of ammo without hitting what they want consistently and then, once I get their rounds chronoed, suddenly finding life to be much easier. I see it all the time and provide the complimentary chrono session for them. In ten rounds or less, you now have a solid model to then verify and tweak for even better results.

It’s really that simple.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Personally being an old school guy shooting precision matches since the late 1970’s long before consumer available ballistic apps chronographs etc were a thing, I think we dive into technology far too much.
take the gun and ammo out. Shoot it. Record your dope data based on actual shooting And environments condition. That is your baseline. No calculator app or other tech is ever going to replace actual shooting to see where the bullets actually go

Uh No.

A chrono is one of the most valuable tools and damn near a requirement for any actual shooting if you want to hit shit without wasting a ton of time and ammo.

Not only will it tell you the most important variable that you need for your ballistic App, but it will also let you know what your ammo is doing via ES/SD. This is a critical piece of determine what direction to go with your ammo/reloading.

Using AB with custom curves, you will be dead on with most modern projectiles to the effective range. Doing a waterline test is useless if you don't know what your ammo is doing velocity wise. You may think its off, when the spread is just too big to determine and you are making decisions off bad data.

I honestly cannot believe people still think like this, then I look at the elections and realize over half the population is retarded. Puts things into perspective.

Anyone who says you don't need a chrono in the modern day, needs to be ignored and sent back to Hardees/Carls JR to rot with the rest of the gerrys.

 

[Rob01]

Hey! Hardee’s has some good burgers! Lol

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

They have the best burgers but they are also where all the old farmers go to sprout roots each morning.

 

[MarkCZ]

So you chronograph your ammo, get speed, ES and SD. Input data into ballistic app. Then you are good to go. You don't fire any rounds to confirm you data? I hope you do. Do you have to true your data? If so, that is what I am doing.

Do you know the water line test is telling you, the speed?

I am sorry, I can do it the old way. By what I am seeing here, no one can do it. I can do it. with less than a box of ammo.

I am trying to help guys out, without spending a ton of money. Can you get by with a $150 screen type chronograph that you have to walk out to check the info, or do you need a Labradar $700+.

It is sad that this Fourm is getting where, you can't have a different idea or way to do anything. The is the way the world is going these days. It does sounds like the winning side of the election, just pound them down, if you don't agree.

This may start a fire storm, but it will confirm what I said.

 

[SporterII]

Air gun is kinda like reloading. You have in many cases control of your “load”, pellet selection and stuff I don’t know about Get the chrono.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

So you chronograph your ammo, get speed, ES and SD. Input data into ballistic app. Then you are good to go. You don't fire any rounds to confirm you data? I hope you do. Do you have to true your data? If so, that is what I am doing.

Do you know the water line test is telling you, the speed?

I am sorry, I can do it the old way. By what I am seeing here, no one can do it. I can do it. with less than a box of ammo.

I am trying to help guys out, without spending a ton of money. Can you get by with a $150 screen type chronograph that you have to walk out to check the info, or do you need a Labradar $700+.

It is sad that this Fourm is getting where, you can't have a different idea or way to do anything. The is the way the world is going these days. It does sounds like the winning side of the election, just pound them down, if you don't agree.

This may start a fire storm, but it will confirm what I said.

When using AB with CC and good ammo, you are doing just that, confirm. Every bullet I have tried is good past 1400 using that.

Confirming your inputs are correct, your gun is put together correct, everything is torqued.

You need to understand this from a WEZ perspective. Waterline test is questionable unless you have really good ammo, IE low ES.

You know how much ammo I need to use to to confirm new ammo? 2 shots to zero, a shot at 800 and a shot at 1K to make sure the gun is setup correctly.

Stop using garbage ballistic comps and you won't have issues.

If you can afford to shoot, you can afford a chrono. A MS is $400 and every bit as reliable as you need.

You are arguing for the equivalent of buying a horse and buggy to do a 30 mile commute to work. Its obsolete tech, slower, more expensive and much more work than using modern tech.

Why would you purposly make life harder? Do you also lug around a sundial becuase a watch is too new school?

 

[Photobug]

Air gun is kinda like reloading. You have in many cases control of your “load”, pellet selection and stuff I don’t know about Get the chrono.

My air guns are not for precision at least not yet they are for plinking beer cans while camping. A chrony would be a complete waste of money for the type of airgunning I do. The only reason I considered it is to test my latest which I paid to have tested before shipping. In 10 shots it had a high of 360 low of 160 and a SD of 57. I am shocked the retailer and the manufacturer would ship something of such poor quality.

My chrony for pellet guns is an empty beer can on a string and based on how much the can flys when hits gives me an idea of the fps, and as long as I can hit a can from 30 feet away I am happy. I may get into airgunning more seriously but consider the investment is likely to be $3000 plus, that is a lot of 22LR ammo.

 

[Photobug]

Personally being an old school guy shooting precision matches since the late 1970’s long before consumer available ballistic apps chronographs etc were a thing, I think we dive into technology far too much.
take the gun and ammo out. Shoot it. Record your dope data based on actual shooting And environments condition. That is your baseline. No calculator app or other tech is ever going to replace actual shooting to see where the bullets actually go

A little over a year ago, when getting back into shooting and looking at precision shooting I asked if anyone does it old school and was told you need "all of the above" to be competitive. I have a wind gauge and Geobalistic app on my phone and am using that to learn. As someone who is good with math and likes a challenge, it would be nice to see a separate division or a competition that solely relies on old school skills. I can only guess the tools to be used but limit competitors to a spotter with a scope, dope card and a windsock on the range, no electronics.

 

[Rob01]

A little over a year ago, when getting back into shooting and looking at precision shooting I asked if anyone does it old school and was told you need "all of the above" to be competitive. I have a wind gauge and Geobalistic app on my phone and am using that to learn. As someone who is good with math and likes a challenge, it would be nice to see a separate division or a competition that solely relies on old school skills. I can only guess the tools to be used but limit competitors to a spotter with a scope, dope card and a windsock on the range, no electronics.

You are totally missing the point to your own question. If you want to make your life hard then go for it. Spend a bunch of time and money on ammo you don’t need to and then time figuring what you think the velocity is when you could have gotten it in 10 shots and about 2 minutes. A chrono is not some new fangled tool that is super expensive. You can get them for under $200 and the data is well worth it if you want to shoot long range especially with a Rimfire. There are a bunch of things, wind being the most, that can mess with the old school data tracking with Rimfire reaching out to longer ranges. Not just right and left effects but up and down so the great shooting to get data and reverse engineering to get a velocity way is not a good way to do it. You can get bad numbers. Also you are depending on that your scope is tracking 100%. You will need to do a full tracking test also to try and do that method. Bottom line is get a chrono. It will help you out and give you correct numbers to be able to use in a program when shooting at different locations or conditions.

Oh and that old school type of match is not really as old school as you think as a lot of people shoot matches like that now, myself included, but I got my velocity to run my data chart from a chrono.

 

[lash]

So you chronograph your ammo, get speed, ES and SD. Input data into ballistic app. Then you are good to go. You don't fire any rounds to confirm you data? I hope you do. Do you have to true your data? If so, that is what I am doing.

Do you know the water line test is telling you, the speed?

I am sorry, I can do it the old way. By what I am seeing here, no one can do it. I can do it. with less than a box of ammo.

I am trying to help guys out, without spending a ton of money. Can you get by with a $150 screen type chronograph that you have to walk out to check the info, or do you need a Labradar $700+.

It is sad that this Fourm is getting where, you can't have a different idea or way to do anything. The is the way the world is going these days. It does sounds like the winning side of the election, just pound them down, if you don't agree.

This may start a fire storm, but it will confirm what I said.

Here’s your confirmation. You happy now?

Maybe you didn’t read all the responses to see that there have been a number of differing responses and opinions. Just like yours. Don’t get all upset because you don’t agree with some of them.

To quote your sentiment, Is this the way the world/the Hide is going today? If people express opinions and maybe more of them have different opinions than yours, then you get all butt hurt and cry because you’re a victim? Really?! Cause that’s what it sounds like.

Yes, if you read the responses, most people are using chronographs. Which one you use, a $100 screen type, a $200 magnetospeed sporter, a $500 Labrador, or a multi thousand $$ professional radar unit, isn’t important.

It’s a tool to get you shooting better faster. Nothing more. It’s only a crutch in your mind.

Oh and perhaps you missed the part wherein I pointed out that the majority of shooters don’t have hundreds and thousands of yards to work with while developing loads. Many only have 100 yards to do so and when they do get access to longer ranges, they usually don’t get to casually do load development at that time.

Anyway, back to dreaming of simpler times, when the men were men and the women were too.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

A little over a year ago, when getting back into shooting and looking at precision shooting I asked if anyone does it old school and was told you need "all of the above" to be competitive. I have a wind gauge and Geobalistic app on my phone and am using that to learn. As someone who is good with math and likes a challenge, it would be nice to see a separate division or a competition that solely relies on old school skills. I can only guess the tools to be used but limit competitors to a spotter with a scope, dope card and a windsock on the range, no electronics.

There is no one stopping you from going old school. You can shoot a match with ancient equipment and techniques if that is fun for you.

I encourage you to go do it. Let us know how many matches you make it through before you realize how dumb of an idea it is and come here asking for advice how to use a chrono or Kestral.

 

[SporterII]

My air guns are not for precision at least not yet they are for plinking beer cans while camping. A chrony would be a complete waste of money for the type of airgunning I do. The only reason I considered it is to test my latest which I paid to have tested before shipping. In 10 shots it had a high of 360 low of 160 and a SD of 57. I am shocked the retailer and the manufacturer would ship something of such poor quality.

My chrony for pellet guns is an empty beer can on a string and based on how much the can flys when hits gives me an idea of the fps, and as long as I can hit a can from 30 feet away I am happy. I may get into airgunning more seriously but consider the investment is likely to be $3000 plus, that is a lot of 22LR ammo.

 

[SporterII]

You just outlined the value of a chronograph. Weather you want one or not is your business. Mine is only constructive (hopefully) conversation.

 

[MarkCZ]

Post 26 and 27 are from the ordinal poster. He is just getting in the sport. He sees what You are and others are posting and and questing getting into this sport. READ HIS POST.

What are you doing the the new shooter, wanting to come into the sport? This line of talk runs them off. Is this what you want? You are doing a good job.

Before I could get my post finished this post came thru. good timing.

There is no one stopping you from going old school. You can shoot a match with ancient equipment and techniques if that is fun for you.

I encourage you to go do it. Let us know how many matches you make it through before you realize how dumb of an idea it is and come here asking for advice how to use a chrono or Kestral.

Great job, you just pounded down the guy that started the post. Great job

Photobug, you can start with what you have. You can add new equipment as you can. We have a lot of guys on here that can help with info. Some just pound guys down. You will find them real fast.

 

[Near miss]

Air gun is kinda like reloading. You have in many cases control of your “load”, pellet selection and stuff I don’t know about Get the chrono.

With above you probably mean air gun tuning, which is quite similar, you just change the gun instead of cartridge qualities.

 

[SporterII]

Yes. Knowing where the round will go, repeat, helps.

 

[Near miss]

You definitely do not need a chrono to start with. At some point you will come to realization that it would make creating dope tables much easier and more accurate. And it does. But you get far without one.

Do not care about the whinies who say you cannot live without one. In one thread they complain to someone that they do not shoot enough and then in another thread they say that shooting over 4 rounds is waste.

You know your budget better than us but I recommend to shoot a lot and learn by that. Too much numbers and jack becomes a dull boy.

I do not know about the others, but I like my shooting hobby because it involves shooting. Just do not go to long range to spray them all over.

 

[Photobug]

You are totally missing the point to your own question.

I think you missing the point of my comment. This concept is totally separate from my initial question. I am now convinced I should have a chrono and to settle that question, I just ordered a Bluetooth enabled chrono.

There should be a separate category or competition for old school shooters. You can own and play with at home with all the high tech electronics you want but on the day of the competition, all that is got to stay in your bag. Just like there are base and unlimited classes for NRL22, there could also be an old-school new school class or even a separate competition, series where no electronics are allowed.

I am sure there are some old school guys who have developed skills or knowledge that will allow them to compete in this competition in a way that someone who relies on their electronics completely and may or may not even understand what is happening under the hood. I am not saying this applies to anyone on this forum as most seem well educated and knowledgeable, but it is possible to be overly reliant on technology. I think an old school competition would be nice to see.

I shoot pistols more often than my precision rifle. I shoot my 9mm open sight, I could probably shoot better if I upgraded to a red dot, and maybe do even better if I were to shoot a carbine. Why not shoot a carbine with a red dot, and use every advantage I can to be competitive?

 

[Near miss]

There is no doubt people who would like to do old school but it just dries out, doing things really like the old way is very inefficient and likely noone is going back there, with so many shooters lacking skills in even how to collect and input the correct data in to the device...

For serious comps I estimate the weather and build my dope cards based on that. It kinda is just an extension of the electronic device, even though it is just paper.

Once you buy a kestrel and see the changes it provides to firing solutions caused by minor weather fluctuations during the day, you understand that it is nearly impossible to make very accurate shots at long ranges of 300m+ without all that data.

My eyes opened when my 300m dial changed around 1mil within one range day few years back. The next day it was over 1 mil change if I remember right.

 

[SanPatHogger]

I use the BallisticsARC app. Zero at 50. Then shoot at 100 and measure the drop with the reticle, Crank turret and shoot again, on at 100. Also shoot every 10 yards and record dope. After you find what the real dope is you go in the app and true it. Distance and MILs, then it gives you a different velocity to plug in. My truing velocity is 1,373 for CCI SV. The box says 1,070. This is out of a CZ455 16 inch barrel.
So you can measure the real velocity, but your'e going to end up changing it in the APP anyway, so what does it really matter?

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

You definitely do not need a chrono to start with. At some point you will come to realization that it would make creating dope tables much easier and more accurate. And it does. But you get far without one.

Do not care about the whinies who say you cannot live without one. In one thread they complain to someone that they do not shoot enough and then in another thread they say that shooting over 4 rounds is waste.

You know your budget better than us but I recommend to shoot a lot and learn by that. Too much numbers and jack becomes a dull boy.

I do not know about the others, but I like my shooting hobby because it involves shooting. Just do not go to long range to spray them all over.

You don't even understand what you are talking about and it shows.

Shooting just to waste ammo does not make you a better shooter. This is what load development is, Ammo wasted that does not improve your skills.

I am sorry you do not understand the difference between value added shooting and non value added shooting. Try using that muscle between your ears.

ANYONE who competes or does this at a semi serious level, is going to have a chronograph. People saying you don't need it are either set in their old ways or aren't competent enough/knowledgeable to be giving anyone advice.

You will still need to DSF past 150 yards with most rimfire ammo, but velocity and ES are even more critical with a rimfire shooting at extended ranges. Come shoot 300+ with us and you will quickly learn how little off an error in your data will cause a miss.

If you can't afford a $200 chrono, you can't afford to shoot. Its really that simple. Maybe a hobby like bird watching or oragami is more appropriate but I hear those paper prices are going up, so maybe not.

 

[Near miss]

I went to origami forums, wanting to start new hobby and some dipshit also there said that no use in folding the regular paper, he said that I need the special paper that holds shape and shit.
He said if I cannot afford that I need to go back to shooting.

To be proficient shooter, you (unfortunately?) must shoot. You cannot build concrete fundamentals without repetitions.

You can and should do dryfire but nothing compares to shooting and seeing the result.

 

[Rob01]

I think you missing the point of my comment. This concept is totally separate from my initial question. I am now convinced I should have a chrono and to settle that question, I just ordered a Bluetooth enabled chrono.

There should be a separate category or competition for old school shooters. You can own and play with at home with all the high tech electronics you want but on the day of the competition, all that is got to stay in your bag. Just like there are base and unlimited classes for NRL22, there could also be an old-school new school class or even a separate competition, series where no electronics are allowed.

I am sure there are some old school guys who have developed skills or knowledge that will allow them to compete in this competition in a way that someone who relies on their electronics completely and may or may not even understand what is happening under the hood. I am not saying this applies to anyone on this forum as most seem well educated and knowledgeable, but it is possible to be overly reliant on technology. I think an old school competition would be nice to see.

I shoot pistols more often than my precision rifle. I shoot my 9mm open sight, I could probably shoot better if I upgraded to a red dot, and maybe do even better if I were to shoot a carbine. Why not shoot a carbine with a red dot, and use every advantage I can to be competitive?

First, it’s good you got a chrono. Not sure what you got but it will be better than nothing.

Pistol shooting like USPSA classes are nothing like what you are trying to compare it to. More for speed for shooter than accuracy. That said as I said earlier, nothing is stopping you from shooting a match how you want. Go as “old school” as you want and bring an iron sighted sharps like Quigley if you want. Lol I print off my charts before every match and use projected weather and elevation for my location and always carry it to matches. Electronics die and if I use one at the match it’s usually just Hornady 4Dof on my phone to check my charts. Been using the charts at matches for 20 years. They work fine. Yes you can use a Kestrel as a lot do now and they work great too. Guess I am just “middle aged school”. Lol

As to MORE divisions, a waste of time for already over run matches with too many divisions. No need for an old school division to have 1 or two guys in at a match. Also no way to check if they are doing it all “old school” through the match. Sounds like a good idea but it’s not. And try and run a full competition like that and I doubt you will get many competitors. Just like instead of the Indy 500 you wanted to do “old school“ horse and buggy races. You will always get a couple guys but not enough.

 

[lash]

I use the BallisticsARC app. Zero at 50. Then shoot at 100 and measure the drop with the reticle, Crank turret and shoot again, on at 100. Also shoot every 10 yards and record dope. After you find what the real dope is you go in the app and true it. Distance and MILs, then it gives you a different velocity to plug in. My truing velocity is 1,373 for CCI SV. The box says 1,070. This is out of a CZ455 16 inch barrel.
So you can measure the real velocity, but your'e going to end up changing it in the APP anyway, so what does it really matter?

I just have to ask if you have correctly entered your rifle information, like height of scope over bore as an example? On a .22LR, that distance makes a big difference. Your CZ455 16” is NOT giving you 1,373 fps with CCI SV. And you have not trued your ballistic curve if that’s what you are using.

Believe me or not, I don’t care, but do yourself a favor and measure your muzzle velocity. Check all of your ballistic inputs twice. Each one has a much greater affect on the true ballistic curve and results than you think.

Also, be careful when you enter the environmental information for zero and then adjust for the environmental info the place and day you are shooting. Your hits at distance will improve.

 

[spamassassin]

A chronograph is kinda like a dick. When you need it you really need it and when you don't it's just more stuff to get in the way that you have to protect from any kind of possible damage.

 

[MajorD]

Uh No.

A chrono is one of the most valuable tools and damn near a requirement for any actual shooting if you want to hit shit without wasting a ton of time and ammo.

Not only will it tell you the most important variable that you need for your ballistic App, but it will also let you know what your ammo is doing via ES/SD. This is a critical piece of determine what direction to go with your ammo/reloading.

Using AB with custom curves, you will be dead on with most modern projectiles to the effective range. Doing a waterline test is useless if you don't know what your ammo is doing velocity wise. You may think its off, when the spread is just too big to determine and you are making decisions off bad data.

I honestly cannot believe people still think like this, then I look at the elections and realize over half the population is retarded. Puts things into perspective.

Anyone who says you don't need a chrono in the modern day, needs to be ignored and sent back to Hardees/Carls JR to rot with the rest of the gerrys.

Pretty harsh response. I was shooting long before all this tech stuff was available and was able to hold my own pretty well, including winning national level competition, so while some of these tools are indeed useful, some of us old timers can still get by ok.
can you effectively shoot without all the tech stuff? Absolutely and if you are tech savvy I will admit it has utility but is not the be all and end all

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Cool, you can be the fastest guy in a biplane in the Jet age.

 

[roostercogburn98]

A chronograph is kinda like a dick

Do I have to worry about making support payments for the next 18 years after I use it? The chronograph that is

 

[lash]

Do I have to worry about making support payments for the next 18 years after I use it? The chronograph that is

Yes. You’ll be supporting a hobby that starts out slow and then after you commit, the stops are off.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Yes. You’ll be supporting a hobby that starts out slow and then after you commit, the stops are off.

Dropped off rhat edge 15 years ago. Slowly been weaning myself back into reality. Well then I went and order a C35 this week, so appears I might have started slipping off the wagon again

 

[Photobug]

I use the BallisticsARC app. Zero at 50. Then shoot at 100 and measure the drop with the reticle, Crank turret and shoot again, on at 100. Also shoot every 10 yards and record dope. After you find what the real dope is you go in the app and true it. Distance and MILs, then it gives you a different velocity to plug in. My truing velocity is 1,373 for CCI SV. The box says 1,070. This is out of a CZ455 16 inch barrel.
So you can measure the real velocity, but your'e going to end up changing it in the APP anyway, so what does it really matter?

You and I are pretty much shooting the same setup. I have a CZ 452 with a good scope, and use the same app. I just took it out and tried some new ammo zeroed it at 25 which also gets me zeroed at 50 yards as well. I feel as though I can hit a dime at 50 yards but have yet to find an ammo to group at 100 yards. I don't think it is the ammo, but can't know for sure.