PRS Talk How important is MV in competition?

[Nostradumbass]

Hey boys,

Hope this is the right place to ask this question. I’m looking to get into the PRS game this year.

I’m shooting a 6.5X47 Lapua, with a load that’s not setting the world on fire with muzzle velocity. It’s transonic past 1300yds, just not super fast. I let the accuracy node dictate speed.

The other day on one of Lowlight’s podcasts, I heard Frank talking to PRS guys about having an edge over because of muzzle velocity. Got me thinking…. Is bullet speed really that important on the gaming side of long range shooting? It very well may be due to wind calls. Just wanted to get your thoughts or experiences.

Thanks very much for your time!

 

[HousePlant]

Lower the speed, the more risk you add in flight from wind and elevation adjustment to compensate.

If you're shooting accurately in varied conditions to 1300 yards... then don't worry about it. Your barrel life will thank you.

If you are losing the target at those longer distances more than others on windy days... maybe find a higher speed node.

There are no trophies for the highest MV. Just for hitting the target the most in the least amount of time.

 

[Hoyt7mm]

The short answer is no. The name of the game is being able to watch your trace or at least see your hits/misses in order to correct for following shots. The top guys are generally running between 2600 and 2900. For mid pack or newer shooters, a faster, high BC bullet might help them a little bit by allowing them a little less wind drift. But once you're able to see your shots and correct off of them, speed isn't super important

 

[_Windrider_]

Hey boys,

Hope this is the right place to ask this question. I’m looking to get into the PRS game this year.

I’m shooting a 6.5X47 Lapua, with a load that’s not setting the world on fire with muzzle velocity. It’s transonic past 1300yds, just not super fast. I let the accuracy node dictate speed.

The other day on one of Lowlight’s podcasts, I heard Frank talking to PRS guys about having an edge over because of muzzle velocity. Got me thinking…. Is bullet speed really that important on the gaming side of long range shooting? It very well may be due to wind calls. Just wanted to get your thoughts or experiences.

Thanks very much for your time!

I think it’s a balance between BC and speed.

For me if the wind is dodgy I would choose a heavier bullet that’s maybe a little slower but has a high BC. The 6mm crowd may have a speed advantage but the wind can wreck havoc on those light little pills.

A shooter who knows his rifle and bullet will have the advantage of a guy who is gaming it with speed and a heavy rifle. They can’t adapt to changing conditions.

 

[sachsmart]

I am in a somewhat similar conundrum. I have a velocity node at 2820fps with my 6BR with decent SD. I trued my BC to 900yrds but have to take off 2/10ths at a 1000 & beyond. Was debating if I should stick with the load or try to find a higher plateau with good SDs

 

[JustSendit]

You’re good dude! Run where your gun is happy don’t chase speed, if you see pressure back it down. One difference today is guys were pushing 3000-3100 6cm and in adverse conditions getting pressure and not making a big bump in wind deflection.

Some folks are saying like 2600 and they’re seeing “better” trace, I don’t know about that look at a Bryan litz WEZ calculation and giving up a lot just to be slow seems counter productive. 105 at 2600 vs 2800 is a decent difference.

Shoot where the gun is happy and there’s no pressure.

 

[BigJohn141]

Take this with a grain a of salt as I am still a novice shooter. A few matches 10 years ago under my belt and jumping back in this year myself. I’m shooting a 6cm running factory ammo at the moment so the speed is what it is, right at 3050fps. My dope is roughly .2 to .3 mils every 25 yards out past 600ish to 1000 yards. I think this will be helpful because if I have an error in ranging or my velocities fluctuate a little, I still have a good chance of catching the edge of the target. Same goes for wind, it might help with a slightly off wind call as well. After I burn up all this factory ammo, I will find a load that might be a little slower to help push barrel life out past 1500 rounds. Time will tell.

 

[Sheldon N]

I’m shooting a 6.5X47 Lapua, with a load that’s not setting the world on fire with muzzle velocity. It’s transonic past 1300yds, just not super fast. I let the accuracy node dictate speed.

The other day on one of Lowlight’s podcasts, I heard Frank talking to PRS guys about having an edge over because of muzzle velocity. Got me thinking…. Is bullet speed really that important on the gaming side of long range shooting? It very well may be due to wind calls. Just wanted to get your thoughts or experiences.

Your gun is fine, the ballistics aren't that important.

FWIW I shoot out west, there's plenty of wind here, and I've placed well over the past couple seasons of competition. My go to load for over a year now has been 105 hybrids at 2865fps.

Now if you already have all the PRS skill sets, and you can keep those skills/spotting shots/recoil management at 100% all while shooting a heavier bullet with better ballistics - in a gun that doesn't torch the barrel and go out of tune easily (or if you have constant fresh barrels), then I'd say yes there's an advantage to shooting a better gun. Some guys have had good success with 6.5 heavies. That being said, a Dasher still won the season (again) this year.

 

[b6graham]

there's a reason guys went from shoot 6SLR to 6BR and not the other way around

 

[gconnoyer]

Pick a ballistic calculator and run the numbers. Throw a 90* 10mph wind or even 20 and see what it spits out.
You’ll see that even an extra 100fps gets you very minimal performance with wind.

I used to run my dasher at 2950-2970, but backed it down to get a load that I could shoot in the rain, I found a good spot about 120fps slower and its much less finicky.

 

[Sheldon N]

Pick a ballistic calculator and run the numbers. Throw a 90* 10mph wind or even 20 and see what it spits out.
You’ll see that even an extra 100fps gets you very minimal performance with wind.

Rather than 10 or 20mph wind numbers, I like to look at the 3mph wind. The thinking goes like this.... if I walk up to a stage and make my wind plan and calculate my holds but it turns out that my wind estimate was wrong by 3mph or there is a 3mph switch in the wind mid-stage, how much am I going to miss by?

Examples with a slow dasher with 105's vs a fast 6 creed with 110 Atips. Here's how much you would miss by with a 3mph error.

500 yards / Slow Dasher = 0.3 mils / Fast Creed = 0.2 mils
800 yards / Slow Dasher = 0.5 mils / Fast Creed = 0.4 mils
1100 yards / Slow Dasher = 0.8 mils / Fast Creed = 0.6 mils

You can see even at the relative extremes of ballistics options it's only buying you a tenth at most target distances. So maybe an edge hit here or there. At farther distances you still are going to miss on a standard size target and need to make a correction.

 

[sachsmart]

Rather than 10 or 20mph wind numbers, I like to look at the 3mph wind. The thinking goes like this.... if I walk up to a stage and make my wind plan and calculate my holds but it turns out that my wind estimate was wrong by 3mph or there is a 3mph switch in the wind mid-stage, how much am I going to miss by?

Examples with a slow dasher with 105's vs a fast 6 creed with 110 Atips. Here's how much you would miss by with a 3mph error.

500 yards / Slow Dasher = 0.3 mils / Fast Creed = 0.2 mils
800 yards / Slow Dasher = 0.5 mils / Fast Creed = 0.4 mils
1100 yards / Slow Dasher = 0.8 mils / Fast Creed = 0.6 mils

You can see even at the relative extremes of ballistics options it's only buying you a tenth at most target distances. So maybe an edge hit here or there. At farther distances you still are going to miss on a standard size target and need to make a correction.

Awesome example. What would you consider a slow dasher? <2800 fps?

 

[gconnoyer]

Rather than 10 or 20mph wind numbers, I like to look at the 3mph wind. The thinking goes like this.... if I walk up to a stage and make my wind plan and calculate my holds but it turns out that my wind estimate was wrong by 3mph or there is a 3mph switch in the wind mid-stage, how much am I going to miss by?

Examples with a slow dasher with 105's vs a fast 6 creed with 110 Atips. Here's how much you would miss by with a 3mph error.

500 yards / Slow Dasher = 0.3 mils / Fast Creed = 0.2 mils
800 yards / Slow Dasher = 0.5 mils / Fast Creed = 0.4 mils
1100 yards / Slow Dasher = 0.8 mils / Fast Creed = 0.6 mils

You can see even at the relative extremes of ballistics options it's only buying you a tenth at most target distances. So maybe an edge hit here or there. At farther distances you still are going to miss on a standard size target and need to make a correction.

Thats a great thought process!
Or if the wind dips or picks up by 3mph what sort of difference will you see

 

[Sheldon N]

Awesome example. What would you consider a slow dasher? <2800 fps?

I ran those numbers based on my own ballistics, 2865 fps with a pointed 105 hybrid at .283 G7, the 6 Creed was 3050 fps .310 G7. 1000 ft elevation and 30 degrees (the weather from our last match).

 

[canezach]

Shoot a 25 Creedmoor and get the best of both worlds!! High BC, heavy for caliber bullet at 2900 fps. Problem solved!

 

[Jmkjr87]

I run a 6.5x47 lapua also. I had a 30 inch barrel and was getting 2880 fps with lapua scenars and 2940 with 140 hybrids. You know what that got me? A tenth or 2 of less wind drift and about 3 to 5 thousands of burned up throat every 100 rounds. I was new to PRS so I figured more speed will help me in the wind. I went to a 2 day match and got to talking and everybody told me I'm running those bullets to fast. They said keep it around 2750 or somewhere in there where the node is. So that's what I did and my throat erosion problem went away. This year and a new 26 inch barrel im running 2730 for the hybrids and 2744 for the 139 scenars because I get the best ES SD numbers. I got 600 rounds on this barrel and haven't had the throat erode 1 thou yet. Speed isn't everything

 

[Nostradumbass]

I run a 6.5x47 lapua also. I had a 30 inch barrel and was getting 2880 fps with lapua scenars and 2940 with 140 hybrids. You know what that got me? A tenth or 2 of less wind drift and about 3 to 5 thousands of burned up throat every 100 rounds. I was new to PRS so I figured more speed will help me in the wind. I went to a 2 day match and got to talking and everybody told me I'm running those bullets to fast. They said keep it around 2750 or somewhere in there where the node is. So that's what I did and my throat erosion problem went away. This year and a new 26 inch barrel im running 2730 for the hybrids and 2744 for the 139 scenars because I get the best ES SD numbers. I got 600 rounds on this barrel and haven't had the throat erode 1 thou yet. Speed isn't everything

Thanks man,
Yes I’m running a 24” barrel and pushing 130gn VLD’s 2725fps~. Very accurate and consistent.
My rifle isn’t set up for “true” PRS shooting, but it’s just such a fun gun to shoot, I hate to change much about it.

 

[Jmkjr87]

I

Thanks man,
Yes I’m running a 24” barrel and pushing 130gn VLD’s 2725fps~. Very accurate and consistent.
My rifle isn’t set up for “true” PRS shooting, but it’s just such a fun gun to shoot, I hate to change much about it.
View attachment 7815866

Would push the 130s a little faster if you can find a good node around 2775 to 2800. If not then don't worry about it. As far as prs, that gun will work fine. Get out there and do it, don't fuck around, sign up and go to a match. What part of the country are you in?

 

[Nostradumbass]

I
Would push the 130s a little faster if you can find a good node around 2775 to 2800. If not then don't worry about it. As far as prs, that gun will work fine. Get out there and do it, don't fuck around, sign up and go to a match. What part of the country are you in?

Thanks man!

I’m in SE Texas. CCC Shooting Complex in Navasota is my closest place to shoot PRS I believe.

 

[Jmkjr87]

Thanks man!

I’m in SE Texas. CCC Shooting Complex in Navasota is my closest place to shoot PRS I believe.

I'm in upstate NY, If u were out near me I would show u the ropes. Find somebody to show u around at your first match. Either or friend or somebody on here. I met someone on here who showed me what to do my first match and that really helped. I asked him a million questions and since he volunteered I didn't feel like I wad a bother