How is 7PRC better than 7 Rem Mag?

[KCode]

I was looking at possibly getting a 7 Rem Mag rifle but then I just decided to look at the 7 PRC. The 7 Rem Mag has more case capacity for power, uses the same bullet sizes, but I was watching a video and saw this and the PRC is kicking it's butt.

Was thinking of grabbing a Bergara B-14 HMR for $900. Would that be about the best 7 PRC rifle for under $1000?

 

[Kickin45]

Google is your friend.

But I’ll throw a bone
PRC case design is superior to ancient of days 7RM.
PRC is 65k pressure
7RM is 61K

Those are just 2. Google the rest and educate yourself. Cheers

 

[brazz04]

The 7PRC is a bit slower than what Hornady shows on the box. For example my 22" proof barrel on a Tikka is shooting the 175 ELD-X at 2825fps. The federal load with the ELD-X bullet is supposedly going a bit faster though so that may be a different option.

This thread has some info on it.
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/whats-going-on-with-the-factory-hornady-7-prc-ammo.331387/

 

[BenW]

All the PRC cartridges are Evolutionary magnums optimized for modern high BC (long) bullets. Hornady is a SAAMI member so they are interested in standardizing the chamber and twist so that off the shelf rifles and ammo will work well. You can get to the same place with custom builds in older magnums, but that’s not Hornady’s focus.

 

[KCode]

Will these PRCs stay on top for a while or will we see another "better" calibers in say 3-4 years?

 

[3Gunshooter7681]

About 20 different podcasts on 7 PRC and why Hornady created it. And what brazz and Ben said. The Federal 175gr do get closer to 3k FPS

 

[Cascade Hemi]

This is like asking how 6CM is better than 243Win. If you're hand loading for a fast twist barrel there's no real advantage. However, 243Win and 7RM are not viewed in the marketplace as long-range precision cartridges while 6CM and 7PRC are. Off the shelf rifle and ammunition offerings for 7RM are generally hunting specific so if you want a factory LR rifle and ammo the 7PRC will be an advantage. There are exceptions but this is broadly true.

 

[jdonovan]

it might or might not be depending on your use case. Tell us what you need the cartridge to do for you and we can help guide you to a good fit.

 

[AznTactical]

Late last year I did a good amount of research and was torn between 7 Rem Mag, 7 PRC and 300 PRC. I used factory data to help me calculate dope to 1 mile. Based on available data the 7 PRC was the winner due to having less recoil than the 300 PRC.
Fast forward to today, about 250rds into my 7 PRC with 24" barrel, I CANNOT get close to Hornady's advertised MV even with handloads. I can only get low 2900's using H1000 before seeing pressure signs and groups opening up. I am over 150 fps short when using Retumbo at max charge per Hodgdon's website. Your results may vary.

 

[fdkay]

The answer to this question is easy.
The SAAMI specifications for each cartridge spell the difference.
The PRC is designed specifically for long, heavy for caliber, high BC bullets.
The Rem Mag is designed for lighter, shorter, lees efficient bullets (what they had when it was developed).
A 162 grain factory load is considered heavy for the rem mag with a few 175 grain loads available.
A 175 load is standard for the PRC with 180 being pretty common.
A standard bullet for the RM is the 139/140 class make up the majority of loads.
If you handload and have a custom throated RM barrel, there is no benefit in the PRC over the RM. Of course if you lose your ammo on your trip, your relegated to lighter bullet weights and a long jump to the lands with factory loads.

 

[beetroot]

Will these PRCs stay on top for a while or will we see another "better" calibers in say 3-4 years?

Hornady has done a great job with basically every cartridge they have released, the likelihood of a new 7mm magnum appearing that is "better" is pretty slim.

Although I could see a short action 7mm magnum cartridge becoming popular but that wouldn't be better, unless you wanted a short action.

 

[psharon78]

All things being equal, the PRC isn't going to get you massive gains over the Rem Mag. The PRC is better designed to shoot heavy for caliber 7mm bullets better than the Rem mag. I've noticed I cannot seat bullets out as far in my Tikka in 7mm Rem mag. So if I decide to rebarrel, I'd probably go with PRC.

However, I do have a custom Savage that was chambered for the 180gr Berger Hybrid. It's amazingly accurate. The load I have is around 2950fps or so. This performance will be the same if I rechamber to PRC. I won't gain anything.

 

[jdonovan]

there are a bevy of 'short magnums' introduced in the early 2000's, and the 270/300 are the only ones that seem to show any staying power. I'm basing that on multiple companies still building rifles and cataloging ammo for the cartridge.

 

[Bevo]

The 7PRC is a bit slower than what Hornady shows on the box. For example my 22" proof barrel on a Tikka is shooting the 175 ELD-X at 2825fps. The federal load with the ELD-X bullet is supposedly going a bit faster though so that may be a different option.

This thread has some info on it.
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/whats-going-on-with-the-factory-hornady-7-prc-ammo.331387/

My 22" C6 barrel gets around 2850 fps with factory 175 ELD-X, so very similar results.

N570 is where the velo is at. 74gr w/ Berger EH 175 gave me 3088 fps over a 10 shot group. Barrel burner, but it's a hunting setup so who cares.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Im a huge fan of the faster twist. I like 7RM, but I jumped on the 7SAUM bandwagon a long time ago, and never looked back. The 7PRC is incredible shooting 180 ELDM's, in my SRS they are extremely consistent and carry a lot of energy even beyond 1K.

 

[Taylorbok]

If you're hand loading for a fast twist barrel there's no real advantage.

The 7 PRC will mag feed with heavy bullet's seated above the donut

Late last year I did a good amount of research and was torn between 7 Rem Mag, 7 PRC and 300 PRC. I used factory data to help me calculate dope to 1 mile. Based on available data the 7 PRC was the winner due to having less recoil than the 300 PRC.
Fast forward to today, about 250rds into my 7 PRC with 24" barrel, I CANNOT get close to Hornady's advertised MV even with handloads. I can only get low 2900's using H1000 before seeing pressure signs and groups opening up. I am over 150 fps short when using Retumbo at max charge per Hodgdon's website. Your results may vary. View attachment 8460524

From what I've seen box speeds are usually based on a 26" tube, which would be good for about 60 fps (or more) over a 24. Personally I'd keep increasing charge weight until I saw pressure signs and then back it off from there (obviously be careful).
Looking at your charts I'd say 2810 fps from a 300 PRC with a 225 is on the slow side, I'd imagine you'd get 2900-3000.
Also the 7-300 PRC i've seen are closer to 3200 with a 180.

 

[AznTactical]

From what I've seen box speeds are usually based on a 26" tube, which would be good for about 60 fps (or more) over a 24. Personally I'd keep increasing charge weight until I saw pressure signs and then back it off from there (obviously be careful).
Looking at your charts I'd say 2810 fps from a 300 PRC with a 225 is on the slow side, I'd imagine you'd get 2900-3000.
Also the 7-300 PRC i've seen are closer to 3200 with a 180.

No, not in this case. All data that I extracted during my research PRIOR to settling with a 7 PRC are from 24" barrels. Even Hodgdon's and Hornady's reloading data are 24". No way a 225 ELDM can get close to 3k out of a 24" 300 PRC. My buddy's 30" 300 PRC is maxed out at 2990 with 225 ELDM with H1000. He run's em at 2950 to be safe.

 

[Taylorbok]

No way a 225 ELDM can get close to 3k out of a 24" 300 PRC. My buddy's 30" 300 PRC is maxed out at 2990 with 225 ELDM with H1000. He run's em at 2950 to be safe.

I run a 30 SM with a 32" tube and I run the 250's @ 2950-2975 fps depending on the barrel.
I've talked to a few guys who are running a 300 PRC at basically the same speed but everyone I've talked to is running N570.
That's what I was basing my numbers off.

I've run mine up a fair bit faster before I saw over pressure signs but I was happy with this speed and it seems to hold together well for long strings of fire

 

[Railguner]

The PRC being designed for heavy for caliber bullets is a great hunting cartridge. As is known, they designed it to run at 3000 fps but due to lack of availability of certain powders, due to the war, they had to use other blends and this dropped the speed. Federal must have had a stash of the fast blend because, unless you have a slow barrel you will get 3000 or more from their loads with a 24" barrel. Try the Federal Premium 7mm PRC 175gr ELD-X.

 

[Emerson0311]

N570 seems to add 100fps to most cartridges vs similar burn rate powders. Like RL26. Like my father says, “no such thing as a free lunch”.

 

[KCode]

Wonder why any of the military hasn't picked the PRC for field work?

 

[diggler1833]

I put together a 7mm RM for my brother about 3 years ago on an Origin action. The barrel is a 1:8.7 Krieger that was throated a little longer for the 168-180gr Bergers. It is a fantastic rifle that my brother raves about every time he shoots it. I think he drew a cow elk tag in SD this year, and is going to use it finally on game.

That being said; the 7 PRC does the same in a factory chambered option...minus the belt. There is the "advantage" of it IMO. It doesn't provide any real horsepower over the RM unless you're loading it to near max pressures.

I tried to like the 7 PRC well enough to put toget my own, but the more I read the less it excites me over my own 7mm RM...minus that optimization to run heavies. There's just not enough differentiation from the PRC and several other already existing cartridges (other than factory support).

^ In the end, I just bought a 7-300 PRC Manson reamer with a .225 freebore, and a 31", 1:8 Bartlein heavy palma blank. My goal is to have fun with the 190-195gr Bergers. The stuff is going to the gunsmith next week to get chambered so I can run a switch barrel setup on my old Surgeon 1086. I believe this is what the 7 PRC should have been.

 

[steve123]

Will these PRCs stay on top for a while or will we see another "better" calibers in say 3-4 years?

More velocity equates to less barrel life and more recoil. So the question becomes which compromise is better to the individual. So 7mm Ultra Mag to me is way overbore and 7PRC more like what I'd go with, though 7Saum is tempting too.

I gotta say though that my friend has a 300PRC and a 7Saum and that 300 with 230's puts that 7Saum to shame in the wind. It's amazing to see how many more hits stay on the steel at longer distances with the 300. It does recoil more but its not bad since he has a large brake on it.

As far as reloading goes I don't like the magnum belts anymore after the fiasco of my last 7mag. After 3 firings a bulge just ahead of the belt caused hard bolt close so it was either buy the Willis tool or throw the brass away. I bought the tool and found out the extra step in the reloading process was silly afterall.

I'm running 6.5 Saum in a long action now but I might do 7PRC after this barrel.

 

[Taylorbok]

I built a 284 Win-Imp and it finished just in time for 7 PRC to be released which is basically the exact performance I was looking for.
Next barrel I'll prob go to a 7 PRC, a few buddies have gone that route and it's nice to have interchangeable ammo if needed.

 

[secondofangle2]

What velocities are guys seeing with 180s in 7PRC these days (&what barrel length)?

 

[Taylorbok]

What velocities are guys seeing with 180s in 7PRC these days (&what barrel length)?

buddy is running 184 bergers at 2850 from a 26" using retumbo.

Hodgdon claims 2980 or something like that. I don't think we could get there with out blowing primers.

 

[Ronws]

Wonder why any of the military hasn't picked the PRC for field work?

I have also wondered the same thing.

Ryan Cleckner was a sniper team leader in the Ranger 1/75 for a number of tours in the GWOT. His weapon in service was a .300 WM. He preferred that because it ran faster with a heavier slug and got through wind better than a .308. In his own words, he could dial for distance and then hold left or right edge of target zone, such as an IPSC target size, into the wind and get a hit in the zone out to a few hundred yards. Most of his engagements were 300 yards and less.

He has become a huge fan of the .300 PRC and hunts with it and thinks Rangers should adopt it. Easily, as seen above, pushing 225 grains really fast.

But I think one could be as effective at enemy agent interdiction with 7 PRC and at least 180 to maybe 200 grains. Less recoil.

But, as I have learned, what the Army uses can often be about politics rather than effectiveness.

 

[Taylorbok]

I have also wondered the same thing.

Ryan Cleckner was a sniper team leader in the Ranger 1/75 for a number of tours in the GWOT. His weapon in service was a .300 WM. He preferred that because it ran faster with a heavier slug and got through wind better than a .308. In his own words, he could dial for distance and then hold left or right edge of target zone, such as an IPSC target size, into the wind and get a hit in the zone out to a few hundred yards. Most of his engagements were 300 yards and less.

He has become a huge fan of the .300 PRC and hunts with it and thinks Rangers should adopt it. Easily, as seen above, pushing 225 grains really fast.

But I think one could be as effective at enemy agent interdiction with 7 PRC and at least 180 to maybe 200 grains. Less recoil.

But, as I have learned, what the Army uses can often be about politics rather than effectiveness.

it's not easy to change over. Also it's not like it's some mystical cartridge that is better than absolutely everything else for every application. Ballistically it won't keep up with a 300 NM shooting 230's

 

[Ronws]

it's not easy to change over. Also it's not like it's some mystical cartridge that is better than absolutely everything else for every application. Ballistically it won't keep up with a 300 NM shooting 230's

I have heard that, too. In fact, I had seen a video some years ago when Barrett won the contract for SF weapons. The MRAD, with barrels and parts for .308 W, .300 NM, and .338 NM. Ideally, the .300 NM was for enemy interdiction and the .338 was for objects such as cars and small buildings and fuel depots, etcetera.

 

[Holliday]

Google is your friend.

Google hates you.

 

[Long Range 338]

OP

Sorry if this has been answered previously but this thread is TLDR with too many derails.

In a nutshell the 7 PRC is setup for long range shooting in a factory rifle with factory ammo. If you wanted to do the same with the 7 RM you would have to have a custom rifle built and for using the highest bc bullets you would run into magazine length issues trying to seat your bullets near the lands.

The 7 PRC does this out of the box.

 

[cas6969]

Wonder why any of the military hasn't picked the PRC for field work?

Because only the bad guys shoot 7mm.

 

[The_Steward]

What velocities are guys seeing with 180s in 7PRC these days (&what barrel length)?

The Honady Match factory loads kind of sucks for velocity, if that helps. ~2700 in my 20" barrel. I have some Berger 180s, but I probably won't get around to loading those up until January. Looks like you need N570 if you want the highest velocities, but Ramshot LRT also shows good numbers on Hodgdon and looks to have a similar burn rate.

 

[Ronws]

And, FWIW, I have a 7 PRC and I like it. I never had a 7 RM. My other rifles are .308 and one in 5.56. So, this is my first 7 mm rifle and first magnum round and first standard long action.

And I agree, if you want a factory rifle and ammo that shoots pretty dang well out of the box, 7 PRC is a good choice.

For this guys have 7 RM, no need to change. I have seen a few videos of taking down an elk with a 7 RM.

Some people, like one of my bosses, likes .300 WM for some tougher game. He used one on an Aoudad Sheep.

But he has taken antelope and whitetail with a .25-06.

So, I am not sure of the advantage. On paper, the 7 PRC does this a little better by pushing the heavier bullet at good speed (if you can get the right powder.)

And, when 7 PRC first came out, there was limited ammo. Whereas, many people had stocked plenty of stuff and were used to 7 RM. If it works, don't fix it is a maxim that usually applies.

 

[Long Range 338]

The Honady Match factory loads kind of sucks for velocity, if that helps. ~2700 in my 20" barrel. I have some Berger 180s, but I probably won't get around to loading those up until January. Looks like you need N570 if you want the highest velocities, but Ramshot LRT also shows good numbers on Hodgdon and looks to have a similar burn rate.

Apparently Hornady wasn't able to continue loading with the original powder they spec'd the factory ammo velocities with. Guys in my area are having good luck with powders in the H1000 burn rate. I'm currently running Staball HD and it runs well with the case as full as possible.

 

[AZLong]

Wonder why any of the military hasn't picked the PRC for field work?

DoD just bought this formidable new sniper rifle in .300 PRC

The MRAD rifle is chambered in .300 PRC, a different caliber than what is being asked for in the Advanced Sniper Rifle program.

www.armytimes.com

 

[FuhQ]

 

[Ronws]

DoD just bought this formidable new sniper rifle in .300 PRC

The MRAD rifle is chambered in .300 PRC, a different caliber than what is being asked for in the Advanced Sniper Rifle program.

www.armytimes.com

Looks like Cleckner got his wish.

 

[Taylorbok]

DoD just bought this formidable new sniper rifle in .300 PRC

The MRAD rifle is chambered in .300 PRC, a different caliber than what is being asked for in the Advanced Sniper Rifle program.

www.armytimes.com

" Which is for an undisclosed number of rifles in 300 PRC"
This could literally mean zero rifles.
They already use 300 Norma, still doesn't make any sense to adopt 300 PRC as well. That is splitting hairs at best.

 

[Im2bent]

" Which is for an undisclosed number of rifles in 300 PRC"
This could literally mean zero rifles.
They already use 300 Norma, still doesn't make any sense to adopt 300 PRC as well. That is splitting hairs at best.

Listen up there's no graft if there are no sales. Useful has nothing to do with it. The spice must flow.

 

[AZLong]

" Which is for an undisclosed number of rifles in 300 PRC"
This could literally mean zero rifles.
They already use 300 Norma, still doesn't make any sense to adopt 300 PRC as well. That is splitting hairs at best.

A contract for no items? Would seem a bit odd. But I was answering a q, not playing advocate. Though I do own a 300PRC, and it does perform. But I also had no other high power .30s

 

[Taylorbok]

A contract for no items? Would seem a bit odd. But I was answering a q, not playing advocate. Though I do own a 300PRC, and it does perform. But I also had no other high power .30s

The contract is for Barrett MRAD's which they are for sure getting in 338 NM, 300 NM and 7.62 NATO.
My speculation is the contract contains precisely zero 300 PRC

 

[AZLong]

The contract is for Barrett MRAD's which they are for sure getting in 338 NM, 300 NM and 7.62 NATO.
My speculation is the contract contains precisely zero 300 PRC

And my speculation is there are more than zero, and is equally accurate. I guess it balances out.

 

[AZLong]

And it would seem odd that Hornady would get a contract to supply ammo for a nonexistent weapon...

Hornady to supply 300 PRC ammunition to US spec ops snipers

Hornady has been awarded a contract to provide its 300 PRC ammunition to the United States Department of Defense.

www.militarytimes.com

 

[secondofangle2]

Has anything ever beat the 300 Remington ultra Magnum as far as a 30 caliber goes?

The drawback has always been brass availability, but other than that…

 

[jdonovan]

i think the 30-378 Weatherby Magnum, is a bit more energy than the 300 ultra, but only by 50-100 depending on the loading, so I'm sure there are sources that will put the ultra ahead of the weatherby

 

[Taylorbok]

And it would seem odd that Hornady would get a contract to supply ammo for a nonexistent weapon...

Hornady to supply 300 PRC ammunition to US spec ops snipers

Hornady has been awarded a contract to provide its 300 PRC ammunition to the United States Department of Defense.

www.militarytimes.com

That means I’m wrong. Still seems strange to make that change for almost no difference. To me it seemed the first article was being vague intentionally and just throwing 300 PRC in there to push it to the public

Has anything ever beat the 300 Remington ultra Magnum as far as a 30 caliber goes?

The drawback has always been brass availability, but other than that…

300 RUM problem is mag feeding with the heavies.

 

[Maurygold]

Has anything ever beat the 300 Remington ultra Magnum as far as a 30 caliber goes?

The drawback has always been brass availability, but other than that…

no but it's overbored and has abysmal barrel life

 

[Roksliding]

Will these PRCs stay on top for a while or will we see another "better" calibers in say 3-4 years?

One thing is FOR CERTAIN- there will be a faster flatter more efficient less recoil better BC option within 2 years of any given time… time is a flat circle.

 

[surgeon260]

Has anything ever beat the 300 Remington ultra Magnum as far as a 30 caliber goes?

The drawback has always been brass availability, but other than that…

Any number of wildcats beat the RUM. 30-338 Lapua Improved comes to mind.