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Fieldcraft How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
- Thread starter bmt
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Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
It may appear heartless, but 'Civilzation' is mainly a means for defeating natural selection. Survival traits are become irrelevent and insidiously bred out of the population.
It used to be that war and pestilence acted as a natural check on excess population. This is no longer the case.
Many hail this as the great triumph of intellect over natural catastrophe; but what it really represents is the ultimate seed of our own extinction. We have gradually, deliberately defeated our own individual and species survival tools.
Every so long, nature pushes the reset. The Dinosaurs already understand what we will eventually learn.
It has all happened before, repeatedly.
We might benefit from getting some of our eggs out of the only basket, but the folks in charge would rather spend the money buying votes. In effect, they have converted democracy into the ultimate tool of species extinction.
Greg
It may appear heartless, but 'Civilzation' is mainly a means for defeating natural selection. Survival traits are become irrelevent and insidiously bred out of the population.
It used to be that war and pestilence acted as a natural check on excess population. This is no longer the case.
Many hail this as the great triumph of intellect over natural catastrophe; but what it really represents is the ultimate seed of our own extinction. We have gradually, deliberately defeated our own individual and species survival tools.
Every so long, nature pushes the reset. The Dinosaurs already understand what we will eventually learn.
It has all happened before, repeatedly.
We might benefit from getting some of our eggs out of the only basket, but the folks in charge would rather spend the money buying votes. In effect, they have converted democracy into the ultimate tool of species extinction.
Greg
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
I believe that mankind will stand as evolution's example / proof that individual intelligence is less desirable (long term) than collective intelligence.
Greed, it's a mutha f'er.
I believe that mankind will stand as evolution's example / proof that individual intelligence is less desirable (long term) than collective intelligence.
Greed, it's a mutha f'er.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
It comes in every lifetime, it just has the potential for more widespread devastation as civilization spreads and permeates more of the planet's structure. This is the communication age, in the broader sense, where the local becomes the universal overnight.
Any concept that implies control is an illusion. Any strategy that assumes preconceived conditions is flawed. One does not prepare for disaster with things, the task is about mental capabilities and ways of thinking detached from the mainstream.
Greg
It comes in every lifetime, it just has the potential for more widespread devastation as civilization spreads and permeates more of the planet's structure. This is the communication age, in the broader sense, where the local becomes the universal overnight.
Any concept that implies control is an illusion. Any strategy that assumes preconceived conditions is flawed. One does not prepare for disaster with things, the task is about mental capabilities and ways of thinking detached from the mainstream.
Greg
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2008 presidential election...
</div></div>
YES!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2008 presidential election...
YES!
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
I don't know that I'd call it a SHTF deal but twice in the last 10 years I had to evacuate do to fires.
Rather simple process. I load the valuables (spelled "guns") in the back of my wife's Exployer.
We have one of those horse trailers with living quarter. We load the horses and dogs in the trailier, then head for town where we can stay at the fairgounds. Our trailer is self contained but we can plug into the FGs electricity. They have feed and water on hand for out horses.
Anything else I can handle. Got two generators for power outages, and a JD 4020 with loader if the snow gets too deep.
I can't imagine anything else happening around here that we can't handle easily.
I don't know that I'd call it a SHTF deal but twice in the last 10 years I had to evacuate do to fires.
Rather simple process. I load the valuables (spelled "guns") in the back of my wife's Exployer.
We have one of those horse trailers with living quarter. We load the horses and dogs in the trailier, then head for town where we can stay at the fairgounds. Our trailer is self contained but we can plug into the FGs electricity. They have feed and water on hand for out horses.
Anything else I can handle. Got two generators for power outages, and a JD 4020 with loader if the snow gets too deep.
I can't imagine anything else happening around here that we can't handle easily.
G
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Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't imagine anything else happening around here that we can't handle easily. </div></div>
Yellowstone, unzipping?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't imagine anything else happening around here that we can't handle easily. </div></div>
Yellowstone, unzipping?
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
In the Continental United States, there has not been a SHTF scenario since the civil war between 1861-65.
S Did HTF in WW2 and every war there after, but luckily it was on the enemies soil.
Now It is close to a SHTF scenario down on our southern border.
S has HTF in Mexico.
When I think of SHTF I am thinking of long term and harder to rebuild the damage.
In the Continental United States, there has not been a SHTF scenario since the civil war between 1861-65.
S Did HTF in WW2 and every war there after, but luckily it was on the enemies soil.
Now It is close to a SHTF scenario down on our southern border.
S has HTF in Mexico.
When I think of SHTF I am thinking of long term and harder to rebuild the damage.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
New Orleans/Katrina was a SHTF scenario.
A large earthquake - something you are NOT prepared for....nobody knows what, if anything, it could be...
Best just to prepare for that 3-5 day power outage.
I watched a show on History channel again, re-run, where a virus kills off a lot of huamns - how to survive after the fact.
And Apocolypse man, but in the end common sense and a bit of inginuity will go a very long way.
New Orleans/Katrina was a SHTF scenario.
A large earthquake - something you are NOT prepared for....nobody knows what, if anything, it could be...
Best just to prepare for that 3-5 day power outage.
I watched a show on History channel again, re-run, where a virus kills off a lot of huamns - how to survive after the fact.
And Apocolypse man, but in the end common sense and a bit of inginuity will go a very long way.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
To me a SHTF event is when help, is in the same boat as you. Only the strong, willing, an prepared will survive.
One can prepare in many ways but what, I've seen in the last 2-3 years tell me, many are getting ready for something that will not be pleasant, for the sheep, fans, or anyone that was involved in the cause. As always YMMV,...
To me a SHTF event is when help, is in the same boat as you. Only the strong, willing, an prepared will survive.
One can prepare in many ways but what, I've seen in the last 2-3 years tell me, many are getting ready for something that will not be pleasant, for the sheep, fans, or anyone that was involved in the cause. As always YMMV,...
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
I have to go with gunfighter 14e2 and silver bullet. Most of my family (4 families) lost everything in Katrina (house wise). They all lived in Lakeview (where you saw the helicopter dropping sand bags). I live in an 1895 built house on high ground with 3 feet of water under the house (used to flood all the time back then). We all left before the event. Having money in a bank that was a national chain; lots of insurance; and my family safe; albeit scaring; not shtf moment. I moved to Houston for 6 months; rebuilt the damaged portions of the house and moved back home....along with my family. I was very appreciative (and moved by) the outpouring of help and kindness met along the way. Plenty of food; water; shelter; work; and good people in Houston. It was like nothing ever happened in Houston. Shtf in my opinion is when everyone is in the same dire situation (not just a city). On a side note. I will say that when you really believe that you have lost everything (possessions); it makes you appreciate what really maters. Your faith and family. Everything else is just stuff.
I have to go with gunfighter 14e2 and silver bullet. Most of my family (4 families) lost everything in Katrina (house wise). They all lived in Lakeview (where you saw the helicopter dropping sand bags). I live in an 1895 built house on high ground with 3 feet of water under the house (used to flood all the time back then). We all left before the event. Having money in a bank that was a national chain; lots of insurance; and my family safe; albeit scaring; not shtf moment. I moved to Houston for 6 months; rebuilt the damaged portions of the house and moved back home....along with my family. I was very appreciative (and moved by) the outpouring of help and kindness met along the way. Plenty of food; water; shelter; work; and good people in Houston. It was like nothing ever happened in Houston. Shtf in my opinion is when everyone is in the same dire situation (not just a city). On a side note. I will say that when you really believe that you have lost everything (possessions); it makes you appreciate what really maters. Your faith and family. Everything else is just stuff.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2008 presidential election...
</div></div>
LOL exactly what I was thinking
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2008 presidential election...
LOL exactly what I was thinking
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
Not national but 2011 multiple towns here were evacuated for wildfires.many folks didn't have time to go load computers pictures etc grab a bag while getting the dogs was doable. Everything saved to a jump drive and bag of clothes and a little unneeded stuffis nice to have .....our firefighters did a great job and most people houses were never touched...a few people I work with lost everything....they diddnt have backup files or pics saved where they could grab and go either. Something like this could happen any day the fires lawyer for weeks here
Not national but 2011 multiple towns here were evacuated for wildfires.many folks didn't have time to go load computers pictures etc grab a bag while getting the dogs was doable. Everything saved to a jump drive and bag of clothes and a little unneeded stuffis nice to have .....our firefighters did a great job and most people houses were never touched...a few people I work with lost everything....they diddnt have backup files or pics saved where they could grab and go either. Something like this could happen any day the fires lawyer for weeks here
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
Hurricane Andrew, 1992
I was in the National Guard in Hollywood, Fl at the time, just left Active Service. Had the pleasure of patrolling Cutler Ridge/Homestead area for looters, and basic lunacy. Had the pleasure of detaining kids as young as 8, ladies as old as 88, because they felt they were "entitled" to something free...it was their turn. Cracked more than one collar bone with my trusty stick..crowds of 200-300 in the malls, drifting towards neighborhoods. Citizens were armed and ready to shoot if you "loot". During more than one dismounted patrol, had Vietnam Era Veterans, and every day Joe's, bring us 5.56 ammo to quel the chaos...said "thanks man, but we have plenty". 82nd came down to help, but since they were Federal, they got most of the MRE handing out duty and were basically a show of force.
When infrastructure fails, there will be packs of wolves. It really, was disgusting. However, there is always a class of people teetering on the edge, waiting for the moment to jump over it.
Hurricane Andrew, 1992
I was in the National Guard in Hollywood, Fl at the time, just left Active Service. Had the pleasure of patrolling Cutler Ridge/Homestead area for looters, and basic lunacy. Had the pleasure of detaining kids as young as 8, ladies as old as 88, because they felt they were "entitled" to something free...it was their turn. Cracked more than one collar bone with my trusty stick..crowds of 200-300 in the malls, drifting towards neighborhoods. Citizens were armed and ready to shoot if you "loot". During more than one dismounted patrol, had Vietnam Era Veterans, and every day Joe's, bring us 5.56 ammo to quel the chaos...said "thanks man, but we have plenty". 82nd came down to help, but since they were Federal, they got most of the MRE handing out duty and were basically a show of force.
When infrastructure fails, there will be packs of wolves. It really, was disgusting. However, there is always a class of people teetering on the edge, waiting for the moment to jump over it.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2008 presidential election...
</div></div>
I was waiting for this. LoL
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2008 presidential election...
I was waiting for this. LoL
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
My personal SHTF scenario was years ago when I drank that Kool-Aid at a Dead show at Red Rocks. I think it lasted 3 or 4 years till I saw a bumper sticker that said Jerry is dead Phish suck time to get a job,
My personal SHTF scenario was years ago when I drank that Kool-Aid at a Dead show at Red Rocks. I think it lasted 3 or 4 years till I saw a bumper sticker that said Jerry is dead Phish suck time to get a job,
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't imagine anything else happening around here that we can't handle easily. </div></div>
Yellowstone, unzipping?
</div></div>
In this SHTF scenario not many on the North American continent need to concern themselves, even here in Bama we would be under enough ash to be wiped out if the blast itself didn't get us.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't imagine anything else happening around here that we can't handle easily. </div></div>
Yellowstone, unzipping?
In this SHTF scenario not many on the North American continent need to concern themselves, even here in Bama we would be under enough ash to be wiped out if the blast itself didn't get us.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
Doc Dan> You STILL in Rhodesia ('scuse me, Zimbabwe)?? You've got more grit than most staying there in Mugabeland with his gangs roaming the countryside. You have monthly SHTF scenarios there.
Desert Rat> I'm one of those 'Vegas valley folks you fear will overrun you in a SHTF scenario but I won't be among them. I'm a hunter, 3 gun competitor and long range shooter and a backpacker and ski patroller. I've got lots of stores and even better, lots of skills.
SERIOUSLY BAD SHTF SCENARIOS:
1. Yellowstone Caldera (supervolcano) blows throwing huge amounts of ash nationwide. This caldera is showing signs of instability already and it blows roughly every 600,000 years. We're already about 10,000 years overdue.)
2. Terrorist biological attack in several large cities which is spread nationwide through fleeing residents
3. metor strike, BIG metor strike
4. east coast mega-tsunami from giant landslide in the Azore islands.
5. Some damn big "unknown unknown" (alien invasions?)(wait, that's already happened
)
6. the price of marijuana quadruples
Doc Dan> You STILL in Rhodesia ('scuse me, Zimbabwe)?? You've got more grit than most staying there in Mugabeland with his gangs roaming the countryside. You have monthly SHTF scenarios there.
Desert Rat> I'm one of those 'Vegas valley folks you fear will overrun you in a SHTF scenario but I won't be among them. I'm a hunter, 3 gun competitor and long range shooter and a backpacker and ski patroller. I've got lots of stores and even better, lots of skills.
SERIOUSLY BAD SHTF SCENARIOS:
1. Yellowstone Caldera (supervolcano) blows throwing huge amounts of ash nationwide. This caldera is showing signs of instability already and it blows roughly every 600,000 years. We're already about 10,000 years overdue.)
2. Terrorist biological attack in several large cities which is spread nationwide through fleeing residents
3. metor strike, BIG metor strike
4. east coast mega-tsunami from giant landslide in the Azore islands.
5. Some damn big "unknown unknown" (alien invasions?)(wait, that's already happened
)6. the price of marijuana quadruples
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Patriot Prepper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Reagan also pushed the Soviets really hard, if they did not back down, he really was ready to push the button. That could have been WW111. ...</div></div>
The Perestroika Deception : Memoranda to the Central Intelligence Agency by Anatoliy Golitsyn
New Lies for Old : the Communist Strategy of Deception and Disinformation by Anatoliy Golitsyn
If we mistrust "mainstream media" and the self-appointed "elite," why should we believe their falsified histories?
In the same vein, if we mistrust "conspiracy theories," why should we believe the official conspiracy theory?
If Communism "fell," why does the USA look day by day more like a Soviet police state?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Patriot Prepper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Reagan also pushed the Soviets really hard, if they did not back down, he really was ready to push the button. That could have been WW111. ...</div></div>
The Perestroika Deception : Memoranda to the Central Intelligence Agency by Anatoliy Golitsyn
New Lies for Old : the Communist Strategy of Deception and Disinformation by Anatoliy Golitsyn
If we mistrust "mainstream media" and the self-appointed "elite," why should we believe their falsified histories?
In the same vein, if we mistrust "conspiracy theories," why should we believe the official conspiracy theory?
If Communism "fell," why does the USA look day by day more like a Soviet police state?
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
There was a lot of lawlessness during and after the American Civil War, and some pretty rough times for a lot of the population.
People really need to take a hard look at the Great Depression...There was a lot of lawlessness, but there were a LOT more people that simply couldn't feed themselves...
Even during WWII there was rationing and some crime based on shortage.
these are the big 3... IMHO... there have been smaller events, a LOT have been mentioned here.. Katrina, 9/11, wildfires, quakes, local rioting... in most of these it's fairly easy to avoid the chaos w/ a full tank of gas, some friends or family outside the immediate area, and watching the news ( and actually thinking about what you see on that "news")... maybe add some cash on hand, a 72hr bag, and a CCW (just in case)...
9/11 and NYC: while this was a bad, BAD event, especially if you were there it and Katrina specifically, but MOST stuff mentioned aren't true SHTF scenarios because they 1: don't last very long, and 2: are very isolated to a small area... mostly luck will decide if you survive something like 9/11 initially, and people had warning about Katrina. After the initial "event" it's usually a relatively short journey to something fairly stable.
a true SHTF scenario lasts months or years and you can't really get away from it, it engulfs the whole country, if not the world...
right now the biggest threat is economic collapse, that may very well be cause by anything from another stock market crash to WWIII or a natural disaster, but MOST of us will only have to deal with the economic collapse and the lack of goods and services that follows...
learn to garden enough to feed your family and have a little to barter, same for raising meat and/or hunting...
figure out how and/or where you'll live w/o utilities, might very well be your current home, or it might be a "bug out" location...
have weapons (firearms and bows or the like) but also have a few traps and fishing gear, because MEAT will be more important than battle (at least after the first 30 days or 30 miles, YMMV depending on where you are and if you're staying there or moving)... so a Good 22lr and a LOT of ammo, a 12ga and a LOT of ammo will be more important than all those ARs and AKs and FMJ ammo (also cheaper)... a good pistol should always be on hand if possible...
There was a lot of lawlessness during and after the American Civil War, and some pretty rough times for a lot of the population.
People really need to take a hard look at the Great Depression...There was a lot of lawlessness, but there were a LOT more people that simply couldn't feed themselves...
Even during WWII there was rationing and some crime based on shortage.
these are the big 3... IMHO... there have been smaller events, a LOT have been mentioned here.. Katrina, 9/11, wildfires, quakes, local rioting... in most of these it's fairly easy to avoid the chaos w/ a full tank of gas, some friends or family outside the immediate area, and watching the news ( and actually thinking about what you see on that "news")... maybe add some cash on hand, a 72hr bag, and a CCW (just in case)...
9/11 and NYC: while this was a bad, BAD event, especially if you were there it and Katrina specifically, but MOST stuff mentioned aren't true SHTF scenarios because they 1: don't last very long, and 2: are very isolated to a small area... mostly luck will decide if you survive something like 9/11 initially, and people had warning about Katrina. After the initial "event" it's usually a relatively short journey to something fairly stable.
a true SHTF scenario lasts months or years and you can't really get away from it, it engulfs the whole country, if not the world...
right now the biggest threat is economic collapse, that may very well be cause by anything from another stock market crash to WWIII or a natural disaster, but MOST of us will only have to deal with the economic collapse and the lack of goods and services that follows...
learn to garden enough to feed your family and have a little to barter, same for raising meat and/or hunting...
figure out how and/or where you'll live w/o utilities, might very well be your current home, or it might be a "bug out" location...
have weapons (firearms and bows or the like) but also have a few traps and fishing gear, because MEAT will be more important than battle (at least after the first 30 days or 30 miles, YMMV depending on where you are and if you're staying there or moving)... so a Good 22lr and a LOT of ammo, a 12ga and a LOT of ammo will be more important than all those ARs and AKs and FMJ ammo (also cheaper)... a good pistol should always be on hand if possible...
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
I think Ill keep my ar too just in case but I agree mostly with what Force Multiplier said above.
I think Ill keep my ar too just in case but I agree mostly with what Force Multiplier said above.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned Katrina as possibly the best definition of a SHTF situation in modern times. All those folks unprepared and left in a situation of deperation, not knowing what to do, and then acting out on what they could do, the beer was the first items liberated and then the food. Desperation caused the townspeople to turn on the local government the then the local government turned on the national level.
Every atrocity you heard going on in the Superdome, people fighting against the local law enforcement and eachother, not having anything, but for those that were prepared were fine. if anything that event is a fine example on how it would start and provide a solid base for what you would need and what you wouldn't. For those that lived through it, they are probably the best prepared in the future.
Now imagine no way to fix it and you should get a very livid picture of what you need to do in order to survive. My plan has always been to make it to the countryside. The more the population, the more likely you will be overrun.
I can't include 9/11 because the majority of the folks in NYC pulled together rather than exploit a situation.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned Katrina as possibly the best definition of a SHTF situation in modern times. All those folks unprepared and left in a situation of deperation, not knowing what to do, and then acting out on what they could do, the beer was the first items liberated and then the food. Desperation caused the townspeople to turn on the local government the then the local government turned on the national level.
Every atrocity you heard going on in the Superdome, people fighting against the local law enforcement and eachother, not having anything, but for those that were prepared were fine. if anything that event is a fine example on how it would start and provide a solid base for what you would need and what you wouldn't. For those that lived through it, they are probably the best prepared in the future.
Now imagine no way to fix it and you should get a very livid picture of what you need to do in order to survive. My plan has always been to make it to the countryside. The more the population, the more likely you will be overrun.
I can't include 9/11 because the majority of the folks in NYC pulled together rather than exploit a situation.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 10ringping</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think Ill keep my ar too just in case but I agree mostly with what Force Multiplier said above.</div></div>
I never said an AR wasn't a damn nice thing to have.. I just think a good 22 rifle and a concealed pistol would get you a LOT further in the long run
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 10ringping</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think Ill keep my ar too just in case but I agree mostly with what Force Multiplier said above.</div></div>
I never said an AR wasn't a damn nice thing to have.. I just think a good 22 rifle and a concealed pistol would get you a LOT further in the long run
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
Never had a "SHTF" episode, but I had an "RPG hit the transmission well" episode once.
Does that count?
Never had a "SHTF" episode, but I had an "RPG hit the transmission well" episode once.
Does that count?
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
I'm a younger guy but I grew up hearing stories from my mom and grandpa about all the rioting in Detroit (1967 "12th st riots"). From what I understand, not the most fun. There were several warning shots fired at people coming on their property with mal-intent by my mom and my grandmother, and my grandfather was camping out at his machine shop to stop the looters there as well. He actually stupidly held some people at gun point until the police arrived. The way it has always been explained to me, and the way that I firmly believe it to be, there doesn't need to be a natural disaster for a shtf scenario. A lot of people are generally disgruntled with their financials, their marriage, you name it. All they are waiting for is an excuse to take advantage of a situation, and all their personal disgruntlement is their fuel for their rage.
I'm a younger guy but I grew up hearing stories from my mom and grandpa about all the rioting in Detroit (1967 "12th st riots"). From what I understand, not the most fun. There were several warning shots fired at people coming on their property with mal-intent by my mom and my grandmother, and my grandfather was camping out at his machine shop to stop the looters there as well. He actually stupidly held some people at gun point until the police arrived. The way it has always been explained to me, and the way that I firmly believe it to be, there doesn't need to be a natural disaster for a shtf scenario. A lot of people are generally disgruntled with their financials, their marriage, you name it. All they are waiting for is an excuse to take advantage of a situation, and all their personal disgruntlement is their fuel for their rage.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
You forgot one of the most outrageous events in US history. The Los Angeles City Riots after the Rodney King Verdict. Talk about an event. Major parts of the City were burnt to the ground with looting and complete lawlessness resulting. The National Guard showed up with no AMMO. The Korean part of LA would have been completely destroyed by the illegal lawless masses, however they resorted to organizing and shooting it out with the thousands of looters from the rooftops for three days. The City took a decade to recover. I am not Korean, but remember watching them on TV shooting at the waves of looters with no effect. Imagine a two hundred yard wide street (Vermont Blvd)with people from sidewalk to sidewalk, over a mile in length, looting, destroying and burning everything in sight.
Where were the PD? They were overwhelmed.
You forgot one of the most outrageous events in US history. The Los Angeles City Riots after the Rodney King Verdict. Talk about an event. Major parts of the City were burnt to the ground with looting and complete lawlessness resulting. The National Guard showed up with no AMMO. The Korean part of LA would have been completely destroyed by the illegal lawless masses, however they resorted to organizing and shooting it out with the thousands of looters from the rooftops for three days. The City took a decade to recover. I am not Korean, but remember watching them on TV shooting at the waves of looters with no effect. Imagine a two hundred yard wide street (Vermont Blvd)with people from sidewalk to sidewalk, over a mile in length, looting, destroying and burning everything in sight.
Where were the PD? They were overwhelmed.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
NRA shooter, that was in the very first post. But that example perfectly illustrated my point.
NRA shooter, that was in the very first post. But that example perfectly illustrated my point.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
katrina. leanred a lot, won,t get caught again. 30 days with no electric, ac, ice, comms. never again(and will never eat tuna out of a can again!!)
katrina. leanred a lot, won,t get caught again. 30 days with no electric, ac, ice, comms. never again(and will never eat tuna out of a can again!!)
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cinosbus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Being able to find and purify water and take local small game (rabbits & squirrels) seems reasonable to me - as well as being able to keep others from taking your stuff. </div></div>
Add stay warm and safe and there's 99% of the situations. Fleeting to the woods with an AR will create a SHTF in the woods with the other flee-ers in short order when a nut case wants to become the barbarian king of the woods.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cinosbus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Being able to find and purify water and take local small game (rabbits & squirrels) seems reasonable to me - as well as being able to keep others from taking your stuff. </div></div>
Add stay warm and safe and there's 99% of the situations. Fleeting to the woods with an AR will create a SHTF in the woods with the other flee-ers in short order when a nut case wants to become the barbarian king of the woods.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
Doc Dan you’ve got balls staying in Zim, my sister visited the place and said she was never more scared in her life, as she was blackmailed and threatened whilst there. She got out quick (minus the money blackmailed from her) and went to South Africa. However I hear from a mate living there that it too is pretty bad for whites; his neighbours were recently murdered in a farm invasion.
Doc Dan you’ve got balls staying in Zim, my sister visited the place and said she was never more scared in her life, as she was blackmailed and threatened whilst there. She got out quick (minus the money blackmailed from her) and went to South Africa. However I hear from a mate living there that it too is pretty bad for whites; his neighbours were recently murdered in a farm invasion.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
I worked in law enforcement for 48 years. Several agencies including state,county and city. None of them have sufficient stock piles of food, water or medical supplies. Their plans are to seize the supplies from area business. When that happens, where will you replace what you have used up? Especially if there is a large jail or prison nearby. Some agencies will have Civil Defence items stored but most agencies believe Home Land Security will come to our rescue when needed. All supply systems depend on electricity, telephones and computers. You take out the grid for the Western or other large portion of the U.S. and you will see SHTF within a few days. People will start killing to get food for their family especially if they have children. Our food supply system is very dependant on electricity. No power, no gas pumps. No gas, no trucks moving to bring food or water. If you do not have fire arms, people with guns will take everything of value from you including your life. If you don't believe me then look at the state and federal prisons. They are full and there hasen't been a real SHTF yet. How long does it take for dogs and cats to go wild? How long do you think a hungry pack of people that are starving will wait for Home Land Security to arrive. You need tools for protection and food for at least 72 hours for each member of your family. Just my two bits.
I worked in law enforcement for 48 years. Several agencies including state,county and city. None of them have sufficient stock piles of food, water or medical supplies. Their plans are to seize the supplies from area business. When that happens, where will you replace what you have used up? Especially if there is a large jail or prison nearby. Some agencies will have Civil Defence items stored but most agencies believe Home Land Security will come to our rescue when needed. All supply systems depend on electricity, telephones and computers. You take out the grid for the Western or other large portion of the U.S. and you will see SHTF within a few days. People will start killing to get food for their family especially if they have children. Our food supply system is very dependant on electricity. No power, no gas pumps. No gas, no trucks moving to bring food or water. If you do not have fire arms, people with guns will take everything of value from you including your life. If you don't believe me then look at the state and federal prisons. They are full and there hasen't been a real SHTF yet. How long does it take for dogs and cats to go wild? How long do you think a hungry pack of people that are starving will wait for Home Land Security to arrive. You need tools for protection and food for at least 72 hours for each member of your family. Just my two bits.
G
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Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JesseBB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I worked in law enforcement for 48 years. Several agencies including state,county and city. None of them have sufficient stock piles of food, water or medical supplies. Their plans are to seize the supplies from area business. When that happens, where will you replace what you have used up? Especially if there is a large jail or prison nearby. Some agencies will have Civil Defence items stored but most agencies believe Home Land Security will come to our rescue when needed. All supply systems depend on electricity, telephones and computers. You take out the grid for the Western or other large portion of the U.S. and you will see SHTF within a few days. People will start killing to get food for their family especially if they have children. Our food supply system is very dependant on electricity. No power, no gas pumps. No gas, no trucks moving to bring food or water. If you do not have fire arms, people with guns will take everything of value from you including your life. If you don't believe me then look at the state and federal prisons. They are full and there hasen't been a real SHTF yet. How long does it take for dogs and cats to go wild? How long do you think a hungry pack of people that are starving will wait for Home Land Security to arrive. You need tools for protection and food for at least 72 hours for each member of your family. Just my two bits. </div></div>
<span style="color: #CC0000">Damn!</span> Someone in Cal. with common sense. If you ever get to N/E Bama for whatever reason, look me up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JesseBB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I worked in law enforcement for 48 years. Several agencies including state,county and city. None of them have sufficient stock piles of food, water or medical supplies. Their plans are to seize the supplies from area business. When that happens, where will you replace what you have used up? Especially if there is a large jail or prison nearby. Some agencies will have Civil Defence items stored but most agencies believe Home Land Security will come to our rescue when needed. All supply systems depend on electricity, telephones and computers. You take out the grid for the Western or other large portion of the U.S. and you will see SHTF within a few days. People will start killing to get food for their family especially if they have children. Our food supply system is very dependant on electricity. No power, no gas pumps. No gas, no trucks moving to bring food or water. If you do not have fire arms, people with guns will take everything of value from you including your life. If you don't believe me then look at the state and federal prisons. They are full and there hasen't been a real SHTF yet. How long does it take for dogs and cats to go wild? How long do you think a hungry pack of people that are starving will wait for Home Land Security to arrive. You need tools for protection and food for at least 72 hours for each member of your family. Just my two bits. </div></div>
<span style="color: #CC0000">Damn!</span> Someone in Cal. with common sense. If you ever get to N/E Bama for whatever reason, look me up.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
Post-hurricane Elena. Police evacuated Pinellas county. I and my brothers stayed behind. Walked around the neighborhood - armed - the next day to, um, discourage, looters who stayed behind too. Police returned the NEXT day.
Never hurts to plan for the worst. May be nothing you haven't come across before, but there might be some surprises here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/77847015/Zombie-Attack-Plan
Post-hurricane Elena. Police evacuated Pinellas county. I and my brothers stayed behind. Walked around the neighborhood - armed - the next day to, um, discourage, looters who stayed behind too. Police returned the NEXT day.
Never hurts to plan for the worst. May be nothing you haven't come across before, but there might be some surprises here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/77847015/Zombie-Attack-Plan
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
3/11. Nuclear fallout warnings, no water, no electricity, gas lines were 2-4 hours, or park your car there the night before long, and you only got 4-5 liters.
Quite disappointed in the lack of help from my "Christian Family", and was helped more by the shop owner down the street that had a well under his bar saying take all the water you want. Water treatment facility was damaged by the quake and the tsunami, so it took our apartment 3 weeks, and the inlaws 1.5 months to get running water, while the next city had water and power the next day. Being japan, there was no rioting and really no theiving that I could tell, even though stores with 20 feet of broken plate glass windows sat stocked. If I could have a gun here, this would be the place for short-term SHTF
3/11. Nuclear fallout warnings, no water, no electricity, gas lines were 2-4 hours, or park your car there the night before long, and you only got 4-5 liters.
Quite disappointed in the lack of help from my "Christian Family", and was helped more by the shop owner down the street that had a well under his bar saying take all the water you want. Water treatment facility was damaged by the quake and the tsunami, so it took our apartment 3 weeks, and the inlaws 1.5 months to get running water, while the next city had water and power the next day. Being japan, there was no rioting and really no theiving that I could tell, even though stores with 20 feet of broken plate glass windows sat stocked. If I could have a gun here, this would be the place for short-term SHTF
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
I used to live in Thailand for 10 years back in 80. We don't have electricity yet.
I used to live in Thailand for 10 years back in 80. We don't have electricity yet.
Re: How Many actual SHTF scenarrios in your lifetime?
The scope of an emergency is often determined by the preparedness of its victims. I've heard people describe post-Sandy three-day power outages in NYC as disastrous. I've had three-day power outages at my place out here, and found them to be mostly an inconvenience, and definitely not a disaster (but, then, I've lived in the wilderness for upwards of three weeks at a time with no access to the outside world). My girlfriend grew up in the mountains about thirty miles west of here, and had a few times when they lost power for upwards of two weeks at a time. But, wood stoves, outdoor "refrigeration", and some candles and books helped them to pass the time pretty easily. At times they were snowed in for over a week up there, too.
So, one man's SHTF scenario might be an easy step back in time for others who are a bit more prepared.
The scope of an emergency is often determined by the preparedness of its victims. I've heard people describe post-Sandy three-day power outages in NYC as disastrous. I've had three-day power outages at my place out here, and found them to be mostly an inconvenience, and definitely not a disaster (but, then, I've lived in the wilderness for upwards of three weeks at a time with no access to the outside world). My girlfriend grew up in the mountains about thirty miles west of here, and had a few times when they lost power for upwards of two weeks at a time. But, wood stoves, outdoor "refrigeration", and some candles and books helped them to pass the time pretty easily. At times they were snowed in for over a week up there, too.
So, one man's SHTF scenario might be an easy step back in time for others who are a bit more prepared.
I worked for the Department of Corrections during the Watts riots. I was also in National Guard. We were called out and for a week areas of that part of LA reminded me of how Stuttguart looked like when I arrived for duty in Germany in 1959. A number of folks have spoken about how dogs and cats can turn wild after a short time. There were waves of people stealing from the stores in Los Angeles during the riots and human nature has not changed. Mob mentality will turn a bunch of people into a killing and robing bunch of people in a very short time. This country is operating on a very thin supply line. This government is broke and getting loans anywhere it can (China) and some day, I hope it never comes, either the government will just print paper when no one will loan us any more money or it will have to stop or severly reduce the massive welfare programs. THEN the SHIT will hit the fan. Those same mobs from the cities with take what they want. Why do you think the government is buying millions of rounds of ammunition, buying armord cars for FEMA, establishing training camps for large numbers of FEMA cadets? There is no doubt that this administration is planning for massive civil unrest. And now buying thousands of M4 rifles for "self proteciton" for those FEMA employees? And would like to take ours away. I believe this government knows that things could/may/will go over the cliff in the near future. I'm just an old guy and this is my five cents. JesseB
I couldn't agree more with what BCW1284/Gunny Sargeant said below. Being 53 years old and living thru many of the "SHTF scenarios" which were not treally SHTF anyway, it comes down to being ready as Gunny stated. My family and I have "bugout" packs for short term situations but, who really wants to outlive civilization after some sort of life ending planetary scale disaster?
In a SHTF incident, remember...You really only own what you can carry under both arms in a dead sprint.
The collpase of the soviet union( I got to see APC's rolling down Funzenskaya Naberejanay in Moscow).
The 2nd and more bloody attempt to overthrow the provisional goverment
The 2nd and more bloody attempt to overthrow the provisional goverment
Good logic for you young fit f'ers. My knees can't carry my fat ass much less gear. Guess I'll just have to keep my mags full and my head down. Never was much one for running from a fight anyway.
Forget the world ending, I prep in case I lose my job. Job loss will probably affect everyone at some point.
How did I miss this thread until now?
Right around Halloween time when I was 8-years old, my Mon and Dad started acting strangely. I was enlisted to carry gallon jugs of water into our dirt-floored cellar while my Dad moved some furniture. My Mom was crying and I didn’t understand what all the fuss was about. My folks were too busy to explain. That evening I noticed our neighbors digging a large hole in their backyard under the lights. I wandered over and asked what was going on. There was panic in their voices when they told me that World War III was about to start so everybody better get ready.
I was left with an impression that lasted a lifetime; be ready so you don’t have to get ready.
Being ready to ride out the usual stuff like blizzards, floods, temporary power outages and periods of localized civil unrest isn’t difficult or even very expensive; it’s much harder to be prepared for the “low-frequency/high-consequence events" that they make movies about.
Some scenarios simply are not survivable so I don’t worry about those “extinction events”.
We (the American people) are going to experience a “low-frequency/high-consequence event” eventually and there’s always the prospect of a “Black Swan” event.
Normalcy bias causes most people to underestimate both the possibility of a disaster and its possible effects. So those folks don’t prepare at all and in an effort to quell their cognitive dissonance will ridicule those who do prepare. (Noah’s neighbors thought he was “wack”.)
I’ve long since given up any effort to preach to those that don’t get it.
As Greg Langelius wrote earlier, and more eloquently I might add; we’re in for a culling.
Right around Halloween time when I was 8-years old, my Mon and Dad started acting strangely. I was enlisted to carry gallon jugs of water into our dirt-floored cellar while my Dad moved some furniture. My Mom was crying and I didn’t understand what all the fuss was about. My folks were too busy to explain. That evening I noticed our neighbors digging a large hole in their backyard under the lights. I wandered over and asked what was going on. There was panic in their voices when they told me that World War III was about to start so everybody better get ready.
I was left with an impression that lasted a lifetime; be ready so you don’t have to get ready.
Being ready to ride out the usual stuff like blizzards, floods, temporary power outages and periods of localized civil unrest isn’t difficult or even very expensive; it’s much harder to be prepared for the “low-frequency/high-consequence events" that they make movies about.
Some scenarios simply are not survivable so I don’t worry about those “extinction events”.
We (the American people) are going to experience a “low-frequency/high-consequence event” eventually and there’s always the prospect of a “Black Swan” event.
Normalcy bias causes most people to underestimate both the possibility of a disaster and its possible effects. So those folks don’t prepare at all and in an effort to quell their cognitive dissonance will ridicule those who do prepare. (Noah’s neighbors thought he was “wack”.)
I’ve long since given up any effort to preach to those that don’t get it.
As Greg Langelius wrote earlier, and more eloquently I might add; we’re in for a culling.
I have one.
I was leading a 9 man patrol through Sadar City in the summer of 07 at about 0200 hours one morning. After living purely on local food and Boom Boom Taka Booms's for two weeks straight, my stomach was prone to accidental discharges. Well, I felt my guts safety flick to fire and I knew it was game on. I called up to my squad leader, Pat, and gave him a SITREP. He tells me to drop em and go while they pull security. Negative. Any of you who have trampled that turf know that it's not a place to get caught with your pants down.
"what do you suggest?" he asks. I tell him they should breech a door and clear one of the abandoned buildings so I can use a real crapper. So we do. The squad stacks on a locked metal door and blows that mother in with a yuelly knot. Once we file in, we realize that there are 6 adults, all fighting age males in the room, with weapons scattered about. The terp demanded to know where the head is located, and one of the guys points to a hole in the floor of the middle of the room they were in.
Well, the boys had everyone at gunpoint so I waddled to the hole, threw down my trousers and completely bracket the hole in with diarrhea. Very little made it into the intended target. When I was done, I realized I had zero mountain money with me. So I'm squatting over the puddle screaming for someone to get me some paper. Fortunately one guy had a pack of wet wipes, and I used them all.
We PUC'd the residents and called for qrf to pick them up. Moral to the story, dont be so retarded that you leave your moon floss in your ruck. I never go anywhere without a BOB and a roll of TP.
I was leading a 9 man patrol through Sadar City in the summer of 07 at about 0200 hours one morning. After living purely on local food and Boom Boom Taka Booms's for two weeks straight, my stomach was prone to accidental discharges. Well, I felt my guts safety flick to fire and I knew it was game on. I called up to my squad leader, Pat, and gave him a SITREP. He tells me to drop em and go while they pull security. Negative. Any of you who have trampled that turf know that it's not a place to get caught with your pants down.
"what do you suggest?" he asks. I tell him they should breech a door and clear one of the abandoned buildings so I can use a real crapper. So we do. The squad stacks on a locked metal door and blows that mother in with a yuelly knot. Once we file in, we realize that there are 6 adults, all fighting age males in the room, with weapons scattered about. The terp demanded to know where the head is located, and one of the guys points to a hole in the floor of the middle of the room they were in.
Well, the boys had everyone at gunpoint so I waddled to the hole, threw down my trousers and completely bracket the hole in with diarrhea. Very little made it into the intended target. When I was done, I realized I had zero mountain money with me. So I'm squatting over the puddle screaming for someone to get me some paper. Fortunately one guy had a pack of wet wipes, and I used them all.
We PUC'd the residents and called for qrf to pick them up. Moral to the story, dont be so retarded that you leave your moon floss in your ruck. I never go anywhere without a BOB and a roll of TP.
Interesting thought. The grid goes down where i live in Oregon several times a month, when we get heavy snows, or a decent storm. Two years ago, the entire west side of the valley was without power for two weeks straight in severe weather. Hardly anyone noticed. We go on with life. Kerosene lamps, generators, wood stoves. No biggy. Depends on where you live.
When I was a boy, just before I joined the Army, I was in Watts, CA, for the original "Watts Riot" (sometimes known as the "Summer of Cultural Blooming"). I determined I would NEVER be in that type of situation again. Then I caught the middle of the Tet Offensive. I determined NEVER to be in that type of situation again.
So far so good.
Any number of things could result in a prolonged “grid-down” scenario; Electro Magnetic Pulse (EMP) attack, Solar Mass Ejection (SME), cascading infrastructure failure, Black Swan, etc. A geographically widespread, prolonged “grid-down” scenario would result in a catastrophe of biblical proportions.
With the emergency extending over a large geographical area it would exceed the capacity of our nation to meaningfully intervene and people would be left to their own devices. Backup generation capacity, if it was operational would be exhausted within days.
Imagine Manhattan, with a population density of over 47,000 people per square mile without electricity for a period of 6-months or longer.
The immediate inconvenience would be dealt with in the usual manor; lighting candles and dining on free meals of what is considered perishable and otherwise enjoying the “blackout”.
As hours stretch into days and days into weeks the novelty would soon wear off.
Without elevators residents would be forced to walk up multiple flights to reach their apartments. Death due to heart attacks and strokes would skyrocket.
Almost immediately the rate of residential fires would rise dramatically due to the misuse of candles for illumination.
Deaths due to carbon monoxide poisoning would rise exponentially due to the use of charcoal and propane in enclosed spaces for cooking and heating.
Within days potable water would no longer be available anywhere in the city due to the lack of pumping and treatment capacity. Sickness and death due to drinking contaminated water would rise to near epidemic proportions.
Without water, toilets would no longer flush. Without electricity to run the pumps sewers would back up contributing to the health emergency.
Surface transportation would be at “grid-lock” due to no working traffic lights. This would cripple resupply efforts and emergency services in the form of ambulance/fire/police would be delayed or prevented from responding. Trash removal would cease resulting in the accumulation of trash which would further exacerbate the city wide public health emergency. Within days the subway tunnels would begin to fill with water without electric pumps running resulting in irreparable damage to the system and the collection of stagnant waste water throughout the city.
Available food supplies would be exhausted in a matter of days and in desperation spoiled food taken from failed refrigeration units would be eaten resulting in thousands of cases of food poisoning.
The health care system would be overloaded immediately and would fail totally within days.
Almost immediately the criminal element would recognize this blackout to be a terrific opportunity and would go into a “feeding frenzy” of criminal activity.
Pharmacies, destroyed by looters or shuttered for security, would be unable to fill prescriptions and thousands of people dependent upon a regular supply of drugs would die or go crazy without their pharmaceutical support.
After 6-months without electricity even Snake Plissken wouldn’t recognize the place.
With the emergency extending over a large geographical area it would exceed the capacity of our nation to meaningfully intervene and people would be left to their own devices. Backup generation capacity, if it was operational would be exhausted within days.
Imagine Manhattan, with a population density of over 47,000 people per square mile without electricity for a period of 6-months or longer.
The immediate inconvenience would be dealt with in the usual manor; lighting candles and dining on free meals of what is considered perishable and otherwise enjoying the “blackout”.
As hours stretch into days and days into weeks the novelty would soon wear off.
Without elevators residents would be forced to walk up multiple flights to reach their apartments. Death due to heart attacks and strokes would skyrocket.
Almost immediately the rate of residential fires would rise dramatically due to the misuse of candles for illumination.
Deaths due to carbon monoxide poisoning would rise exponentially due to the use of charcoal and propane in enclosed spaces for cooking and heating.
Within days potable water would no longer be available anywhere in the city due to the lack of pumping and treatment capacity. Sickness and death due to drinking contaminated water would rise to near epidemic proportions.
Without water, toilets would no longer flush. Without electricity to run the pumps sewers would back up contributing to the health emergency.
Surface transportation would be at “grid-lock” due to no working traffic lights. This would cripple resupply efforts and emergency services in the form of ambulance/fire/police would be delayed or prevented from responding. Trash removal would cease resulting in the accumulation of trash which would further exacerbate the city wide public health emergency. Within days the subway tunnels would begin to fill with water without electric pumps running resulting in irreparable damage to the system and the collection of stagnant waste water throughout the city.
Available food supplies would be exhausted in a matter of days and in desperation spoiled food taken from failed refrigeration units would be eaten resulting in thousands of cases of food poisoning.
The health care system would be overloaded immediately and would fail totally within days.
Almost immediately the criminal element would recognize this blackout to be a terrific opportunity and would go into a “feeding frenzy” of criminal activity.
Pharmacies, destroyed by looters or shuttered for security, would be unable to fill prescriptions and thousands of people dependent upon a regular supply of drugs would die or go crazy without their pharmaceutical support.
After 6-months without electricity even Snake Plissken wouldn’t recognize the place.
