Gunsmithing How to tig weld a bolt handle?

[usmc7980]

So in doing some projects at work and some bolt knob conversions with the Tac Ops kit and I welding the stud to the handle I've become fairly comfortable with tig welding, and now I'm wondering what is involved in tig welding the handle onto the bolt body? Prep work, where to weld and any other useful info would be great. I'm not going to steal anybodies business it will be just for me. Thanks

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

i always thought the stem was soldered onto the bolt body with a higher nickle content solder....

 

[usmc7980]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

Well yes sir, it is soldered, but I want to weld, so I knock the handle off and now what? I melt the solder off, and go to town on it? What spots do I weld under the handle or along the back of the bolt where the shroud screws down or all the way around the handle and then smooth it back down?

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

It helps to put a small chamfer on the bolt handle, just on the back of the bolt handle where it will contact the rear of the bolt. You should need weld their and under the bottom of the handle.

 

[usmc7980]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

so nothing on the front side where it cams against the action, right

 

[chpprguy]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

You have a heat sink? heat paste?

 

[usmc7980]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

I've made a heatsink that slides inside the bolt body and one that sleves around and have plenty of paste at work. All of the equipment I use now is at my shop so I have nothing at the house yet

 

[Mgordon]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

I have removed and soldered a few handles back on. I would heat it up and be very careful not to bend the bolt handle section that contours the bolt body. Then once its off, you can scrape or sand off the old solder. If your going to be removing the handle, you will have to retime it to the bolt body. I have a few ideas about the way that should go, but that is about it.

 

[300sniper]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

i'd like to know what filler (if any) is used for this.

 

[chpprguy]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

I would guess you could scribe/mark the handle if it isn't broken off yet......

Anyone know the specs on what the bolt is made of?

 

[300sniper]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

i am almost positive i read that they (non stainless bodies) are 4140. i don't know if the handle would be the same or not.

 

[Mgordon]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

I actually made a fixture to relocate and reinstall the bolt handle. First you determine how many thousands the bolt handle needs to move forward. Then you mount the bolt in the fixture and rotate the bolt clockwise until the bolt handle bottoms out on the machine screw head.

Then you get your feeler gauge and place the shim thickness that you need to get the proper placement. You put the shim between the back end of the fixture where the front of the bolt handle goes and sandwich the shim there.

Then you clamp the bolt body in the fixture which also acts like a heat sink. You heat it up, and gently pull off the bolt handle. You clean it and prep it for soldering. You tin over one or both surfaces. Since you installed the bolt and rotated it clockwise until the bolt handle bottomed out on the machine screw, you know that you just need to reinstall the bolt handle so its bottoming on the machine screw in order to maintain the same handle timing. Because you had the shim between the front of the bolt handle and the back of the fixture, you remove the shim for resoldering and slide the bolt handle forward. This will fix your extraction caming angle to give you more positive extraction camming surface contact. Now, you clamp the handle in the fixture and heat it up and resolder it back on.

I hope this is correct and I did not confuse the heck out of everybody...haha

 

[chpprguy]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

Off the top of my head, an ER80S wire would be most appropriate,
but a ER70S wire should work great. (and is more common)
70S-2, 70S-6, etc....
ER309 would work in a pinch

Nice fixture BTW !

Andy

 

[Mgordon]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

Its sand blasted and blued now....lol

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

How did you locate the bolt handle. You have something on the backside of that fixture too keep the lugs straight up and down?

 

[Dans40X]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

Harmonics removes the handle from the bolt body.

If you are heating silver braze with out flux to remove the handle-
Throw the bolt & handle in the scrap bin as it is AFU.

Prep bolt body by removing silver.
Prep handle by removing silver,check finger strap that wraps around body to confirm straightness/radius.
Confirm drafted/radius/angled extraction cam angles depending on handle/action.
Locate handle on bolt body,confirm timing.

Set up power source-
DC Straight Polarity,Hi Freq-Start,Pulse if available.
UHP Argon-25Cft purge regulator
UHP Argon-20Cft torch flowmeter

Fusion Tac TIG weld handle to bolt body.
Insert purge device-connect hose.
Fillet weld finger strap.
Fillet weld under handle.
Remove purge device.
Fusion weld aft end of body/handle to blend tac welds.

Done
If you are raising carbon in the parent or filler- your process is seriously lacking.

Adornments(screws) not required to hold handle to bolt body.

10's of thousands of satisfied customers/custom builders over the past 2 decades.

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

Its easy to do if you can tig. I cant remember what filler we use, but it is very small. Stainless filler works great too. Nice itty bitty perfect weld beads.

I set the bolt up in the action where it needs to be then tac it in place. I can then work the bolt making sure everything is timed properly before finish welding. I have a fixture as well, but every action is a bit different and i have found that just using the action as a fixture works best.

If you do it correctly you don't need a heat sinc, just go slow and dont poor it on. Its a bolt handle, not a D8 blade and its definitely not rocket science. We dont weld across the back or front, just under the handle and the end, but make sure and wrap around the corners. Make sure and grind a fillet where you want your weld bead.

 

[Dans40X]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

Filler-
Match filler to parent when possable.
Remove copper coating from .024" 4130 MIG wire for a blued color match.
Heat Sink- Required
Purge-Prevents atmosphere getting at back side of weld (heat effected zone-critical area)
Get on it-Get Off of it!!!!

Manual Micro Tig-Minature Fillets/Fusions.

 

[Mgordon]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

"How did you locate the bolt handle. You have something on the backside of that fixture too keep the lugs straight up and down?"

When the handle is still attached to the bolt I rotate the whole bolt clockwise so the handle bottoms on the machine screw. Then I clamp the whole bolt down in the fixture and that prevents the bolt body from moving during the whole process.

I dont even mess with this stuff anymore. For 45 bucks, I just send it to Dan and let him work his magic. That way I know the bolt handle gets on correctly and wont ever come off!

 

[usmc7980]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

Thanks everybody that's what I was looking for. I'm going to try it out on an old LA bolt I have sitting on a shelf

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: US Handgunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"How did you locate the bolt handle. You have something on the backside of that fixture too keep the lugs straight up and down?"

When the handle is still attached to the bolt I rotate the whole bolt clockwise so the handle bottoms on the machine screw. Then I clamp the whole bolt down in the fixture and that prevents the bolt body from moving during the whole process.

I dont even mess with this stuff anymore. For 45 bucks, I just send it to Dan and let him work his magic. That way I know the bolt handle gets on correctly and wont ever come off! </div></div>

I understand but you dont know if its clocked right unless you use the action to do it. That was my only point.

 

[usmc7980]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

I don't mind sending stuff off, that I'm not comfortable doing, but I've always been a work with my hands type of guy and love learning new things. I figure if I'm going to build my own rifles I might as well learn as many little tricks as I can

 

[300sniper]

Re: tig welding a bolt handle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC7980</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't mind sending stuff off, that I'm not comfortable doing, but I've always been a work with my hands type of guy and love learning new things. I figure if I'm going to build my own rifles I might as well learn as many little tricks as I can </div></div>

that is where i am at. i have a tig welder and i can tig weld but i am far from a weldor. personally, i'd rather spend the money on tooling and learn to do it my self even if it would be much cheaper to send it out.

also, sending a bolt without the action may be a crap shoot as far as getting the handle located properly. i bought a bolt with attached handle for my build and there is no cam what so ever. the handle is located good for and aft but it is not clocked correctly for my action.

 

[Clark]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

Link to Jack Belk's pictures of TIG welding on a bolt

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

There is no need to use stainless filler unless you are doing a stainless bolt or handle. I agree with chpprguy. My pick would be 1/16" or smaller filler wire in 70S-2 but 80S-2 will probably work perfectly as well. Don't go crazy on the heat or you will crystalize the inside of the bolt, remember : you could lightly tig the bolt and use it to tow your truck down the road. Tig has massive penetration per amp imput. Use 1/16" 2% thoriated tungsten, a nice sharped tip with a miniscule land on it and VERY low / gentle argon coverage on it and make sure you have no air leaks on your tig torch / equipment... If you have a leak it will suck air and cause massive porosity in your weld and you will scream in agony. Have fun.........SmokeRolls

 

[chpprguy]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheSmokeRolls</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no need to use stainless filler unless you are doing a stainless bolt or handle. </div></div>

Smoke,
I only referred to 309 because it is similar to RN-82 in the sense that it's forgiving of dissimilar or unknown base material as it has a lot of alloys in it... handy when you're not "sure" what the base material is made of...
Andy

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

You are right chpprguy. I'm not disagreeing with you just stating my opinion on using stainless fillers when you don't need to. I'm not a big fan of using stainless filler wire when it is not needed. I have seen some failures when our welders in 26A welded on subs components and piping systems when welding CFE to CFE and using 309 tig filler. It doesn't always happen that way, sometimes it will perform just fine but since I have noticed cracking in certain situations, I have been soured in the thought of using stainless fillers when it is not a question on the composition of both base materials. When you aren't sure then it's time to use the multi-compatable fillers. Just my opinion and observation. Also when stick / arc /SMAW welding I have noticed drastic failures by others as well as me when using 309 stick rods and welding on many different steel to steel ( CFE-CFE) jobs. I have not seen the same failures when 312 is used when welding CFE-CFE or CFE to SS. All the books say that 309 is compatable with CFE to CFE and CFE to SS but it does show that 312 is more compatable. Just my observation and personal experience......Not trying to ruffle feathers.It's all good..SmokeRolls

 

[chpprguy]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheSmokeRolls</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have seen some failures when our welders in 26A welded on subs components and piping systems when welding CFE to CFE and using 309 tig filler. </div></div>

You sound like a 4956 welder ?????
if so, we are one and the same.....

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

I havn't heard or thought about that classification in many moons...I had to think about what I actually was. I've been out for a good while, I think 11 + years. I've continued with welding since I left the navy.I was high pressure non-nuclear.. 4955. mostly 26A at most SIMA's, and sub and destroyer tenders and I was on a fast frigate as well. I bet you know what key-holing and cannopies are.. Does your pee glow in the dark?.... Your name isnt Charles is it?.. You kinda remind me of a good friend I had at Subase Pearl.....He was a harley rider and had tattoes and would get a wicked tan (as in skin pealing of his body)by welding without a shirt for short periods of time..He was funny as hell and had a great personality.. We would ride motorcycles together, he had a harley and I had a rice rocket.....The chicks always flocked to his harley, even though I was better looking.( Laugh !!) It was like I was invisible on my rice burner. It crushed my ego....I was never the same after that....Laugh !! Just kidding..SmokeRolls

 

[chpprguy]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

I got lucky and got to get all the schools...
I did two tenders and then ran the 26 shop at SIMA Point Loma...
My name's Andy, I've got sleeve's and some chest work...
but I ride a harley crotch rocket (Buell XB12R) Does that count?

I did just shy of ten, and been out just over four...
I do the same work now, but I have cooler toys to play with now...
(Electron beam,Laser,and a GMAW Robot welder)

I don't miss canpoies and never ending weld quals....

You ever get out this way I'll buy ya some beers and we can tell some lies.....

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

Ten years and seven months active been out for eleven. Which tenders did you do time on? I joined in 87 out in fall of 98. I was Subase pearl HI, Rathburn FF1057, Uss Prarie AD-15, USS Simon Lake AS-33 and Weapons Station Earl SIMA in NJ. After I got out I welded at Link-Belt building up to 600 ton (lifting capacity.)lattice boom cranes. Welded stainless products for hobart. Started welding company and built heavy steel buildings, welded gas piping for new and old buildings and steam systems, repaired aluminum boats and out drives for boat manufacturers and dealerships, did waranty weld repairs for Honda on aluminum streetbikes......And then I got tired of welding or I got "burnt out"........Go figure......I thought I would go into bikini modeling but they said I was too fat, too ugly and looked hideous in a thong.....I was crushed........hahaha..I'll take a beer anytime............SmokeRolls

 

[chpprguy]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

First boat was the Simon Lake... in LaMadellana (sp?) Italy...
I set the shop on fire actually...

(bulkhead lagging)
Then the Mckee AS-41....
then too long at SSMD (SIMA Submarine Maintenance Division Point Loma)
then the Valley Forge...CG-50
1994-2004 all in all
Came to the national lab here in Los Alamos...
I get to learn the "why" now... do a series of welds, then cut them up for metallography and analysis....
I was gettin tired of burning rod, but since I get to do different things and learn more of the "why", I find I love it again...
I am partial to electron beam welding now.... welded .004" to .004" AL a couple days ago (1100 series) leak tight...
this automated and semi-automated stuff makes me realize just how crappy a hand welder I am...

 

[FMJBT]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

I watched him set the shop on fire. That was before LOL had been invented yet. If it had, I would have.

Watched him set the all steel target table on fire aboard the Mckee too. For comedic impact, that one was actually much better....

 

[chpprguy]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FMJBT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I watched him set the shop on fire. That was before LOL had been invented yet. If it had, I would have.

Watched him set the all steel target table on fire aboard the Mckee too. For comedic impact, that one was actually much better....

</div></div>

Ah yes.... another of my dumbass moments......

 

[FMJBT]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chpprguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FMJBT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I watched him set the shop on fire. That was before LOL had been invented yet. If it had, I would have.

Watched him set the all steel target table on fire aboard the Mckee too. For comedic impact, that one was actually much better....

</div></div>

Ah yes.... another of my dumbass moments...... </div></div>

The two of us trying to put that out must have looked like a couple clones of Mr. Bean attempting to put out an oil well fire.... LOL.

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

chpprguy: Dude. I was assigned to the Simon lake when it was in Norfolk and I rode it over to relieve the Orion in Lamadelena ( I don't even know if I spelled it right , nor do I care.) I spent two years on board her while in Italy. Where you there when GreenPeace showed up and the Italian Carabinari ( Police) beat the hell out of the greenpeace guy with a 20 foot boat hook? That was classic... I'm trying to remember the fire.....All I can remember is smoke.....Laugh.. ! Pun intended.. What is your full name? I might remember you although, I have a hard time with names.....I'm very good with faces though......SmokeRolls

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

Hey...I remember a fire from one of our welders on the Simon Lake that was very near the kitchen / galley or the offices for the kitchen.... It wasn't very bad but, it caused alot of the wrong kind of attention from the brass. Was that you.? SmokeRolls

 

[chpprguy]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

pm sent

 

[chpprguy]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

Nah,
I actually set the weld shop on fire, the one accross from the little office on the main deck

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: How to tig weld a bolt handle?

I just don't remember that.. I've seen too many fires in too many locations... Mine always was when using acetone..or welding on hydolic systems. Cosmoline will burn pretty good if you give it enough heat....hehhehehehe !!!! Magnezium is pretty cool while on fire.....SmokeRolls