How were '03 and Garand barrels rifled?

[sandwarrior]

@Frank Green how about the SCAR 20? Thoughts on it? Looks like a nice rifle..
@sandwarrior Ive heard conflicting views one way or the other on this - do you know if Sako ever officially made any Mausers?

Model 61 or 461 I believe.

 

[sandwarrior]

Yes the trade off in weight is recoil does go up.

I'm talking a 6.5CM type round or even a 308win. A 1# or a tad more in weight reduction should be more than acceptable.

Now if I was shooting a 338 Lapua? That could be a different story. Depending on what the weight of the gun is to begin with I might not want to give up any weight. That being said....I've had a 338 Lapua in a 13/14# pound gun and it didn't bother me a ton to put 40-50 rounds thru it off the bench during testing (had a good muzzle brake/suppressor attachment on it). I was tired after the sessions but didn't feel totally beat up. Would I want to shoot it with out the brake on the barrel? Nope! LOL!

And, with recoil abatement, i.e. a muzzle brake, you can shoot them all day and your shoulder isn't toast. Not allowed in F-class though.

 

[RTH1800]

Phil,

The guys in USMC sniper school who were issued the original M40’s put shower shoes or Dr. Schul’s foot pads under their tropical fatigues for padding and hoped to not get caught.

 

[Frank Green]

@Frank Green how about the SCAR 20? Thoughts on it? Looks like a nice rifle..
@sandwarrior Ive heard conflicting views one way or the other on this - do you know if Sako ever officially made any Mausers?

Can't tell you anything about the SCAR20 personally. Sorry!

To my knowledge I don't know of Mauser making any Sako's. Could be wrong.

SW, As far as I know the L461's are all made by Sako.

 

[sandwarrior]

Can't tell you anything about the SCAR20 personally. Sorry!

To my knowledge I don't know of Mauser making any Sako's. Could be wrong.

SW, As far as I know the L461's are all made by Sako.

Correct. Maybe I misunderstood the question, but I thought he meant Sako making a Mauser action. That was purely for civilian use, not military. I do not know if Sako ever made Mauser actioned rifles for military use.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Correct I was wondering if Sako ever made a claw extractor Mauser type CRF action, not the Sako extractor action they usually use

 

[__JR__]

Yes. That's why we won't straighten a barrel. If the barrel bows (our terminology) during the contouring process that's a pretty clear sign it has stress in the blank. The blank will get scrapped at that point. It never makes it to reaming/rifling etc...and the customer never sees it. it doesn't happen a lot.

I'm trying to think of a better way to explain it so bear with me.

Let's assume that all of the other variables that can come into play on a rifle (lets just talk bolt action rifles) are out of the equation. As you shoot the gun and the barrel heats up and you notice the shots walk/string on the target. Don't adjust the sights. Let the gun cool and then resume shooting. If it repeats this is what I call a barrel that has residual stress in the blank. Straightened or not. If you straighten the barrel your inducing more stress into the barrel blank. The steel is going to have a memory. As it heats up it will wander on you and when it cools because it has a memory it goes back to where it started.

Also I will say this.....we've worked with material that during turning as one example we noticed a lot of them bowing (call it bending). We get a hold of the steel mill supplier etc...and bring up the issues we are seeing. Then come to find out (they acknowledged that they skipped a stress relieving operation after straighten the bars during the manufacturing process. Sent the whole lot back. Also one mill that we use to buy our material from (back during when OBAMA was our President) skipped a heat treating/stress relieving process. The steel drilled fine, turned fine, reamed fine etc...all the way up to rifling. Was just killing our rifling tools. We only shipped 14 barrels out of that lot of material. Went to one customer and told him to let me know how they shot etc...and they all shot fine. No issues etc...but we literally wrecked one rifling tool per barrel. Had the senior sales guy from the mill and the mills metallurgist come to the shop for a meeting. They flat out told us they skipped a process. Why...because Obama forgave the debt to the auto industry (GM and Chrysler) and the mill was owed millions of $. They had to cut the work force overnight and not to mention cut other corners. The mill was suppose to work with us on future shipments of steel at a reduced cost to offset the cost we lost in labor. We returned the whole lot of steel. Everything from the raw uncut bars, to cut bars to drilled blanks, contoured blanks, reamed blanks etc...we had lost $55k in labor in one month because of it! Don't even go there and ask me how much help we got back from the mill. You will make me mad! The new sales guy that took over told me (yes I have copies of the email!!!) and was told as far as they are concerned they are the only game in town and we have to buy from them and they shouldn't have taken the material back etc...ok if that's your attitude I will find someone else to work with. That's a true story!

From what I know and have learned that straightening a solid bar of steel effects the outer layers more than the inner layers of the steel. If this is true....now imagine taking a barrel that has already been rifled etc...and straighten the barrel. With the hole in the barrel/piece of steel now....is the effect greater on the barrel? I'll say yes. All of the support is gone.

So you all know because of the gov't bail out of GM and Chrysler we are all co owners of these two places right? So you can thank the previous President for that! A lot of people lost jobs because of that and most don't remember or even know of this happening.

That's why we work directly with the mills per say and not warehouses. I need to know what we are getting etc...and if we have a problem that I make a phone call to one person and the buck doesn't get passed from this person to that person.

Later, Frank

Frank, it's the cold work that gits the stresses into the material. It's kind of like muscle memory, work a steel alloy around when it's cold and it's still trying to get where it thought it was in the beginning. So how I ALWAYS order is make sure you stress relieve that f'in steel bar after straighten. Or I peel as last process, which is a stress relief op. But that's not always the cure, when you see them hauling bundles of steel on forklifts with forks to narrow and the bundle is flapping like an albatross, to get it to the truck to get to me. You and I on same page, deal with mill guys first.

Hoop stress and longitudinal stress.

Thanks

 

[sandwarrior]

Frank, it's the cold work that gits the stresses into the material. It's kind of like muscle memory, work a steel alloy around when it's cold and it's still trying to get where it thought it was in the beginning. So how I ALWAYS order is make sure you stress relieve that f'in steel bar after straighten. Or I peel as last process, which is a stress relief op. But that's not always the cure, when you see them hauling bundles of steel on forklifts with forks to narrow and the bundle is flapping like an albatross, to get it to the truck to get to me. You and I on same page, deal with mill guys first.

Hoop stress and longitudinal stress.

Thanks

Yes, in your position, I might be freaking out watching some bonehead, "Get the load on the truck faster". I watched some guy doing that with a 747 engine valued at $10m used. They are heavy and it would tip the forklift down if you stopped too fast. "So, don't get going fast!!" we'd say. It got on the truck okay, but man....

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Just curious, do any of yall know how the Swiss K31 barrels were rifled? A member on gunboards apparently hardness tested a K31 barrel and it came out at 48 RC! Thats ridiculously hard for a barrel, and Id have to imagine that hardness is only at the surface?
Anyway, Id have to imagine they were hammer forged to acheive a hardness level that high? But according to Geoff Kolbe, the 1st CHF machines didnt come about until '39..?
So assuming the K31 barrels are cut rifled, how'd they achieve hardness that high without ruining tooling?

PS: the K31 barrel hardness of 48 RC was secondhand info... so not sure how accurate. But fwiw, Swede Mauser steel is also supposed to be some incredible quality stuff, with some claiming extremely high hardness levels like they do with Swiss K31's.. Yet,. A member there had a piece of M96 barrel steel x-rayed, and it was said to be most similar to O6 or E52100 tool steel, with a hardness of 28.5 RC. Nothing really that extraordinary at all(by today's standards). Though most definitely among the best of the best in it's day..

 

[__JR__]

Just curious, do any of yall know how the Swiss K31 barrels were rifled? A member on gunboards apparently hardness tested a K31 barrel and it came out at 48 RC! Thats ridiculously hard for a barrel, and Id have to imagine that hardness is only at the surface?
Anyway, Id have to imagine they were hammer forged to acheive a hardness level that high? But according to Geoff Kolbe, the 1st CHF machines didnt come about until '39..?
So assuming the K31 barrels are cut rifled, how'd they achieve hardness that high without ruining tooling?

PS: the K31 barrel hardness of 48 RC was secondhand info... so not sure how accurate. But fwiw, Swede Mauser steel is also supposed to be some incredible quality stuff, with some claiming extremely high hardness levels like they do with Swiss K31's.. Yet,. A member there had a piece of M96 barrel steel x-rayed, and it was said to be most similar to O6 or E52100 tool steel, with a hardness of 28.5 RC. Nothing really that extraordinary at all(by today's standards). Though most definitely among the best of the best in it's day..

You wouldn't be cold hammer forging to achieve Rc48. Probably checked barrel hardness on outside, and probably not accurate measurement. Only way to hit 48 would be a heat treatment after or a coating, and no one would want a 48Rc steel substrate to kaboom anyway. No longer tough. Now brittle.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

You wouldn't be cold hammer forging to achieve Rc48. Probably checked barrel hardness on outside, and probably not accurate measurement. Only way to hit 48 would be a heat treatment after or a coating, and no one would want a 48Rc steel substrate to kaboom anyway. No longer tough. Now brittle.

I actually included that question in my post but erased cause I thought it might be a dumb question..
So it is possible to heat treat a barrel after rifling without changing dimensions?

Also, would it become detrimental to barrel life once you reach a certain hardness? Since, as I understand it, one of the factors of a barrel’s life is the bore work-hardening over time and forming those little cracks/dry lake bed effect until a chunk breaks off and accuracy goes goodbye?

 

[__JR__]

I actually included that question in my post but erased cause I thought it might be a dumb question..
So it is possible to heat treat a barrel after rifling without changing dimensions?

Also, would it become detrimental to barrel life once you reach a certain hardness? Since, as I understand it, one of the factors of a barrel’s life is the bore work-hardening over time and forming those little cracks/dry lake bed effect until a chunk breaks off and accuracy goes goodbye?

Material based, it's metallurgy dude. Can't heat treat traditional barrel materials in traditional contours or OD's to meet a 48Rc without it going kaboom on both ends. So if you get too hard, depending on impact strength your barrel life could be 1 or less than 1. There are other alloys in the industry that might be less intimidated. But you still have to machine it. Don't get nothing for free. Nitriding is way to 'harden' a material by giving it a case depth of 'hard' material surrounded by tough outside softer skin. For best results typically need to use a steel alloy with ingredients that favor the nitriding, such as aluminum.

Less a work hardening factor for throat erosion, well perhaps could say it's part of the puzzle rather than the defining factor. It's more like the pregnant lady giving birth, and what remains are the stretch marks. What we are striving for is the proverbial doctor adding a stitch or two. 65kpsi and some heat thru thin wall tube, and some unburnt powder and powder fillers to sandblast a bit, bit o' primer junk to get into the pores. I can set a metronome to time fire a bolt gun for 800 rounds and make that throat look a lot worse than a machine gun barrel after 10k rounds.

Later

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Material based, it's metallurgy dude. Can't heat treat traditional barrel materials in traditional contours or OD's to meet a 48Rc without it going kaboom on both ends. So if you get too hard, depending on impact strength your barrel life could be 1 or less than 1. There are other alloys in the industry that might be less intimidated. But you still have to machine it. Don't get nothing for free. Nitriding is way to 'harden' a material by giving it a case depth of 'hard' material surrounded by tough outside softer skin. For best results typically need to use a steel alloy with ingredients that favor the nitriding, such as aluminum.

Less a work hardening factor for throat erosion, well perhaps could say it's part of the puzzle rather than the defining factor. It's more like the pregnant lady giving birth, and what remains are the stretch marks. What we are striving for is the proverbial doctor adding a stitch or two. 65kpsi and some heat thru thin wall tube, and some unburnt powder and powder fillers to sandblast a bit, bit o' primer junk to get into the pores. I can set a metronome to time fire a bolt gun for 800 rounds and make that throat look a lot worse than a machine gun barrel after 10k rounds.

Later

Did nitriding exist pre-WW2? I’m starting to lean toward the guy claiming 48 RC for K31 barrels was just talking out his rear end. Certainly the Swiss and Swede rifles used real high quality steel, apparently even the Germans were supposedly jealous of the steel that the Swedes had access to. But when it was actually tested, it was within a typical barrel’s hardness range, 28.5. And IIRC, Larry Racine at least used to rebarrel K31’s by chopping off and threading the barrel stub. Don’t recall him mentioning having to do anything special in working with the Swiss barrel steel..

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Material based, it's metallurgy dude. Can't heat treat traditional barrel materials in traditional contours or OD's to meet a 48Rc without it going kaboom on both ends. So if you get too hard, depending on impact strength your barrel life could be 1 or less than 1. There are other alloys in the industry that might be less intimidated. But you still have to machine it. Don't get nothing for free. Nitriding is way to 'harden' a material by giving it a case depth of 'hard' material surrounded by tough outside softer skin. For best results typically need to use a steel alloy with ingredients that favor the nitriding, such as aluminum.

Less a work hardening factor for throat erosion, well perhaps could say it's part of the puzzle rather than the defining factor. It's more like the pregnant lady giving birth, and what remains are the stretch marks. What we are striving for is the proverbial doctor adding a stitch or two. 65kpsi and some heat thru thin wall tube, and some unburnt powder and powder fillers to sandblast a bit, bit o' primer junk to get into the pores. I can set a metronome to time fire a bolt gun for 800 rounds and make that throat look a lot worse than a machine gun barrel after 10k rounds.

Later

Did nitriding exist pre-WW2? I’m starting to lean toward the guy claiming 48 RC for K31 barrels was just talking out his rear end. Certainly the Swiss and Swede rifles used real high quality steel, apparently even the Germans were supposedly jealous of the steel that the Swedes had access to. But when it was actually tested, it was within a typical barrel’s hardness range, 28.5. And IIRC, Larry Racine at least used to rebarrel K31’s by chopping off and threading the barrel stub. Don’t recall him mentioning having to do anything special in working with the Swiss barrel steel..

 

[__JR__]

Did nitriding exist pre-WW2? I’m starting to lean toward the guy claiming 48 RC for K31 barrels was just talking out his rear end. Certainly the Swiss and Swede rifles used real high quality steel, apparently even the Germans were supposedly jealous of the steel that the Swedes had access to. But when it was actually tested, it was within a typical barrel’s hardness range, 28.5. And IIRC, Larry Racine at least used to rebarrel K31’s by chopping off and threading the barrel stub. Don’t recall him mentioning having to do anything special in working with the Swiss barrel steel..

Chrome existed then. The high quality steels didn't necessarily mean they were harder btw. Might have meant cleaner, less porous.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

@Frank Green @__JR__ do y’all recognize what machine Pedersoli uses to broach cut rifle their barrels?

 

[__JR__]

@Frank Green @__JR__ do y’all recognize what machine Pedersoli uses to broach cut rifle their barrels?

Yes. It's an internal broach. there are many types of broach machines around that will do a controlled helical cut. I have broach rifling tools from wayback that look very similar to the tool shown. I liked the straightener myself, similar to the coat rack I had back in the day.

Later

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Yes. It's an internal broach. there are many types of broach machines around that will do a controlled helical cut. I have broach rifling tools from wayback that look very similar to the tool shown. I liked the straightener myself, similar to the coat rack I had back in the day.

Later

Is it possible to sharpen and reuse broaches multiple times the same as a hook cutter? Or will it be too small to cut a proper groove depth after sharpening?

 

[__JR__]

sure, but it's last tooth that counts to finish size
and form . and all depends on geometry.

 

[Frank Green]

As JR said there are different types of machines that can pull the broach.

JR did you catch it around the 6 minute mark where after they pull the broach thru then they pull a button thru to try and smooth out the grooves. Nothing like possibly creating a bottom less pit. For one if there is any mis alignment with the button and the existing rifling etc...you will start messing up the lands and or if what the broach cut the groove land with to and what the button does will cause issues as well.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

As JR said there are different types of machines that can pull the broach.

JR did you catch it around the 6 minute mark where after they pull the broach thru then they pull a button thru to try and smooth out the grooves. Nothing like possibly creating a bottom less pit. For one if there is any mis alignment with the button and the existing rifling etc...you will start messing up the lands and or if what the broach cut the groove land with to and what the button does will cause issues as well.

Interesting, I didn’t catch that. I wonder where they got the idea to do that from, and why not just go with one or the other..?

 

[__JR__]

As JR said there are different types of machines that can pull the broach.

JR did you catch it around the 6 minute mark where after they pull the broach thru then they pull a button thru to try and smooth out the grooves. Nothing like possibly creating a bottom less pit. For one if there is any mis alignment with the button and the existing rifling etc...you will start messing up the lands and or if what the broach cut the groove land with to and what the button does will cause issues as well.

Frank, I worked Europe for how long.. I don't try to figure out why they do things wrong. LOL

Later

 

[Frank Green]

Other places have done or do still do it.

To me your just asking for problems. If you cut rifle all or half of the barrel and then pull a button thru. Just cut rifle the whole thing and finish lap it and be done with it. The button isn’t going to make it any better in my opinion. Again just throwing another variable in the mix and button rifling is a bigger variable.

 

[__JR__]

Other places have done or do still do it.

To me your just asking for problems. If you cut rifle all or half of the barrel and then pull a button thru. Just cut rifle the whole thing and finish lap it and be done with it. The button isn’t going to make it any better in my opinion. Again just throwing another variable in the mix and button rifling is a bigger variable.

Missing my point. If you do it right to begin with, you don't have to go thru the struggle to make it right. Straight's straight, queer's queer. How I lernt the trad anyway. I did get to learn the straightener, only to learn it was a bellend on the neck, to make a crooked hole straight rather than make it straight to begin with..Solved many problems.

Later

 

[Frank Green]

Missing my point. If you do it right to begin with, you don't have to go thru the struggle to make it right. Straight's straight, queer's queer. How I lernt the trad anyway. I did get to learn the straightener, only to learn it was a bellend on the neck, to make a crooked hole straight rather than make it straight to begin with..Solved many problems.

Later

JR, I think we are talking about two different things.

I'm not talking about straightening the barrel. I'm there with you on that as well.

What I was talking about was them broach cutting the barrel and then pulling a button thru it.

Later, Frank

 

[__JR__]

JR, I think we are talking about two different things.

I'm not talking about straightening the barrel. I'm there with you on that as well.

What I was talking about was them broach cutting the barrel and then pulling a button thru it.

Later, Frank

Ha, no I was with you bud, just didn't cut to the chase.. Get it right and you don't have to rifle twice. They just as well go straight to button, but perhaps they had difficulty with broaches staying together cutting full depth, or the length of broach needed to go full depth precluded them from doing so, and difficulty with buttons staying together ironing full depth. what is curious is if they are buttoning after profile, the finish bore diameters might not be that consistent as changes in the wall thickness. button is all about hoop stress for consistent spring back. Different strokes I guess

Later

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Ha, no I was with you bud, just didn't cut to the chase.. Get it right and you don't have to rifle twice. They just as well go straight to button, but perhaps they had difficulty with broaches staying together cutting full depth, or the length of broach needed to go full depth precluded them from doing so, and difficulty with buttons staying together ironing full depth. what is curious is if they are buttoning after profile, the finish bore diameters might not be that consistent as changes in the wall thickness. button is all about hoop stress for consistent spring back. Different strokes I guess

Later

Would/should they stress relieve after running a button thru a broach cut barrel?

Also meant to ask, can/does reamer chatter/tooling chatter impart stress into a barrel?
@Frank Green

 

[__JR__]

Would/should they stress relieve after running a button thru a broach cut barrel?

Also meant to ask, can/does reamer chatter/tooling chatter impart stress into a barrel?
@Frank Green

You should run a stress relieve op after pulling a button thru. Regardless if it's been broached prior. Hole is a hole. Hoop is a hoop. Moved material, didn't cut.

Cold work, cold forming, or shock is usually what imparts stresses into steel. Bending moments, forming, dropping on the concrete floor, that sort of thing. A chattering reamer could, if it is more moving material around than removing material in a clean cut. But a chattered reamed hole will have bigger issues than stress. And your definition of chatter could be different than mine. Tool marks aren't necessarily chatter. Franks likely seen a chattering bore reamer, which looks smooth with borescope but when eyeballed it looks pre rifled. Zany!

Later

 

[Frank Green]

Ha, no I was with you bud, just didn't cut to the chase.. Get it right and you don't have to rifle twice. They just as well go straight to button, but perhaps they had difficulty with broaches staying together cutting full depth, or the length of broach needed to go full depth precluded them from doing so, and difficulty with buttons staying together ironing full depth. what is curious is if they are buttoning after profile, the finish bore diameters might not be that consistent as changes in the wall thickness. button is all about hoop stress for consistent spring back. Different strokes I guess

Later

Yep we are on the same page! Seems redundant and extra work when the work isn't needed if you do it right the first time!

 

[Frank Green]

Franks likely seen a chattering bore reamer, which looks smooth with borescope but when eyeballed it looks pre rifled. Zany!

Later

We call it roping.

Yep to the other things you posted as well!

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

@Frank Green @__JR__ do yall know if HS Precision barrels are single point cut rifled or broach cut rifled?

 

[Frank Green]

As far as I know suppose to be single point.

 

[__JR__]

single point. Guy who cuts them is legend.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

single point. Guy who cuts them is legend.

His name aint Atkinson is it?

 

[__JR__]

His name aint Atkinson is it?

Nope. WTA is dead. The legend is Nubbins, and he's the real deal.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Nope. WTA is dead. The legend is Nubbins, and he's the real deal.

Was Atkinson making barrels before Obermeyer? Where/from who did Obermeyer learn to rifle barrels?

@Frank Green @__JR__ thanks a ton for answering all my dumb questions gentlemen!

Btw, have yall ever tried a stainless steel barrel on a full auto and if so, did you notice any difference vs CM?

Also, have you ever tried making a 17-4PH SS barrel? The only ones I ever heard of was John Noveske apparently made a few several years back, and it was so hard on tooling that he stopped after just like ~10 of em... I dont believe the Lothar Walther propietary steel is 17-4, but I could be wrong.

 

[__JR__]

Was Atkinson making barrels before Obermeyer? Where/from who did Obermeyer learn to rifle barrels?

@Frank Green @__JR__ thanks a ton for answering all my dumb questions gentlemen!

Btw, have yall ever tried a stainless steel barrel on a full auto and if so, did you notice any difference vs CM?

Also, have you ever tried making a 17-4PH SS barrel? The only ones I ever heard of was John Noveske apparently made a few several years back, and it was so hard on tooling that he stopped after just like ~10 of em... I dont believe the Lothar Walther propietary steel is 17-4, but I could be wrong.

I'd have to check on that, but venture he was. Atkinson was part of the A&M barrels back in the day, who were in the forms of the Sukalles and Popes, and the other read about greats.

I have personally cut rifled 17-4, 15-5, stellite (cobalt chromium), Stavax, H series, leaded and unleaded 41series CM, all the forms of 410SS, brass, 6061 and 7075, Hip clad, tantalum, many european grades we don't see here including the 'proprietary' LW material am not at liberty to discuss. And more. Had people show up with a piece of conduit or pipe, why not. How about clear acrylic, that would make a good video. who knows, lets try it. Oh, and wood.

later

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I'd have to check on that, but venture he was. Atkinson was part of the A&M barrels back in the day, who were in the forms of the Sukalles and Popes, and the other read about greats.

I have personally cut rifled 17-4, 15-5, stellite (cobalt chromium), Stavax, H series, leaded and unleaded 41series CM, all the forms of 410SS, brass, 6061 and 7075, Hip clad, tantalum, many european grades we don't see here including the 'proprietary' LW material am not at liberty to discuss. And more. Had people show up with a piece of conduit or pipe, why not. How about clear acrylic, that would make a good video. who knows, lets try it. Oh, and wood.

later

Wow, was the stellite tough on tooling? Also, why not go to one of these more exotic materials permanently? I would think stellite especially would last near forever..??

I remember some crazy Canucks cut rifling a piece of rebar for a .22, actually shot very well!!

 

[Ledzep]

I'd like a rifled piece of high tensile rebar for a "garbage rod" mosin nagant rebuild at some point in my life...

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I'd like a rifled piece of high tensile rebar for a "garbage rod" mosin nagant rebuild at some point in my life...

Rebar barrel

124171241612418Ive had several emails and phone calls about the article in Precision Shooting about my rebar barrel made by myself and Ron Smith here in Alberta Canada. A couple of fellows asked if I could write a little about it on this Forum so here goes. As many Canadians an US shooter know...

benchrest.com

Apparently a schuetzen rifle in .357 Max, not a .22 ... according to a reply at the bottom.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

@Frank Green @__JR__ have y’all ever heard of any barrel makers offering apprenticeships? What would be the best way to go about getting a foot in the door of the barrel business?
Do y’all know of any barrel makers in Georgia since Mr Clay Spencer retired?

 

[precisionriflecomponents]

Criterion bought up a bunch of the original equipment that made a lot of our stuff and refurbished it and are making stuff for CMP.
Josh would be a good person to ask this question to,I'm sure he could tell you more than you'll ever want to know about it.

Thanks for the shoutout @Ravenworks - Imagine my surprise when I'm just casually browsing along on the Hide and my name pops up in conversation!

These days I'm no longer affiliated with Criterion (I work for a marketing agency that represents a few firearm manufacturers like Vortakt Barrel Works and Midwest Industries, and put together my own little side-hustle start up called Precision Rifle Components), but I do still have a copy of that GCA article we published regarding the vintage WWII machinery Criterion was using in the shop at the time (see attached).

Aside from that, @Frank Green is most likely correct with his assessment that Pratt cut-rifling machines were used in the wartime production of M1 Garand and 1903 barrels (with both Sine Bar riflers and the B-Series hydraulic riflers).

You can find a nice little write-up on the subject here.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Thanks for the shoutout @Ravenworks - Imagine my surprise when I'm just casually browsing along on the Hide and my name pops up in conversation!

These days I'm no longer affiliated with Criterion (I work for a marketing agency that represents a few firearm manufacturers like Vortakt Barrel Works and Midwest Industries, and put together my own little side-hustle start up called Precision Rifle Components), but I do still have a copy of that GCA article we published regarding the vintage WWII machinery Criterion was using in the shop at the time (see attached).

Aside from that, @Frank Green is most likely correct with his assessment that Pratt cut-rifling machines were used in the wartime production of M1 Garand and 1903 barrels (with both Sine Bar riflers and the B-Series hydraulic riflers).

You can find a nice little write-up on the subject here.

Thanks for chiming in sir! Do you know how the original M1 and M14 National Match barrels were selected? Was the process different for 1903NM's and M1's and M14NM's? Ie I know the 03 barrels were star gauged, but havent heard about M1 and M14 NM barrels being star gauged..??

Also werent the M2HB barrels stellite lined?