Howa 1500 vs Rem 700

[unoigo]

Long time lurker here but looking to try out a bolt gun vs many years running a gas gun. Have plenty of .308 so plan to stay with that caliber. Locally I have the option of a Howa 1500 in a KRG Bravo and a Rem 700 AAC in a KRG Bravo. Both rifles are around the $900 mark.

I’ve read some threads comparing the two and it seems the Howa is a better shooter out of the box but the 700 has more accessories available to it. From what I can tell, this still seems the case. However there used to be all kinds of threads popping up on the 1500, on this board and many others but I’m just not seeing much anymore. Any specific reason?

I welcome any feedback between the two as I hope to pick one of them up this week.

 

[stello1001]

The reason you're not seeing many talk on howa is because they are just not that popular, period!!! Not many people have them.

There is one recent thread where the owner of his new howa Oryx was disappointed that was I guess not feeding properly and bolt didn't feel smooth. The feeding issues were a combination of the Oryx not taking AI mags so he couldn't run AI plus using binderless mags without nothing the feed ramp.

This is not an issue singling out Howa in particular. Well maybe the bolt issue is, but with use, it gets better. My howa bolt runs and lifts pretty smooth.

The howa is a flat bottom with integral recoil lug, which are features I like that the Remington does not have. The out of box accuracy on a howa will be spot on while not always with a remmy. A howa does not need truing and Remingtons usually do. Remington might have more aftermarket options for its 700 but howa 1500 has all the aftermarket it needs.

My BIL has a 700 which it's bolt feels like it's running on gravel by the way, so I didn't like it. I believe the howa will be better and serve you best.

Good luck!

 

[Wading]

Most of the Howas I have seen in the last 15 years or so have been very accurate. 1 MOA is not exceptional, but fairly common with loads the rifle likes.
Now remember, the most accurate rifle on earth will shoot some loads better than others, so how accurate a rifle is can only be determined after some load work.
But 1.5 MOA is probably not going to be a challenge at all.

 

[stello1001]

More like sub MOA with factory loads...

 

[flatland1]

I've built & sold several Howa customs, as well as probably 4-5 times as many M700s. There are things I like about both platforms, and a few things I don't like. I've had several M700 bolts that had extraction issues with the original stamped extractor: for that reason alone, I prefer to buy a bare receiver & use a PTG custom one-piece bolt with mini-16 extractor. Unlike others who've posted about issues with bolt timing with a PTG bolt, I've never had an issue with more than a dozen of those bolts in my own or customers' rifles, even after having to cut a couple thou off the backside (engagement surface) of the lugs to allow the bolt to close. There are any number of DBMs made for the 700 or clones, while the only DBM I've used on a Howa are those made by PTG. The downside to fitting DBM to a Howa short action is that you have to mill away part of the projection at the rear of the mag well to allow AICS mags to slide up into the action bottom. It's not hard to do - if you've got a vertical mill. You need to leave this projection protruding out a bit, and make a shallow cut at the bottom just deep enough to engage the top rear of the magazine so pressure on the bottom of the mag won't force it up into the action to the point where it interferes with the bolt. The plus-side of using PTG DBM is that the inlet for it (at least on the B&C stocks I've used for Howas) is relatively minor, and can be done in 10-15 minutes with a Dremel. I keep one lathe set up to cut metric threads, though it does take a gear change to switch back & forth to cut the 1.5mm threads for the Howa 1500 & the 1mm threads for a Howa Mini.

I used to bitch & moan about having to take a parting cut right up against the receiver in the shank of a Howa bbl to relieve the pressure on the bbl threads enough to remove a factory bbl from the action. But it seems to me that since Howa started using their HACT trigger, it's now no harder to remove a Howa factory bbl than a M700 bbl - and most times, it's easier to break the Howa loose. And speaking of the HACT triggers - it's a pretty simple operation to remove the trigger blade from the trigger housing and cut a coil or just a hair more than a coil off the trigger return spring, which most generally results in a break of 1.5lbs or less, which is as good as or better than what you wind up with when you spend the money on a Timney. That's a good thing, because there are nowhere near the choices of triggers for a Howa as there is for a M700. Personally, I think the Howa action is a good value as-is, though in my experience with the RR-prefix M700 receivers, I've seldom seen the need to take a clean-up cut to square the receiver face. I can't speak to the accuracy potential of factory Howa bbls, since I've never fired a single round through one. Some guys are pretty happy with how they shoot right out of the box. OTOH, I've bore-scoped a few Remington factory bbls that looked awful, and didn't shoot worth a crap either. This lack of quality isn't confined to the Remington brand though, as my experience with my own personal Win M70s hasn't been good either. If I were going to be limited to keeping a factory barrel on a rifle, I'd buy a Howa every time instead of either a M70 or M700.

 

[stello1001]

I've built & sold several Howa customs, as well as probably 4-5 times as many M700s. There are things I like about both platforms, and a few things I don't like. I've had several M700 bolts that had extraction issues with the original stamped extractor: for that reason alone, I prefer to buy a bare receiver & use a PTG custom one-piece bolt with mini-16 extractor. Unlike others who've posted about issues with bolt timing with a PTG bolt, I've never had an issue with more than a dozen of those bolts in my own or customers' rifles, even after having to cut a couple thou off the backside (engagement surface) of the lugs to allow the bolt to close. There are any number of DBMs made for the 700 or clones, while the only DBM I've used on a Howa are those made by PTG. The downside to fitting DBM to a Howa short action is that you have to mill away part of the projection at the rear of the mag well to allow AICS mags to slide up into the action bottom. It's not hard to do - if you've got a vertical mill. You need to leave this projection protruding out a bit, and make a shallow cut at the bottom just deep enough to engage the top rear of the magazine so pressure on the bottom of the mag won't force it up into the action to the point where it interferes with the bolt. The plus-side of using PTG DBM is that the inlet for it (at least on the B&C stocks I've used for Howas) is relatively minor, and can be done in 10-15 minutes with a Dremel. I keep one lathe set up to cut metric threads, though it does take a gear change to switch back & forth to cut the 1.5mm threads for the Howa 1500 & the 1mm threads for a Howa Mini.

I used to bitch & moan about having to take a parting cut right up against the receiver in the shank of a Howa bbl to relieve the pressure on the bbl threads enough to remove a factory bbl from the action. But it seems to me that since Howa started using their HACT trigger, it's now no harder to remove a Howa factory bbl than a M700 bbl - and most times, it's easier to break the Howa loose. And speaking of the HACT triggers - it's a pretty simple operation to remove the trigger blade from the trigger housing and cut a coil or just a hair more than a coil off the trigger return spring, which most generally results in a break of 1.5lbs or less, which is as good as or better than what you wind up with when you spend the money on a Timney. That's a good thing, because there are nowhere near the choices of triggers for a Howa as there is for a M700. Personally, I think the Howa action is a good value as-is, though in my experience with the RR-prefix M700 receivers, I've seldom seen the need to take a clean-up cut to square the receiver face. I can't speak to the accuracy potential of factory Howa bbls, since I've never fired a single round through one. Some guys are pretty happy with how they shoot right out of the box. OTOH, I've bore-scoped a few Remington factory bbls that looked awful, and didn't shoot worth a crap either. This lack of quality isn't confined to the Remington brand though, as my experience with my own personal Win M70s hasn't been good either. If I were going to be limited to keeping a factory barrel on a rifle, I'd buy a Howa every time instead of either a M70 or M700.

This is the first I hear about having to mill away the under of a howa to run AI mags. Mine runs AI mags the way it came from factory...

 

[jcmullis2]

The fella also had firing pin chipping. The howa I have shoots sub moa my Remingtons shoot 1/2 moa but they’re in better stocks. My howa feels cheap and the bolt is very rough when cycling. Dirt/mud can easily get inside a howa bolt in the swamps where I live but other fellas have nothing to worry about. The howa trigger is better. If they shoot the same and cost the same I’d go with the Remington. Better part availability. If you prefer the howa you should check out Brownells. You can buy a new howa barreled action and krg bravo for $900. Just saying

 

[stello1001]

Here is the original Howa thread in case you are interested...

Howa 1500 builds **post them**

Hello all, So being a Howa owner, it's always nice to see what modifications or changes others do to theirs. Plus, the howa 1500 action is a great shooting platform and typically very very accurate. I noticed there is no such thread and decided i should start one seeing as how Bergara, Tikka...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Drew M]

I have multiple Howa rifles & all shoot under MOA,
The hogue stocks suck & I don't use them.
Bravo should be good to go

Not sure what has happened with the firing pin chipping ? on the Oryx Howa thread but can tell you every Howa I've seen shoots

 

[jcmullis2]

I have multiple Howa rifles & all shoot under MOA,
The hogue stocks suck & I don't use them.
Bravo should be good to go

Not sure what has happened with the firing pin chipping ? on the Oryx Howa thread but can tell you every Howa I've seen shoots

Mine shoots good too and for $300 used with a axiom stock included I really shouldn’t complain. The plastic stock sucks and I haven’t tried the axiom but it looks shitty too. The bolt isn’t very good either but it might smooth out. The gun was used but maybe it was only used during hunting seasons. My 243 win Howa barreled action doesn’t come close to my 308 win Remington 700p barreled action. At half the price I didn’t expect it would. New they both cost about $600 and the Remington is far better. If I were the OP, wanting a 308 win, I would buy a new Remington 700p barreled action and a new krg bravo. The person or people trying to sell him those used guns are asking new prices. Hopefully he checks out Brownells for the Howa barreled action and gunbroker for the Remington 700p barreled action. He might as well buy new at those prices. I’m sure he’ll be happy with either one.

 

[unoigo]

Appreciate the replies. Looks like buying barreled action and stock separately is a better way to go.

 

[jcmullis2]

Appreciate the replies. Looks like buying barreled action and stock separately is a better way to go.

It’s better to buy new because you don’t know why they wanna get rid of it. People don’t usually sell good shooting rifles. The Remington 700p in 308 is a better quality product. I highly recommend it, you won’t be disappointed. I’ll buy it from you if you are. That’s how sure of it I am.

 

[Harman117]

It’s better to buy new because you don’t know why they wanna get rid of it. People don’t usually sell good shooting rifles. The Remington 700p in 308 is a better quality product. I highly recommend it, you won’t be disappointed. I’ll buy it from you if you are. That’s how sure of it I am.

I disagree, I would personally put Howa above Rem700 on "quality" of product. Again, that is my personal opinion, just like yours. Which you should clearly state as such; you already got called out on another thread for try to pass subjective experiences as facts. It's a disservice to the community when people do that. You're allowed to an opinion, just make it known thats what it is.

 

[jcmullis2]

I disagree, I would personally put Howa above Rem700 on "quality" of product. Again, that is my personal opinion, just like yours. Which you should clearly state as such; you already got called out on another thread for try to pass subjective experiences as facts. It's a disservice to the community when people do that. Your allowed to an opinion, just make it know thats what it is.

Lol. I’ll use small words so you can understand. The “I” prefacing the statement indicates that it’s mine. It shows ownership. My opinion if you will. How can it be anything other than an opinion as it belongs to me? I’m not gonna give you English lessons. That’s something you should have learned in elementary school. You sound like a child looking for something to whine about, or a child in need of some attention. By the way I don’t understand what you’re trying to say at the very end of your response. “,just make it know” wtf. I guess that was your attempt to form a sentence. Lmmfao

 

[Hunt]

I am a Remington fan as that's what I grew up with. There's a lot of after-market support for 700. However, on a whim, I decided to try a Howa 1500 .223. I was amazing surprised by how smooth feeding and extraction was as well as the 2-stage trigger. I've never had a factory Remington feel as smooth feed as the Howa. For the money, they're a bargain. The only other factory action that feeds smoother is a Tikka.

 

[Harman117]

Lol. I’ll use small words so you can understand. The “I” prefacing the statement indicates that it’s mine. It shows ownership. My opinion if you will. How can it be anything other than an opinion as it belongs to me? I’m not gonna give you English lessons. That’s something you should have learned in elementary school. You sound like a child looking for something to whine about, or a child in need of some attention. By the way I don’t understand what you’re trying to say at the very end of your response. “,just make it know” wtf. I guess that was your attempt to form a sentence. Lmmfao

"The Remington 700p in 308 is a better quality product." Show me where the "I" is at in this sentence.

Should have been *known*, edited to fix.

Your emotional/ad hominem response actually makes you look like the child.

 

[BadAccountant]

I've had Howas and I've had Remys. I like the Howa, and mine's in .308. Bear in mind there will be differences based on action length. A mini action has a shorter, stiffer spring and will likely have a harder bolt lift. The Howa short actions are very smooth, and if you adjust the trigger all the way down, is VERY easy to cycle.

Here are the pros of the Howa:
1. Better bolt design. The Remy is perfectly adequate, but the Howa is a one piece design, is very sturdy, and the bolt handle is one piece integral to the bolt body.
2. Better extractor. The Howa has an oversized M-16 style extractor that does a really good job of extracting rounds.
3. Good barrels. Even though it's a CMV CHF barrel, I've found they're extremely consistent for a production gun. I doubt you will ever shoot out one of their .308 barrels.
4. Integral recoil lug. No possibility of barrel misalignment due to an oblong or imperfectly ground recoil lug, and if you send it to a smith you don't need to replace it with a PTG or Badger lug.
5. Excellent fit and finish. The floorplate and blind mag in my rifle are so good that I haven't replaced it with a DBM system. It works extremely well and allows me to seat long bullets. Feeding has never been an issue.
6. Precision guarantee. If it doesn't shoot, it's Howa's problem. Ship it back and let them deal with it. You get no such assurances from Remy.
7. Factory trigger is... actually really damn good. It's a 2 stage, so some don't like it for that reason, but there is zero give in it. It's a very sold unit. You take up the first stage, and it break very cleanly. You can adjust it down, but doing so voids the warranty. However, mine it sitting at around a pound and a half.
8. Smooooooth. Some here are saying the Howas are gritty and rough. That does not align with my experiences. That said, my usual routine with a new rifle regardless of price point or manufacturer is to strip it, clean it, lube it, and cycle it a few hundred times to wear the bolt and raceways in. It also helps to develop a wear pattern on cocking surfaces. A few hundred cycles later, I end up with a very smooth gun. Also understand that CMV on CMV is going to typically be smoother than stainless on stainless.
9. You can buy the action and stock separately.
10. Good QC. This is something that only a smith would notice, but I took apart my gun as soon as I got it to check for square and concentricity. The front face was less than .001" out. The thread concentricity was also excellent, being around .0015" out. The barrel was straight and lug contact was over 80%. I couldn't find much to complain about.


Cons:
1. Aftermarket support. It's getting better, and yes the 2 piece bases from Remys work on a Howa. The one piece bases do not. Stocks and chassis systems aren't hard to find, though.
2. Metric thread pitch. The barrel thread is 26x1.5 metric. It's not a common thread, and some smaller smiths may not have the gearing to cut metric thread on their lathes.
3. Dinky factory DBM system. It's shitty plastic, get rid of it if your rifles comes with one and use a good AICS system.
4. Factory stocks are junk. The Hogue is okayish, but unless you're buying the HS Precision or KRG, they just aren't all that great.

 

[308pirate]

If I were the OP, wanting a 308 win, I would buy a new Remington 700p barreled action and a new krg bravo.

You would be the only one

 

[308pirate]

The downside to fitting DBM to a Howa short action is that you have to mill away part of the projection at the rear of the mag well to allow AICS mags to slide up into the action bottom.

I have not had to do that to make AICS magazines work in both my Howas that sit in KRG 180-Xray chassis.

 

[jcmullis2]

You would be the only one

I have both and like I said my howa shoots sub moa groups in a shitty plastic stock and has a better trigger. I also said he would be happy with either. However I just believe between a r700 police barreled action and a Howa barreled action the Remington is better. I wonder how many Howa’s are in combat or are used by police snipers? I’m okay with being the only one on this thread that prefer Remington.

 

[celltech]

Only thing I hate on my Howa .308 is the tiny bolt knob. And since it's all 1 piece I had to grind it down and thread it for a better knob. Howa steel is tough...

 

[BadAccountant]

I have both and like I said my howa shoots sub moa groups in a shitty plastic stock and has a better trigger. I also said he would be happy with either. However I just believe between a r700 police barreled action and a Howa barreled action the Remington is better. I wonder how many Howa’s are in combat or are used by police snipers? I’m okay with being the only one on this thread that prefer Remington.

I get where you're going with this, but it takes A LOT of work to get a Remington 700 to the point where a police sniper, military sniper, or even just a guy going out on weekends to shoot PRS would trust that rifle completely.

There are ZERO factory Remington 700s in service with the military or with LEO snipers. At best they came out of the Remington custom shop.

Most of the time, you have smiths who keep nothing but the trigger and receiver, true the lugs, front face, threads, slot the receiver, open up the factory mounting holes to 8x40, install an aftermarket recoil lug and cut-rifled barrel, weld the bolt handle on, thread it for a better bolt knob, inlet a high-end stock, and glass bed the thing. That's $3000 - $4000 worth of work right there, and we haven't even talked about installing a bigger extractor or dual ejectors, which is also a popular mod to fix the ejection angle so rounds are not banging off your scope turrets.

In other words, they spend a lot of time and a lot of money building a rifle they could finally deem to be adequate for the job precisely because the factory offered Remington 700 was not up to the task.

I'm not saying that the Howa would be, either. What I am saying is that Howa designed their rifle to have less to correct, and of the rifles out there in the hands of serious people who do serious things with those rifles, not a single one is a factory Remington 700.

The best we can say is that they made a good receiver and that's generous considering the work that is put into to correcting the inconsistencies from the factory.

 

[1500varmint]

However there used to be all kinds of threads popping up on the 1500, on this board and many others but I’m just not seeing much anymore. Any specific reason?

I think Howa's were "hot" here a couple of years ago because Brownell's was practically giving away the barreled actions. They had many on sale for $230 with free shipping. I got a .308 short action, 24" heavy barrel and put it in a Bell and Carlson tactical stock (also on sale), so I had a complete rifle for just over $500.

I regret not buying several barreled actions at the time, but I only needed one.

 

[308pirate]

I wonder how many Howa’s are in combat or are used by police snipers?

A stupid question that has nothing to do with the inherent quality of the rifle

But if you must know, the Japanese Ground Self Defense Force (aka Japanese Army) has been using Howa assault rifles since 1964.

 

[jcmullis2]

I get where you're going with this, but it takes A LOT of work to get a Remington 700 to the point where a police sniper, military sniper, or even just a guy going out on weekends to shoot PRS would trust that rifle completely.

There are ZERO factory Remington 700s in service with the military or with LEO snipers. At best they came out of the Remington custom shop.

Most of the time, you have smiths who keep nothing but the trigger and receiver, true the lugs, front face, threads, slot the receiver, open up the factory mounting holes to 8x40, install an aftermarket recoil lug and cut-rifled barrel, weld the bolt handle on, thread it for a better bolt knob, inlet a high-end stock, and glass bed the thing. That's $3000 - $4000 worth of work right there, and we haven't even talked about installing a bigger extractor or dual ejectors, which is also a popular mod to fix the ejection angle so rounds are not banging off your scope turrets.

In other words, they spend a lot of time and a lot of money building a rifle they could finally deem to be adequate for the job precisely because the factory offered Remington 700 was not up to the task.

I'm not saying that the Howa would be, either. What I am saying is that Howa designed their rifle to have less to correct, and of the rifles out there in the hands of serious people who do serious things with those rifles, not a single one is a factory Remington 700.

The best we can say is that they made a good receiver and that's generous considering the work that is put into to correcting the inconsistencies from the factory.

I think you missed my point. I was responding to a little taunting by a guy who said that I was the only one that preferred the Remington. I indicated that others outside this post prefer Remington so I was okay being the only one here. I used the military and law enforcement as examples of others who prefer Remington. Not that I was comparing their weapons to a factory Howa. The cost is much less than what you indicated but I understand what you were getting at.
Your right, military and law enforcement put a significant amount of work into those Remingtons. They do that because the rifle has to be better than sub 0.3 moa including cold bore shots. They know that going in and choose Remington over Howa. I think our idea of serious shooting is as different as night and day. I believe Military and law enforcement are the only serious shooters and the rest are shooting for points and prizes. I’m know people get emotional about the sport, spend lots of money, and are serious about winning. However let’s not get stuff twisted and think of that as serious shooting because it’s not. If you ever have to do any serious shooting you'll understand just how much difference there is.
The majority of the custom actions use the basic Remington design. They could use Howa but they chose Remington. They probably like it too.
So back to the point I was trying to make earlier, I might be the only guy on this post that prefers Remington but I’m far from the only person that prefers Remington. I’ll be honest with you, I’m a bit prejudiced on this subject. I think we all might be to one degree or another.
I’d like to compliment you on your very professional way of disagreeing with someone. I also like how you put your reasons in a clear and concise way. You made several good points. I enjoyed reading your position on this topic. Your contribution here wasn’t lost on me. If others, myself included, were able to communicate our thoughts as well as you the Hide would be better for it. Many of us aren’t as articulate and our message not as clear. Mine are perfect examples of how bad some are. This often gets others offended and we resort to knit picking, name calling, taunting, and other childish behavior. You sir are a gentleman and scholar and I commend you for that. It’s been a pleasure exchanging opposing views with you.

 

[308pirate]

Only thing I hate on my Howa .308 is the tiny bolt knob. And since it's all 1 piece I had to grind it down and thread it for a better knob. Howa steel is tough...

Bolt On Quick Load Knob for the Weatherby Vanguard 2. — Bolt On QLK

Bolt On Quick Load Knob for the Weatherby Vanguard 2.

www.boltonquickloadknob.com

I have one on each of my rifles. They rock.

 

[ddridan]

Military contracts are won by the lowest bidder, not by the bidder with the highest quality so it’s a pretty weak argument. Only the US Army used a factory offered Remington that being the M24. The USMC just bought the actions and trued/built them to their spec. I have both in my safe, the Rem700 is rough as burlap undies compared to the Howas.

 

[flatland1]

Only thing I hate on my Howa .308 is the tiny bolt knob. And since it's all 1 piece I had to grind it down and thread it for a better knob. Howa steel is tough...

I used to wonder how best to cut the rather small factory bolt knob down to be threaded, then I saw a video posted by a gunsmith named Alan Maughan (who I believe is a Canandan) where he made a split holder or collet to hold a Howa bolt in a mill vise. He oriented the handle visually to be vertical, and then used an annular cutter to cut around the existing knob so that the stub that's left was the correct diameter to thread it with a 5/16-24 die (in his case, he used a metric die, I just don't recall the thread size, so I substituted 5/16-24, since that's what most knobs are threaded for here in the States). It takes some skill and patience to set the bolt up so that the cutter machines the stub so that it winds up being closely aligned with the handle, but after doing a few Howa bolts with this method, I prefer it to using a PTG jig that's made to hold a M700 bolt so the factory oval-shaped knob can be turned down in a lathe to a 5/16 stub and rough threaded with a threading tool, then finished with a die. It's been a long time since I used a M700 factory bolt (prefer to buy bare receivers and fit them with a PTG custom bolt), but if I were in the position that a customer wanted his factory knob cut down & threaded, I believe I'd use the collet I made to hold 700 bolts and proceed with the correct size annular cutter, same as I would do on a Howa. Done correctly, the annular cutter leaves a 'skirt' of the original knob in place to which the custom bolt knob can be fitted up against, and which looks very nice if done correctly.

 

[jcmullis2]

A stupid question that has nothing to do with the inherent quality of the rifle

But if you must know, the Japanese Ground Self Defense Force (aka Japanese Army) has been using Howa assault rifles since 1964.

What an ugly thing to say. Obviously it wasn’t a stupid question. Talk about stupid though. Japan hasn’t had an army navy or Air Force since we defeated them in ww2. We allow them a small national guard and coast guard for lack of better names. They do have snipers and if you wanna check you’ll see their sniper rifles are Remington not Howa.
When grown ups are exchanging thoughts, and you have nothing intelligent to add, I’ve found it best to be quiet. Here’s a old saying I always liked and seems fitting in light of your reply. “ It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”.

 

[308pirate]

What an ugly thing to say. Obviously it wasn’t a stupid question. Talk about stupid though. Japan hasn’t had an army navy or Air Force since we defeated them in ww2. We allow them a small national guard and coast guard for lack of better names.

Like you would fucking know...........let me know your dates of service. Particularly fwd deployed to Japan.

 

[ddridan]

Long time lurker here but looking to try out a bolt gun vs many years running a gas gun. Have plenty of .308 so plan to stay with that caliber. Locally I have the option of a Howa 1500 in a KRG Bravo and a Rem 700 AAC in a KRG Bravo. Both rifles are around the $900 mark.

I’ve read some threads comparing the two and it seems the Howa is a better shooter out of the box but the 700 has more accessories available to it. From what I can tell, this still seems the case. However there used to be all kinds of threads popping up on the 1500, on this board and many others but I’m just not seeing much anymore. Any specific reason?

I welcome any feedback between the two as I hope to pick one of them up this week.

Well for the OP, instead of adding more to the dumpster fire of the argument, there are a few reasons I like the Howa more than the Rem700. Howa uses a one piece bolt, where as the bolt handle on the Rem is silver soldered on (obvious weakness). The Howa uses an integral recoil lug, eliminating tolerance stacking from potentially out-of-square recoil lugs. I recently rebarrelled my Howa action to 6BR Norma. Absolutely no “trueing” was done to the action, and the first group with zero load development was 0.33MOA at 100m. All we did was microslick cerakote the bolt body and side by side with an Impact 737R 3 people have said the Howa is smoother with lighter bolt lift & close (whether that is due to trigger timing I’m not sure).

 

[Kevins750]

I have several 700's and just one howa in 6.5c, it shoots handloads very well. My howa is cerakoted, bolt and reciever are smooth the trigger is pretty nice.

My biggest complaint with the howa is a little more effort for bolt lift.

 

[jcmullis2]

Like you would fucking know...........let me know your dates of service. Particularly fwd deployed to Japan.

There you go removing all doubt again. Nobody has been fwd deployed to Japan since ww2. I retired from service in 2003. How about you, when did you retire from service? I bet you still live with your mommy. You really should go back to the children’s table and let the grown ups finish discussing things.

 

[aslrookie]

I have a 1500 that I've had for about 3 years now. I really have no complaints about it at all. Mine was the HCR model, so it came with a nice chassis instead of the crappy hogue stock. It originally had a 26" 308 barrel that I have since chopped down to 18.5" and use a reflex suppressor. It's the same overall length as my 11.5 AR15 suppressed SBR with the stock extended. In other words, it's a 1,000 yard rifle that is pretty compact and handy.

My only gripe about the rifle is it keeps me from spending money it. It's boringly ready-to-go, and I am one to tinker with things. I also prefer 2-stage triggers over single stage, so everything is right at home for me. I have put it up for sale on the exchange a while back because I prefer gas guns for my style of shooting, but I am glad nobody wanted to buy it because I would've spent thousands on a new M700 clone custom action with not a ton more to show for it.

 

[308pirate]

Nobody has been fwd deployed to Japan since ww2.

Yeah, obviously I don't know what I'm talking about

https://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/ccsg5/Pages/ourship.aspx#:~:text=RONALD%20REAGAN%20and%20the%2010%20surface%20combatant%20ships,Japan%2C%20when%20not%20embarked%20on%20the%20RONALD%20REAGAN

.

RONALD REAGAN and the 10 surface combatant ships are forward-deployed to Yokosuka, Japan, while CVW 5 operates forward-deployed from Atsugi and Iwakuni, Japan, when not embarked on the RONALD REAGAN. Together, these units form the U.S. Navy's only continuously forward-deployed (and largest) Carrier Strike Group, and are critical combat elements of the U.S. 7th Fleet. div>

U.S. Forces Japan

HEADQUARTERS U.S. FORCES, JAPAN
Originally established at Fuchu Air Station on July 1, 1957, USFJ, with its U.S. Army, U.S Marine Corps, U.S Navy, and U.S Air Force elements, consists of approximately 54,000 military personnel, 42,000 dependents, 8,000 DoD civilian employees, and 25,000 Japanese workers. U.S. forces are stationed in Japan pursuant to the U.S.-Japan Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security of 1960.

Headquarters U.S. Forces Japan is located at Yokota Air Base. Approximately 160 military, DoD civilians, and Japanese national employees comprise the Commander, U.S. Forces, Japan's, (COMUSJAPAN) joint staff. The joint staff administers unilateral and bilateral defense issues. HQ USFJ focuses on war planning, conduct of joint/bilateral exercises and studies, administering the Status of Forces Agreement, improving combat readiness, and enhancing the quality of life of military and DOD civilian personnel and their dependents.

III Marine Expeditionary Force

III MEF, currently headquartered in Okinawa, Japan, maintains a forward presence in support of the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the U.S. and Japan, and other regional allies of the U.S. III MEF also conducts combined operations and training throughout the region in support of the National Security Strategy for Theater Security Cooperation.

 

[unoigo]

I do like the fact the the stock trigger is 2 stage and adjustable. This will be a budget gun for me so that helps.

 

[6brshooter]

The howa is a better rifle, from the factory, than a rem. Im not saying that the rem is always going to be garbage, but the majority of them coming out are qc jokes. A rem can be made into fantastic rifle. Great shops like gap, tooley, sac, and lri have proven that. Howa has a better extractor than rem, has integral lug, the couple I have had were very even lug contact, and the 2 stage trigger that comes on them are nicer than the timney 2stage triggers ive owned. Rem always had inertia behind it, but now alot of stock and chassis makers offer inlets for tikka and howa. The days of wasting time on reworking a 700 have passed.

 

[Threerun]

I had a chance to shoot a Howa 1500. I was looking for a new bolt action for hunting a few years ago so I asked a lot of guys at the range about their rifles and I was offered to try a few of them. A laminated Tikka T3 was another I tried. Personally I liked both the Howa and the Tikka. Both I tried shot great groups (only shot from the 100yard line), but I just happened to like the Tikka a wee bit more- so I wound up buying one in 7mm mag (laminated). However after one year I sold the Tikka. I could not for the life of me get it to shoot where I wanted it. Wound up with a Browning HC Speed that shoots lights out- that's my primary hunting rig.

This past December I wound up getting a screaming (and I mean SCREAMING) deal on two new Rem5R's. One in 6.5CM and the other a 20" .308. I have never bought a Remington ANYTHING in the past. I have an old hand me down 721 that shoots okay- but its mainly the wife's rifle (it was her dads). My plan is to sell one of the two 5R's and basically wind up with one free.

I've shot both- and the Remington's I have are damn good shooters. My .308 put 5 under a dime at 100yds on my second load test.

I haven't finished working a load for the 6.5cm, but after about 40 or 50 rds got this-

Pretty crappy ES/SD #'s but its a new barrel, new brass and new loads..

The only real negative thing I've found with my Remington's are the triggers and throats long enough to park my truck in. The craptastic lawyerized trigger on the .308 was junk. I replaced it with a Timney right away. The 6.5? It's like a totally different trigger! It's smooth, crisp and actually adjusts! I'll keep that one intact. Honestly I can't say much bad about either- the bolts are fine, they shoot well (the .308 is fantastic and repeatable). I'm heavily leaning on keeping the .308- I like the 20" barrel. It'll make a great mid-range plinker and truck gun for hunting season.

All things said- If I had to choose blind and off the rack- I'd choose a Howa. At least the one shot was really well balanced and just felt 'good'. However I am pleasantly surprised at the Remington's I bought. I would have NEVER bought without the deal I was presented, so I am happy.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[BadAccountant]

I think you missed my point. I was responding to a little taunting by a guy who said that I was the only one that preferred the Remington. I indicated that others outside this post prefer Remington so I was okay being the only one here. I used the military and law enforcement as examples of others who prefer Remington. Not that I was comparing their weapons to a factory Howa. The cost is much less than what you indicated but I understand what you were getting at.
Your right, military and law enforcement put a significant amount of work into those Remingtons. They do that because the rifle has to be better than sub 0.3 moa including cold bore shots. They know that going in and choose Remington over Howa. I think our idea of serious shooting is as different as night and day. I believe Military and law enforcement are the only serious shooters and the rest are shooting for points and prizes. I’m know people get emotional about the sport, spend lots of money, and are serious about winning. However let’s not get stuff twisted and think of that as serious shooting because it’s not. If you ever have to do any serious shooting you'll understand just how much difference there is.
The majority of the custom actions use the basic Remington design. They could use Howa but they chose Remington. They probably like it too.
So back to the point I was trying to make earlier, I might be the only guy on this post that prefers Remington but I’m far from the only person that prefers Remington. I’ll be honest with you, I’m a bit prejudiced on this subject. I think we all might be to one degree or another.
I’d like to compliment you on your very professional way of disagreeing with someone. I also like how you put your reasons in a clear and concise way. You made several good points. I enjoyed reading your position on this topic. Your contribution here wasn’t lost on me. If others, myself included, were able to communicate our thoughts as well as you the Hide would be better for it. Many of us aren’t as articulate and our message not as clear. Mine are perfect examples of how bad some are. This often gets others offended and we resort to knit picking, name calling, taunting, and other childish behavior. You sir are a gentleman and scholar and I commend you for that. It’s been a pleasure exchanging opposing views with you.

.mil has been using R700s since Vietnam, and adopted the M40 before Howa even began exporting the 1500, and it makes sense that the US military would want to begin with a US rifle. I also happen to think that Howa looked at the model 700 and tried to remedy many of the shortcomings and tradeoffs in the design. R700s are usually good rifles, and they can be cleaned up to do amazing things. TacOps, GA, SAC, LRI, the PWS, and a whole lot of others have proven them to be capable of being scary good at what they do.

Remington does have good factory offerings, too, including the 700P and 5R models. However, as a company they have famously slacked on QC and rested on their laurels. I also think that certain features on the R700 should have been improved over time but were not. Remington is going to have to do some work to gain back the trust of their customers. If they cleaned up their act, offered a better factory extractor, upped the machining quality, and began offering a precision guarantee the way Howa does, I think more people would like to buy their offerings.

 

[BadAccountant]

I used to wonder how best to cut the rather small factory bolt knob down to be threaded, then I saw a video posted by a gunsmith named Alan Maughan (who I believe is a Canandan) where he made a split holder or collet to hold a Howa bolt in a mill vise. He oriented the handle visually to be vertical, and then used an annular cutter to cut around the existing knob so that the stub that's left was the correct diameter to thread it with a 5/16-24 die (in his case, he used a metric die, I just don't recall the thread size, so I substituted 5/8-24, since that's what most knobs are threaded for here in the States). It takes some skill and patience to set the bolt up so that the cutter machines the stub so that it winds up being closely aligned with the handle, but after doing a few Howa bolts with this method, I prefer it to using a PTG jig that's made to hold a M700 bolt so the factory oval-shaped knob can be turned down in a lathe to a 5/16 stub and rough threaded with a threading tool, then finished with a die. It's been a long time since I used a M700 factory bolt (prefer to buy bare receivers and fit them with a PTG custom bolt), but if I were in the position that a customer wanted his factory knob cut down & threaded, I believe I'd use the collet I made to hold 700 bolts and proceed with the correct size annular cutter, same as I would do on a Howa. Done correctly, the annular cutter leaves a 'skirt' of the original knob in place to which the custom bolt knob can be fitted up against, and which looks very nice if done correctly.

I've found this to be the best way to do a bolt know on a Howa and on a Winchester as well. I don't like having a bolt spinning around in a lathe with the bolt body spinning round and round. It's a great way to smack a knuckle, feel free to ask me how I know...

 

[stilesg57]

I've had Howas and I've had Remys. I like the Howa, and mine's in .308. Bear in mind there will be differences based on action length. A mini action has a shorter, stiffer spring and will likely have a harder bolt lift. The Howa short actions are very smooth, and if you adjust the trigger all the way down, is VERY easy to cycle.

Here are the pros of the Howa:
1. Better bolt design. The Remy is perfectly adequate, but the Howa is a one piece design, is very sturdy, and the bolt handle is one piece integral to the bolt body.
2. Better extractor. The Howa has an oversized M-16 style extractor that does a really good job of extracting rounds.
3. Good barrels. Even though it's a CMV CHF barrel, I've found they're extremely consistent for a production gun. I doubt you will ever shoot out one of their .308 barrels.
4. Integral recoil lug. No possibility of barrel misalignment due to an oblong or imperfectly ground recoil lug, and if you send it to a smith you don't need to replace it with a PTG or Badger lug.
5. Excellent fit and finish. The floorplate and blind mag in my rifle are so good that I haven't replaced it with a DBM system. It works extremely well and allows me to seat long bullets. Feeding has never been an issue.
6. Precision guarantee. If it doesn't shoot, it's Howa's problem. Ship it back and let them deal with it. You get no such assurances from Remy.
7. Factory trigger is... actually really damn good. It's a 2 stage, so some don't like it for that reason, but there is zero give in it. It's a very sold unit. You take up the first stage, and it break very cleanly. You can adjust it down, but doing so voids the warranty. However, mine it sitting at around a pound and a half.
8. Smooooooth. Some here are saying the Howas are gritty and rough. That does not align with my experiences. That said, my usual routine with a new rifle regardless of price point or manufacturer is to strip it, clean it, lube it, and cycle it a few hundred times to wear the bolt and raceways in. It also helps to develop a wear pattern on cocking surfaces. A few hundred cycles later, I end up with a very smooth gun. Also understand that CMV on CMV is going to typically be smoother than stainless on stainless.
9. You can buy the action and stock separately.
10. Good QC. This is something that only a smith would notice, but I took apart my gun as soon as I got it to check for square and concentricity. The front face was less than .001" out. The thread concentricity was also excellent, being around .0015" out. The barrel was straight and lug contact was over 80%. I couldn't find much to complain about.


Cons:
1. Aftermarket support. It's getting better, and yes the 2 piece bases from Remys work on a Howa. The one piece bases do not. Stocks and chassis systems aren't hard to find, though.
2. Metric thread pitch. The barrel thread is 26x1.5 metric. It's not a common thread, and some smaller smiths may not have the gearing to cut metric thread on their lathes.
3. Dinky factory DBM system. It's shitty plastic, get rid of it if your rifles comes with one and use a good AICS system.
4. Factory stocks are junk. The Hogue is okayish, but unless you're buying the HS Precision or KRG, they just aren't all that great.

This pretty much covers the thread.

4 Howas over the last 4yrs and this pretty much sums up my experience and thoughts. You can search my handle for a pictorial in tuning the HACT trigger with different springs.

 

[jcmullis2]

.mil has been using R700s since Vietnam, and adopted the M40 before Howa even began exporting the 1500, and it makes sense that the US military would want to begin with a US rifle. I also happen to think that Howa looked at the model 700 and tried to remedy many of the shortcomings and tradeoffs in the design. R700s are usually good rifles, and they can be cleaned up to do amazing things. TacOps, GA, SAC, LRI, the PWS, and a whole lot of others have proven them to be capable of being scary good at what they do.

Remington does have good factory offerings, too, including the 700P and 5R models. However, as a company they have famously slacked on QC and rested on their laurels. I also think that certain features on the R700 should have been improved over time but were not. Remington is going to have to do some work to gain back the trust of their customers. If they cleaned up their act, offered a better factory extractor, upped the machining quality, and began offering a precision guarantee the way Howa does, I think more people would like to buy their offerings.

Again You make some good points. I think huge no compete government contracts is a big part of the problem. The average person thinks all government contracts go to the lowest bidder and most do. Military contracts for weapons are different they go to the lowest and BEST bidder. That allows our military to choose the weapons they believe to be the best and often invites corruption. With these things being military weapons national security requires that they be American made. Once the weapon is selected in the initial competitive bidding process its many years before it’s changed or decommissioned. The recipient of the contract then typically gets no compete contracts worth millions each year. The initial contract award process is so rigorous that only a few manufacturers even bother to compete.
Remington got fat on the government tit and I think that’s how they’ve gotten comfortable resting on their laurels. I don’t know if it’ll ever change either.
I don’t agree with those who think the OP should choose a Howa over Remington and that’s okay we’re all entitled to our opinions. I like when people list their reasons even if it’s not been what I’ve experienced. I’ve often said, just because I don’t like what someone says or how they say it doesn’t mean there isn’t value in their message. There’s definitely value in what y’all have said. I’ve enjoyed hearing yours and others thoughts on this.

 

[SoonerfanNate]

A little late to the party but I’ll chime in as well. I have a 6.5 creed 1500 that shoots sub moa with around 2500 rounds through it. It’s a piece of junk for shooting PRS style Feeding issues, and hot barrel accuracy and light weight are the problem. If I want to go lay down and relax at long distances it’s dead on. I’ve stretched it to 1350 with no issues. Currently collecting parts for a 700 style build.

 

[stilesg57]

Everyone who gets serious eventually goes custom action on a 700 footprint anyway. But between 400yds and that day, a Howa is likely gonna be great for you

 

[10X Rifles]

Maybe the new owners of Remington will up the QC of the weapons. And just maybe we can get something off the shelf that does not need to be tuned before shooting!

 

[Cagey-platpus]

I have a howa 1500 HCR in 6.5 creedmoor since beginning of 2017. It's a very good rifle, shoots .75 inch groups on average and occasionally better. Very nice rifle, well built no complaints.

A few months ago I was in the market for a new rifle and was considering a Remington 700 in 300 win mag. On a different forum it was recommended that I look at the 700p model and I found a good deal and bought one.

In my opinion my 700p is a better rifle than my howa 1500 hcr. The 700p I have came with larger bolt knob, 40x trigger , hs precision stock with aluminum bedding. In another forum one of the people that works/worked for remington came on the forum and stated that the 700p is built by the same people at Remington that build the m24 which is separate from there sporting lines (I can not confirm but the gentleman was representing Remington and responding to questions about the euro optic m24 and he spoke about the 700p.

This is my first and only remington and in the past I always kept away from remington because of all the horror stories. I am impressed with the overall fit and finish and quality of the rifle, it is superior to my howa and it shots better than my howa.

I don't think you can go wrong with either but I have been impressed with the 700p and would pick it over a howa from my personal experience that is limited to one example of each.

 

[unoigo]

Good info, thanks for sharing. Since my original post, I went with a 700 barreled action and placed it in a manners. No complaints, it’s a shooter and no malfunctions to speak of.

 

[308pirate]

Remington is out of business, liquidated and sold off in pieces.

Howa Machinery Co Ltd is still in business building rifles for consumers, rifles for the Japanese military, CNC machine tools, and printed circuit board manufacturing equipment.

 

[JimmyLee]

I have the Howa HCR 1500 6.5 Creedmoor and I am wondering is there a link to aftermarket accessories so I might be able to take some weight off of it or is that even possible?

 

[aslrookie]

I have the Howa HCR 1500 6.5 Creedmoor and I am wondering is there a link to aftermarket accessories so I might be able to take some weight off of it or is that even possible?

Biggest change would be barrel profile. The only other big change would be to buy a KRG Bravo chassis for it. That's pretty much it.