HUB endcap with secondary retention?

carbonbased

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Is there a HUB endcap that has a secondary retention device built into it? Similar to, oh, Surefire’s or TBAC’s SR? One with a locking collar?

I don’t necessarily mean exactly like Surefire’s or TBAC’s, but something like that? Taper + collar?

The reason I’m asking is I’m thinking of getting a suppressor just for my AR15, and it’s sort of nice to not worry about the can walking off during shooting strings.

Don’t worry too much if this device is necessary. It’s not. After all, this is pretty much a first-world problem lol.
 
Griffin DUAL-LOK
Griffin Gate-LOK hub (no taper)
Dead Air Keymo
AAC 51T STAMP (no taper)
SilencerCo ASR
Rugged RUM
Aero Precision Mantle (not available yet)
SDTA Surefire Hub
ECCO Machine Surefire conversion service (you provide a Warden or Surefire Trainer)
D.Wilson Surefire conversion service
 
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Rugged Universal Mount is HUB, taper with locking collar.

ASR is taper with locking collar.

Torrent Suppressors Hideout is taper with locking tab to prevent backing off, but the thread is much finer than either of the above.
Ok, let’s take these one at a time:

Rugged RUM: ✅ I don’t see a collar? I see a dual taper? Maybe I’m missing something? Maybe I’m looking at the wrong unit?

ASR (silencer shop): ✅

Torrent Suppressors Hideout: ✅
 
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Rugged's Dual taper lock system and the RUM

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Griffin DUAL-LOK or Gate-LOK hub
Dead Air Keymo
AAC 51T STAMP (no taper)
SilencerCo ASR
Rugged RUM
Aero Precision Mantle (not available yet)
SDTA Surefire Hub
ECCO Machine Surefire conversion service (you provide a Warden or Surefire Trainer)
D.Wilson Surefire conversion service
Griffin DUAL-LOK: ✅

Griffin Gate-LOK: ✅

Dead Air Keymo: ✅

AAC 51T STAMP: ✅ but looks a little flakey? Is it?

SilencerCo ASR (see above)
Rugged RUM (see above)
Aero Precision Mantle (not available yet)

SDTA Surefire Hub: ✅ coool!

ECCO Machine Surefire conversion service (you provide a Warden or Surefire Trainer): ✅ also cool!

D.Wilson Surefire conversion service: ✅ I think this is the correct link?
 
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Whoops! Forgot to list one (griffin gate lok) added it to above post.

Well gents, usually I’m pretty good at the google-fu but you guys really helped me out.

Any opinions of which is best?
 
Griffin DUAL-LOK: ✅

Dead Air Keymo: ✅

AAC 51T STAMP: ✅ but looks a little flakey? Is it?

SilencerCo ASR (see above)
Rugged RUM (see above)
Aero Precision Mantle (not available yet)

SDTA Surefire Hub: ✅ coool!

ECCO Machine Surefire conversion service (you provide a Warden or Surefire Trainer): ✅ also cool!

D.Wilson Surefire conversion service: ✅ I think this is the correct link?
Correct link for the D.Wilson service


AAC 51T is I believe the oldest design on the list. It had eventual retention failures from normal wear and tear of the teeth as well as from a tiny bit of play. It also shouldn't be forced tightened to the final click. This new one post JJE (Palmetto State Armory Parent company) purchase, no clue, but I would assume same eventual issues. Limited muzzle device selections. A good option if you have dozens of firearms with 51T muzzle devices because you got an AAC M4-2000 because DEVGRU had them on HK416s during the GWOT days and don't want to buy new muzzle devices but want a modern suppressor.

Dead Air Keymo... Production quality issues lately like concentricity issues. It has wear and tear issues like broken ratchets or alignment lugs. There are a lot of aftermarket muzzle devices compatible with it. It's one of the most popular if not the most popular HUB mount so it also has a high number of user error issues regarding tightening and adjustment.

Griffin Dual-LOK - Newest design on the list (less than 1 year old I believe, and not long enough for people to have approved Form 4s). Claims are no wear and tear, lighter than Keymo. Locked to Griffin muzzle devices only but they have a large (if not the largest) selection of muzzle device types. I've also read that the primary retention is the forward taper and threads and that as long as you tighten the suppressor firmly, should you forget to turn the locking collar, it'll stay on via the forward taper. The locking collar has a learning curve, there are two positions, but only one position is the locked position. If you turn the collar the wrong direction, technically it won't be locked but theoretically the can stays on with the taper in front of the threads.

Griffin Gate-lok - supposed to work on milspec A2 flash hiders however, not all A2 flash hiders are milspec. Requires shims instead of a crush washer of course. Has rotational play on the mount (due to design, not sure if intentional) and because of the rotation play, it is supposed to be resistant to carbon locking. Really only a good option if you got a bunch of milspec birdcages and don't want to spend hundreds on mounts for multiple hosts. Edit - I made an error recommending this system in this thread. It slipped my mind that the Gate-LOK system has no taper and only a primary retention system.

Rugged RUM (dual taper system) - You don't really hear too much about this one. Limited selection of muzzle devices. Only thing I can recall which is user error is the suppressor main body loosens, but the rear taper locking collar keeps it secured to the muzzle device. It happens when the suppressor body isn't tightened firmly on the forward taper. It's also indicative of the secondary taper locking collar functioning well as a retention mechanism.

SilencerCo ASR - One of the more older designs on the list. You'd want the Bravo version which is the 1-3/8"- 24 version (aka Hub), if you don't fully twist the locking collar to the locked position, the suppressor will come loose. This a user error thing. Limited selection of muzzle devices.

Surefire - Carbon locking with instructions to unlock and then shoot the suppressor off (your can goes flyin down range). Limited muzzle device selection. Not much needs to be said about this one. Used by the Special Operations community, law enforcement agencies, etc. The muzzle devices can stay out of stock for a long time. I suppose it is the most battle proven hard use mount design.

Out of all them, I'd choose the Griffin DUAL-LOK primarily due to weight and muzzle device selection. Dead Air Keymo would normally be my first suggestion but the latest in production issues and prolonged customer service resolution to customer issues give me pause.
 
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Whoa! Now that is what I’ve been looking for! Succinct overview/reviews!

That should be a damn sticky! I have been casually glancing at this subject on and off for a couple years and have always walked away more confused than when I started.

Bravo!
👏
 
@Evintos have you have any experience with the TBAC SR locking collar interface?

I know it isn’t a HUB thing, but I am considering a TBAC can and if SR a particularly good design I could be swayed away from HUB in this instance.

FWIW, all my cans (5-ish) are direct thread, and this is for higher volume applications, like prairie dog shooting. I use Modtac suppressor shields (universal) on CF bolt guns and the shields are a bit of a pain to take off to check suppressor tightness. Awesome in other ways, however.
 
No personal experience but what I remember about the SR -

TBAC SR - Limited selection of muzzle devices, I think only one or two and they're brakes so if you're looking for a flash hider or a hybrid flash/compensator device, you're out of luck. Design wise it's very simple though. Conceptually the TBAC SR and Griffin DUAL-LOK is very similar and the TBAC SR predates the DUAL-LOK.

Basic design for both is - forward taper with coarse threads that creates the primary lock with a locking collar that prevents suppressor main body from rotating loose. Where they differ is the locking collar mechanism.

TBAC SR uses a pawl/lock piece system that sits between the muzzle device teeth and a cam path system that facilitates rotating that piece into place. By design the system can't fit between teeth, it's one side or another. Benefits of the TBAC SR is no wave spring and no "false lock" unlike the Griffin DUAL-LOK. There is only one direction to turn for the TBAC SR for the collar to lock.

As far as I know, there is virtually 0 concern for wear and tear with the TBAC SR system. I've never heard about SR locking mechanism failures. I suppose like a super weird hypothetical scenario, the cam path/slot wears out?

The only two downsides that I can think of is with the cam path/slot system that when you rotate the collar into the lock position, visually it looks as though the system is crooked/off axis and you may be tricked into believing that the suppressor body isn't threaded on properly and non-concentric, but it's fine, it's the collar that is slightly tilted (when locked) by design. The 2nd downside I can think of is that the locking collar is fat. I think it's like 1.8" in diameter. If you're using it on an AR15, that may or may not be an issue for you.

Tagging @Zak Smith so he can correct any mistakes I've made about their system and I suppose ask if there are any plans to expand the SR muzzle device line.
 
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Is there a HUB endcap that has a secondary retention device built into it? Similar to, oh, Surefire’s or TBAC’s SR? One with a locking collar?

I don’t necessarily mean exactly like Surefire’s or TBAC’s, but something like that? Taper + collar?

The reason I’m asking is I’m thinking of getting a suppressor just for my AR15, and it’s sort of nice to not worry about the can walking off during shooting strings.

Don’t worry too much if this device is necessary. It’s not. After all, this is pretty much a first-world problem lol.
I'm running a Dead Air KeyMo on my OCL Polonium 5.56 can that the stamp came back today. My SOT is a range, so I get to use them as much as I want while waiting. Never once had any issues with the KeyMo coming loose or having any issues. I can highly recommend this can, too.

If you wanted to shave weight, you could always just go with the Dead Air XENO mount. It's not really a QD system, but it's a large coarse-thread tapered system designed with LH threads, so it won't spin loose and walk-off while shooting. Because LH threads tighten to the right, it will keep the can tight on the end while shooting, because your rifle spins the bullets to the right. So the RPM force of the spinning bullet are swirling the gasses inside the bore, and when they hit your baffles at certain direction, it starts to loosen the threads on the can. But if your threads tighten the same direction your bullet is rotating, then you won't have this issue...This is why so many folks are starting to use LH threads now, because more all standard barrels are rifled to spin to the right.

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I'm running a Dead Air KeyMo on my OCL Polonium 5.56 can that the stamp came back today. My SOT is a range, so I get to use them as much as I want while waiting. Never once had any issues with the KeyMo coming loose or having any issues. I can highly recommend this can, too.

If you wanted to shave weight, you could always just go with the Dead Air XENO mount. It's not really a QD system, but it's a large coarse-thread tapered system designed with LH threads, so it won't spin loose and walk-off while shooting. Because LH threads tighten to the right, it will keep the can tight on the end while shooting, because your rifle spins the bullets to the right. So the RPM force of the spinning bullet are swirling the gasses inside the bore, and when they hit your baffles at certain direction, it starts to loosen the threads on the can. But if your threads tighten the same direction your bullet is rotating, then you won't have this issue...This is why so many folks are starting to use LH threads now, because more all standard barrels are rifled to spin to the right.
Thanks for that, man! One of the multitude of suppressor attachment facts I have learned and forgotten.
 
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Well, scratch that SDTA Surefire Hub off the list, apparently. No longer listed on their site.
I use the SF SOCOM mounting system on my AAC 762SDN6. I had ECCO cut my can to take the bravo pattern threads and sent in a Surefire warden to be converted.

ECCO also does just the conversion if you send them a Warden. Not sure if they now offer the entire thing already modified.

Side note:
I love the SF mounting system. It’s absolutely repeatable on all of my rifles, but I’d definitely change to TBAC if they offered the HUB SR.

Mostly because I plan on getting a TBAC can eventually and also because I like that SR locking collar.
 
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