I love this guy

[Khlit]

You can push the limits of equipment no matter what it is but that doesn't make it an effective tool for the task at hand. in the same vein you can drive a nail with the end of a screwdriver. I routinely shoot 600yards with a red dot and no magnifier with my 5.56 Ar's on ISPSC steel, but I can do that same thing with a mk12 100x more consistently. Hell, I've even hit a bird with a dasiy bb gun and iron sights at 300 yards once it was pure luck and I doubt I could repeat it if I tried, but If I made a video of that and posted it I guarantee you someone on youtube would see it and post how a dasiy is just as good as anschutz. Moral of the story, yes you can use off the shelf hunting rifles these days to do impressive stuff but please don't fall in to the trap of just as good mentality.
Here's a video one a guy doing ELR stuff with a 22.

 

[orkan]

Hi

Master it was only seven shots.
So he has talent but no technique?

Regards.

Not for me to decide or pass judgement. He looked awfully pleased with himself. I personally wouldn't be happy with that performance behind the rifle, regardless of what happened down range. You asked what I thought, and I told you. If you want to further discuss it with me, then I'd like to see your qualifications please. Who are you? What does your firing schedule/shooting career look like? Precision rifle work you've done? Articles you've written? Pictures of some of your barrel logs? Something? Anything?

You really want to understand what people are talking about here? Perform that exact same test again. Then again. I'd pay some good money to see that guy impact that jug within 7 shots on his second attempt with that same kit. My experience says if he attempted that 10 more times, he wouldn't hit that jug more than once or twice in those 70 shots, if at all. I'd venture he would have even less of a chance if he was required to work on his own, and didn't have a spotter calling corrections for him.

You're getting pretty belligerent with people here... and you're doing so without giving any evidence that you're anything but a brand new rookie to this discipline. That's going to be a tough row to hoe.

 

[Sheldon N]

The milk jug challenge is a cool event that has a lot of appeal to the average shooter because it's immediately understandable how hard it is to hit a milk jug at any given distance, and it's probably something most shooters have done (if only at 50 or 100 yards).

The event also has come credibility - it's done at a range as an official challenge, with spotters and videographers, independent witnesses, and each shooter only gets 10 shots to successfully complete the challenge. They have a website, you can register for the event, it's been running for quite a few years now.

The thing to keep in mind is that only the successful attempts get posted to Youtube. What you don't see are all the shooters who tried and failed to hit it in the required 10 shots.

As to the shooter who did it with a 308, I'll say that he had a gun that was shooting quite well considering the distance. It held a respectable group size including the misses. It looks like he was using handloads and he had likely spent some prior time at the range learning his 1 mile dope because he was immediately on target with his first shot. Conditions were favorable without much wind, otherwise it would have been much less likely that he would connect. He didn't look to me like an extremely experienced shooter (Orkan's criticisms are fair points) but he did manage well enough, better than a lot of average joes at a gun range.

OP, don't let gear race worry you. The only thing holding that shooter back is the fact that a 168 AMAX at 2840fps is not an ideal ELR projectile. Inside of 1000 yards that would be very capable. Buy what you can afford, get proficient with it. If you get good and know your platform well it would be no problem to humble shooters with more expensive toys.

 

[jakelly]

Few years ago my buddy bought a S&W M&P 10 and some cheap Vortex. He wanted to go shoot long range so we loaded up, grabbed 100 rounds of this at Walmart on the way out of town, and away we went.

He really wanted to shoot 1000 yds as most new guys do and the range went to a mile, so there was plenty of real estate. He asked me what I thought and I told him it was going to work fine for several hundred yards but I wasn’t sure how it would do out at 1000.

Well, apparently that power-shok bullet handles the transonic range unbelievably well, because after we had gathered a bit of info, he was smacking steel with ease out to and beyond his goal. We ran out of elevation and daylight at 1100-1150 IIRC. I will say that accuracy was petering out very quickly. He’s hooked now, just rebarreled that M&P 10 (shot out), and has a USO 3.2-17 riding on it.

 

[devildog93]

You can take a Yugo and a Ferrari to a race track, and both will get you around the track. If you are serious about racing and have the money, you would obviously pick the Ferrari over the Yugo.

If the Yugo is the only car in your budget, it will get you around that race track. Is it the most efficient? Is it the fastest? Is it the most comfortable? Does it have the best or most features? Is it going to have the best handling? Or even mediocre handling for that matter?

I guess I would take a Yugo if it was all I could have, but I would much rather have a Ferrari. Same thing applies in precision rifles, or any aspect of life really.

Are you actually saying the difference in say a Savage 110 and a $3000 custom are like a Yugo and a Ferrari? I don't think the parallel is there my friend. There just isn't that huge jump in performance on a rifle. You aren't going from 100hp to 600 hp with a 2500 dollar rifle jump.

 

[kthomas]

Are you actually saying the difference in say a Savage 110 and a $3000 custom are like a Yugo and a Ferrari? I don't think the parallel is there my friend. There just isn't that huge jump in performance on a rifle. You aren't going from 100hp to 600 hp with a 2500 dollar rifle jump.

Its an exaggerated analogy, but there's certainly parallels. Maybe a Ford Focus versus a Ford GT is more applicable?

But yes, I think the performance, quality, functionality, and QA/QC & customer service of a custom rifle is way ahead of a Savage. I don't know why we are limiting the dollar amount to $3,000 for the sake of this discussion, but there's a lot of quantifiable differences between my TacOps or my TS Customs Mausingfield/JAE build and an off the rack Savage.

Whether or not someone else can appreciate the differences or justify the price is up to the individual. Custom rifles aren't for everyone, and I totally understand and respect that. But that doesn't mean that a Savage has the same performance or quality as a custom rifle.

 

[Northernjets]

Are you actually saying the difference in say a Savage 110 and a $3000 custom are like a Yugo and a Ferrari? I don't think the parallel is there my friend. There just isn't that huge jump in performance on a rifle. You aren't going from 100hp to 600 hp with a 2500 dollar rifle jump.

Maybe not necessarily performance on paper, but there is a massive difference in the fit and finish of a custom, or even a higher end factory rifle, vs a Savage. The bolt raceway in my buddy's new Savage 110 looks and feels like a cheese grater. It came with crossthreaded base screws out of the box. My old Savage 10 had off centered base holes. Extractor issues on my mk II and ejector issues on the 10 were par for the course. Did they still group perfectly fine? Definitely, especially if it was for someone that shoots a box or two every couple months. I don't think you or OP will find anyone arguing that fact on here. Having said that, there is definitely a reason why folks drop custom money on rifles that get worked hard though, and it isn't to flex on people with financial priorities in other places.

 

[Jackomason]

Most of this is in gest, as the guy never asked me for my evaluation...

We need to start a "Roast Me" thread. I need this in my life!

 

[Tokay444]

If you can’t afford a custom rifle, don’t buy one.
If you can afford a custom rifle but don’t want one, don’t buy one.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Great effort to get the target, and had fun doing it.
That's a win,win situation.
I just like watching blokes with 10k rigs get owned by guys with "cheap production" rifles at the range.
It's still the nut behind the butt that gets the results.
There was a Porsche Club in Rockingham, that used to share the track with the MX5 Club.
In the end, the Porsche Club chucked the shits, because the MX5 loonies were hurtling around the track better than them.
Some people just don't have a sense of humour.

 

[FALex]

Don't the ELR guys have to connect on their targets within 3 rounds for them to count in most of their matches, or am I just pulling that shit out of the ether? It's kind of beside the point, but it was more for my edification...

I always take these long distance shooting videos with a grain of salt...he could've flung 30 rounds out there before hitting the power button on the camera. That being said, if we accept the fact that the video is true-to-form, I'd contend that connecting on a milk jug is still a very difficult shot. I would further contend the fact that he got it in 7 was pretty damn good. A milk jug is a tiny fucking target at one mile...maybe 6 inches wide and 10 inches tall?

I've shot better rifles, with chamberings that leave the .308's ballistics in the dirt, at a mile, and at larger targets. Granted, I haven't done it a whole helluva lot, but I know the few times I've done it, I know optics had a much more significant meaning. The ability to simply A) spot the target itself and B) spot your POI at a mile were significant factors in determining hit probability.

I know the shooter didn't have the best fundamentals, but with that projectile going subsonic after 8-900 yards, any minor change in wind fucks everything up. I'll be completely honest, I've been doing this for over a decade...shoot matches fairly regularly, and have surprised the fuck out of myself with some shots I have made in these last several years. However, if I am being 100% honest, I don't know if I could have done it any better using that same gear.

 

[SRPowah]

However, if I am being 100% honest, I don't know if I could have done it any better using that same gear.

That is the point we are trying to make. You get to a point where statistical probability makes it more luck than skill. Skill gets it in the ballpark (which isnt THAT hard with known dope and good conditions), but luck to hit that 1/2 moa target. OP is acting like that 1/2 moa hit within 7 shots can be done all day every day with the same exact gear. Even the ELR guys are shooting at a target over 1moa with something much more balletically capable than the average 308win.

 

[FALex]

OP is acting like that 1/2 moa hit within 7 shots can be done all day every day with the same exact gear.

Interesting perspective. I did not read into his post the manner in which you did. I believe the setup in the video was a capable setup. Bergara and SWFA make solid products. Obviously, I don't know if dude knows how to load ammo, but for the sake of argument, let's assume he does...

From the OP, I read it as a simple observation: that the factory rifle and fixed power SWFA could compete in the milk jug challenge. Nothing more, nothing less.

OP - if you believe that result is repeatable, you're out of your fucking mind. HAHAHAHA!!! I don't think anyone could repeat that result "all day, everyday," even if they were employing the best of everything.

 

[Rocketmandb]

OP: You can get 80% of the way there with a solid custom rifle, then you pay to get some degree of the last 20%. That last 20% is where the separation happens. Better barrels, better triggers, better stocks, etc. make a difference. I used to sling lead out quite a distance with my 300 WM Savage and a medium quality scope. When the 300 PRC came out, I rechambered with a Bartlein barrel, put a better trigger into it, and guess what happened...

Everything tightened up.

Then I decided to get a custom rifle made in that caliber (same barrel config, better trigger, better stock, better action, better glass), and guess what happened...

Everything tightened up.

Can you get good results with factory rifles? Sure. I got really good results with my Savage. Did I get great results? No.

 

[steve123]

Lobbing mortar fire and correcting until a hit does not take any skill, nor does it ask anything of the equipment. Nothing wrong with a cheap, modern rifle, if chambered and twisted correctly, but a mile for 308 is way past the supersonic zone, and will not be repeatable enough to be usable for anything but the same - keep lobbing them in until one hits, and rejoice as if you had something to do with it. Moronic.

Yep, send the lead until it's hit. In his case that could be the first shot or many shots later, or it might never be hit. As my friend used to say "no guts no glory". He tried is the thing.

But the same thing can be said about a guy shooting his 375CT, only thing is he's likely to hit it sooner by standing much more of a chance. BC, velocity, etc.

I did see Cory from Gunsite hit close to center of a steel at a mile on the CB shot with his VERY expensive rifle in 338L with expensive everything else, and he does this for a living, so.....

 

[steve123]

When I was a kid I killed a duck 50ft out in a lake one time with my slingshot and a marble. Hit it in the side of it's head.

I upped you buy doing the same thing to a flying Swallow, Edit- I hit it in the chest though, only 30Y estimated.
It took all afternoon though, who knows how many tries lol.

 

[jbuck88]

I enjoy watching that channel on YouTube. I must be retarded because it brings me joy. There is a segment on here who will only shoot known targets and I'm sure spend minutes or hours computing every shot. Then talk shit for anyone trying to outshoot their gear or skills.

I have AI's down to a Ruger predator. They all serve a purpose and all give me joy to shoot. If I get bored or want better I will upgrade where I want. I get just as much fun out of throwing lead at unknown distance, "guessing" range and wind, then seeing how close I can get. Some times I get lucky and get a first round impact. Sometimes I off. It's always fun as long as I'm learning.

I am only probably a .5moa shooter consistently. I don't get enough consistent range time to stay better. I've had plenty of cheaper rifles that shot around my .5moa goal. So I know everything after that is me.

I sold my GAP as it wasn't for me. I just couldn't appreciate the aditional expense when I had a R700 5r that shot just as good. My GAP didn't pass the bounce test when I got it and almost shot my truck in a hunting accident. The 2 tone Cerakote looked like it was taped off by my 7year old. And if you didn't load the magazine just perfect it struggled to feed.

My point is. Just because your paying more for, doesn't mean your getting more.

 

[sheepdog697]

jUsT aS gOoD

 

[devildog93]

jUsT aS gOoD

There is something to be said about that. The USMC pretty much lives by that code for equipment. I guess the theory is that training overcomes equipment limitations to a certain extent. I always thought it was more like they figured why spend more when we can get it done with this, kind of like the old Cubs ownership. We all know guys on the team who had to have the latest/greatest/most expensive gear. That didn't always equate to performance.

 

["Kyltro"]

Not for me to decide or pass judgement. He looked awfully pleased with himself. I personally wouldn't be happy with that performance behind the rifle, regardless of what happened down range. You asked what I thought, and I told you. If you want to further discuss it with me, then I'd like to see your qualifications please. Who are you? What does your firing schedule/shooting career look like? Precision rifle work you've done? Articles you've written? Pictures of some of your barrel logs? Something? Anything?

You really want to understand what people are talking about here? Perform that exact same test again. Then again. I'd pay some good money to see that guy impact that jug within 7 shots on his second attempt with that same kit. My experience says if he attempted that 10 more times, he wouldn't hit that jug more than once or twice in those 70 shots, if at all. I'd venture he would have even less of a chance if he was required to work on his own, and didn't have a spotter calling corrections for him.

You're getting pretty belligerent with people here... and you're doing so without giving any evidence that you're anything but a brand new rookie to this discipline. That's going to be a tough row to hoe.

What do you sell?

 

["Kyltro"]

.