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Broad generalizations like that make you sound incredibly ignorant. Unless that is your personal feelings after dealing individually with all 1.4 billion people that live there.Steal enough technology and this will happen. Fuck China. They are thieves and a plague on the planet.
Well their government sanctions the actions of every thing over there. The statement refers to their government and their corruption not necessarily of the citizens themselves.Broad generalizations like that make you sound incredibly ignorant. Unless that is your personal feelings after dealing individually with all 1.4 billion people that live there.
Perhaps, but when governments around the world not only do absolutely nothing about it, but actually encourage it under "environmental protection" policies, what do you think you are going to do?Steal enough technology and this will happen. Fuck China. They are thieves and a plague on the planet.
A country with a policy of steeling tech and IP from anywhere they can. Yes, all 1.4 billion of them, the government that represents them, and the companies they work for. If you don't see that then there is indeed some indiscernible ignorance on this thread.Broad generalizations like that make you sound incredibly ignorant. Unless that is your personal feelings after dealing individually with all 1.4 billion people that live there.
Country would be nothing without stolen US technology. Business and militarily.A country with a policy of steeling tech and IP from anywhere they can. Yes, all 1.4 billion of them, the government that represents them, and the companies they work for. If you don't see that then there is indeed some indiscernible ignorance on this thread.
I have a leofoto 364c as well.
It seems as stable as RRS, which I’ve had a lot of time on as well.
But it’s not as light as am RRS. I had to make a conscious decision. Pay more for less weight with the limited amount of utility I need it for, or get the leofoto for now and spend the money elsewhere.
I chose to buy the leofoto.
As @diverdon mentioned, you get all the checkboxes with an RRS. For less money you get less checkboxes.
I chose to buy two AI’s, two zcomps, reloading components, and leofoto. With the money I saved vs the RRS, I paid for a two day class, and two clinics at RO.
So, it’s all relative. And I’ll probably buy an RRS at some point. But it’s at the bottom of the list for now.
By the way, I have seen at least two shooters use The Leophoto tripod without ahead of any kind at matches to save weight.
If I get flamed for your opnion I'll consider it a complement.Ha— everyone keeps calling me @diverdon but I am @Diver160651 ~ make sure you don’t flame him for my opinions
That is a fair and good information.. wish more people would add and acknowledge what they give up. In the case of the RRS, it is money and everyone seems to focus on that aspect only.
By the way, I have seen at least two shooters use The Leophoto tripod without ahead of any kind at matches to save weight.
I have a leofoto 364c as well.
It seems as stable as RRS, which I’ve had a lot of time on as well.
But it’s not as light as am RRS. I had to make a conscious decision. Pay more for less weight with the limited amount of utility I need it for, or get the leofoto for now and spend the money elsewhere.
I chose to buy the leofoto.
As @diverdon mentioned, you get all the checkboxes with an RRS. For less money you get less checkboxes.
I chose to buy two AI’s, two zcomps, reloading components, and leofoto. With the money I saved vs the RRS, I paid for a two day class, and two clinics at RO.
So, it’s all relative. And I’ll probably buy an RRS at some point. But it’s at the bottom of the list for now.
When RRS was in California, how many considered that the high taxes paid on RRS products supported the the California politicians who all lead the charge to take away your second amendment? I applaud RRS for moving, but has anyone considered that? Any California residents here? How are those gun laws working out for you? Remember, California overwhelmingly voted for Regan in 1984, and look where they are now.
Bang
Post probably needs to go to bear pit. No real need for it here.
I have a leofoto 364c as well.
It seems as stable as RRS, which I’ve had a lot of time on as well.
But it’s not as light as am RRS. I had to make a conscious decision. Pay more for less weight with the limited amount of utility I need it for, or get the leofoto for now and spend the money elsewhere.
I chose to buy the leofoto.
As @diverdon mentioned, you get all the checkboxes with an RRS. For less money you get less checkboxes.
I chose to buy two AI’s, two zcomps, reloading components, and leofoto. With the money I saved vs the RRS, I paid for a two day class, and two clinics at RO.
So, it’s all relative. And I’ll probably buy an RRS at some point. But it’s at the bottom of the list for now.
Well when your margins are as high as RRS, you can afford to give more stuff away.All I am going to say is this: I've seen plenty of gear from RRS on prize tables at PRS matches. Shit, the only reason I own a RRS tripod is because I won one.
The only time I have seen a Leofoto on a prize table was when a dealer put it up there - not the manufacturer.
All I am going to say is this: I've seen plenty of gear from RRS on prize tables at PRS matches. Shit, the only reason I own a RRS tripod is because I won one.
The only time I have seen a Leofoto on a prize table was when a dealer put it up there - not the manufacturer.
You cannot say that your Leofoto is as good as a RRS. You will offend some of the snowflakes here.
Bang
OK here you go... I'll take the Feisol 3372 over the almost 2Xs heaver Leofoto any day... for hunting or match use. Yes, I have an TV-33 and Feisol 3372, had a couple Getzo series 5, Manfroto, Miller and used the Leofoto amongst many others.
I am not offended by your stupid remarks.. It only shows what you know, nobody is butt hurt because you don't own a RRS -- Hell I can careless if you use a 50lbs benchrest - just don't get on your high horse and tell me it works just as good off a tank trap and only Snow Flakes think it isn't the best.
All I am going to say is this: I've seen plenty of gear from RRS on prize tables at PRS matches. Shit, the only reason I own a RRS tripod is because I won one.
The only time I have seen a Leofoto on a prize table was when a dealer put it up there - not the manufacturer.
Well when your margins are as high as RRS, you can afford to give more stuff away.
Not sure where you are going with this - So the off shore company doesn't know or hasn't invested in PRS/NRL, a US company invest in man power to develop a bunch of shooting aids that changed the shooting community. That doesn't mean that the US company has overly aggressive margins.. But certainly the cost of R&D and supporting the shooting community comes from somewhere. I do business with China the'll copy your DNA and kill your child if you let them..
How do you know what their margins are? Cost of doing business, especially manufacturing, is significantly higher in the US than it is in China. Labor costs are higher, material costs for US-sourced materials are higher, overhead costs (land/facility, power, taxes, lawyers, etc) are higher, and on and on. Just because the US made product is more expensive doesn't mean their margins are automatically higher. Even if they are somewhat higher, that margin is going to be (at least in part) funneled back into R&D, whereas many products coming out of China are direct (and cheaper) copies of other products. Look at the cost of a POS GreenBlob vs a real Atlas as a perfect example.
See my comment above on margins.
I get the pricing issue, but if someone's in the market, it's worth considering that RRS is the only tripod company that's gone out of their way to support the shooting sports. They have not only donated rather significantly to prize tables, but also developed products around this community and how we implement tripods. If someone decides they still can't justify the cost of a RRS, I get it - hell, I couldn't justify it either, since I rarely use a tripod for anything other than holding up my spotter or binos. It doesn't change the fact, at least in my eyes, it's at least worth TRYING to support the company that's actively supporting the community.
Got it ya, Mike is on here too.
We are saying the same thing. The guy complains about the margin tossed me for a loop.
If it wasn’t for RRS’ $$ investment in R&D to bring innovation, he’d still be using a Manfrotto Center Column 555, hand grip with a funky as attachment - spending 4 months and about the cost of a RRS in ammo learning to use his sling to shoot almost as well as we can today because of RRS; or not using a tripod at all.
Been there, done that, and it sucked. The RRS is leaps and bounds better than my old Manfrotto, but I still don't shoot from a tripod very often.
Yes, the Gamechanger and 6mm kinda did a number on tripod use in matches..
But I still take mine to matches.. I don’t practice much anymore using one because the RRS has helped there too.. But I do hunt with it.
How do you know what their margins are? Cost of doing business, especially manufacturing, is significantly higher in the US than it is in China.
Of course I don’t know what their exact margins are but I can guarentee you that their tripod doesn’t cost anywhere close to $1000 to manufacture. I’m sure they make a top notch product. Is it best in the business? Maybe, I don’t know. But I do know that RRS is proud of their work and that’s ok.
Am I missing something? There is a ton of talk about China and copies while also discussing the Leofoto tripod. Best I can tell, it is a Japanese made product.
Much discussion on this forum about how good typical high end scopes are when made in Japan, versus other countries. Not sure if that translates to tripods.
Also, fwiw, my poor ass does not own a decent tripod and would be happy to take either off of the prize table. I’ve only ever shot off of the Leofoto, and that only once, so I have no opinion on which is better. I don’t doubt that the RRS really is as good as people say. It seems to me that everything coming from them aimed at precision rifle market is well engineered and manufactured.
Yup! You are right. I’m apparently confused. I looked them up the other day when this thread started and obviously got it wrong.Their corporate website is a Chinese domain. I'm almost positive they're made in China, not Japan.
Yup! You are right. I’m apparently confused. I looked them up the other day when this thread started and obviously got it wrong.
Carry on. ?
Ok I'll bite. I can guarantee based on my experience as an aerospace engineer who has experience with the manufacture of both aluminum alloys as well as varying composites. Turns out carbon composites are something that's been used in the aerospace industry for a couple of minutes now, LONG before it became popular in the shooting or camera tripod world. Turns out a lot of shit lately is being used from the aerospace industry.Guaranteed based on what? Your experience in carbon fiber manufacturing or the high end tripod industry in the United States?
Look dude, you can have a hard on for 'Merica, that's ok. But these statements show you have no fucking clue what your talking about.The reason cars made in the USA ain't what they used to be is they've had to slash costs everywhere possible to be competitive with "buy it for half the price and replace if it breaks" marketing.
If I'm buying a phone that's going to be replaced in two years or less I'll buy it from an Asian company, anything I would prefer to last... I'll stick with made in USA.
Ok I'll bite. I can guarantee based on my experience as an aerospace engineer who has experience with the manufacture of both aluminum alloys as well as varying composites. Turns out carbon composites are something that's been used in the aerospace industry for a couple of minutes now, LONG before it became popular in the shooting or camera tripod world. Turns out a lot of shit lately is being used from the aerospace industry.
I've been to plants that have autoclaves big enough to fit trucks in. I'm very familiar with how composites are made and how much they cost to produce. I have been working the last 10 years with products that include not only just carbon composite, but also spectra and kevlar composites. I'm familiar with tooling costs for molds and the scale necessary to make it worth the investment. It's what I do for a living.
Okay now it’s your turn in the barrel. If American cars are so unreliable, how come it used to be that a car that had 100,000 miles on it was worn out and you had to change spark plugs every 30,000-50,000 miles? Now every car, no matter where it is made can easily rack up 200,000 miles with nothing more than regular maintenance and will run reliably for 100,000-125,000 miles on the first set of spark plugs.Look dude, you can have a hard on for 'Merica, that's ok. But these statements show you have no fucking clue what your talking about.
Please show me just ONE U.S. cell phone manufacturer where things are designed, manufactured, and assembled in the U.S. They don't make cell phone components in this country and they haven't for some time. Buying shit from Asia and assembling it in California doesn't make it "made in the U.S.A". You are just lying to yourself.
And American cars aren't what they used to be because the engineering got lazy, and manufacturing and reliability went to shit. The american automakers were overrun by unions and the companies became more about benefits and salary and much less about making cars. Europe and Asia didn't have the same issues and it showed in the quality of their products. Americans chose to buy quality over the shit Detroit was pumping out.