Gunsmithing I'm buying a lathe....prepare for lots of stupid questions....let's get started!

[jasonk]

Alright, I have too much time on my hands...well not really, but I'm a fool so here we go. I'm buying a lathe, plan to read books, rely on friends that have lathes, watch videos, etc and teach myself. Eventually I'll chamber barrels and such, but I'll make plenty of random chips first. So I've got some questions and could use some advice.

I'm getting this lathe, no need to comment, my mind is made up.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/14-X-40-Gunsmith-s-Gearhead-Lathe/G0709

Going to add a DRO right off the bat, seems like money well spent.

So what tooling do I need to get in addition to the above lathe? Assuming that I want to chamber barrels, true actions, etc. And where is the best place to find inexpensive, but decent tooling? I'm not using the lathe all day every day, just tinkering on weekends and stuff. I understand buying quality, I'm all for that, but there's a value balance to be had as well.

What measurement tools do I need? I have calipers. Obviously an indicator or two, what resolution on the indicators? .001 .0005 .0001 ?? Long tip version and a regular one?

Any help is appreciated, thanks.

Jason

 

[Killswitch Engage]

extra tool holders for the qctp
i like stainless indexable tooling from arthur warner.
external/internal threading tool. full profile is my suggestion.
standard set of indexable holders
i like a nice profile tool with 35deg insert
parting tool
test indicators in .0005 and .0001. best you can afford is what you should buy
standard .001 indiactors for roughing.
mic set
depth mics
feeler guages
layout die
straight edge, protractor
thread wire set
fish tail gauge
debur tool
various grit emery paper
cutting oil(vipers venom is great)
jewlers loupe
flositng reamer holder of your choice



it will be and has been beat to death on indicating and chambering so you will have to decide what works for you and provides the best results and return. either way i still suggest a full set of bushings and rod for each caliber you're gonna do.

make yourself an outboard spider, truing fixture and any other doodads as that is great practice and familiarization.

chamber flush is not necessary but damn nice to have down the road.

this is what i can think of off the top of my head. tons more to buy though.

 

[STR]

Before you make any chips, save your self a lot of grief, and rent this series.

https://smartflix.com/store/video/570/Professional-Machine-Shop-Course-Lathe

 

[STR]

All the rifle building info you can just get here on Snipers Hide. Pleanty of guys here that know their stuff as you are very aware of already. Best of luck in your fun adventure.

 

[jonesturf]

Before you make any chips, save your self a lot of grief, and rent this series.

https://smartflix.com/store/video/570/Professional-Machine-Shop-Course-Lathe

+1

That course really spells out the basics as well as more advanced stuff. Real easy to follow and go to back to for reference. Mr. Holland is a great teacher.

Speaking of great videos STR himself has a whole set of videos related to Gunsmithing and chambering. I think they are still stickied in the Gunsmithing forum when you get to that point.

When I was tooling up I tried to watch eBay for quality tooling and indicators. I would rather buy used quality than import junk on something I only plan on buying one of. Some of the less important stuff its hard to beat import pricing. As you move along you'll figure out what you can cut corners on.

Best of luck to you. Just remember to be safe and take your time.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ajwcotton]

Get more tool holders than you think you will need, changing tools sucks.

 

[Rthur]

I agree AJW, a dozen would be a good start.

 

[STR]

Tool holders are very nice to have a lot of, but if he's not in a big hurry, and depending on budget, I would concentrate on measuring tools and specialty cutters first. Buy the extra tool holders second is all I'm saying. Also, EBay as already mentioned is a great place to get quality used tools. That's where I got all of mine.

 

[Victor N TN]

Look for some good tooling. As in carbide inserts and holders. Get at least 2, 1" flat back .001" indicators and magnetic bases. One for the long axis and one for the cross slide. Another wouldn't hurt.

You'll need a .0001" dial test indicator on a magnetic stand base. Sooner or later you'll want to check the tail stock.

Get QUALITY drill indexes in fraction, letter and wire size drills. You never know what size hole you'll need to use until you need it. Get several different sizes of center drills.

Get a bench grinder and learn how to sharpen drills.. Drill "bits". Do NOT put soluable oil in the dip cup / tray for the grinder. Get an angle gauge / guide for grinding them.

Get a copy of "Machinery's Handbook" AND the math formula book that sells with it.

Find an oil distributor that sells the way lube and a couple of different cutting oils / fluids. Also get a coolant "Misting Unit" and fluids. You don't always want to "Flood" coolant.

Buy 3 or 4 sets of safety glasses. Use the first until it gets scratched. Then rotate it off for visitors and get a new pair.

ALWAYS remove the chuck wrench. Never leave it in the chuck. Hold it in your hand to tighten / loosen the chuck then lay it down.

NEVER wear a long sleeved or loose fitting shirt, watch or ring

Get a good magnifying glass and an eye loupe. Make sure there is a light mounted over the work area, front of the ways / headstock.

Everything I've mentioned as far as material, can be bought from MSC Supplies. Do a search. You CAN order online or by phone.

Get all the aluminum scrap you can afford. Then start making chips. Learn how to set up all the tooling. Aluminum is a lot more forgiving than any kind of steel.

Study hard and practice everything several times before you try to do it.

Good luck and be careful.
Victor

 

[wnroscoe]

I'm buying a lathe, plan to chamber barrels and such

That damn bug does bight hard.

Put me on speed dial and I'll help any way I can. It's really not that hard. Learn to turn/face to a specific number then thread to fit a gauge/receiver.

Learning to run your new machine will be the learning curve but, it's a short one. Good luck.

 

[300sniper]

.

Learning to run your new machine will be the learning curve but, it's a short one. Good luck.

For some people. But me, I'm still in the learning curve, and hope to always be

 

[MDM]

extra tool holders for the qctp
i like stainless indexable tooling from arthur warner.
external/internal threading tool. full profile is my suggestion.
standard set of indexable holders
i like a nice profile tool with 35deg insert
parting tool
test indicators in .0005 and .0001. best you can afford is what you should buy
standard .001 indiactors for roughing.
mic set
depth mics
feeler guages
layout die
straight edge, protractor
thread wire set
fish tail gauge
debur tool
various grit emery paper
cutting oil(vipers venom is great)
jewlers loupe
flositng reamer holder of your choice



it will be and has been beat to death on indicating and chambering so you will have to decide what works for you and provides the best results and return. either way i still suggest a full set of bushings and rod for each caliber you're gonna do.

make yourself an outboard spider, truing fixture and any other doodads as that is great practice and familiarization.

chamber flush is not necessary but damn nice to have down the road.

this is what i can think of off the top of my head. tons more to buy though.

I will see your thread wire gauges and raise you a can of Anti-seize and a strap wrench. Gunsmiffin!

 

[Papagallos]

Congratulations, Jason.

I've been wanting to buy a lathe for the last couple of years. I keep being a little bitch about it, get scared, and scrap the idea. One day I'll grow a set of cojones and order one.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Lol. Knew I forgot some stuff

 

[wnroscoe]

For some people. But me, I'm still in the learning curve, and hope to always be

Well, I meant for barrel work. The art of the Lathe is a never ending lesson.

 

[Edsel]

Tagged!

Hope to learn a lot from this thread...

 

[87stang]

Tagged as well

 

[woodsy]

Great choice for the lathe. That's the one that I would have bought but it wasn't available when I bought my G4003G. Good idea going with a DRO right off the bat too. Yes, you can do good work without one but going digital makes positioning much easier and quicker. I wouldn't have a lathe or mill without one.

Figure on spending at least as much on tooling as you did for the lathe. The reality is that you'll probably end up spending more than that depending on how deep you fall into this obsession. I can't believe the stuff that I have in the shop and still find jobs that make me grab the Grizzly, ENCO, or MSC catalog for more.

Just planning on "tinkering on weekends"?? Ha! That's what I thought too and I just finished barreling 2 more rifles this week. Enjoy the journey and never stop learning.

 

[ajwcotton]

Oh I forgot, a couple of mighty mag indicator bases

 

[jasonk]

Thanks to all. I'll be calling for sure William, but I'll have to send pictures as I barely know how to describe it all

DVD set for lathe instruction is ordered (thanks STR), 2 different rifle chambering/truing DVDs are bought, Machinery's Handbook bought, Gunsmith Machinist Books bought....I'm knowledge rich. lol

Papa-g I've wanted one for a few years, finally figured that what the hell, one or two less custom rifles and I can buy one. Well one less rifle for the lathe and one less rifle for all the damn accessories. I thought rifles were bad, lathes are worse, I'm going to be every bit of $4k for lathe and $4k for all the other crap!! ugh. lol

Ok, time to go shopping, ebay for sure is a good start. Also been told CDCO Tools and tools4cheap.net are good places to look. Probably ebay and amazon for the indicators and such.

I'm stoked. Have a local gunsmith that's a member here, JBRC, he's got a pile of old barrels for me so I can practice threading, facing, etc etc Big thanks to him.

 

[diverdon]

Get a lot of rags and a few cheep small to medium paint brushes. You can use the brushes while the part is turning if you want to brush on some cutting oil and you can use then to clean the chips when you are done.

Bandages, chips are sharp. Be careful, but you are still going to get cut.

Some buckets or tubs to put the chips in after you clean up. Metal tubs work great. Chips hold a lot of your cutting fluid. If you put a screen and a drain with a catch pan under your chip tub you can recover a lot of it.

It is nice to have a stock rack to hold your bar stock.

When your rags get oily wash them, do not throw them into a pile, they can self ignite.

Your choice of lathe, well it is your choice, but if it were me I would 100X rather have a well cared for Hardinge HLV tool room lathe than the one you mention.

Good light, you need to be able to see your work in process.

A good anti fatigue mat to stand on. You need one with holes in it designed to work around cutting machines. Any chips that fall on the floor might fall through the holes instead of you having to walk on them in the middle of your cut.

A set of good steel toed work shoes you are going to leave in your shop. You are not going to want to wear your machine shop shoes into your house.

Several pairs of safety glasses. When your friends drop by you got to be able to hand them glasses before you turn on the spindle. Treat safety just like you do at the range.

Chip shovel and a chip hook.

Do not wear gloves when the spindle is turning, but have gloves to handle chips that can not be shoveled or hooked into the tub.

A bag of floor dry to clean up spills. Good straw broom and dust pan.

An apron to keep the cutting fluid off your cloths.

 

[Dennis_in_VA]

"The only stupid question is the one you DON'T ask" as told to me while I was on vacation at MCRD PI.

One thing I can reinforce is to never touch/handle swarf with bare hands because it WILL cut you. Use common sense at all times. Think safety. Have fun with your new toy.

 

[serevince]

Great thread. I just signed up at the the local community college. Machinest/CNC program. Evening classes. Should be a fun way to get my feet wet. I'm retiring from the AF soon, so I'm exploring what I want to do when I "grow up", lol.

Sent from my mind via apathy.

 

[dinc]

Jason,

A great place to start is to take some classes. You've already missed this year's at Lassen Gun Smith School's summer classes but they are definitely worth looking into.

http://www.lassencollege.edu/Assets/program-pages/gunsmithing/2014 Gunsmithing Summer Brochure.pdf

You could also check out the other stuff around the country, google Summer NRA Gunsmith.

Oregon Gears has a show in September that highlights a lot of Oregon / Washington home machinist resources. There was a place in Portland that was setting up so you could rent lathe, mill, and other machine time. It was mostly for Makers and tinkerers but they may have had some education stuff also, might be worth looking into. PCC may have some machine shop classes. Chemeteka CC has gone to all CNC classes, no more manual lathe/mill.

Good luck. Keep at it. My SB Heavy 10 is my baby. Dee

 

[missed]

Ah the never ending accuracy quest!!! I love my old monarch. CNC tool room lathe would be my only other option but $200k for the Okuma.....

 

[Hoodlum]

One of the most valuable things a person needs to learn is cutter sharpening/shaping... Carbide inserts are great, but are expensive, and the time will come when they don't make a cutter in the shape you need one... Get some high speed steel square cutter stock and learn to make your own cutters... Tool cutters/grinders are very expensive, but with the right wheels and a little practice, a good bench grinder will do the job just fine... There are countless tutorials out there on this very subject... Oh, and by the way, cheap and decent will not fit in the same sentence when talking about cutters... I buy a bunch on e-bay... There are always people selling large lots of different cutters and bits...
Also, not trying to spend your money, but you will soon find that a good milling machine will compliment your lathe and vise versa... I have a mid 70's Bridgeport and use it just as much as my lathe...
Hoodlum

 

[el gordo2]

Lots of great suggestions so far.

I might add.....

a good set of tweezers
simple first aid kit
compressed air line
decimal/metric equivalent/tap/drill wall chart
patience, lots of it

 

[STR]

One of the most valuable things a person needs to learn is cutter sharpening/shaping... Carbide inserts are great, but are expensive, and the time will come when they don't make a cutter in the shape you need one... Get some high speed steel square cutter stock and learn to make your own cutters... Tool cutters/grinders are very expensive, but with the right wheels and a little practice, a good bench grinder will do the job just fine... There are countless tutorials out there on this very subject... Oh, and by the way, cheap and decent will not fit in the same sentence when talking about cutters... I buy a bunch on e-bay... There are always people selling large lots of different cutters and bits...
Also, not trying to spend your money, but you will soon find that a good milling machine will compliment your lathe and vise versa... I have a mid 70's Bridgeport and use it just as much as my lathe...
Hoodlum

I couldn't agree more on this. Carbide is fantastic in so many ways, but with the money you save using HSS because you can sharpen it your self, you will be able to buy some of the other things you just can't do without. Especially when first starting to tool up for machine work. Once you have all the basics to perform the task of building a complete rifle, you'll be able to start buying more specialized tools. $4 K for tools should get you all that you need without shorting yourself of anything. If you find yourself in the Miami area anytime soon, drop me a PM and I'll show you my little shop which all anyone could want for the purpose of building a precision rifle.

 

[Cigarcop]

Congrats Jason.....your gonna have alot of fun!

 

[jasonk]

Thanks for all the kind words, good advice, PMs with links, etc etc.

The lathe is officially ordered as well as a few indicators, bases, etc. Need to order some extra tool holders and bits tomorrow. Also on the list is a call to Dave Kiff tomorrow, he's a wealth of knowledge but I'll bet it's going to be a $2000 phone call

And I thought the rifles were expensive!

 

[MDM]

The good part is, rifles will no longer be as expensive and you will be able to start building one in the morning and you will be testing loads in it by evening.

 

[jasonk]

The good part is, rifles will no longer be as expensive and you will be able to start building one in the morning and you will be testing loads in it by evening.

Oh the expense is there, just all in tools and tooling, but I'm excited about the fast turnaround time of my new gunsmith

 

[338RUM runner]

I have the same Lathe for 3 years now and I like it better each time I run it. The only thing I had to do was make a new key for the motor pulley, when you get yours PM me and ill walk you thru it. Took the viberation out of it

 

[ballistic1]

Hey J,

So what color will your user name end up being now that you are
headed towards both a Mod and a Vendor? Lol.

I think what you are embarking on is awesome, and I am envious.!

 

[jasonk]

Hey J,

So what color will your user name end up being now that you are
headed towards both a Mod and a Vendor? Lol.

I think what you are embarking on is awesome, and I am envious.!

LOL, I never say never, but I'll be happy to be able to do my own stuff well first. I'm just thankful for lots of good gunsmith friends who are willing to share their knowledge and hold my hand. Stopped by a local shop last night to catch up with a GS friend I hadn't seen in a while, he gave me about 10 old barrels to abuse as I learn the process. Ordered some aluminum too in 1.25" so I can practice on the soft stuff to start.

As for colors...I'm thinking a tiger striped version would be nice

 

[Wintermute]

1st thing I'd recommend is to figure out what you're going to do without all of your extra money as that'll get eaten up by tooling .

After that, there were some good items listed up there. I'd also recommend:

Machinery's Handbook
Even more tool holders
range rods (or your barrel indicating rod of choice)
Indicator holder and base (I like the Noga ones like this: Magnetic Indicator Bases | MSCDirect.com)
I prefer carbide tooling personally...but yes, it is spendy (but it doesn't even come close to my ceramic inserts in cost)
I'd recommend a 6 jaw bison set-tru chuck if you're going to be doing any tight tolerance work that's not in a spider (say making a brake or something)
I highly recommend Nathan's (Straight Shot Gunsmithing) Tru-Bore Alignment system for barrel work
The best damn set of drill bits you can get
A really nice drill chuck for your tailstock (I like the south bend ones made by Grizzly: Grizzly.com for something in a reasonable price range)
The taper attachment for that lathe may be a good idea: Grizzly.com
A thread gauge (in metric and inch)
60 degree fishtail gauge
A good plunge indicator with a decent travel (great for indicating your thread cutting depth against the back of your QCTP)
Lots of metal to practice on
long nose live center: Grizzly.com
I do like using crown savers if I'm cutting down and threading the muzzle of a barrel that won't hold well in the chuck or fit through my spindle (most common use for me is AR15 barrels): Grizzly.com

Well, that's what I have off the top of my head...probably a lot more beyond that.

--Wintermute

 

[alpine44]

Great suggestions in this thread.

There is one more thing I would like to mention for the OP.

If you make chips on practice pieces you will notice that some speed and feed combinations yield a great surface whereas other settings lead to chatter or "torn" surfaces. This depends on the material, of course. Some Nickel/Chrome (stainless) or Vanadium rich barrels are a bear to turn to a nice finish. When you profile these barrels find out what good settings for the final cut are while you still have some rough cuts to do. Then space the rough cuts to have just the final cut left to get to the desired dimension. Do not "grind" yourself to the final dimensions in 1 thou steps.

Novices also tend to be too wimpish on the speed. With carbide cutters you do not need to be afraid to have the chips turn blue (as long as they don't burn you somewhere). Use the speed/feed charts as a guideline and then play with it on practice pieces and see what works best.

Have fun.

 

[leadbullet]

make sure to check everything is tight on your lathe, mine was loose as a goose. Learn to zero center with the 4 jaws chuck, that is always fun to do.
Have fun making chips and coils bud.
cheers.

 

[jasonk]

It's here!! I'm officially a gunsmith....well that's what it says on the lathe!! lol

I guess technically I should get a power cord for it, being able to turn it on would help my gunsmith street cred.....

 

[338RUM runner]

DON'T turn it on, it's a never ending money pit. HEHE. Hope you enjoy it as much as I do mine.